I don't expect it to be a four of in any deck, but I can see any control deck running a copy or two.  Six mana is harsh, but its a really powerful effect, I suppose it will take some testing.

BTW, Seedtime was left out of the list of instant speed Time Walks (Conditional but lots of fun)

Remember when you played Sengir Vampire?
Remember when Timmy was good?
Remember your mom forcing you to sell back your revised starter deck, because its the devils game?
Remember the sense of joy when you get the Shivan from that deck you traded to a friend for a Serra Angel back five years later? (The only card saved from oblivion)
Remember forgetting to play during Urza's block and trying to catch up when you got back in?
Remember 40 card decks, because the local store didn't know the rules right?
Remember how merfolk and mono green beats owned those tournements?
And how you were the oldest, smartest best player being in the 8th grade instead of 6th?

Maybe some of these only apply to the midwest in small towns, but you know. . .

Heh, I missed the Sol ring on that list, sorry, must've glanced past it.  What about ancient tomb though?  Its fast mana to get artifacts on board, and is a land that isn't shut down by Null Rod.

The reason Null rod doesn't hurt an aggressive deck like this so much is that once the creatures are on board they just need to attack, whereas a Ravager needs to get pumped and a cranial plating needs to be equipped.

Sol Ring.  Ancient tomb.  What about those for more speed with the mana base?

Ok, here's an attempt a deck to abuse future sight, just in the first stages of developing. . .

Draw/tutor:
4 Future Sight
4 Trinket Mage
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Enlightened tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm

Disruption:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Balance

Kill:
3 Brainfreeze
3 Retract

Mana:
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
5 Colored Moxes
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

Ok. . . so here's the basic idea of the deck- Get Future Sight in play- this is quickest and easiest accomplished by using black lotus or lion's eye diamond.  Two and a blue should be fairly easy for the deck to get to through the use of a mox and ancient tomb, or Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, ect, which will bring up the Lotus (or Diamond if the lotus is already used) and generate the UUU to lay future sight on the table.
Once this is accomplished the deck plans to filter through as many cards as possible by playing all the 0 and 1 cast mana artifacts off the top of the deck, using the mana to play brainstorms or other spells to further manipulate the top deck and build up a massive storm count.
The end kill comes when, after playing 5-6 cheap artifacts and a couplke of draw spells a retract is played, returning all the artifacts to hand to be played again.  Follow this up by a brainfreeze for the win.

I choose white as the splash color because Mystical tutor allows me to get to the future sight easier, and the synergy between topdeck tutors and future sight.  I figure the sideboard will include swords to plowshares, but I'm not sure what else.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated, thank you.

You need Mishra's workshops. . . I just thought of this last night for some reason, because I like the deck in extended a lot.

Also, my choice for the win condition i think is going to be the visions card Magma Mine, that way I can run as many artifacts as possible.

The ideal play is: Turn one, workshop, Metalworker, turn two- tap worker, reveal voltaic construct magma mine and one other artifact add 6.  Play construct, then add mana to 82, play Magma mine, add 20 counters, kill.
 That's turn two, which is slow for combo, but I can't think of a good consistent way to give the worker haste, maybe lightning grieves?

I dunno, I'll work on a decklist.

Jester's Cap:  I played a mono brown deck that sideboarded this card, but at the time in the metagame it was about 85% Psychatog decks, not Gro-a-tog, just psychoatogs, and they almost universally ran 3, not 4 psychatogs.  Also, doesn't 4 color control run 2 angels and a 2 decrees?  Knocking out three of their 4 threats might be worth it, dunno though it may just be too slow.

Duplicant: Duplicant is amazing.  I use him in welder decks all the time because he just takes out creatures left and right, if what you're worried about is a big threat he's great.

Maybe another SB card could be Masticore?  Again he can remove pesky creatures that NEED to be removed.

I was wondering if anyone was clear on the interaction between this card and Yawgmoth's Will.

I played a game where I had it in the sideboard and wished for it when I had the will in hand at end of turn, then cast it and the will on the same turn.  I believe this allows me to play spells from my opponants graveyard, but it might be a bizarre interaction (are these two seperate replacement abilities, of which only one can take priority?)  

Thanks.

On another topic related to this deck: Have you considered Jester's Cap for the sideboard?
If it goes off a combo deck is pretty close to having to scoop.

I need a little help getting my semi low budget Type I deck running, and have been looking for a deck to use that can handle control, combo and aggro and uses the money cards I have to their best effect, so here is my current scheme:
 
 Win:
 4 Triskelion
 3 Arcbound Ravager
 4 Goblin Welder
 
 Control:
 4 Counterspell (though ideally these would be mana drain)
 4 Force of Will
 
 Draw:
 4 Skullclamp
 4 Myr Servitor
 3 Thirst For Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
 1 Memory Jar
 1 Frantic Search
 1 Wheel of Fortune
 1 Windfall
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Tinker
 
 Mana:
 4 Seat of Synod
 4 Great Furnace
 4 Volcanic Island
 2 Mishra's Workshop
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Mana Vault
 4 Windswept Heath
 
 The basic idea of the deck is to get out a triskelion, clamp him up, swing then pull off the counters and draw the cards, weld him back in and repeat.  Pushing counters onto the triskelion from the Ravager is also a secondary plan.  The Skullclamp is meant to be the primary draw engine, with the Myr.  I have the 2 workshops and the volcanics, and the ancestral already, but have only about 50-100 dollars to finish the deck in the next few month's so I'd like to keep any more expenses for it under that.    

As far as matchups go, I haven't been able to playtest against anything but 4 color control (the only other player with any power ONLY plays control.)  Its a tough matchup, and Wasteland really hurts this deck.  I think I like the ability to run Force of Will to help win against combo decks, but I need to test it some more.

The obvious additions are subbing in moxes and the lotus, and the mana drains.  In 5 proxy I probably need the saphire and the Mana Drains the most, though I am hopefully working towards getting a mox in the next couple of months.  Do you think Lion's Eye Diamond would work in this deck?  What about Ancient Tomb?  I also considered Intuition in place of one of the draw spells.

 Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.

The answer is obviously to kill the null rod.  With a deck that runs 3-4 colors (I've never seen a white affinity deck), you should be able to come up with something.  Oxidize is my personal favorite since it costs only 1, but whatever works for you.

I've never seen the deck play so I can't say.  Just thought it might be a way to abuse the abundance of artifacts in the deck.

Metalworker?  With so many artifacts it could be a serious mana engine.  What about Myr Incubator?  I dunno. . . I play mono brown sometimes, but I basically play it as aggro (workshop, metalworker 2nd turn Darksteel colossus, swing.)

What about glimmervoid to allow the splash(es)?

Admittedly I haven't submitted any of my type I decks here because I haven't gotten any of them tested and running well enough to be able to write an intelligent write up.  On the other hand I posted an extensive write up on a type II build on about 4 different forums, with analysis of how it did against the major archetypes of that type and got no feedback except "Just play ravager instead".

I think the appeal of rogue lies in that people want their own ideas to work out.  I mean, in the end I, and I assume others who like to play rogue don't want to say "I made a good build of Trinistax and rode it to the tourney win" they want to say "MY decdk won the tournement."
[/quote]

O.k. . . I heard somewhere that there was a Survival for artifacts in fifth dawn. . . I somehow doubt it, but I've definately heard of this supposed 1u casting monstrosity that is inevitbly aiming towards banning/restricted if it is true. . .
BUT if such a card does exist its turn two or three you can establish the lock with a welder (Of course now you have no hand ostensibly)
You'd need to follow up with an artifact that puts cards into you're hand instead of drawing cards, and possibly a pentavus so you can sacrifice the tokens instead of real cards (and weld them back into stuff that ends up in your yard.)
Just an idea, based on some cards I'm not sure exist yet.

The problem is this:
It takes so much effort to develop a ropgue deck worth playing.
I've been trying.  I've been trying pretty hard to come up with one.  In the end, I finally get to-gether a card list, and put the thing to playtested and either do o.k. or get owned.  When I do o.k. I feel like I've suceeded, but I have a hard time getting the thing tested against a wide array of decks.
When I finally get it working, or semi-working, I find that NO ONE will give me imput on the deck.  They seem to have the attitude "It's not a deck I've heard of, you can't possibly be a good enough player to make a good deck on your own, why not run (fill in the blank) instead."
This happens with the people I play against, and EVERYWHERE online.

What's the solution?  I don't know.  I think it would be very helpful for people who like to play rogue to develop decks in teams, I know having oone other person committed top making a deck work would be very helpful to me.

It really depends on the deck I think. . . I mean TnT alrewady has the welder in place, but could pssibly throw in a few Artifact mutations since it already runs Green/Red.
In Tog, or any other 5 color deck art mutation wins again.
In sligh?  It has to be mono red- so it has to be Shatter if you want instant, or perhaps Rack and Ruin, ect.  Gorilla Shaman I suppose will end up ruling because he does it repeatedly, but I think Shatterstorm may even be effective here.
Stompy?  Oxidize is the ONLY choice.  Running that few lands anything costing more is not an option.

Oh yeah, and for moxen removal there's Karn.  He rocks in TnT or a workshop deck because you can blow up moxes for one mana anytime they hit the board.  Useless against artifacts with casting costs other than 0, but that'll clear up a decent chunk of stuff.

Ugg . . . 7 mana. . . . may as well be Soulscour. . .

I think the main problem with this card is that White is not the top Artoifact using color- if you want an artifact based deck you'll go with blue and red far before you add white. . . I tested a white/artifact deck a while back and while having Swords to Plowshares was nice, in the end BLue or blue/red was MUCH better.  The fact that both it, and the ways to get the artifacts into you're graveyard are for both players means that, in the end, its not a type I card most likely.

the joy of Time limits:  Win the first game, then stall.  If you don't finish game II you win the match.  If he concedes to try to get through the game when you start subgames, you have life advantage, making the win so much easier!

I suggest using a stsis/lockdown deck for the build- possibly just running the shaharazad's in sideboard for after you've won game I.  I dunno, I like the idea of using Zur's Weirding after they've conceded or lost a subgame and just not letting them draw cards with the life advantage you gain.

Thank you!  The only tutor that belongs near this deck is Tinker, and the only card it should tinker for is skullclamp or ravager.  Memory Jar is slower than mud!  Why not run workshops?  I mean, worst case 1 shop, one ornithopter, and there's your frogmite?

The best 1/1 for the job is the artcbound worker- you clamp him, draw 2 cards and make you're Ornithopter bigger (or ravager if you have him).

Anything that is a fatty and or the Goblin Welder just slows the deck down.  In the end the more focused you are, the more you will win.

By the way- Genesis Chamber is terrible.  WHy test a card that has been ruled too terrible to use in the type Ii version of the deck here?[/quote]

I built a bizarre combo deck based around this, Ensnaring Bridge, Stasis and Zombie Infestation- and when it worked it was amazing.  BUT it was too complex a combo to try to get around the falws of the card, and way too slow.

Counter Prodigal! I'd forgotten that powerful archetype (can I say this witha straight face>?)
By the time of mirage it mine looked like this:

4x Prodigal Sorcerer
4x Zuran Enchanter
4x Suq'Ata Firewalker

4x Counterspell
4x Powersink
4x Force of Will
4x Memory Lapse
4x Arcane Denial (I used this card. Yes, I was not thinking well)
4x Brainstorm (How I knew this was good considering the above mentioned Arcane Denial I do not know.)
4x Howling Mine

Man . . . countering any non creature spells while slaughtering any creatures to hit board with 12 prodigals and killing one ping at a time was so much fun.

Does this deck run enough fast spells to play this>
Another idea- get the combo out, then use it to Compulsion through and playh a Future Sight. .  that will let you play through all the spells you could possibly need to pump up the storm. . . if you get stalled out by a land, compulsion it away and in desperation burn the compulsion to draw a card.  .  . since you have INFINITE mana no reason not to stock that singular Mind's Desire as a "win more card".

In the end, your right, I don't know how this deck will stack up to rector trix, since I've not playtested it (haven't had time since the preview was released. . . that and my only worthy type I opponant in my hometown doesn't play rector, not his style.) But I think its obviously worth a shot.[/quote]

Why wouldn't intuition be worth it?  If you have the Auriok dude in play and you pick black lotus, led and something else good no matter what they do you only need two mana to start off the combo.  So I guess if you can generate 5 mana in single turn, with him in play you can win.  

Admittedly there are less possible combo pieces than with Dragon (where in there are like 3 possible enchantment ressurectors) wheresas here you need this dude and lotus, but the combo is a bit more reliable in its play (against dragon if they remove dragon while the remove from play trigger is on the stack you're done, well at least until you get around to setting up the combo, whereas here if they remove a piece from play, or the yard, you just trigger the ability in response). . .

I dunno, I like the idea of it, but I'm not sure how well it'll work out. . . Compulsion may be useful? Two mana to filter through cards to hit you win condition. . . 2 being the magic number that floats one and all. . .I bet  you could make this deck run only 2-3 colors, which is always a good thing- Perhaps white, blue and green?

  That gives you the essential pieces, all the power of blue (lets be honest almost every type I deck has blue in it) and creature fetch from green. . . . if you run worldy tutors and or living wishes (with one Auriok in the board) you're effectively running more copies of the guy.  Running intuitions, fabricate, enlightened tutor pumps up the effective number of lotus, while a mystical tutor can get you the fetch you need for either piece on two turns notice (or a draw card). . .

The question is, what kill card to use?  I don't know of a good one of the top of my head that isn't just a copy cat (laquatous, ect.) . . . I think it would be intensely cute if there was a kill card that used white mana, I don't know why, but its just an idea. . .  Leonin Sun Standard? It costs two and then like 3 to activate I think. . . so you reuse the black lotus to gain a million mana, make the auriok a million/million and 2 and swing . . . having used compulsion to cycle through for a berserk. . . heh, just an idea.

If you go with that you could intuition for berserk, black lotus, lion's eye- they have to give you something other than the berserk, which either gives you the mana to start off the combo with the LED, or else just lets you start out with the lotus.  Heh, if they give you the berserk you just need two mana to get going.

Just some random thoughts. . .

Its probab ly best in a land destruction deck. . . just strip over and over again. . . run it green/blue so you have artifact and land fetch, splash white for fetch to get to the fastbond more readily.  Strip mine every land in they play.  Win the game however you want.

I think the detractors of this format are just whining.  5-Color is ridiculously fun.  If you get 4 of your friends to throw to-gether decks you'll find yourself playing a lot of cards you otherwise simply cannot play (because they aren't legal in anything but type I, and aren't fast enough to be competitive there.)
Whining about dexterirty cards?  Come on, there're what, two of them in print?    Both of which are restricted in the format?  How many games do you expect that singular Chaos Orb to hit the table?  Yes, Falling Star is a nightmare of mine too- all my 3/3's are dead because he flips better than me!
The banned.restricted list is that way for a reason- anyu card that tutors os excessively powerful in a format forcing you to run more than 250 cards in your deck.  True- they have missed some stuff (leading to the brokeness of Quiet Speculation in the format, and the ability to search for any land with Reap and Sow and Sylvan Scrying whereas crop rotation got the big restriced bullet), but that just gives the games more unique kick.

There're lots of options for 5-Color deck construction!  Like tons!  Some of my favorites include:
1. The all black deck.  Uses black duals, and the tainted lands (if you've got a swamp, they're duals) as its mana base.  Runs black cards, multi-color black cards (like Mundungu, never thought he'd see play) and things that help out black cards (the Familiars that make black spells cheaper.)  This one is a lot of fun- just because its 5-Color, but all you're stuff is black.
2. Proteus Staff- Proteus staffing into play a Darksteel Colossus or Serra Avatar is a lot of fun in a 250 card deck.  Nightsoil is so good in the deck too- remove their graveyard creatures, while giving you Saporlings.  With space to run close to 80 removal spells in a deck,and with Reshape being un restricted this one is cute, if nothing else.
3. Any tribe that has cards of all colors- lots of fun to use wizards, or clerics (Storm Shaman, the red cleric!) and put to-gether ridiculous sets of dudes that have never seen play to-gether before.

Here are my top three reasons to play 5-Color:
1. Timmerian Fiends- taking moxen for Homelands cards is an invaluable joy.  Even if you're playing casually and don't keep the cards at the end of the game, that look on your opponant's face is priceless.
2. Divining Witch is broken.  In a 60 card deck use it more than once you're probably decking yourself to death.  
3. You play all five colors.  You play 250 cards in your deck.  What is not to like about a format that offers SO many options?

My final word on the format is to say this- I will forever consider anyman who can consistently win in 5-Color with a decking deck to be the King of All Magic.  Consider it a challenge.

What is 3cb?

This is the deck that OWNED my meta game in 6th grade (like 1995 or so).

4 Mons Goblin Raiders
4 Goblin Chirugan
4 Goblin Baloon Brigade
4 Goblin Hero
1 Shivan Dragon

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Goblin War Drums
4 Goblin Warrens
4 Orcish Oriflamme

20 Mountains

Just a little blast from the past for anyone who started playing magic in junior high and remember this type of deck.  You played goblins.  You attacked, and got pumps from the oriflamme and goblin war drums.  Then you goblin grenaded them,  lightning bolted them and incinerated them.  If you made it to a "late game" You either ran them over with Warrens produced tokens or flew over their head with Shivan Dragon- the scarriest creature of all time.
I know the deck has no competitve potential, but there will always be a place in my heart for the "combo" of Mon's Gobln Raiders and Goblin Grenade.

Stunted growth.  Of you can get to the mana for it, putting cards ontop of library is devestating, and its one of the few control effects green has.

Heh, if tog is the ONLY deck you're worried about, stock Confessor. . . .they only get half the graveyard to pump him with.  Course tog is never the only deck you're worried about,a nd confessor is not really playable in virtually any other circumstance, but he was part of a riduclous combo deck I used to have, which sadly never worked out (combo came to-gether way too slowly, but when it worked, it was a thing of beauty.)

If you end up running clamps and empyrial plate, then Auriok Glaivemaster could become a very good choice in the deck.  If you want to run the empyrial stuff, then Skullclamp is an even better choice because it will put cards back in your hand.