@Zelc

so thats 9 of any color that you want. Plus moxen and lotus makes 11 of possible cards to get the right color. With academy its makes 12 for blue.

I run 3 colors in stax B,U,R and i almost always find that I have a wide color variety but not as much aceleration as i want.

My mana base looked like this  before
4x City Of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
1x Glimmervoid
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
4x Workshop
1x Tolarian Academy
5x Moxen
1x Lotus
1x Crypt
1x Vault
1x Grim Monolith
1x Sol ring

The first change i made was adding an extra glimmervoid taking out 1 gemstone mine for It wouldn't die turn 3. Next I deducted 1 more gemstone for a tomb. Now i'm testing taking out the monolith for an additional tomb. Which worries me a little but i see how it pans out later.

Ancient tomb I believe is an great card in stax. Letting you pump out  1st turn trini with a mox in hand leads to better consistancyoverall. Although do people consider the mana base to be to thin of color, disruption, or whatever.

I find that Ancient tomb is a better first drop than shop with a mox in hand. I settle with 2 damage rather then let my shop get wasted the turn after i drop trini.

For people who find that color is a problem I have to say this. Every thing in the deck is 1 colorerd mana...  I would gladly take out a gemstone or 2 for 2 tombs.

Not only this, but it also optmizing draw whether your using Meditate or Thirst. EX 1st turn tangle wire(Yeah i know its bad) second turn tomb, mox, meditate or wheel. Making a normally bad play into a great one. (I know its out there but it could happen)

Anyway what are your idea's about  Ancient tomb should it be included, how many, what should be taken out, how it will affect concistancy in draw, mulliganing, speed, whatever?

its habit for me i didn't even run them in me wtf build. They are to mana intensive, but i put them in for people won't post about "Why not try conclaves".

@yodoblec & nataz The thing with drake is its dead 2nd and 3rd game aganist oath. Once they side in thier angels drake doesn't do anything. So your thinking is probaly to side them out, which then you thin out your creature base for differnt hate cards.

@nataz Beloved chaplin is more for the aggro shop match up then the stax or oath. Here is a shortend list of what your facing taken from  - Philip Schmitt

4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Trinisphere
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Juggernaut
4 Su-Chi
3 Razormane Masticore
4 Goblin Welder
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lava Dart

Now after that you don't think Chaplin would annoy them a little by blocking a 5/3 jug or 4/4 Su-Chi turn after turn until Masticore hits. Which is the only way to remove it maindeck. Also notice the amazing number of trample creatures. I think it adds up to ZERO .

The name of the game with fish is to stall and Chaplin does this well. Is it great, no but it is good enough to try.

The more i think about it the more I like the tech of beloved chaplin-(To moderators i know this should go in a seperate topic but i think the people reading this topic would appreciate this more Thanx)--It vastly improves the workshop aggro match up, or at least makes them dig for a creature destruction card.

I really think this deck has potential, let me take a look at the two biggest threat in the meta right know. Which to me are stax and oath. (This is all based on my build that i posted before in the article, but for convenience here it is again. updated

3 Aether Vial
4 Meddling Mage  
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Standstill
3 Voidmage Prodigy
3 Beloved Chaplain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
4 Curiosity
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Seal of Cleansing/Daze/Misderection
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
1 Strip Mine
3 WasteLand
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Plains
2 Island
SB:
4 Aether Spellbomb
2 BEB
2 Stfile
4 Serenity
1 Swords
2 Echoing truth

Stax- The threat of first trini is always out there and theres nothing you can do but force it. By packing wastes to stop there shops for the turn after trini hits hurts them just as much if not worse then they you. That is do to the fact of man lands Having a mishra swing on turn 3 after 2 land go turns gives you a small advantage.(Very Small, but take what you can get people) Also naming key cards like crucible or win condition like karn, trike, or welder for meddlig mage is a severe blow or a life saver in the case of crucible. Plus if you run Seal of Cleansing main deck which i would in a major tornament means amazing protection from smokestax, wire or whatever. Also having an amazing sideboard if i do say so myself to completly wreck them with serenity (arguably better then flux, because the lack of it being Reb) Toss in the echoing truth to slow them down a turn and we have a good match.

Oath- This is were if meddilling mage resolves it means game over for mean deck oath :lol:. Ain't that B-E-A-UTIFUL. Also having 4 Force of wills 3 swords to plow shares , 2 seal of Cleansing, and a partridge in a pear tree. ( that deserves a 10 in my corny rating system) After board you got to anticipate that there siding in the angels so board in the spellbombs for Iridescent Angel and also win Pristine gets turned sideways also echoing truth for b2b . Swords I would even debate taking out but maybe leave 2 in to dig for if needed. Also with deck you can just about out race an angel with token man lands and the tech beloved chaplin.

Now that the articl has come full circle what is your ideas on the deck and do you think it has a chance?

Thats why there would be two reclamation in the deck so if one gets forced you still have another chance(don't say what if they have two counters because any combo would just about die to that.)

besides you run in your build anyway so what are talking about?

Yes I agree with daze but only if he adds at least 4 wastes effects. Misderection is a good idea, but leak is bad with only 1 or even 2 moxen.
Also i think your over looking the fact he has 4 void mage and meddling mage that he can drop at instant speed with vial.

RULES QUESTION: If mage is dropped in responce to a spell being cast naming the spell that was cast does it resolve.


Yes this is horrible maybe try that 2/2 dog from kamigawa or Beloved Chaplain pro creatures can block some big fat.

4 Aether Vial
3-4 Meddling Mage (depends on my rules question)
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Standstill
3 Voidmage Prodigy
2-3 Beloved Chaplain(depends on my rules question)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
4 Curiosity
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Seal of Cleansing/Daze/Misderection
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl  
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
1 Strip Mine
3 WasteLand
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Plains
2 Island
SB:
4 Aether Spellbomb
2 BEB
2 Stifle
4 Serenity
1 Swords
2 Echoing truth

@Freelancer dropping a curiosity on saprazan heir is a way draw no matter
what. Thats the only reason I suggested it.  Mono blue fish really has no chance in a meta full of stax and oath even after board. Also i thought of it as a worse standstill for a deck that needs it.

since this is combo why don't you go for the win with krosan reclamation instead of blessing oath your entire deck stack the deck timewalk yawgmoths will and win. It seems to be way more consistant

why not try

Saprazzan Heir
Power/Toughness: 1/1
Casting cost: 1U
Card text: Whenever Saprazzan Heir becomes blocked, you may draw three cards

I think its at least worth testing

also it looks like you never win the first game is there anyway to remedy that? Otherwise in each matchup you board in 6 hate cards. Which seems very versitile.

i still don't get the witness+ robber combo would someone please explain it in more depth.  thanx

Here's the answer I sent to the person who actually PM'd me to ask that question:
You go off normally (bazaar and dragon), generating a little mana, and milling most of your deck. Then, you get witness to end the loop, and get back an animate effect. You reanimate dragon again, and witness now gets back a card each time you go through the loop. You get back the necromancy and put robbers into the loop, and kill them with it.

Alternatively, you can use witness to go off with time walk if you're running blue. Just break the loop by reanimating a squee, cast time walk, loop again, repeat, to build up infinite turns. Then kill them with witness or hardcast dragon (off a lotus). Getting back your whole graveyard with witness makes winning pretty easy.

Next time, think before posting. Verbal Warning.
-Jacob

Great job and congrats on the mox.

"Use it well my son"

1 question though
why the spawning pits ? It seems theres not enough creatures in the deck for it to do any thing. Or was it just secret tech for the oath match up.

thanxs that just makes the deck the much better.

a reason for people not playing the deck (at least in my meta)is out of respect to other players, because of the fact its so easy to play.

When i started i played budget dragon with rituals. and it won me the stuff i needed to play in a fully powerd enviroment week after week. Upgrading to fish(HA, at least in the eyes of my friends) upgraded my statis of a newb to a true t1 player.

Stax is a deck that takes little (almost none) thougt to play which is not what we try to do , but instead improve are playing skill.

NO !!!!!!!!!!

Meditate gains 3 extra cards not 1 in hand 1 in the grave.

also meditate is usually a second or third turn drop at best. you want to establish some form of lock down before dropping it.  Putting down a smoke stax or trini first turn with a mox or 2 sets you perfectly for 2-3 turn meditate. Which ends the game just about there.

If staxs gets going there really is no way to stop it meditate just seals the deal and end the game.

also a rules question that at my local meta were not so sure of does the staxs player stack the abilities on each players turn.(example. you have a smoke stack and a tangle wire out both with counters on them who gets the choice of whether they tap then sac or sac then tap.)  I think the stax player does on each players turn, not each player on their own turn.

Do you think the lack of back 2 basics decreases the sideboard power enough to take out the black of the main deck or does DOA still your motto.



What have you found to replace daze?

is your deck only 4 proxy
Verbal warning for spam. This post is complete garbage.
-Jacob

Akroma/Spirit Oath has tremendous the abilty (If you don't think it has already) to shift the meta drasticly.  Mean deck oath is so versitile and conforming to each individual game that it really has no bad match up in THEORY.  Its able to handle all types of decks Which will be put in groups of combo, aggro, and control further down.

      Oath owes its consistancy to its draw engine and mass protective spells. The Intution/Ak engine is perfect for this deck.  Being able to AK for 3 or 4 then have them shuffle back in for you to do all over again is amazing. Alos AK and Oath could't have better synergy, Oath up an angel put blessing on the stack then AK for 2 or 3 or 4 how perfect is that.

      With protection Me and a freind have gone back and forth seeing if counterspell should replace leak. I said that it should stay because its 1st turn mox, land counter. His argument is that what if he paid the 3. I've only been caught in this situation once or twice before saying that i whish i had counterspell more than mana leak.        


COMBO

14 Counter spells Do i need to say more.

Dragon dies to oath for multiple threats,  in the main and in the board.
Main deck blessings mean 1st game loss for normal dragon builds.  After boarding in Ground seals it seals the the deal.(pun intended)

Belcher dies from 1 counter not just 14 that reoccur themselves boarding in platinum and energy flux puts belcher as a good match up for oath.
(not Counting the random brokeness)

Tendrils I'll assume that was the poit of arcane lab in the side after its large showing at waterbury.

Combo is a pretty easy win for oath being mostly a contol deck it just gives combo no chance to win.


AGGRO

Aggro is a hard match up for Oath to win if a oath isn't dropped on turn 3 or 4.

Fish- I pitty the fool

Food chain With any control deck 1st turn lackey is a pain.  Has the most possible 1st turn counters but its still a pain if it resolves and theres no oath in hand. A first game loss might happen and there really no sideboard besides arcane lab if you want to prevent the combo but mulliganing into an early oath is a good play for this situation.

Workshop Agrro- workshop  trini go STINKS its such a pain for any deck Its even harder when there running seal of cleansing main deck. This is where back to basic rocks also showing the true power of energy flux.

Madness and affinity are jokes against oath and affinity is just a joke in general.

Control
also a difficult match up but should be able to out counter and resolve an oath for the win.

TOG- oath beats its very consistantly being able to out counter. Needs not to board but if need be control magic will do very well. Also i believe that AK should stay in because the fact your runnning 4 intuitoin rather than the normal tog running 3.

GAT- Close to same thing just more creatures and counters. Is oath really worried about MORE creatures, i don't think so.

4cc- Don't let swords resolve... Thats pretty much the game plan.  You can easily out counter them and block and angel if need be. Pristine and back to basics comes in and you win.

Slaver- With no anwser to welder i took Jacob Orloves build and added a Hydra to my board for an answer. Ground seals come in and win the game.


         Now that I've anylized most decks for you Don't you think that mean deck oath should be considerd THE DECK for 2005 and if so what can we do to stop it.

I had the idea of put 1 or maybe 2 togs in an oath deck with no blessings.

Positives
+ Frees up card space in deck for yawgmoths will, wishes and regrowth
+ Most likely a win the turn after you oath
+[b] Absoulty broken yawgs will plays[/b][/u]
The down side

-very vulnerable to swords (but what oath deck isn't)
-need to have a wish, regrowth, yawgmoths will to win
- most likely need a main deck beserk

like everyone else said you really should run crucble

Also try running impulse over brain storm

Mind's Eye
artifact
5 colorless mana

When ever an opponent would draw a
card, you may pay 1 if you do draw a card

To me this card is extremly broken but it gets rarely played. I've seen some builds of workshop slaver run it, but I've been testing in drain slaver and its been helping out a lot.

This card shines in the 4cc match up and in the fish match up. Now There engine becomes your engine plus there first draw. I can't see why this card isn't played more often.

Really think how this card could help you in those close games.

Don't you find that energy flux to be slightly off the mana curve which when i played wtf it hurt.

Also This build is very similar to mine so i would have taken out 1 boa for a fire/ice main and even another 1 main deck is a good idea because of the meta of fish/slaver. I would take out a daze for the other fire/ice and take 1out of the board for oxidize or somthing.

Also what was the prize structure for this event what did you win.

annul is a great card choice for the meta right know. you never know when a annoying little oath of druids will pop out and kill you right, but there are 2 problems with it.

1st annul is only a 1 st turn counter because second turn fish should be tapped out out. You must remember that fish is a aggro deck not control.

2nd the reason not to board them is fish has way to many choices in its board all ready (Rebs,Bebs,Rack and Ruin, Null rod,Energey Flux, Maze of ith,Fire/ice,Sword of fire/ ice, sigil of sleep) So many choices And annul just can't compare to racks and energy flux.

mono black dragon is hard to pull off splashing a color has to be done.  In my old (budget) build i even had 4 color dragon with no white at all.

Black was for animates,Buried alive ,Dark rituals ,Duress the normal stuff.  

Blue was for draw (no counters) Ancestral, Walk, Careful study.

Green was for the board Xantids, Deeds Win you so many games its not even funny.

This was my little twist on the deck throwing in red for one card SHIVAN HELLKITE This card is the best win condition for dragon, no questions about it. Gets rid of pesky platinum angels and other goodies they have on the board, not only that but its very good to animate by itself in the fish match up.

The 4 color mana base is hard to maintain but not all colors are needed in every match up. Knowing what color to go for when is based upon your hand mostly but also your match up.(EXAMPLE) Going for a laqutus kill aganist a active welder is stupid as well as pointless. Then you realize that beats from an angel kill you. Or if R/G beats gets a quick start enough to get you down to 3 or so by 2-3 turn(Hey its possible).All your win are  to slow say if he has a bolt in hand.(I know this is pushing it but this exact thing happened to me)Hellkite is a life saver...

This is why i play wtf bacause boa alone gives me the upper hand in this match up

actully there were 7 oversized black lotus and 1 real one im still a little curious what else was in top 8 besides
stax
dragon
slaver x2
wtf (me)
madness
mono blue control

i haven't be play fish for long(about a week), but i here all this stuff about Curiosity being a draw engine but i found it weak in my very short experience.  In this short time though i won a lotus by siding it out almost every game

My logic behind curiosity is that this deck is aggro control so most of the time my thinking was out curiosity for mutation which has both factors of control and aggro

as for standstill over brainstorm i played the deck like a fish player should dropping an early standstill and giving small beats with the first turn drop or man lands then get card advantage and then controling the rest of the game

in the main deck

sigil is better in the mirror matchup as well as in the 4cc match up everything else fish can beat straight out