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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck] Control Slaver Revisited.
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on: August 10, 2004, 02:56:14 pm
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Crimson Hellkite/Shivan Hellkite/Vampiric Dragon all beat a Platinum Angel when Dragon's going off. Well, if they play the red splash that is... I was more thinking that if they milled you out with Laquatus you could weld Plats in on your Upkeep to stay alive. I have seen some local Dragon builds splashing for Shivan Hellkite but I have never seen Vampiric Dragon or Crimson Hellkire get played. Back on topic now. The point is you don't even have to go aggro with angel, you can afford to just sit there until the combo portion of the deck eventually comes to fruition and you set up a very nasty slaver lock.
The problem with that reasoning is that if Fish gets you below zero life you are just asking for them to F/I/Lavamance it to kill you. I think you have to look at Plats as a 4/4 flying attacker before a card that buys you enough time to allow you to Slaver lock them. You're obviously not going to attack stupidly of course(i.e. into Conclave or multiple Hatchlings or something) Maybe I'm playing with him incorrectly, but I've found that it is much easier for Fish to handle a Titan than an Angel. I think it all depends at which stage of the game you are in. Early game Fish cannot handle Titan at all and they will lose to him but once they get to the midgame and drop a few threats he is much easier to deal with. If fish can get a mana base along with a few threats established then Platinum is better. Otherwise, their worst guy is chumping every turn while they swing for 3-4 damage which is enough to race titan if they have enough creatures and mana to continually play chump blockers while attacking.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck] Control Slaver Revisited.
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on: August 09, 2004, 10:22:55 pm
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I'd like to touch on a few key points you are all making about Plats vs. Titan in the fish matchup.
First off, both are great in different situations. An early Titan often ends the game quickly as fish cannot deal with the 7/10 frame, but if it is mid-late game and you are getting beat down Titan isn't nearly as good as Platinum Angel due to it keeping you alive while providing a 4/4 flyer to block/attack with.
In addition, I do not think Plats can be left out of Control Slaver. She pulls you out of unwinnable situations and provides assurance against things like Dragon milling you out if you have an active Welder. Now I can see certain metagames where the Angel might not be very good but knowing it is in the deck to save you as a last resort option is sometimes crucial(i.e. Angel beatdown from 4cControl). Even so, no matter how sure you are of your own metagame, there is always the chance that someone will play a deck that you didn't expect where not having Platinum Angel is the difference between winning and losing.
It seems like everyone is now in agreement that Platinum Angel deserves a maindeck slot(except Hi-Val but he has metagame considerations where other cards may fit better).
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7
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Archives / Archived Vintage Tournament Forum / Workshop Tourney @Game Universe 8/29
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on: August 05, 2004, 01:17:30 pm
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Hello, Games Universe will be holding another type 1 tournament on 8-29-04. Registration begins at 10am and the tournament will start at 11. Entry fee is $10 Proxies-The owner is trying something new on a small tourney like this one. There will be 5 proxies for free and they will cost $1 each after that. So if you want to play a deck with 10 proxies the entry fee will be $15. The prize is a NM Mishra's Workshop with second and third recieving store credit based upon attendence(usually $125 for 2nd and $25 for 3rd). Here is their website http://www.game-universe.comAny questions PM me or call 414-427-8800 The store's address for those who have never been here is HWY 100 &Layton 4631 S. 108th Greenfield, Wi *Note-There is almost a guarantee for a Lotus tournament in September because of the excellent turnout at the latest Mox Ruby tournament.
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9
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Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / [Black Rare] Grapplemaggot
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on: July 10, 2004, 10:27:24 pm
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Well, the main problem I see is the -0/-2 counter. Wizards doesn't use any counters besides +1/+1 or -1/-1 for creatures anymore(in terms of p/t chnaging that is).
In order for it to work you would need to put -1/-1 counters on the creature during their upkeep instead.
I think it's power level is fine though you will need to figure out how you want the upkeep minusing to work.
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11
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Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / What's your idea of some pimped out land?
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on: July 01, 2004, 02:46:08 pm
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The Saga lands are the best non pimped foiled ones like Machinus said. The best island is the one with the storm, #335 I believe. I also agree that Swamp #341 is the best swamp. In addition, there are foil versions of the island (I don't know if they are misprints or what) without the expansion symbol, which doesn't sound like it would look cool but it does on a foil I used to have one of those Islands and it was signed too. I didn't know how rare it was until I look at some online stores' pricing on it. It was going for like $30. I'm pretty sure it was an arena foil but without the symbol it was awesome.
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Archives / Archived Vintage Tournament Forum / [Tourney] July 23rd Eau Claire, WI 5 Proxy for a Mox Ruby
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on: June 30, 2004, 01:25:10 pm
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I'd seriously consider doing cut to top 8 playoff. In Game Univere's first tournament we cut to top 4 and we haven't had the same attendence since because many people were mad about not making it. Top 8 is 100% better, even if you have only 20 people.
If there are more than 16 people playing in it you should also run 5 rounds. It gives players a chance to recoup from 1 bad matchup easier.
I will not be at this tournament unfortunatley because I'm out of town. Some of my friends from Milwaukee might come to it but I doubt anyone from Chicago or Illinois will come due to the late start time.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Type Four - 5th Dawn
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on: June 29, 2004, 05:31:04 pm
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Type 4 is the format where you have infinite mana but can only cast 1 spell per turn and every card is restriced and certain cards, like X-Spells, are banned because they autowin the game. If thats what type 4 is, it is incredibly fun and is great for playing inbetween rounds at tournaments.
Like Toad said the Black and Blue Bringers are amazing while the others are either ok or bad. Reversal of Fortune could be really fun and Etched oracle could be strong, as could many of the sunburst cards.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / GWS ownz it up yet again in the Midwest 6/27/04
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on: June 28, 2004, 10:10:49 pm
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dogleg that was you who did that ridiculous play against me! I will get you back for that!
In all seriousness, trinistax may not have been the best call but you pretty well for all the artifact hate. I know you played against the Crucible combo deck, how was it?
Belcher wins games because it can just topdeck broken cards that win games by themselves. Usually 1 activation wins the game because there are only 2 lands in the deck. I played it at the May tourney and did ok but the inconsistency and bad luck caught up with me. Sometimes the deck just can't win, like when you necropotence for 10 and draw 6 land grants...
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Eternal Formats / Creative / [Report] Draw-7 5th @ Game-Universe Mox Tournament
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on: June 28, 2004, 07:47:13 pm
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I'd like to note that it is absolutely clear that Brian wins with 7/10 exclusively because he draws extremely well. He has not, I repeat, HAS NOT tested with the deck hours upon hours and by no means has any skill. LOL. Anyway, topdecks are part of magic and 7/10 just has so many cards it can draw to go broken it seems like it happans all the time. I know as he did against me too. Nice report though, and thanks for providing a decklist as James didn't give me your list to post but I edited it in. Congrats on the finish.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / GWS ownz it up yet again in the Midwest 6/27/04
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on: June 28, 2004, 04:13:18 pm
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Nice report and congrats on the finish. There were some stupid players saying junk like that. It was overall an awesome tourney though. I put the top 8 lists in the tourney forum if you are interested.
Mat, also thanks for writing neat enough so I could read your list. I also liked the Black Lotus proxy comment too. Your stupid team keeps winning but I will beat the ENTIRE team GWS in August when I reveal the tech.
@jebus, being the judge that you are can you answer me 1 question. I cast Duress and my opponent Misdirected it to me, this wasn't game altering as I just countered his Misdirection therefor winning the game, but are you allowed to do this and pick a card out the player casting Duress's hand? I was pretty sure you couldn't but I wanted to make sure.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Gay/r goes 3-2 in Milwaukee 6/27
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on: June 28, 2004, 11:24:38 am
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Excellent report. This was probably the best tournament Game Universe has had for type 1. The metagame was incredibly mixed compared to past tourneys and it was very fun. Congrats to your team for owning Milwaukee again; I will get my revenge on Brian in August though as long as he doesn't topdeck as well as he did this tournament.
Also, I posted the results in the tournament forum if you are interested.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Report] I liek GAT
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on: June 27, 2004, 09:58:57 pm
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Nice finish with GAT. I was just wondering what your decklist was and if there were any changes you'd make to it. I played Suicide GAT today in the Milwaukee tournament but got out drew. The decklist I played was
4 Quirion Dryad 2 Psychatog 4 Force of Will 3 Misdirection 3 Duress 2 Daze 4 Brainstorm 4 Serum Visions 4 Night's Whisper 2 Cunning Wish 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Gush 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Fastbond 4 Undergound Sea 4 Tropical island 2 Volcanic Island 4 Flooded Strand 1 Library of Alexandria 1 Island 4 Moxes 1 Black Lotus
Sideboard 2 Red Elemental Blast 2 Deep Analysis 2 Artifact Mutation 1 Oxidize 1 Gorilla Shaman 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Firestorm 1 Smother 1 Berserk 1 Fire/Ice 1 Blue Elemental Blast 1 Coffin Purge
Even though there aren't many colorless mana sinks the lack of hard counters like Drain really hurt me. There were times when I was holding Misdirection and they would cast something huge and I couldn't do anything about it. I don't think that Drains could be added though, when you add Drains you can just play better cards like Intuition for Accumulated Knowledge and then you play Hulk.
What does everyone think about possibly adding Counterspell to the deck. Duress barely did anything all day and Counterspell would have helped quite a bit. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions on that.
I also added a 21st mana source instead of the Fire/Ice because I didn't want to lose to my own deck. This worked out great as mana screw was not a problem at all.
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Archives / Archived Vintage Tournament Forum / [Results]-June 27 Milwaukee-7/10 Split Wins
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on: June 27, 2004, 09:42:11 pm
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Hello,
This tournament took place on June 27 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin at Game Universe. It was 10-Proxy type 1 and 25 players showed up. Unforunatley, there was also a Mox tourny in Minnesota which probably took 6-7 players away from the total.
The field was much more mixed than usual; where in the past artifact and Workshop based decks had run rampant.
Here are the top 8 decks
1st Place-Brian Fisher-7/10 Split
4 Goblin Welder 3 Sundering Titan 2 Triskelion 2 Memnarch 1 Platinum Angel 4 Force of Will 4 Thirst for Knowledge 4 Brainstorm 4 Chalice of the Void 1 Memory Jar 1 Timetwister 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Tinker 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Wheel of Fortune 3 Gilded Lotus 4 Mishra's Workshop 4 Shivan Reef 2 Glimmervoid 1 City of Brass 1 Tolarion Academy 1 Mana Vault 1 Mana Crypt 7 SoLoMoxen
Sideboard 2 Duplicant 2 Rack and Ruin 3 Blue Elemental Blast 3 Trinisphere 2 Overload 3 Damping Matrix
2nd Place-Jeremy O'Dell-3c Hulk Smash
3 Psychatog 4 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will 3 Duress 4 Accumulated Knowledge 3 Cunning Wish 2 Pernicious Deed 1 Deep Analysis 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 1 Gush 1 Mind Twist 4 Underground Sea 3 Tropical Island 3 Island 3 Polluted Delta 2 Flooded Strand 1 Library of Alexandria 6 SoLoMoxen(wtf? none of his cards were proxied either)-Missing Ruby 1 Mana Crypt
Sideboard 2 Ground Seal 2 Hydroblast 1 Blue Elemental Blast 1 Berserk 1 Naturalize 1 Oxidize 1 Echoing Decay 1 Smother 1 Coffin Purge 1 Lim-Dul's Vault 1 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Rushing River 1 Thwart
3rd-4th Place-Gregg Seavers-Trini-TnT
4 Goblin Welder 4 Juggernaut 3 Su-Chi 1 Anger 1 Squee, Goblin Nabob 1 Pentavus 1 Sundering Titan 1 Karn, Silver Golem 1 Solemn Simulacrum 1 Triskelion 1 Gorilla Shaman 1 Masticore 4 Survival of the Fittest 4 Trinisphere 3 Tangle Wire 1 Memory Jar 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 7 SoLoMoxen 4 Mishra's Workshop 4 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 4 Wooded Foothills 2 Taiga 3 Forest 1 Mountain
Sideboard 3 Chalice of the Void 3 Naturalize 3 Blood Moon 3 Red Elemental Blast 1 Elf Replica 1 Duplicant 1 Platinum Angel
3rd-4th Place-Mat Endress-4c Control
3 Exalted Angel 3 Gorilla Shaman 4 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will 3 Cunning Wish 2 Swords to Plowshares 2 Skeletal Scrying 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Mind Twist 1 Decree of Justice 1 Balance 1 Mystical Tutor 4 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 4 Flood Strand 3 Tundra 2 Volcanic Island 3 City of Brass 2 Underground Sea 1 Library of Alexandria 6 SoLoMoxen-Missing Emerald
Sideboard 3 Red Elemental Blast 3 Flametongue Kavu 2 Stifle 2 Blue Elemental Blast 1 Skeletal Scrying 1 Rack and Ruin 1 Disenchant 1 Swords to Plowshares 1 Vampiric Tutor
5th-8th Place-Andy Crivello-Goblin Charbelcher
7 SoLoMoxen 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Chrome Mox 1 Grim Monolith 1 Lotus Petal 1 Lion's Eye Diamond 4 Chromatic Sphere 4 Elvish Spirit Guide 4 Tinder Wall 4 Land Grant 4 Dark Ritual 1 Tropical Island 1 Bayou 4 Goblin Charbelcher 3 Night's Whisper 3 Brainstorm 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Time Walk 1 Wheel of Fortune 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Windfall 1 Spoils of the Vault 1 Memory Jar 1 Timetwister 1 Channel 1 Tendrils of Agony 2 Living Wish
Sideboard 1 Tolarion Academy 1 Red Elemental Blast 1 Night's Whisper 1 Brainstorm 1 Duplicant 1 Viridian Shaman 7 Forest-...
5th-8th Place-Sean Ryder-U/R Fish
4 Grim Lavamancer 4 Spiketail Hatchling 3 Cloud of Faeries 2 Voidmage Prodigy 1 Gorilla Shaman 4 Standstill 4 Curiosity 4 Force of Will 2 Misdirection 2 Daze 1 Fire/Ice 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 3 Null Rod 4 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 4 Mishra's Factory 3 Faerie Conclave 3 Polluted Delta 3 Island
Sidebaord 4 Tormod's Crypt 3 Rack and Ruin 2 Fire/Ice 2 Sword of Fire and Ice 2 Pyroblast 1 Misdirection 1 Stifle
5th-8th Place-Ryan Spindler-U/G/R Madness
4 Wild Mongrel 4 Arrogant Wurm 4 Basking Rootwalla 3 Anger 2 Wonder 3 Roar of the Wurm 3 Deep Analysis 4 Careful Study 4 Fiery Temper 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 6 SoLoMoxen-Missing Jet 1 Lion's Eye Diamond 4 Bazaar of Baghdad 4 Taiga 4 Tropical Island 3 Volcanic Island 4 Wooded Foothills 1 Forest
Sideboard 3 Red Elemental Blast 3 Waterfront Bouncer 3 Tormod's Crypt 3 Artifact Mutation 3 Stifle
5th-8th Place-Dan Carp-Draw-7
1 Memory Jar 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Necropotence 2 Tendrils of Agony 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Ancestral Recall 4 Brainstorm 1 Chain of Vapor 3 Diminishing Returns 4 Force of Will 1 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Mind's Desire 1 Time Walk 1 Timetwister 1 Tinker 1 Windfall 1 Crop Rotation 1 Fastbond 1 Wheel of Fortune 4 Elvish Spirit Guide 4 Dark Ritual 1 Black Lotus 1 Lion's Eye Diamond 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 4 City of Brass 4 Gemstone Mine 2 Glimmervoid 1 Tolarian Academy
SB: 4 Xantid Swarm 4 Illusionary Mask 4 Phrexian Dreadnough 3 Hurkyl's Recall
Some of the maindecks are slightly slanted towards artifact hate because in the past, artifact decks had been highly played to good finishes(ie 3 Shamans main in 4c Control). The metagame was also very mixed. Here is the breakdown to the best of my memory
1 Trix 2 Dragon 1 Crucible Combo 1 TriniStax 1 7/10 Split 2 GAT 1 Hulk 1 Draw-7 1 Trini-TnT 1 4c Control 3 U/R Fish 1 U/R Landstill 1 Old School Keeper-With Green, Morphlings, Sylvan Libary, etc. 1 2-Land Belcher 1 U/G/R Madness 2 Food Chain Goblins 3 Random.dec 1 Missing
Team GWS DOES own this area. With 7/10 Split Brian Fisher has won 4/5 tourney's he has been to with the deck. He also made top 4 at the one he didn't win. Mat Endress made top 4 after splitting 1st at the April tourney plus all the good finishes in Chicago.
These TMD members were all present
bedafile moxlotus into the silence squee-obviously angryphelddagrif Lost In Admiration
I hope to see you all there at the August tourney!
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Archives / Archived Vintage Tournament Forum / [Announcement] Game Universe 10-Proxy Type 1
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on: June 26, 2004, 03:10:00 pm
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Game Universe in Milwaukee is having another Mox tournament. This time it is for a Mox Ruby. http://www.game-universe.comWhen: August 1st 10AM Sign up and registration 11AM Start $20 entry fee(if we can get enough people to show then it can be reduced) Prize: Near Mint Unlimited Mox Ruby(I have seen the Ruby and it is nearly perfect) If enough people show up for this tournament the owner said he would get a Lotus for the next one along with better prize support on down. These tournaments have become monthly over the spring and have been drawing people from all over the place. The more people that come the more we can improve prizes, entry fees, and everything else. I hope to see you all there!
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Worse Than Fish: the Reprise (aka WTF/r)
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on: June 26, 2004, 12:02:41 pm
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I guess the reason Serendib got dismissed so quickly was because it isn't that great in the already unfavorable aggro matchup. Against fast aggro the pings here and there from FoW and the 6 fetches add up. With Call you still get the big body but no pain. It also comes back for more later on and is great against control; not that Serendib isn't though.
As for the random Stifle, it could sometimes lead your opponent to make suboptimal plays by playing around your single Stifle when you don't have it. This in turn could lead them to walk right into another random 1-of like Oxidize or maybe Fire/Ice.
Jacob never advocated the use of Blood Moon. The deck's mana base could use all the help it can get and Blood Moon will help out the opponent's more than you.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Food Chain (mirror)
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on: June 26, 2004, 11:55:54 am
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You could always add the additional Sharpshooter to the maindeck to help in the mirror. Other than that there isn't really much you can do because you've already maxed out on Gempalms.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / C&J's Tournament Report 6/24 Dragon+Hulk rules!
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on: June 26, 2004, 10:13:55 am
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Nice report and finish. Congrats.
How did Time Walk work out for you? Whenever I've played Dragon it is usually pretty bad because it is horrible if it isn't in your opening hand. I cut it all together from my build in favor of 1 Lim-Dul's Vault.
Were the 2 Ambassadors as your win conditions a personal preferrence or were they just altogether better than Sliver Queen in testing? I still like the 1/1 configuration because if some random deck is playing Gaea's Blessing(I mean totally random btw) you can get around that. It still pitches to FoW and it works as a beater if you are desperate.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / SlapJack: NEW Deck by LotusHead
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on: June 26, 2004, 09:57:07 am
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All the options of this deck certainly haven't been explored yet, but a lot of your specific card choices have me baffled. Also- doesn't this make like 4 active threads pertaining to this less than stellar deck? How about no more new threads until we've made a big discovery/innovation... Yes, especially since we have yet to figure out why this combo-control deck is better than any of the tier 1 or 2 options. It plays a slow, vulernable combo with some decent control to back it up. The problem is plays neither the control nor the combo game well so it is very awkward. As for your card choices, 3 Brainstorm...wtf? You also don't play any fetchlands to smooth out your mana base and make BS amazing but you manage to find room Latern of Insight, Wayfarer's Bauble, and other randomness. On a side note, I beat Neo-Academy 2 times out of 4 with this deck. YAY! (Neo-Academy was my first introduction for Lopsidedly Broken Type 1 Decks. One year later, I finally beat it.)
I hate to break it to you but Neo-Academy hasn't been viable in type 1 for quite a while. Unless you mean Draw-7 or TPS or Deathwish Long that is.
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Archives / Archived Vintage Tournament Forum / [Results] - Turin - 20 June - Keeper Wins
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on: June 26, 2004, 09:48:21 am
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Another RG Madness top'8ed...I find it interesting that RG Madness seems to almost always crack a top 8 in Italy but it hasn't even made a splash anywhere else in the world.
The Hulk smash lists are sorta weird too(well, the one with a working link). It only play 1 Intuition which I have never seen before. That could be attributed to him not being able to find a 2nd one though. He also plays 2 Fire/Ice and 2 Pernicious Deed. The Italian metgame looks to be very diverse so I can't see the need for 2 maindeck deeds and 2 F/I. He also plays no Shamans between the maindeck and sideboard.
I don't though, the Hulk list is really different but he made top 8 and you can't argue with results.
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