somewhat true, i dislike cannonist for 1 reason its an artifact, it can be hurklyd and rebuilded, I dont wanna run null rod and cannonist and have all my storm hate get washed out by one fell swoop, meddling tendrils + null rod means they need 2 bounces ( granted they could have empty whatever)

I tested against fish and really if I resolved mage and they didnt run stifle GG.

Against tezz its pretty much who blows out who, they have much better blow out potential obviously but you can just go the aggro route if you have to and sacrement taking tinker target, vault or key, and tezzeret ='s scoop.

Stax can be rough, they can still lock you out as easily.

Notenough blue cards to run FoW was a problem sometimes,  honestly I would just try and save FoW blue card for when I nreally neeeded it, this list deffinetly needs adjustment.

no plays against oath, I dont consider dredge a concern because I run 4 leylines in every board even if i dont run black so they just scoop g2 if u mull agggresively and run blue(well almost)

no oath tests

Ohh I'm sorry, admin; I was unaware that this was English class.  I'm sorry sir, do I get an A or a B?  I must have been mistaken to assume the point of language was to get a point across and have it be understood.  

"I'm in 90%; I can probably make this." (Concise explanation of my probability of making it, simple enough)
"Is this at Damien's place?"  Is it at Damien's place? (Where is it? Damien's place, I'm assuming?  Also to the point)

So in short, I believe the one sentence rule was to prevent irrelevant commentary.  This both a had a point as well as a question.  So mom/dad/english teacher/admin, go fuck yourself.  How's that?

I'm not sure where you went to school, but I hope my taxpayer dollars aren't funding an institution that gives an A or a B as a reward for such abject failures to make use of the English language.  Furthermore, your point about "irrelevant commentary" does not follow from your preceding statements.  

More to the point, you've been one of the worst posters on this website for a long while, and just today you've violated almost every single rule we have with two posts.  So in short, you're banned for inability to communicate above the second grade level, repeated spam, flaming, trolling, and mod sass.  How's that?  -DA

i vote 4 events a year just make the prize pay out based on attendence with a decent top 2 lotus mox rest on attentendance etc.

sure i agree but i would still rather run 2 bazaars and 2 crops then 4 bazzars, + by running crop and citys of brass ets u can add balance, recall, and other broken shit

im in 90%I can probably make this. this damiens place?Is it at Damien's place?

Please at least attempt to use sentences and grammar.  -Eastman

you could also consider cutting some b/r mana for citys of brass and adding crop rotation/recall etc

goblins can actually be competative, burn cant

I ran the combo in a UB shell had good results
20:
4 polluted
4 underground
3 flooded
island x1
swamp x4
mox x2
watery grave x2

mana accel: 6
black lotus
lotus petal
dark ritual x4

Broken shit: 3
recall
walk
b storm

tutors: 5
imp seal
vamp tutor
demonic tutor
mystical tutor
demonic consult

Creatures: 8
vamp hexmage x4
dark confidant x4

Win conditions: 5
dark depths 2
Sadistic sacrement x3

Counters: 10
Force of Will x4
Spell pierce x4
misdirecetion x2

Disruption: 4
Duress x3

Anyone chicago/milwauke area going?

Oracle wording on oath is now target player, so true believe does shut it down, it also shuts down tendrils, however I still think meddlng mage is better and thats still often not good enough to play main deck

is it a proxie event, that would make it better 4 me, i have no legacy cards

ill go if we can get some people to agree to go, just dont wanna drive 3 hours for a 6 person tourney

thats more then enough blue cards 90% of the time

All this crazy oath talk and the damn lol's is making my penis soft! back to the danm dark depths and the crappy 2/1 talk!

2 a point yes, but on the other hand you have FoW in the wadthey may not, and you need 2 get yer draw engine online asap.

Ya your correct it became alot harder to compare then I origionally thought lol, but I think it made my point

As far as duress: Either they burn 2 cards.....IE force

or you take there crazy bomb.....
WIN!

I agree with alot of peoples points so I wanna run a sample excercise of BUG and Noble vs a solid tezz hand.
( i apologise if u disagree with the play order)

Tezz's hand opening.
Fow, Gifts Ungiven, sol ring, undergrond, fetch, Tinker, mana drain

Noble opener:  Hierarch, land x2, selkie, Fow, goyf, stifle

Assume fish on the play to be nice

Noble opens: land + hierarch
Tezz: draws voltaic key, plays fetch + sol ring.
Noble: draws null rod , plays land selkie and passes.
Tezz: plays land and could either bait or just go for the tinker,  plays tinker, selkie forces, tezz forces pitching gifts IMO gets fatty.
Noble: pretty much scoops, no tutors for outs (maybe 2 outs in deck and a mystical tutor) GG

Bug Fish vs Tezz with similar hand:
Tezz: Fow, Gifts Ungiven, sol ring, undergrond, fetch, Tinker, mana drain

BUG Fish opener (trying to keep hands and draws similar)
Land x2, fow, goyf, daze( often ran in place of stifle), spell stutter sprite, Duress

Bug: opens land duress Tezz Fow's pitching drain IMO
Tezz: opens land +sol ring after drawing volt key
Bug: draws null rod plays land and plays null rod
Tezz: plays land etc, but

granted the excersise may not be a fair comparison but I think daze + duresses's make a whole world of diffrence

Loam seems good against stax and maybe for waste repeating, but I just dont like any card thats not amasing no matter what within the confines of our strategy.

From my tourney experiances you either disrupt and beat and win or you dont.  If you wanna loam mana denial I guess that seems ok but your not running stax I just dont see the point. If you wanna really go the mana denial route then you may as well go 4 nulls, waste+strip , 4 stifles, and loam.  Then yer running a heavy mana denial deck not a moderate one.

So i guess either MD stifle and go denial or dont.  At least IMO

I like it as a 1 of for surprise factor.  In a control mirror its very useful.  If they dont see it g1 great you have a trick possible thyey wont expect. If you use it game 1 they have to play around it.  Running more then 1 just seems bad.  I dont know why it just does.

To a point I can agree with you but the last major tourney I played in (Chicago ICBM) was won by BUG Fish and UBW Fish

I have playtested all the vairaints of Blue fish and just wanted to see if others results weer similar.

First ill cover what the strengths/weaknesses of the variious builds.

Noble Fish/ GWU Fish:
Often has the heavyiest mana denial package with the full strip/waste package, 4 null rods, and often 2-4 stifles.
Also allows include of aven mindcensor which I consider mana denial as well.

They have access to some of the best artifact/enchantment removal and Goyf.

Honestly in my opinion the deck just seems to be lacking, not as much disruption, and witout black for draw/tutors it just seems to be lacking the oomph that bug fish has or the flexability and disruption that UBW has.

UBW:
Aven, BoB, vend clique and meddling mage tend to be the staples of this deck along with strip/waste null rod.  They run the tutors and flexability cards needed to dig for answers and can easily include d blast and edict for tinker targets.  It seems this deck generally has the most disruption.
Aven, meddling, Duress, Counteres, smetimes cannonist as well as suller.

BUG Fish:
I my opinion the strongest of the three.
U/B bring everything you need 2 utilise to disrut and the simple inclusion of goyf for power and artifact enchantment generally gives you everything you need 2 win.

I playtested all 3 and Bug Fish just seemed to have the most oomph.  UBW seemed to have as much disruption as it needed but a general inability to put a real clock on the opponent.  And noble/gwu just seemed not to have enogh disruption/tutors to dig itself out of holes. If others have diffrent opinions feel free.

I think its the best hard counter to come out since FoW, countering big cards for 1 mana is good.  Spell snares the only thing comparable but obviouslyu only mana cost 2cards.  I think I would deffenitely run it in Bug fish with FoW Daze and SS sprite.  Thats a prettty heavy counter package that doesnt eat yer deck away to run it. You counter that first ritual by storm, slow down tinker plays, fish/aggro has 2 keep dropping things even if they know you have a counter ETC.

1 Mana counters are just nuts.  Good times, I think it will see alot of play in all formats.

I may actually try and make it out there, lol anyone have a recall and a saph I can borrow?

Dont get me wrong ive won power with RGW fish/beats twice but that was because i thought it was a decent metagame choice and it was diffrent.  Im a fish player so I have a favorite archetype as well.  Was just curious, makes sense on alot of peoples points.

A solid ANTI tezzeret deck such as BUG fish with a heavy artifact hate board...

I have always had a question to pose to players of decks that often top 8 but very rarely win.

Case and point: ( Im sure someone will correct my data since its not official)
Dredge often top 8's, rarely top 4's, and almost never wins.
Stax/Shop: Does somewhat better but also realy wins.
Oath: The same.

It seems to me that why play a tournament to top 8, why not play something that wins.  Maybe its just the heavy Tezz meta in chicago where I play but it seems Fish, Tezz, and Teps are the only real contenders for first place wins.  Honestly, I wouldnt even count TPS unless Mr. Mike Solmosy is playing it as a common top winner in my area.  Granted this is all based on my opinion and observations.  So my question is why play decks that our unlikely to win but may top 8?

Personally the guys a scumbag , look at him and the d bags he hangs out with.  He doesnt give a shit about anyone but himself and pretty much every reputable member of the chicago comunity "in the know" will agree.  If i had the option of lifting a finger or watching him get hit by a truck I wholeheardedly would just wish I had my camera. 

I think it will see more play as a TPS mirror match SB card then anything else.  Honestly TPS seems best able to abuse it against Tezz or the mirror.

We don't expect dissertation-quality writing here, but please at least try to follow some of the rules of English grammar when posting.  -DA