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1  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [article] i hate this place on: April 25, 2004, 02:51:38 pm
I am not here to rain on jpmeyer's parade. "I hate this place" is a great article. That said, here are a few things on "Rotations:"

In Standard, cards rotate out. That's it. Never play with them again. In Vintage, they don't. That's it. Play with them at your own peril.

jpmeyer's point about old sets being reduced to just a few cards is true. New cards come along, and make old cards comparatively less efficient. Whole decks are wiped out this way. But look at Bazaar. Squee (and some decks) made it a $100 card instead of a $20 card. Same for Mishra's Workshop.

These cards existed before deckbuilders figured out how to use them the way we all use them today; they existed before the designers printed new cards that pushed them over the edge. Can you play Workshop in Standard? How about Bazaar in Standard?

To come at this another way: Force of Will was good the day it was printed. If Force of Will was reprinted, it would still be good in Standard; then it would rotate out. Elvish Spirit Guide, however, is just now seeing resurgence in Vintage because it speeds up decks. It was always there, but new cards and more sophisticated deckbuilders made it playable.

I'll admit, no tournament Vintage deck is going to run Grizzly Bears over Wild Mongrel, but Magus of the Unseen "rotated" in; you never know.

's and "s fixed. Please don't paste straight from MS word.
-Jacob
2  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Serious Suggestions on: April 15, 2004, 09:55:02 pm
Quote from: InsaneScrub
For creature control, I am starting to like Rushing River or Seal of removal, cause once it's in play tog has to answer it, or it can't just dump to tog.


Instant speed bounce might work once, but after that, the tog player will *counter* it or force the tog back out and kill you next turn anyway.  If you still like the idea, cheaper instant speed bounce leaves more of your mana open to force it through. Curfew bounces the tog for U, for instance.

Seal of Removal is interesting because the tog player has to deal with it, but really you just fight the same counter war over it as you would anything else, or, more likely, the tog player entices you to use it by pumping enough to be dangerous and then forces the tog back out and kills you next turn.

Try a few games with bouce against tog and you'll see what I'm talking about.
3  Eternal Formats / Creative / The return of... BBS on: April 15, 2004, 09:31:57 pm
If it's a blue pile of counters and drawing, it can certainly give some decks problems....

That said, can you explain your card choices? Have you tested this against anything yet? What do you lose to with your current build? What do you crush?
4  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / A Way Out of Mana-Screw on: April 13, 2004, 09:47:50 pm
Quote from: Necrologia
Well for starters, people would probably run at least 1 of each basic their deck runs heavily.

I can also see this breeding a new form of combo. Current combo decks run something like 10 five color lands. It'd probably be possible to trim the mana base down to just 5 basics and go nuts from there, never having the risk of hitting a mana clump. Alternately they could keep the same number of lands they run now and go crazy with Fastbond.

Making a solid mana base is one of the hardest things to do. Though it's not quite as hard as it used to be thanks to fetchlands, taking out an entire part of deck design just doesn't seem like a great idea to me.


Many decks already run at least one basic land to fetch under a Blood Moon or when staring down a Wasteland.

I’m not convinced a combo player would skip a land drop just to cut a few lands from his deck. Going crazy with Fastbond is no easier under this rule because it only allows one pitch and search per turn. So while they could pitch, search, and play the land with Fastbond, that’s where it would end.

I agree with you on the mana base issue, but even the best designed decks can face mana-screw. Color-screw is a different issue altogether, and I think that’s what you are talking about. Is removing a card from the game and missing a land drop enough of a penalty to allow a player to get the color they need next turn?
5  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / A Way Out of Mana-Screw on: April 13, 2004, 08:51:33 pm
Once per turn, instead of playing a land, a player may remove a card in his or her hand from the game and search his or her library for a basic land card capable of producing mana that shares a color with the removed card.

For example, if a player removes a blue card in his or her hand from the game, he or she may search his or her library for an [card]Island[/card]. As another example, if a player removed [card]Sliver Queen[/card] from the game, he could search his library for any basic land because Sliver Queen’s casting cost includes all colors.

This rule offers a mana-screwed player a strategic way out (instead of the “topdeck” method), but it is not so good that it makes certain cards obsolete ([card]Land Grant[/card], [card]Natures Lore[/card], [card]Eternal Dragon[/card], etc.).
 
If this was a “rule” what would happen to your decks and strategies?
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