Two control decks playing each other is often seeing whos gonna deck first...

Nope, I can't make it...got business in Maine that day...oh well...the rest of the Hartford area guys will probably make the time to show up...

Ya I went up against this deck Round 1 (Gary Buda w/ Welder TriniMud)...jesus christ...first game he drops workshop and someother stuff and I was like, "alright, mirror match"...Then he smashes face with like 2 juggernauts and trisk and im like, "duurrr, wtf's he playing?". Second game I was so caught off gaurd by this weird-ass deck that I had stupid useless Chalices in my hand that only hurt me whenever I Chaliced...then came the myrs and juggernuats and I cried...

EDIT: I had to read the decklist on this thread to fully understand wtf was in his deck...

You don't need Damping Matrix against 'Tog. You should be able to get them in a quick lock and beat them first game. Post-SB all you should need is a Blood Moon in play and a Chalice for 3 to protect it from Deed (which also stops Cunning Wish, 'Tog, Yawg Will). That's what I've noticed while playing W-Mud.
Therefore, I suggest you should take out those Sphere of Resistances and maindeck the Chalices. Chalices are SO useful. Take out the Damping Matrices from your SB and replace them with 3 Pyrostatic Pillars if you come across Tendril-based decks (that's more of a meta-call). And with those 3 slots in your SB open (from MD-ing the Chalices) you should throw in REB's (Red Elemental Blasts). But putting in Ensnaring Bridges is also an option since you run Grafted Skullcap instead of Mind's Eye.

That's what I think...but in the end it all comes down to the fact that it's a meta-game call and it's your deck, you do what you want with it.

One of the situations that actually happened at a tournament, that was one of the original topics of this post, was that 2 players were playing a final round (before T8) match and ran out of time. When the judge told them they were out of time and they were going to get draws (which is what should have happened because they chose to play the match out) they rolled dice to see which one of them would get the win. In this situation they should've both received draws (keeping them out of T8) but because they chose to roll it out the winner of a die roll pushed another guy out of T8 who, by the rules (because those two should've gotten draws), should have been in T8.

I don't know why everyone shifted over to this IDing issue, there's nothing wrong with IDing into T8. This thread is about bribery costing others T8 spots and other various forms of knocking people, who deserve T8 spots, out...obviously other than winning a match legally, IDing, blah blah blah....I'm talking about the shady things.

Took some advice from you and others and added some draw:

Deck Changes: -1 Winter Orb, -1 Mindslaver, -1 Sphere of Resistance
                       +2 Mind's Eye, +1 Chalice of the Void

To answer your questions:

- I don't want to totally cut Sphere of Resistance from the deck unless I know it's not helping me. When I think about it there aren't many decks that use many cards with cc's out of reach of Trinisphere (meaning over 3, although Trinisphere has no effect on 3cc spells). Trinisphere effectively screws up 0-2cc spells and for the 3cc spells (Yawg Will, Cunning Wish, 'Tog, Pernicious Deed) I could just use Chalice of the Void. I haven't had much time to see if Trinisphere nullifies the need for Sphere of Resistance. I'll let you know...

-Winter Orb is very useful. It just makes Tangle Wire that much better. With a Winter Orb on the table it makes my opponent tap non-land permanents, the goods. Even without a Tangle Wire out it still slows down my opponent a lot. Even though I cut the Winter Orb count down to 2 I don't think I would ever consider completely cutting them.

-I never really missed having the 4th Chalice of the Void but then I never saw a time where I could use, or benefit from using, Mindslaver so I decided to cut the Mindslaver for the 4th Chalice of the Void. This way I should rarely ever be short on Chalices.

-I don't think I would've done better if I was running Grafted Skullcap with Ensnaring Bridge although I've already seen an improvement since I've added more draw (Mind's Eye) to the deck. Besides, I don't think I have the room for both Grafted Skullcaps andEnsnaring Bridges.

-You're right, people should talk more about Welder MUD and not Slaver Control...although I think I'm the only one in my area playing Welder MUD right now...I've seen some Control Slaver but no other Welder MUDs.

Exactly Rico Suave. If the person has no intention of getting something for conceding but does so out of good will then the other player was just being nice.

But I feel that once the person puts the gift before the price then it is obviously bribery and therefore cheating. If the person said, "Hey, if you scoop right now I'll give you a cut if I win something because my deck has a better chance in T8" then i would have a problem with that.

EDIT: Of course if I was in that position with thte weaker deck I would play it out anyway because I'd still have a shot at a prize. Even if I had no chance to make it I would make him play it out just because of the fact that I could ruin his day by knocking him out.  

Quote: "#3 my deck sucks but I was T8 bound, what place did you come in?"

I came in 19th place (3-3-0) with like 10 other people. But that doesn't matter. We were ALL TOP 8 BOUND...we just lost...yes you lost too. You didn't make T8 so you're no better than I am. Oh wait, you're worse because you roll dice to win instead of playing it out.

Quote: "I believe the clear assertion is that the only one who was screwed out of T8 was myself due to rules not being followed at this tourney"

Ya, not being followed by YOU. So you cheated and got screwed out of T8. Good I'm happy.  bye.

Man it was a rough day for Welder TriniMUD (there's a decklist posted in the Open Type 1 Forum). Because I only made 16th I'll save some space and time and keep it VERY short.

Round 1: Playing against random G/W deck.

Game 1: Went pretty easy for me. Got the early lock on him with 2 Spheres and a Trinisphere. Then played Trisk with Tangle Wire and swung for the win.

Game 2: Holy crap....My hand looked very good so I kept it...too bad all I drew after that was mana sources...couldn't keep him down for long with a Trinisphere. I play Trisk and kill his face-down Exalted. He follows with Ravenous Baloth and smashes my face in.

Game 3: Exactly like Game 2 except this game the kill was a Cathodian equipped with a BONESPLITTER! Yup, Welder TriniMUD loses to Cathodian with a Bonesplitter attached to it.
(0-1-0)

Round 2: play against bad Elf Deck.

Game 1: Play Welder and Trisk, kill elves, win.

Game 2: Play Trinisphere followed by Tangle Wire and Trisk. Win
(1-1-0)


Round 3:  against Sligh.

Game 1: I play a Sphere and Tangle. He gets some weenies out. I play Trisk and he auto-scoops.

Game 2: He plays first turn Lotus, Slith, Goblin Cadet, and Jackal Pups. My face is smashed.

Game 3: I get a soft lock out and eventually get Trisk on the table and he auto-scoops again.
(2-1-0)


Round 4: against 'TOG

Game 1: I get the early lock out and he's able to Deed it away so I get another lock out later cuz he never sees a counter. Short story shorter, I lock him down and play Trisk and swing, swing, swing....

Game 2: Similar to Game 1 except he sees counters this time. I Jar and bait him with a Trinisphere (countered) and Smokestack(counterd) and follow with a Chalice for 3. He ran outta counters. Next turn Demonics for an answer but they are all Chaliced (Will, Deed, Tog, Wish). He scoops.
(3-1-0)


Round 5: Was supposed to play Sui-Black but the repairing put me against Madness  

Game 1: I would've owned Sui-Black... Anyway he plays first and goes something like mox, mox, bazaar. Uses bazaar plays Rootwalla discards Deep Anal. Next turn he uses Bazaar again, plays Wurm and discards Roar and Anger. smash smash smash I'm dead.

Game 2: More of Game 1.
(3-2-0)

Round 6: against my friend Micah playin' Stars and Stripes

Game 1: first turn Trinisphere and Welder. Early Lock + Trisk = win for me

Game 2: He plays Mox Monkey and rapes me. I try to come back but he keeps me at bay with counters...Meddling Mage on SmokeStack didn't help.

Game 3: Plays Mox Monkey yet again. blows my early Chalice for 2 and all my moxen. Lives through a Tangle Wire, I try to come back but he gets Exalted out, shows me R&R in his hand so I scoop.
(3-3-0)

I was doing alright throughout the first half of the tourney (except for that embarassing Cathodian/Bonesplitter moment. That stupid re-pairing 5ht round sucked cuz I would've had a MUCH better chance of beating Sui-Black than Madness. Whatever, there's always next time...

Team Dubya results:

John: 9th place (U/W landstill)

Micah: 11th or 12th place (Stars and Stripes, R/W/U Iso-Keeper type      deck with Exalted, Meddling Mage, Chants, and stuff like that. It's good.)

Pete: 26th place (He dropped after 4th round I think. Played Nether Spirit Keeper)

Jason: somewhere around 12th place I think, I forgot. (Sui-Black)

Rob (new guy): First T1 tourney ever. Placed 16th. (Ankh-Sligh)

Gary(me): You probably just read the report: placed 19th I think. (Welder Trini-Mud

hahhha. Ya that was me. I was playin Welder TriniMUD and lost first round to a Cathodian with a Bonesplitter attached to it (MASSIVE 5/5 BEATS!) God it hurt...I got all mana sources and lock (but no smokes). With no smokes I couldn't keep up the lock long enough to draw into a Triskelion or Karn and then he played that Cathodian/Bonesplitter and I pee'd my pantz cuz I knew that was game.... maaaaaaaan. Rough times for Welder TriniMUD.

I should write a report....

Quote: "First IMO drawing intentionally is panzy."

   The reason people intentionally draw is to ensure a place in T8. Why would two players who are 3-0 (out of 5 rounds) play it out? There's a chance that one of them might not make it so they draw to make sure that they make it to T8.

JazzyKat: I hope you NEVER run a tournament. If you would allow both bribing and cheating in a tournament then why the #$%@ should anyone PLAY THE GAME? Everyone should just pick up some dice, and roll them to see who wins each round. Then once someone loses the die roll to they can just offer the other person a couple cards for the win. And if that doesn't work they can always get on their knees...assuming they want a Mox or Lotus that bad because they're so un-confident in their decks that they'd rather start buying the win than earning it.

Quote: "#1 by DCI rules I got the win due to his showing up late"

   Then why didn't you take the win, even if it wasn't sanctioned you were still playing by DCI rules right? You didn't have to resort to rolling dice *Cheeetorz*.

Quote: "#2 if one must rely on 2 other contenders drawing one probably didnt deserve to T8 anyway."

   Well you and TJ certainly didn't deserve to go to Top 8. If you had own the die roll then you would've made T8 by cheating *Cheeetorz*. And holy crap TJ... you cheated through at LEAST 1/3 of the entire tournament. (Round 6 die rolling, earlier getting smacked in the face 0-2 by Sui-Black then bribing with 2 Tundras for the 2-0 win).

   And what was this with the Tourney Judge guy watching you two roll for the win? What an ass....I hate Rhode Island tourneys. Go Hadley and Auburn! Much better tourneys.

To sum this ranting up (To TJ and Matrix)
          Have a little more faith in your deck and stop relying on bribes and die rolls to make it to T8 for you. Obviously if you have to cheat your way to T8 then your deck sucks, you suck, and your whole idea of what it means to T8 in a tournament sucks and maybe you should use the time you spend telling everyone, "Look at me! I'm cool because I placed higher than most of you because I CHEAT!" to fix your deck so next time you can tell us how you made it to T8 WITHOUT cheating.

Now that Darkstell is legal I've been trying to fit Trinisphere's into my Welder MUD deck. I finally found a way and played at the Rhode Island Tourney with it and got in 16th (3-3-0)  . I packed up decks like Sligh and Hulk but got completely and totally pwn3d by Madness. I can never beat Madness unless they get a REALLY crappy hand. Anyway, here's the decklist with some explanations:


Mana Sources:  Total: 25

4 Mishra's Workshop (Lotus Lands)
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Mountain
1 Tolarian Academy
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault


Lockdown: Total: 16

4 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire
4 Sphere of Resistance


Other Goodies: Total: 8

3 Chalice of the Void
3 Winter Orb
1 Mindslaver
1 Memory Jar

Creatures/Kill: Total: 11

4 Metalworker
4 Goblin Welder
2 Triskelion
1 Karn, Silver Golem


Sideboard: Total: 15 (errrr...duh)

4 R.E.B.
3 Blood Moon
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Jester's Cap
1 Platinum Angel

To fit the Trinispheres: -1 Chalice of the Void, -1 Wheel of Fortune, -1 Karn, Silver Golem, -1 Triskelion

I used to be a fan of Wheel of Fortune but have come to the conclusion that more times than not giving my opponent a fresh new hand (a lot of the time it's a new hand of Forces, Drains, etc.) hurts a lot more than giving me a new one to throw down on the table.

The lone Mindslaver is in there for an alternate win. Yea, I could put that extra Karn in there in it's place or main deck a Rack and Ruin for those main decked Null Rods, but I haven't decided exactly what I'm going to do about it yet.

The Platinum Angel in the sideboard used to be main decked. But I find it's better off in the sideboard as it is only useful against decks like Sui-Black that can't kill it and therefore can't kill me and Hulk if for some reason I wouldn't be owning Hulk anyway.

3 R&R's might be a little heavy but there in there for the mirror match, but I don't think many people play MUD/Stax anyway. Whatever, then it's for the Slaver Control that won in Johnston, RI last Sunday.

Like I said in the introduction, this deck blows against MaDnEsS and I don't know what I can do about it. Can I add/remove some things to improve my odds against Madness or should I just take it like a man and face the fact that Madness will always kick MUD in the nutz?

Even if we can't enforce it, we can always find out who did it and ridicule/shun them for life.  

then maybe ill write a report.....nah i dont think 16th (although i did give away the last match) deserves to write a report.

Ya! He bribed your ass with 2x Tundra and you took it!! ...Who wouldn't take it? I would've taken it.  I hate cheaters. Stupid cheaters... good job Jason...you basically paid $15 for two Tundras. Enjoy.

Landstill is so hard, if not impossible, to play without a full set of Mana Drain's and Force of Will's. For card draw you could either try Impulse or Brainstorm. And you could also use a Mystical Tutor to grab a Force of Will or another counter if you need it. But like I said; It's so hard to play without Drains.

Hey,
     I finally took the time to create a TMD name. You Hadley, Torrington, and RI people have probably seen me.  

     I'm Gary, I always play Welder MUD....well now it's TriniMUD. I never win anything although I do make T8 once a year or so...stupid MUD.

If you still don't know who I am: I'm John's younger brother (he plays UW Landstill) and come with him, Micah and Peter (they play randomness)

Ya...not much else to say. You don't wanna here bout my life... sooooo yaaaaaaaaaa.....bye.