Zherbus did something like this a while ago, and put it up on the front page, but I can't locate it anymore. You might want to ask him if it is still up or not.

If you've got combo with FoW and aggro out there, why not play Ravager? Its fast enough to race combo and definitely aggro, but because it has an aggro element, it isn't really stopped by FoW. The only thing you would have to worry about it is Null Rod and Gorilla Shaman, which don't seem that prevalent in your meta.

Would you rather have it be "COK?"

May I suggest Imprint?

Nitro Elves: Likely strictly superior. Check it out .

Well, I did decently well for my first time in about 25 3CBs playing. With the amount of LD on the banned list, I thought LD might be pretty good. Phantasmal Terrain is tech, although Sinkhole would have done just as well.

I like it as this simple format. I think it would be good to do it again.

--Tempe

It doesn't seem like many new conclusions were made, but it was still a good read and article. I have had a deck a few cards off yours for over a about a week and a half. I haven't really been working on it because I found it to be too vulnerable, as with most new combo decks, to Force of Will and Null Rod, one of which is in almost every viable deck.

Some suggestions include scrapping lands for more artifact mana ([card]Talisman of Dominance[/card]?), [card]Helm of Awakening[/card] (infinite mana with 2x Retriever and Ironworks), [card]Myr Incubator[/card], and [card]Goblin Charbelcher[/card]. I also used Artifact Lands and [card]Thoughtcast[/card].

--Tempe

Purging the opponent of game-winning cards is better than hoping for a game-winning topdeck yourself. If you're Wishing for it, you'll likely need to use it more than once (say, to nail 2 Mindslavers or 2 Squees). Not to mention you can rewish for it.

--Tempe

If I knew he had a Force of Will in his hand, I would likely mulligan mine, because if he counters anything (like the Tinder Wall), you're dead in the water. You would need a hand that has at least 2 threats in it, and this one is an extremely vulnerable 1 threat hand. If he did not have force, I would likely go ESG -> Tinder Wall -> Sol Ring -> Chromatic Sphere -> Demonic Tutor (Lotus) -> Lotus -> Wheel of Fortune to see what I could get., while hopefully screwing up my opponent's hand.

--Tempe

Plunge is synergistic because it can be used as a sacrifice outlet, a tutor, or both. But as the person before me said, Trying to Plunge for a single donate while rectoring out Illusions is probably not the greatest idea. You _could_ run into it or a tutor for it, but you may not, leaving you in a not so good position.

--Tempe

Tog vs. Control Slaver? As two of the most popular decks, its bound to be one of the most common matchups.

Interesting article as well.

Apprentice Patch.

--Tempe

For non magic related netspeak, look them up on the Wikipedia. For instance, Pwned or Internet Acronyms. Thank you.

--Tempe

Even though Compulsion may be more consistant or give you better draws, Demonic Tutor will just let you win. Its the 5th card for every one of your 4 ofs, and is in almost all cases necessary in any deck sporting black; especially a black one.

You have really kind of destroyed some of the decks inevitability, one of the reasons to play the deck over other decks. Squee was necessary because in the midgame it would allow you to be gaining card advantage from Bazaar and Compulsion. I really don't see much of a reason to be replacing a strong inevitability card with a slow "jumpstart" card. Intuitioning for 3 Squee is just as good, because you are likely to have either a Bazaar or Compulsion in hand or out.

I'm curious about what your goldfish speed is? With all of the slow drawing and control elements, it seems you have significantly slowed down the deck. Its looking more and more like combo-control.

--Tempe

If you're not going to use Standstill, at least use Brainstorm. Just using Curiousity is not enough.

Ironworks probably has good uses in Belcher (or [card]Myr Incubator[/card] with artifact lands) and in a new combo deck with Skullclamp. Can we get a decklist for what you were using? (If you don't want to post it, could you PM me?)

--Tempe

With no deed you lose to random stuff like Meddling Mage on Cunning Wish. 1 deed maindeck is almost mandatory.

I'd just like to say that with Belcher as the Benchmark, and it being almost impossible to beat it in speed, you'll have to add some defense. Almost clearly that means 4 Force of Will and 12 other blue cards to support it. Thoughts are 4 [card]Thoughtcast[/card], 4 Brainstorm, Ancestral Recall, Timetwister, Time Walk, and Tinker.

--Tempe

I'm not really worried about mulliganing here. The basic point is to just pick 7 cards out of those 60 randomly, and see how much mana they generate. And no, I'm not using Unglued .

--Tempe

Its less that I am so strict about conditionality that I don't like Channel, but that I am doing a test to see how much a deck that is completely mana generators can generate on the first turn. So, obviously, in a deck with all mana, Songs of the Damned will do nothing, as will a lot of other cards.

Note, this means no draw of any kind. Once I reach 60 mana producers, then I may take this further.

--Tempe

Well, I was really just curious to see how much mana one could generate in a deck that is all mana. I dislike Belcher for being such purebred combo, so I would never play it. However, it is the deck that got me thinking about it. The premise of this deck is just to generate as much mana as possible on the first turn.

You guys have been a big help, although most would require playing against an opponent who would do something or playing with land. Channel the Suns is a good one to add, and Cadaverous Bloom could also work.

Ok, I'm opening it up to land cards as well, so [card]Tolarian Academy[/card], [card]Fastbond[/card], [card]Cadaverous Bloom[/card] and [card]Squandered Resources[/card] are probably good.

I'm not sure whether adding basics (islands/swamps) and then using Natural Balance and High Tide/Bubbling Muck would accelerate my mana or just slow me down. It would require fastbond to work well, I think. I'll see.

Any other ideas?

--Tempe

I don't know how I could have missed that one . I thought I added it. Thanks.

Note that my definition of fast mana means that it has immediate returns of more mana than used to cast it, so [card]Eladamris Vineyard[/card] would not work, nor would [card]Thran Dynamo[/card].

--Tempe

Recently, I've been on a quest to see how much fast mana I can cram into a single deck. Currently, I am up to 34 non-land fast mana cards, with 19 different cards. Here is the current list:

4 Cabal Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Tinder Wall
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Channel
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Grim Monolith
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

Is there anything else I'm missing, or is this truly all of the fast mana we have? Note that I don't want conditional fast mana like [card]Songs of the Damned[/card]. Thanks in advance to anyone who helps.

--Tempe

The thing about running less than for Night's Whispers is that you can't expect to consistantly cast it in the first two turns, which is important because thats when Whispers holds the most value over other draw spells. Unless you are substituting those slots with another cheap draw spell (and I don't know of much else better at that CC), then you'll be losing out on some aggressiveness.

I never really payed a lot of attention to the life loss issue. I compare using Whisper and Scrying to using Necro. You're trading one point of life for one card. It is still definitely in your favor to do this, and in my limited testing, it has not made much of a difference. Either I would have lost regardless of the 4 or so life lost, or even with it, I didn't lose. Besides of which, you really don't get a chance to lose much more life than that. GAT should have killed aggro by the time you could cast that much of your draw.

I'm curious to know what you think is the card that is "out of wack" in your testing? Unless of course its secret tech to be unveiled magnificantly at the next tournament .

--Tempe

Against the majority of decks, Predict has a very slim chance of actually hitting and giving you card advantage. Countering the card-disadvantageous tutors is not enough to put it anywhere near the reliability of the other draw engines. On the note about FCG, most FCG players should know by now that stacking 4 Ringleaders on top is almost always the best thing to do, so as not to get screwed by counters.

I think which draw to use comes down to how fast you want to kill. Whisper lets you draw first or second turn, and then counter while you beat down. Every other draw engine can be slowed down if you are forced to counter spells, so they end up being more of a control draw after you have emptied your hand rather than an aggressive draw, basically boosting your initial hand size up to 9 or 10.

I'm not expert on the new GAT, but I do know that the old GAT was really aggressive. Not to say that this is as aggressive, because it clearly can't go off as fast, if at all, but if GAT can't be aggro, then there really is no edge over Hulk. I would run with the speed and no-liability part of the deck, and run Night's Whisper.

Of course, you can always mix and match, since 4 cards that draw 2 are really not enough to completely supply your deck with cards. [card]Pulse of the Grid[/card] was a really cool late-game choice I saw, but the UU in it makes it difficult to cast at some points. Skeletal Scrying is a more appealing late game choice, because it requires very few slots and can fill up your hand later in the game, which is where I would want it. It can also cycle early if need be.

Therefore, I would probably go with 4 Night's Whispers and 2-3 Skeletal Scrying for draw.

--Tempe

The Artifact Replenish. Useful? Yeah! Broken? Probably not.

This is a really huge come from behind card for any artifact deck, but the fact that it is an expensive white card will really limit its uses. What can we do with this card?

[card]Mesmeric Orb[/card] was a really cool idea to get extra artifacts into your graveyard, and I tried using it with Replenish a while back, but it didn't work as well. Its an artifact, and with all of the artifact acceleration, you'll have a lot of permanents to untap. Then, on turn 3 or so, you could reclamation out about 15 or so artifacts and just win right there.

--Tempe

Will an [card]Ambush Commander[/card] turn a [card]Tropical Island[/card] into a 1/1 Elf? If so, does it have summoning sickness? If so, does that mean it can no longer tap for mana the first turn it comes into play as well? Thanks in advance.

--Tempe

Why are you animating a Ghoul and removing the Dragon, when you could just animate the Dragon and win?

--Tempe

Technically, the chances are greater to get mana clumps if you excessively shuffle. A tip is to make sure all of your mana is split up in the deck by looking through it, and then riffle shuffling it a few times. You won't know the order of the deck, but the mana will be sufficiently spread out.

A note here is that if your land isn't clumped, pile shuffling may make it worse. The solution is to riffle when your mana isn't clumped, and pile shuffle when it is clumped.

--Tempe

MTGNews' Group 'Make a Deck' a.k.a. GMAD

This was a creation of mine a long while back, and it has taken off. If you want to continue doing this, I suggest you at least look at what we've been doing. (Note: I'm Kheoinn on those forums)

--Tempe