Even though it doesn't synergize with Null Rod, Time Vault is disgusting with Reejery

Thanks for the reply!

I see what you are saying about Cavern of Souls. I think it is pretty clear that Cavern and Gushbond will not work together. Thus I could perhaps see a UBR storm deck that makes use of Cavern, is that what you came up with as well? Would you mind posting your list?

I am absolutely willing to test it, but I'm worried that losing the explosiveness of the gushbond engine causes the deck to lose a lot. Often times you can play a guttersnipe and win that or the next turn pretty easily.

My stax matchup, as you said, is not the best, but it is not THAT bad with the 10 dedicated slots. Against stax my boarding plan looks like this:

+ 3 claim
+3 grudge
+1 trygon
+1 mountain
+1 forest
+1 ingot chewer
+1 thrun

-3 probe
-3 preordain
-1 yawgwill
-1 lava dart
-1 wheel of fortune
-1 guttersnipe

Been playing around with Guttersnipe as a win condition in a gush storm list.

I'm sure the primary concern people will have with this list is the vulnerability to guttersnipe. I agree in a creature (and thus removal) heavy meta, you probably just want a stock tendrils list, but as people are straying from BSC and oath and jace control decks start dominating, I think this could be a pretty good meta call.

To protect Guttersnipe, Gitaxian probes and duresses allow you interact with removal spells, as does the counter suite.

I like snipe to tendrils because he beats down, answers jace, is insane in multiples and allows you to play the long game over many turns, something tendril decks could not do before.

My list:

4 Guttersnipe
2 lotus cobra
1 Snapcaster mage
4 fow
1 fastbond
3 preordain
ponder
Brainstorm
ancestral
Time walk
3 gitaxian probe
4 gush
Vamp
Demonic
Yawg win
Wheel of fortune
Lava dart
Thirst
Gifts
Noxious
Demonic consultation
2 duress
1 spell pierce
Island
Mox Ruby
Mox Jet
Mox Saphire
Mox Emerald
Black Lotus
Lotus Petal
Sol ring
mana Crypt
2 sea
2 trop
2 volcanic
4 misty rainforest
2 scalding tarn

SB
3 nature's claim
3 ancient grudge
1 trygon predator
1 ignot chewer
1 mountain
1 forest
1 thrun
4 leyline of the void

Why do you guys like the straight UW better than UWB? Is it just consistency and jace/drain combo? Bobs and tutora have been really good for me. And the mana has been a non-issue. I also like graffdigger and more trinket instead of trinker+BSC. What are the inherent strengths/weaknesses associated with either list?

why? between tinker, vamp, demonic, trinket mage and the card draw, its pretty common to just nut someone. Also all the combo pieces serve multiple roles.

As of now, my post board configuration has 3 basics (with 5 fetches), 2 steel sabotage, 2 serenity, 1 disenchant, 1 hurkyl's, plus incidental cards. I could easily see this combination of cards beating STAX. Maybe it does not, but it deserves testing instead of theorizing to come to that conclusion.

If red is truly that much better than white against STAX (which I'm not convinced of yet) then I could see a UWR version with basic mountains post board.

Love the idea of serenity. Changed the board: -2 disenchant -1 salvager +2 serenity +1 hurkyls (MD -1 drain +1 salvager)

Having played bolt a lot in Vintage, I have come to like StP a lot more. The ability to answer blightsteel, gravetroll, gristlebrand, and larger creatures makes it the better removal spell IMHO. The comparision you make to UBR is interesting. I was actually playing UBR until I altered it slightly with the modifications above. I like having another combo in the maindeck, so when games go long (which the usually do), you can just drop a cavern and salvagers and get them.

I play both, which has been awesome. Tinker can get you the key, vault or lotus if you need to win on the stop with salvager, but I also believe every blue deck should sport tinker+blightsteel. The random games you will steel greatly exceeds the games it is awkward.

You can say, that Auriok brings the whole Trinket package with it and how great this package is, which is somehow true. But it is not, that you didn’t cut other very effective cards to find space for it. Mainly UBR Confidant control plays extra counters, Snapcaster, Hurkyls, Jaces, stuff like that. Most of them are Instants which is an advantage over the Sorcery speed of the Trinket package. I would generally say, that artifact solutions are more clunky than instant solutions.

I actually think Trinket Mage helps the STAX matchup a lot. Instead of having durdely counterspells, having a body that comes down and finds a sol ring/mana cryt/lotus can be huge. Even in other matchups, the trinket package has been insane. As you mentioned, finding the Nihil Spellbomb against dredge, oath or dragon is very important. Finding EE against creature decks, oath or belcher is also very good. Post board, Trinket Mage becomes even more versatile, with the various hate pieces that come in. If you have any suggestions for better tutor targets, let me know!


It seems to be pretty standard to be moving away from Mystical. As the counterspells get better (misstep, flusterstorm, more emphasis on drain) mystical becomes a greater liability. I can appreciate its ability to randomly steal games, but with another combo (permanent based at that), I did not see the need. Perhaps it can be worked in. And perhaps you misread my list, but I do indeed play tinkerbot.

I will concede this deck has an extreme weakness to Null Rod and Stony Silence. It is something we must figure out. And I do understand that all three primary win conditions are relatively vulnerable (bomberman, tinker, vaultkey). However, note that this deck is primarily a control deck. I often sit back with a bob or library and just play the permission game. Maybe the first 2 or 3 attempts to win are disrupted, but with your insane amount of card advantage and permission, you don't need to win the game in any timely fashion.

All in all, while it has many similarities, I think Bomberman is distinctly different (and better) than UBR control. Also, check out my sideboard. I've been wanting to play lingering souls for a while and think this deck really takes advantage of it. It is a powerful tool against landstill and fish decks that UBR can not harness. If you have any suggestions as how to better the STAX matchup, I am all ears!

I could not find a thread for this, but if I glossed over one, Mods feel free to move this post to that thread.

I'm really liking how bomberman fits into this current metagame. This deck has a lot of control elements that allow to it to stabilize against a large field in StP (with snaps to back it up), trinket mage (for Spellbomb and EE) and the standard jace/drain package. However this deck also has a lot of consistency in closing out with games with Salvager or Vault key. Another essential element to the viability of this deck is the unique sideboard. Trinket Mage allows the silver bullet artifacts (graffdiggers, needle and tormods) to be much stronger in their respective matchups (Oath, Dredge, Gristlestorm, etc) and lingering souls seems insane against fishy or landstill decks. The stax MU might be tricky but with disenchants and snaps, along with basics, it shouldn't be that bad (lingering souls seems passable). Let me know if anyone has any critiques, thoughts or insights into the new and updated bomberman!

2 Auriok Salvager
2 Trinket Mage
2 Snapcaster Mage
Blightsteel Collosus
4 Dark Confidant
4 Force of Will
2 Swords to Plowshares
Vamp
Demonic
Ancestral
Brainstorm
Nihil Spellbomb
2 Flusterstorm
1 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
Thirst for Knowledge
Time Walk
Yawgmoth's Will
Tinker
Time Vault
Voltaic Key
Engineered Explosives
Sensei's Divining Top
Jace the Mindsculptor
3 Tundra
3 Sea
2 Island
Tolarian Academy
Library of Alexandra
Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
Polluted Delta
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Mox Jet
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Mox Saphire
Mox Emerald

SB
Tormod's Crypt
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Steel Sabotage
Pithing Needle
1 Disenchant
2 serenity
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Lingering Souls
Plains
Hurkyl's Recall

Is anyone going to be slinging cards tomorrow afternoon?

Dudes-

What time does vintage start tonight? Depending on the time I may or may not be able to make it.

The problem I see with Cage is that if it is your only piece of dredge hate in play (AKA you didn't draw leyline) it is not disruptive enough by itself to fully slow dredge down. It is acceptable in decks where you have a fast clock because it only stymies their progress and the few turns it buys you are enough to win the game. Since we our route to victory is through permission, manlands and jaces, the few turns that cage stalls the board is not enough to win. And in the situations where you have both cage and leyline, you already have a leyline, so you are winning.

In my opinion, If you only have 4-6 slots, the best way to beat dredge is load up on leylines and cards that serve other functions in other decks (Surgical Extraction, Cage, Mistep, ect) to complement your main route to victory: Leyline. On the contrary, if you have 7+ slots, you have more options and can use cards that while on their own don't beat dredge, once you achieve a critical mass of them they do. For example a Graddigger's cage will not beat dredge. But a grafdigger's cage, a mental mistep and a tormod's crypt almsot assurdely will. Jailer may be to slow, but with a turn one spellbomb or ravenous trap to slow them down, it will get there.
Another benefit to a mutlifarious board with 4 leylines and 4 silver bullets is it doesn't give them the oppurtunity to play around you. Like if they play around cage and lose the jailer, ect.

This deck is overall insane. I'm pretty sure it is the best deck in the format. Think I am going to start playing it. Is there any single cards, or particular strategies that are particularly disruptive or hard to combat?

oops did not see the post on the Tournaments Announcements page. Awesome! See you guys there!

Haha luckily I have seen enough of those to get the general idea of what they look like 

Unfortunately, some last minute stuff came up and I wasn't able to make it. My apologies if that messed anyone up. Looking forward to saturday though! What time does this thing start?

Stopped by the store today and it actually was open, so I got to get a sweet cube draft in. I can definitely be there this tuesday! What time do these tuesday tournaments usually kick off?

Hey guys! Is there still vintage on Sunday? If so, when? Looking forward to meeting you
Guys

Awesome! Thats great that you guys have such a both diverse metagame and player body. Vintage used to be popping in Colorado, but now our biggest tournaments are less than ten people, who are mostly new to the format. It will be sick to battle against some fellow vintage devotees!

I leave for Boston tomorrow, so I don't think I will make in Tuesday night, but this sunday or next Tuesday would be perfect!

Hey dudes!

I'm coming from Colorado to Cambridge for an internship this entire summer, and would love to sling some vintage some time! I'm super

Do these tuesday night tournaments seem to happen every week? And also generally what is the Boston metagame? Here in colorado its all goofy fish and stax decks....

Super pumped to find new people to battle vintage with!

Hahahahaha I wanna be there for that! This is shaping up to be an even better tournement than when Steve ate deprives. Super excited for this!

I will be there!

Sorry I couldn't attend due to prior commitments! When are we going to get our november tournament on? I have been infected with the vintage bug and need my fix!

Good Job out there buddy! You deserved that win!

that was a super fun tournement!

heres my quick tournement report:

Round One -TPS
Game one: He mulls to 5 on the play and never really had a shot. I thoughtsiezed him a few times and rode a bob to victory
Game 2: I keep a loose hand and about turn 3 he starts going off. My hand is 5 lands, a force and goyf, with no pressue and awkward lands in play. He rituals a few times then casts demonic, I start to get ready to pick up my cards. He gets yawg will and casts it. After a few more rituals he has 5 in his pool. He demonics with 3 left (storm is like 15). He looks through his library for a few minutes and after a while just concedes. Awkward. This taught the valuable lesson that you should NEVER concede in a game of vintage.

Round 2 - Dredge
I am super excited because I have infinite dredge hate (4 leyline, 3 jailer, relic, needle)
g1: I waste his bazaar early and after a few turns of dredging a troll, he gets there. If I ripped a creature earlier I think I have a shot.
g2: I feel smug as a I keep t1 bob with leyine and force backup. I play the leyine and bob and pass. He plays a undiscovered paradise and passes back. I reveal a jailer of bob and draw another bob. Here is where I make the mistake of playing the second bob. From there mister bob takes me from 18 to zero in a zero fast amount of time. The ironic part is the only way I was going to loose that game was off my own bobs.

I am kind of frustrated, but some good pizza is enough to get my head back in the game

Round 3 - spicy crop rotation oath
g1: I get locked out of the game by waste effects and eventually oath tutors up some big fatties.
g2: We trade resources and go to top deck mode fast. I top deck lands then creatures.
g3:  I stick an early bob and ride to victory.

Round 4: Old School Noble fish (Daze + Stifle)
g1: He gets stuck on lands and my massice goyf makes short work of him.
g2: Again he gets stuck on lands and I feel bad sowering his tarmogoyf the turn before I win. My opponent was an extremely nice guy and I felt bad winning on such a low level.

round 5: The bubble round. SCV
g1: I get an early trygon and there is a sequence where he starts wheel of fortuning, time walking and digging. I counter his yawgwill and his wheel draws me in to force x2, peirce x2 nul rod, lands. I play and protect null rod FTW.
G2. He nutted me out with an early tinker
G3: He nutted me out with an early tinker (AGAIN) but being a nice guy and a team member, splits with me so we are locked for t8.

t8 - STAX
I thought this was a bad matchup so I am kind of worried.
g1: I thoughtsieze him and take his only gas. He rips tinker for some dumb robot and races me (That damn card)
g2: He keeps a loose hand on the rational that he didn't see what I am playing game one and his only purpose for this game is info. I play some duders and there is a key turn were he rips tinker (!) and casts it. I spell peirce. Had he played a different land he could have resolved it.
g3: A play an ealy bob and take him from 20-0 with it. He had double shpere and kept complaining about his draws, which is no way to win. But I will take it.

Between rounds Golenda mentions I got extremely lucky to win while keeping thoughtsiezes. apparently against STAX that card is trash.

t4: BoYu with STAX
g1: I am on the play and drop a land and pass. He drops a turn 1 Trinisphere (which I force) followed by lodestone. There was a turn where in response to Tanglewire I could have flashed in vendillion which trades with Lodestone, but I am to demoralized to see it.
g2: On the play I go lotus, land Trygon. Seems good.
g3: I think I had a solid chance, but Mr. Yu has on fire , and nothing was going to stop his rampage through this tournement. I forget this game but He probably played some dumb robots and killed me.

Me and danny split 3 and 4th. Getting $36 each which is still pretty good. Afterwards we all went out to dinner at The Draft and had some good times.

Props:
Carl for hosting. Coming down to game with you guys is always a treat!

Slops:
To tinker, for ruining every single game it resolved.