maybe add in Tormond's Crypt or Relic of Prog in the main deck too *for dredge*

I am testing alsmost the same build, with those changes:

-2 Gorilla Shaman
-1 Platinum Angel

+1 Chalice of the Void
+1 Tangle Wire
+1 Barbarian Ring


 I can not go under 4 Wires. This card is amazing against everything, and when combined with golem, spheres and smokestacks it becomes even more stronger. Also, a first turn chalice of the void  for 0 is better then a first turn shaman. Except by the fish matchup, i will always play chalice of the void for 0 against almost every deck. Shaman is indeed amazing (if I could find space, def i would add some), but you are already using chalices and null rods, so i think it isn't so needed.
  Also, with 4 golems, I don't think Plat is needed. You already have a fast win condition, and if you are fearing tinker, you can always add some Pyro/Reb on the side. But playing with 9 "spheres" effects in this deck, i think they will have some troubles to cast a tinker. Geting rid of a resolved tinker with a combination of wires and smokestacks is dificult sometimes.
  I am still testing this version and the MUD, but i think the fact of having welder and bazaar in the maideck, gargadon, pyro/reb and rack and ruin in the side, might make it a little bit stronger. One thing is certain......This golem is BEAST.

What do you people think of this?  I'm walking into an unknown low-power meta where I hear vague telling that there's a semi-drudge deck.  Will 4 Polluteds, an island, and a sapphire cover me for the ancestral?  Is 6 fetchlands with 6 swamps and a mox enough? I don't have a time walk or else I'd include it, same with underground seas.  I also wanna see what kind of non-basic land hate is being run before I dump money into the massively overpriced seas.  I cannot afford a lotus.  I need *general* suggestions for my other 7 sideboard slots.  Perhaps a pithing needle?  I went mostly with the original updated list as you can see, I just got back into magic after a few years.  I loved suicide, and I love seeing a possible top tier mono black or mild splash.  I cannot go the tarmogoyf route as again, I don't have the money to dump.  Is splashing *just* for ancestral worth it, with the dark confidants and nights wispers?  Should the whispers come out for something else?  I...I really dunno.

Creatures  (11)
4 Dark Confidants
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Vampire Hexmage

Sorcery and Instants (23)
4 Dark Ritual
3 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Vamp. tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Night's Whisper
2 Cabal Rituals

Artifacts (6)
3 Null Rod
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal

Lands  (20)
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
6 Swamp
1 Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawmoth
2 Dark Depths

Sideboard (8)
2 Jailer
2 Ravenous trap
4 Leyline of the Void

@whoever asked : It's not the fact that i don't own a lotus that makes me not play it in MUD. I don't own a power but i'm allways full powered when i play vintage tournaments (both proxy or borrowing power)

From my initial testings, the card is really the worst in 5c Stax, where you can't allow your opponent developp his board with mana accelerants in the first turns. Lodestone golem can't prevent this, so its not good for the deck. I lost a really high number of games because of that aspect, and i still think that both Thorn of amethyst and chalice of the void are better choices for a 5cStax Build.

It's alot better in BR stax, being nice in the Null rod slots (which i never liked in the deck anyway) helping to give a clock that can be revelant to win some games fast, i really loved the card in the deck.

But the card is really the best in MUD aggro, where 13 spheres/8 juggys make a really solid build, really consistant.

In fact, i tend to think that the card is really metagame dependant. Mainly depending on how fish is played in the tournament.

Wind Zendikon needs to be evaluated for the deck. It gives bazaar protection from strip, gives you a creature to sack for dread return and can recurr a Gemstone Mine with zero counters. It also gives you a way to cheat landfall with Gemstone Mine or stripped bazaar to get bloodghasts back.

I guess my issue is that you're going to win game 1 anyway, winning on turn 2 is irrelevant because after therapying them a few times on turn 2 they aren't going to win their one turn of topdecking 99% of the time. Having more disruption maindeck, say chain of vapors and leylines allow for more slots in the sideboard.

@jester3397
I've used with good success two tinker targets on my maindeck. I play with a Sundering Titan and a Sphinx maindeck. With 28 mana sources you can cast it in a lot of games, and you have not to worry about it pitching to fow or discarding it with Thirst for Knowledge.

Firespout remains my wepon of choice in 5cStax, with 2 dullpliquants and 2 razormane masticore.
I was testing rolling earthquake (which was too mana intensive) so i decided to go for the G sqplash just for the sideboard.

Razormane is a fine answer for Trygon.  Bazaar him into your yard and weld him in during your upkeep.  He shoots creatures during the draw step.

Well the deck that I actually took to the meandeck tournament had 3 moxen (pearl just to make ppl think it was 3 colors and as an additional mana source etc), and mana crypt, along with lotus/petal, along with the 4 nobles, which yes I do count on, but haven't been dissapointed with, no one forces a noble, and maindeck creature kill is at an all time low in vintage.  3 mana was/has never been a problem to reach, and realize, other than tinker, and them getting both key/vault out at same time, misdirection is a free "counter spell".  Misdirection a darkblast to a Confidant, or a welder or w/e, or a fire.  Also remember most decklists that play those spells play 1 of each, I play 3/4 of each of my creatures, and 14 maindeck counterspells, 6 being free, and 4 being 1 mana.  I don't really consider the deck "fish" because your right I have very lil board disruption, the deck, I consider, it as more like BBS, with the goal of stopping their first key spells, dropping a critter that then destroys their board (trygon) or something that draws (heretic/selkie)and countering anything that lets them draw cards or messes me up.  I usually only keep 1 creature on the board(I don't count nobles as creatures in this sense, they are more like lands that buff creatures), and just back it up with counters, instead of trying to "overrun" them with critters.  Another thing that is great about the deck is that I can pitch everything except lands, nobles and artifacts to Force and MisD, allowing me to play 6.  MisD is so good in this meta, and if your running white you can't have that extra "free counter" if you will, the card colors needed aren't there.  The only thing better than MisD an Ancestral is to MisD a thoughtseize when their last card is yawg win  

But yea the deck is very linear, and just plays well, and the only "thought" needed is "what do I need to counter?"  As long as you know the key cards in t1, its good to go.

example

turn 1, land noble, or land and jewlery, almost every time
turn 2 selkie, heretic, or trygon
force or spell pierce or mana leak something important, usually something important is dropped turn 2 or 3, t1 is not always a first turn kill we all know this.
turn 3 favor on w/e if you got it, either draw counters to protect it, or your smashing their jewlery/enchantments

that or you sit and stack mana and swing with nobles with counter back up til you get ancestral or a creature. The deck can go aggro or control.

most games I played if I got favor on a selkie or trygon, and had ANY cards in hand already, they just conceded.  Favor was/is amazing.  It can be cast for either of your colors, pitches to counters, and not only gives an evasion but buff's both hp and atk.  The only other card I would use over Favor, and I am not joking at all here, is Unstable Mutation.  Because its blue and 1 mana, and so what if it dies eventually by then you have drawn another 2, or won. Rancor is good, but still leaves them susceptible to darkblast and fire.  Also it's green and thus not pitchable.

You know how steve played with bolt instead of fire in his deck that got first.  Maybe it's not just for the new juggernauts, but because he knew I was playing favor over rancor?

As far as playing maindeck null rod and maindeck wastelands, I play strip because it is amazing, but I need my colored mana, need it, thus 4 breeding pool even.  I untap them for 2 life all the time.  Life don't matter once your drawing 4 cards a turn and on average 1-2 are counterspells, which happens more often than not.  Plus null rod would nuke my 3 moxen, lotus/petal and crypt.  Thats a 1/10 of my deck and almost 1/3 of my mana.
Maybe with that new green disenchant, I might "cosider" a couple null rods maindeck.  Since I can nuke them anytime for 1 mana and gain 4 life (that card is gonna be used by EVERY one).  Kinda sucks for me since it can nuke favor, BUT misdirecting them is gonna be fun.

Also talking about that new 1 mana disenchant, that resolves the pridemage issue.  1 mana instant disenchant, with life gain, which can be clutch at times.  

And of course there is the merfolk legend.  Getting her out turn 2 with force or misd back up would not be uncommon if you played 2 or 3 maindeck, and once again, she's pitchable.  Holding back cards is a good thing anyways, people get scared of the thought of counterspells.  They really do. But yes, pulling either their vault of key is game winning, but at worst she is gonna get you a lotus or moxen or remove random tinker toy.  Unless your playing dredge then you side the 2-3 of her out and throw in "random grave hate" etc.

Yes combo is a problem, but when combo gets a first turn duress, mox mox, ritual ritual ad nauseam who else can win?  If combo goes off it does, if it doesn't it doesn't, what I do 99% of the time doesn't matter, and that's true of many other decks than mine, no deck is perfect otherwise, t1 wouldn't have so much variation, and variations in top 8's everywhere.

Maybe I should sideboard Arcane Laboratory, and play true BBS lock style  

Anyways,

With those two new additions it makes the ug version not just more viable, but IMO, better than the GUW variants.  Who needs a swords when you can just counter the creature, steal it, or misdirect there swords to it?

Hey there. I am going to my first tournament this weekend and I was thinking of bringing dredge. I was curious, what version of dredge is preferred these days? What do people consider the "best" version of dredge? Yep, just looking for some advice before I go to the tournament.

Words of War is tech that Vroman used in some of his Uba Stax builds.  Basically, you want a stream of shocks against fish and this guarantees them.  It also "combos" with Bazaar to give you extra shocks.

I don't fully agree.
You need to prevent them to have Qasali/trygon predator active beofre you do to make it effective.

By winning with tendrils you kind of dont need to stay in the game...

Annyway, enough with the flaming (on my behalf, I just can't help it), since we obviously disagree.

Atm I'm testing the build with the maindeck leyline and helm, and have to say I like it so far... ichorid becomes a better matchup (however you still keep the sideboard jailers), tezz doesn't like this much must counters (okay here you obviously miss null rod, but you can win about as fast as they can unless they go broken, but then again, so can you), and the sideboard can easily be tuned to fight off shop and fish, and use the open slot's to nuke tezz if you think it's needed.

What would lead you to think this? Because you can't tap a mox/lotus that you steal with Thada? Please. That is not a good reason not to run her. Think of her as extra insurance against Tezz at defeating plan B (Tinker-->Robot) while also answering Time Vault. You really didn't back up your claim at all.

What shall I back up what is obvious? I also dont give examples for not playing Workshops and Mana Drains togehter in one deck. Null Rod shuts down most of the artifacts you are stealing with Thada. So with both of them you are using Thada more less like Rootwater Thief, which is also an answer to Tinker targets and Time Vault. And noone would ever think of running Rootwater Thief. And that IS a good reason to not run Null Rod and Thada together.

Yay, now an uncounterable crypt...

Bojuka Bog

Bojuka Bog enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add to your mana pool.
When Bojuka Bog enters the battlefield, remove all cards in target player's graveyard from the game.

Ok, now you all made me miss playing the deck, I'll sleeve it up for next tournament.

Back in the days, I calculated at least 1/3 of the games were won that way. That's why I don't really want to go below 10 creatures.

Stax is one hard matchup. It can lock you out quickly, even if your Trinket are golden here, they simply have too much cards that will kill the combo. In a Stax heavy metagame, I suggest adding at least 3 Fluxes in the sideboard, as simple Disenchant will not be enough. Serenity is another great option for it. Altough, with TV, it is probably way easier to get a combo out.

All depends on how bad you want it (power that is) .. get a job delivering pizzas for 4-5 hrs in the evening and in a week time you should be able to assemble enough money to buy at least a Timetwister if not a Mox Pearl.

1.  I've been in and out of Magic a few times, and I've been in and out of Vintage more than that.  Every time that I've been actively playing Vintage I've worked to get power and all the other cards that you need to play.  I've worked to have a collection where I could play any deck in the environment that I wanted to play - because I hate proxies and love playing the game.

Auratog and Phantatog are certainly interesting when you need outlets for "the eggs". Problem is, they are not good on their own.

Yes and no.  If they flip a permenant it helps them as much or more, however if they flip an isntant/sorcery  it doesnt help them in the least bit, plus when they flip an instant/sorcery you know what they just drew.  I never said it was perfect it is a suggestion.