I remember going to both CrazyCons and having a great time.  I'll happily drive to more from Wisconsin.

Basic 10-proxy seems to be normal for any T1 event in the US anymore.  I'd agree you need to go with that.  Also, going 10-proxy helps me talk some of the locals into making the trip down.  I'm the only one in our group who owns power.

I have no problem with $1 per proxy over 10, but would prefer it capped at like 5 extra.  It's not a hatred of proxies, but more of an issue with keeping track of board position when too many permanents in the deck aren't real.  Especially when people get lazy when making their proxies and don't write the card name clearly or legibly.

I'm looking for some thoughts on the oath matchup.  Typically, I've been relying on Duplicant for taking care of creatures that make it into play, but SSS looks like it will make this plan alot harder to pull off (or impossible).

Is there a better option?  I like the utility of dups in multiple matchups and hate the idea of running something like bombardment just for anti-oath.

Ah, that explains alot then.  I'm glad to see the banning actually was a joke.  I hate losing those references

Congrats on the win.  I was too tired to hang out until the end, after losing to Vroman in the first round of the T8.  There wasn't much to say about both our games.  Uba Stax pretty much wasted me, as he got lock components in place very quickly in both games and it was an uphill battle from there.  It was nice to see the deck in action but sucked losing to it.  Especially since only the top 2 got prize 

I was also your 2nd round opponent (playing CS)

There is no T1 scene in Madison to speak of.  Milwaukee or Chicago are really the closest things to Central Wisconsin where any vintage events occur.  Most people around here with power of any sort usually just have it in a 5-color deck.

Madison is pretty much a limited only town.  The only time people even have constructed decks for any format is when there's a PTQ or GP trial hosted here.

I've bounced between casual and tournament player for almost 4 years now.  That changes based on having people around me who play a specific format, since I've moved alot.  Around here (Madison), it's mostly 5C and limited, with very little constructed play going on except for the random PTQ.  As a result, playing any T1 is basically limited to random apprentice games unless I want to travel.

I could drive a few hours to play in T1 events, but honestly I don't see the point right now.  For example, I went to the last SCG in Chicago having read as much current stuff as I could about the format, but having done very little actual testing.  I went like 2-2-drop because there was little point in sticking it out anymore.  I could play for fun or do a side event, but why spend more money?  Basically, I dropped $25 on an event because I didn't have the time to really test for it.  I still played because I wanted to.  However, I highly doubt I'll be going back for the next one.

Even if the casual (or less competitive) T1 player loves the idea of being able to proxy power, you're not going to hold their interest long at these high stakes big tournaments.  Why?  Because all they're going to do is scrub out because they don't have the latest tech or the benefit of a team to scout or whatever.  They can NetDeck, but are they really going to understand all of what they're playing.  I went up against a guy playing Dragon at one event and I had to explain after the game that he could have won (this was round 1).  He'd borrowed most of the deck and had barely played it.  Attendance will drop because the risk is not worth the lack of reward they'll probably walk away with.

I should note, I've been playing for 10+ years and have had full power at many points in time.  I still have all my power (except for my twister) and probably will hold onto them for the time being.  I played at GenCon last year and have traveled to a few bigger tournaments in the region.  But the tournament scene has really changed too much for it to remain worth it for me right now.  I used to play in Saturday afternoon T1 tournaments down in Decatur, IL.  For like $5 you got to play 5 rounds and maybe win some packs.  You just don't see those T1 tournaments very often anymore.  Lately, all I ever hear about is the next $20+ 10-proxy your chance at mox extravaganza.  They may offer decent prizes for the T8, if attendance is high or enough people show to even have a T8, but sometimes that's not even going to happen because some people are just scared away by the fear of over-competitve players who will take it all anyway.

Playing is a big gamble for some people in this format who have already shelled out big bucks for their decks for just some of the basic cards they need.  If I blow $5 on some constructed event and walk out with nothing, I don't care much.  It's just a random FNM or whatever.  But if I spend $20 on something and just get my ass handed to me, I'm going to think twice about doing it for fun a second time around.  Vintage needs the small events to even have a chance at getting people interested in being competitive in the first place.  Some areas have those, but I'd wager that most just do T2 or draft when they don't have a mox to give away.

I don't need to win power to have fun.  I'd be just as happy playing for a dual land and having cash left over to buy dinner after the tournament.  I doubt I play in any Vintage events until that time comes around again.

FYI, posting a decklist by itself will get this closed or moved pretty quickly.

As for the deck, it looks just like a transfer over from extended with wheel and lotus petal thrown in.  Chalice for 1 is going to shutdown most of the deck, and a chalice for 2 will seal the deal.

Wow, I spaced on that for some reason.  This is what happens when you have graveyard hate on the brain.  For some reason, I keep thinking of planar void when I think of Samurai and it's really messing with me.

So, it's not as good against tog and I admit it.  Any thoughts on helping this matchup then?  I still don't want it to stifle discussion of any deck that can abuse/use it.

First off: I didn't even think of shoals.  I really don't even like shoals, to be honest.  I was not making a reference to any particular counterspell when I made that statement.

Second: Your comments on tog almost answered your own question.  A Samurai in play would shut down most of togs draw engine and would prevent them from using their graveyard to reach lethal damage.  Basically, they'd need 11 cards in hand (10+1 wish) to hit letal zerk range.  It also would limit the effectiveness of will to anything that was played BEFORE Samurai hit play.

Also, I should note that I left Time Walk off my original decklist and forgot to mention why in my post.  I'm always mixed on how necessary the card is in a control deck.  It keeps bouncing on and off my list.  Any thoughts on this?

I'm posting this in newbie because I'm not sure where it's going yet...I'd rather it not get locked right away.

I'm starting to brainstorm some ideas for the spring vintage circuit, and I thought I'd put this list out here to see what we can come up with.  

White is growing in power for some reason.  We have some better options for kill conditions in the color and there are new tools that can truly help in the format.  Some old favorites (StP) are also getting their due in the format.

The most recent card that's caught my attention is Samurai of the Pale Curtain.  Because of how his ability works, he's almost the perfect hoser to plenty of decks in the environment.  For those who don't know:



Good stuff, if we can abuse him and buid a deck that allows us to get around the ability or doesn't rely heavily on the graveyard.

Think of the decks he shuts down once in play: Slaver, Tog, welder-based decks...just to name a few.

I'm currently pairing him with blue, because it provides some permission and plenty of drawing power.  Let's face it...parfait would be ideal if it weren't for the slow to start tax/rack engine.  Also, blue gives you a few more options for extra hate.

First, a tentative list and then I'll offer some extras that could be considered for such a deck.

Creature Base: 10
4x Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4x Meddling Mage
2x Exalted Angel

Counters: 8
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain

Draw/Tutor: 13
1x Ancestral Recall
4x Brainstorm
4x Impulse
1x Mystical Tutor
3x Cunning Wish

Other: 5
2x Seal of Cleansing
3x Swords to Plowshares

Mana: 24
7x SoLo Moxen
4x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
5x Plains
4x Island

SB: options
1x Fact or Fiction
4x BEB
xx Energy Flux
2x Seal of Cleansing
1x Swords to Plowshares
xx Hurkyl's Recall
xx Tormod's Crypt
1x Disenchant
xx Ivory Mask/Gilded Light
xx Stifle
xx Back to Basics
1x DS Colossus/Tinker
xx Bounce spell (Unsummon, Capsize, Boomerang, Seal of Removal)
1x Gush
xx Annul
xx Abbeyance/Orim's Chant

Included cards:

Samurai: well duh

Meddling Mage: He's a strong hoser for many decks and can keep them jumping through hoops to try and get the win.  Played early, he's a pain to get around.

Angel: I'm testing her as a finisher right now, but also have considered using 1x Angel/1x Morphling to give more utility in win conditions.

Drain/Force: I'm still waiting for the holy trinity of must have counters.  For now, these two will have to do.

Draw: Everything here is pretty much a no-brainer.  For the record, Impulse was included because I was really having an issue finding instant speed draw that wasn't too high-cc or wasn't GY reliant (AK)

Seal: A pretty strong card right now.  I think it's an decent choice.

Swords: For those decks with creatures that just won't die any other way...

Cards to Consider:

Isochron Scepter: With many good instants, this could lead to a possible use for this card.  It is risky and is card disadvantage in many cases...but that's not always true.

Aether Vial: Kind of weak with only 8 two-drops, but also might help in the 3sphere matchup.

AK: Ruled out because it runs against the point of the Samurai.

Crucible: See AK

Sacred Ground: A possible option for the 7/10 era.

Damping Matrix: May be better than Null Rod in many respects.  Shuts down quite a few things when you think about it.

Daze: Can be good, but not an auto-include in this deck.

Wastes/Strips: Good stuff, but not as effective without Crucible in the deck.

Concerns:
-The loss of the GY as a zone to abuse could be a serious problem.  So many decks rely on the GY now, that it is really the area that most decks prepare hate for in the first place.  At the same time, not all hate stops it.
-Fragile Samurai.  He's only a 2/2 when not blocked, pretty much marking him as burn bait.
-3sphere:  Really, what deck doesn't worry about this?  The is partially why I stopped playing GAT all the time
-Land Disruption: A set of Wastes/Strips could be a good thing...but it still worries me in that it may dillute the mana base.  Of course, I could always just run only the on-color moxen and re-adjust that way.

Your thoughts?

Props to the store staff for running a pretty smooth tournament.  Plus, the super long lunch break was a good bonus.

I just hope the bears aren't playing during the October tournament (the TV got kind of annoying)

I'd really just rather used Tormod's Crypt or something with a broader impact on the graveyard.  Sorcery speed just doesn't cut it for the effect, and it does not remove the threat permanently either.

I'm sure it's been looked at before, and set aside for much the same reasons.

actually, if you count FBB versions, birds exist is several BB variants, not just A/B/foil.

As for predicting value, I would imagine that A/B versions will drop a little once control hits, but not greatly because there is still the nostalgia factor.  Plus, birds may not see T1 play, but it is used in extended and always makes it's way into at least 1 standard deck.

I wouldn't call it abysmal, there are some things if you're not looking for a weekly occurence (well, kind of)

And you guys had to do it memorial day weekend?  Didn't you learn anything from Crazy Con 2 near T-day?  It was decently attended, but nowhere near the same level as the previous one.
Granted, that's not as important a family weekend, but alot of people do leave town for trips

Andrew = me

My GAT list was bacially Ultima's (GUB) with Duress over MisD. After scoping a bit, I felt it was a stronger choice.  I also played crypt over sol ring and FoF/DA instead of 2x DA.

SB looked like this:
1x Berserk
2x Damping Matrix
1x Coffin Purge
1x P. Deed
2x BEB
2x Stifle
1x Oxidize
1x Naturalize
2x Ground Seal
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Engineered Plague

My notes were kind of weak, but here's the rundown:

Rnd 1 - Ryan Donahue - playing EBA variant (WUB)

Game 1: He lays an early mage for tog and then drains my deed.  This game went very slowly with a slow death from mages.  I can't pull up a dryad to save my life.  He duresses and I mystical up yawg's win to try and clear things up.  He follows with a mage naming will then lays an angel.

Game 2: I lay an early tog and dryad and am able to protect them.  He lays a turn 1 maze though.  I get some beats going, but he's able to remove one of my threats everytime I get two on the board.  I deed away everything but tog.  Tog swings and he tries to maze it, I wish for stifle and he scoops.

Time was called as we are shuffling up for game 3.  We agree to a draw.

0-0-1 (1-1)

Rnd 2 - Keith Steinacher - playing R/G beats

Game 1: I mull to 5 and keep a hand that's decent, I force a turn 2 challice for 0 and clear the way for tog and 2 dryads for the win.

Game 2: I keep a strong hand, but no force.  He was unpowered so I didn't think it would hurt too much.  Wrong.  He goes turn 1, lotus petal, mox diamond, taiga into bloodmoon.  I scoop at 7 life when I can't find a basic Island or sapphire to BEB his blood moon.

Game 3: This went super fast.  I lay an early tog and start chipping away while countering his threats.  I have a full yard when he's at 15 and no blockers.  I show him cunning wish for berserk and he concedes.

1-0-1 (3-2)


Rnd 3 - Allen Cavaness - playing SUI black with racks

Game 1: He goes turn 1 ritual into Duress and Shade.  I get a tog out that plays defense, but he edicts it away and I can't stop the negator that follows it.  I take alot of damage from double "The Rack" and his discard.

Game 2: He has some serious land issues and I have an early 5/5 Dryad.  A tog soon joins it and runs him over for the win.

Game 3: We play draw go for awhile.  He can't get a creature out and I stop most of his disruption.  I go off in only the way that GAT can with almost every land in my library out.  I resolve a will that allows me to throw out the fastbond in my yard and gush in hand.  I have a Dryad in play that gets to about 9/9 when he concedes at 12 life.

2-0-1 (5-3)


Rnd 4 - Nick Woolery - the previously mentioned slaver sans shops
-notes are kind of sparse here, so most of this is from memory.

Game 1: He mulls to 6 and I lay a turn 1 Dryad.  It was over very shortly when I cunning wished for berserk.

Game 2: Turn 1 Dryad wins the day again.  Nick just had a really bad draw.

3-0-1 (7-3)


Rnd 5 - Chad Daughtery - playing Keeper

We ID and go search for food together.  We went the wrong way and could not find the Subway, so I gave up some of the granola bar I had with me.

3-0-2


T8 - Chad w/keeper (I'm 4th seed into T8)

Game 1: I keep a weak hand but try to power through.  He just has way too much counter magic for me to get through and 3 angel tokens take care of me.

Game 2: My hand is somewhat better (double dryad, but no green) and I decide to keep it, hoping I'll draw into something.  I never see a green source though and an eternal dragon starts beating down.  I end up dying to my own crypt.


Overall, it was a good time.  It was great to play in a T1 event that actually seemed rather strong for a change (I have little to play against around here).  This was the first event I'd tried GAT at, opting for it over my usual stand-by of dragon.  The day brought in 2 packs of Italian Legends (1 was a door prize) for my time and drive.  I did open them and the only thing of note was an Underworld Dreams.  Somebody who won a pack as a door prize did open a drain.  Oh well, should have sold mine.

I joined the others at rivals afterwards (where I felt like my skin was melting), splitting with Chad in a T1 pick-up game for the store credit prize.  

I'll also 2nd the FCG jackoff deck.  I didn't face him all day, but I've hit him at PTQ's in the past.  He's pretty much one of those 16 year-olds that thinks he's god.

If it already has a crease in the center, then it is more than likely a fake.  The presence of the crease in the first place shows that the bend test has been done before usually, and it also shows it failed.

This site is often good for spotting some types of fakes.

http://www.apathyhouse.com/mtg/fake/index.php

apprentice or Magic Work Station will allow you to connect to other players online.

Apprentice is preferred by many and can be found here:  http://www.e-league.com/forums/portal.php

I'm shocked you found a pawn broker who knew what the cards were worth.  Everytime I've stumbled across a collection in a pawn shop I find out that the store bought it with little knowledge of the game and either paid way too much or way too little.  Usually too much though, as people who resort to pawn shops usually give them a Scrye to estimate the value of the collection

the above is good, but I like this one as well:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=6384

I have two simple highlander decks that I haul around with me at all times.  They are unsleeved, full of commons, and two-colors.  I've taught multiple people how to play with them and usually try to keep them current with all the card mechanics that are T2 legal.

The most important thing to remember is to make sure you have decks that are matched in power level when teaching a new player.  Or, let them put the beatdown on you for a few games so they get those first few thrills of winning before you reel them in with the smackdown  

Play online.  That will be far more effective for teaching you what needs to be done with the deck to make it better.

If you have locals to test against with proxies, then that helps alot as well.  I do learn alot more playtesting in real life than I ever do on appr or MWS.

But with magic being a collectible card game, it is inherently influenced by this in the long run.  Obviously, Wizards cares about the secondary market to some extent, or we'd have been flooded with countless reprints of power and other T1 staples by now.

Those I hear complaining about restrictions are usually the people who are at a disadvantage because they don't have access to the big money cards.  They'd change their tune if they actually put up the money and got a few of the more pricey "restriction worthy" cards.

I'm Andrew.  Been playing on and off for about the past ~10 years (since high school).  I just recently started playing more competitively over the last two years.  Before that, it was strictly a casual game for me.

But, big tournaments are hard for me to come by, as I live in the wasteland of Illinois.  I'm about 1-2 hours from any major city and have no real organized scene to play in.  I usually have to travel a little ways to play or just settle for apprentice with friends.  Catch me on IM if you're ever up for a game.

I've played almost every archetype at some point in time.  My current fixation is dragon, but I'm itching to start playing slavery.  I lack workshops though, so control it shall be.

T1 is by far my favorite format.  I play T2 and extended, but that's mostly because those are the only events I can ever find.  I've done the PTQ scene a bit and never miss a pre-release.  So, chances are you can find me in either St. Louis or Chicago when one of those rolls around.