Hello everyone,

I'm new to the format, just recently learned about it, but I've been a Vintage player for many years and played some Legacy too in recent times.

I happened to like the Commander format quite a lot, and decided to build up a 4/5 colours control deck, my favourite archetype since the old The Deck / Keeper.


The deck is aimed at 1v1 mainly, not much interested in multiplayer.


I've choosen my general based on the idea of playing 4/5 colors (red being the one almost completely avoided for lack of good cards), and I took Cromat as it is a much better finisher and control element compared to the other options, even compared to Child of Alara, who is just a sweeper and not a decent finisher. Cromat in particular:

- Flies, blocking flyers and avoiding blocking ground armies
- Destroy creatures he combats against even before damage are assigned
- Regenerates, avoiding many spot and mass removals
- Can pump itself to a 3 turn clock
- Can unsummon itself to the library to avoid a more expensive recast or tricky removals like Faiths Fetters, Condemn or Control Magic

..but anyway, it's not vital, as he's just a possible way to win the game, not the main one.


After a lot of refinements, I've tinkered this list:
//GENERAL: 1
//MANA: 35+11=46
//COUNTER: 12
//MASS REMOVAL: 7
//SPOT REMOVAL: 6
//DRAW: 7
//MANIPULATION: 2
//TUTOR: 4
//RECYCLE: 4
//CREATURES: 4
//CONTROL: 7

//TOTAL: 100

// GENERAL
1  Cromat

//LANDS: 35

// BASIC LANDS: 6
2  Snow-Covered Island
1  Snow-Covered Forest
1  Snow-Covered Swamp
1  Snow-Covered Mountain
1  Snow-Covered Plains

// FOREST/ISLAND
1  Tropical Island
1  Breeding Pool
1  Misty Rainforest

// FOREST 8
1  Savannah
1  Temple Garden
1  Bayou
1  Overgrown Tomb
1  Taiga

1  Verdant Catacombs
1  Windswept Heath
1  Wooded Foothills

// ISLAND 8
1  Tundra
1  Hallowed Fountain
1  Underground Sea
1  Watery Grave
1  Volcanic Island

1  Flooded Strand
1  Polluted Delta
1  Scalding Tarn

// RAINBOW 4
1  City of Brass
1  Reflecting Pool
1  Rupture Spire
1  Grand Coliseum

// UTILITY 6
1  Kor Haven
1  Academy Ruins
1  Volrath's Stronghold
1  Strip Mine
1  Wasteland
1  Kher Keep

// MANA RAMP: 8 + 3 = 11
1  Sol Ring
1 [DDE] Coalition Relic
1  Darksteel Ingot
1  Thran Dynamo
1  Gilded Lotus
1  Grim Monolith
1  Mana Reflection
1 [PTR] Mirari's Wake

1  Cultivate
1  Kodama's Reach
1  Skyshroud Claim


// COUNTERS: 12

//CC < 3
1  Force of Will
1  Mana Drain
1  Counterspell

//CC 3
1  Forbid
1  Voidslime
1  Hinder
1  Stoic Rebuttal
1  Dissipate

//CC 4
1  Cryptic Command
1  Mystic Snake
1  Mindbreak Trap

//CC > 4
1  Draining Whelk


// MASS REMOVAL: 7
1  Damnation
1  Wrath of God
1  Day of Judgment

1  Hallowed Burial

1  Austere Command
1  Akroma's Vengeance

1  Oblivion Stone

// SPOT REMOVALS: 6
1  Condemn

1  Mortify
1  Putrefy
1  Bant Charm
1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
1 [JGC] Vindicate

// DRAW: 7
1  Skeletal Scrying
1  Fact or Fiction
1  Blue Sun's Zenith
1  Opportunity
1  Stroke of Genius
1  Mind's Eye
1  Future Sight

// MANIPULATION: 2
1  Sensei's Divining Top
1  Sylvan Library

// TUTOR: 4
1  Demonic Tutor
1  Vampiric Tutor
1  Mystical Tutor
1  Enlightened Tutor

// RECYCLE: 4
1  Eternal Witness
1  Holistic Wisdom
1  Crucible of Worlds
1  Yawgmoth's Will

// CREATURES: 4
1  Tidespout Tyrant
1  Ethersworn Adjudicator
1  Memnarch
1  Steel Hellkite

// CONTROL: 8
1  Spitting Image
1  The Abyss
1  Maze of Ith
1 [ARB] Identity Crisis
1  Spirit of Resistance
1  Declaration of Naught
1  Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1  Pithing Needle
SB: 1  Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1  Moat
SB: 1  Debtors' Knell
SB: 1  Sacred Ground
SB: 1  Story Circle
SB: 1  Karmic Justice
SB: 1  Harmonic Convergence
SB: 1  Iona, Shield of Emeria


The main idea is having a deck with very few creatures, to gain virtual card advantage from the useless removals my opponents almost certainly run. The few creatures I run must follow these rules:

1 - being a general utility trick (the body is just a plus): Mystic Snake, Draining Whelk, Eternal Witness

2 - having a good body to be able to play the role of finisher, but at the same time having some powerful abilities that (as long as they are protected by counterspells), can let them control the board and win on their own. This role is perfectly accomplished by creatures such as Tyrant, Memnarch, Ethersworn Adjudicator and (partially) Steel Hellkite (which is less of a winner but it's still a very strong control element)

3 - possibily being immunte to the Abyss, which I like to tutor for quite often (most are artifacts, Tyrant can bounce Abyss on its own)

4 - (VERY IMPORTANT): not just being a huge beatstick. They MUST fullfill a control role. The deck doesn't want a single card that it's just a win condition and nothing else, even worst if it's not a devastating win condition at that.



I'll then make a brieft description of the various sections:

MANA
The mana base has been tested a lot and proves to be incredibly strong for a 4/5 color deck. The land were choosen with blue as the main color, green the secondary one (as it has ramp cards to fetch other colors as well), and white and black as tertiary colours. Red is just a splash for the general and 1-2 cards. An handful of rainbow cards strengthen the colour availability and some basics can even protect against blood moon / dust bowl effects.

The mana ramp is provided by a fair big amount of acceleration in the form of green land-fetchers and mana artifact, plus two doubler enchantments which really power boost the deck when they hit the battlefield. Only green mana ramp that provides card advantage was included.

There is also and handful of useful toolbox lands, mostly things to slow down aggro and recur strong cards from the graveyard.


COUNTERS
They used to be more, but I had to cut some of them, especially the higher cc ones, like Spelljack, Desertion and Overwhelming Intellect. It was almost impossible otherwise to be able to do something useful in the main phase and still be open for counterspells


MASS REMOVAL
As for counterspells, the average cc was lowered a LOT compared to the first deck lists, as it's important to be able to survive the early game and make it to the late game where the deck can achieve control.

SPOT REMOVAL
versatility was preferred, so most spot removals can achieve multiple roles. Sword to Ploughshares is constantly going in/out in place of Mortify, still not sure which is best (I just happen to fear indestructible creatures a bit too much).

DRAW
Since we want to be able to stay open for counterspell, any sorcery-speed draw spell was immediately scrapped. Just Future Sight and Mind's Eye are kept cause of their incredible power.

MANIPULATION
This section was quite bigger in the first version, but I was convinced that little manipulation effects are not so fundamental in EDH compared to Vintage, so cards like Brainstorm and Impulse were taken out in favour of continuous effects like Sensei and Sylvan Library. Scroll Rack would be the next addiction, but I find no space available at the moment.

TUTOR
We need cheap and powerful tutors to get what we need, as this deck is a deck aiming for answer to the opponent's cards, first of all. Imperial Seal and Personal Tutor are next in line if more space was available.

RECYCLE
Volrath and Ruins are among the land count, but they truly belong here, together with the rest. Witness was chosen against Regrowth for being a chumpblocker, a target for ruins and a reusable regrowth with Tyrant in play. Holistic is a total powerhouse and an instant regrowth effect which seals the match in late game if we have enough mana and cards in hand.

CREATURES
I think I've said enough about this in the deck aims above: no beatsticks, only game-swinging control-oriented bombs, which may also happen to play the role of blockers if may be helpful.

CONTROL
These are additional cards aimed to improve the way we can control our opponent. Identity Crisis in particular fullfills the role of hand disruption and needed graveyard hate. Its casting cost has been quite troublesome sometimes, but its utter power and its nature which takes 2 slots earlier reserved to Mind Twist and Nihil Spellbomb (freeing 1 slot for something else) still makes me appreciate this card.

SIDEBOARD
Aimed mainly against armageddon effects and aggro, but most archetypes should be covered one way or the other.

CARDS THAT WERE REALLY CONSIDERED BUT SCRATCHED FOR ONE WAY OR THE OTHER
(Could add reasons if needed)

Mouth of Ronom
Prahv, Spires of Order
Mystifying Maze
Tolaria West
Spectral Searchlight
Fellwar Stone
Shard Convergence
Overwhelming Intellect
Pact of Negation
All Is Dust
Decree of Pain
Path to Exile
Phyrexian Arena
Meditate
Jace's Ingenuity
Maelstrom Nexus
Merchant Scroll
Recoup
All Suns' Dawn
Duplicant
Novablast Wurm
Lorthos, the Tidemaker
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bribery
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Forcefield
Icy Manipulator
Vedalken Shackles
Legacy Weapon
Liliana Vess
Treachery
Capsize


PLAY STYLE
Anyone of you who is familiar with how the old "The Deck" archetype used to run should get the idea: we aim to mana ramp the early game and control our opponent to avoid being overrun, either through counters and/or removals.

Cards like Maze of Ith and the like really help to force the opponent to play multiple creatures at once to be more of a threat against us, and at the same time making mass removals much more effective and card-advantageous.

We fight for card advantage, and try to establish control. Once that is achieved, we can win through several paths.

We also run a couple of combo wins, which help steal some wins when things may look grim, or to just speed up the inevitable and avoid some unexpected comeback.

COMBO WINS
There are a couple of combo wins and a good amount of combo interactions which really tips the scales:

- Tyrant + certain artifact mana (ring + grim monolith for example) let us bounce back our own artifact mana after tapping it, enabling a loop that provides us infinite mana. Together with a color-producing mana artifact, this infinite mana can also be infinite coloured mana. Mana Reflect makes more artifact able to trigger this combo.

- Grim Monolith + Mana Reflect: infinite colorless mana

Infinite mana can be used to win in multiple ways, like a huge draw spell into the opponent's face, a deadly Steell Hellkite attack, a deadly Cromat attack (if infinite mana is coloured), or just by powering us into a long flow of draws and spells. Eternal Witness with Tyrant can make wonderful use of infinite mana by chain casting it to draw your whole graveyard, cast all of the cards, and draw them again over and over.

- Tyrant + Spitting Image + some artifact mana: double Tyrant easily let us do some artifact bounce loop. Even if this loop does not provide infinite mana, or even if it costs some mana, it triggers the second Tyrant, letting use bounce the whole opponent's board


Regarding powerful interactions:

- Future Sight + Top: you may need some mana, but the interaction is sick

- Tyrant/Jace + Witness/Whelk/Snake: a way to easily reuse your CIP creatures

- Ruins + Oblivion Stone: just reset the field over and over as needed until you gain total control

- Crucible + Strip: dump, and a bit slow, but worth tutoring for in very early game if you get the chance


IN THE END...
I'm being quite satisfied with the deck results so far, but being so new to the format and not being totally sure of my opponent's ability, I'm certain many things can be improved. I hope my deck overview was detailed enough to let you understand the reasons behind certain choices, and entertaining enough to trigger some sparks of interest in you

I've toyed a bit with a painter list too, since the unrestriction of gush. I've not had much time to play with it actually, but when I did the results were quite satisfying.

The list is not too much different from what written above already, but anyway, here it is:

//MANA: 17+6=23
1  Tolarian Academy
1  Library of Alexandria
2  Island
2  Tropical Island
2  Underground Sea
3  Volcanic Island
2  Scalding Tarn
2  Misty Rainforest
2  Polluted Delta

1  Sol Ring
1  Black Lotus
1  Mox Sapphire
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Emerald

//DRAW: 8
4  Gush
1  Brainstorm
1  Ancestral Recall
1  Ponder
1 [TFK] Thirst for Knowledge

//TUTOR: 4
1  Demonic Tutor
1  Vampiric Tutor
1  Merchant Scroll
1  Mystical Tutor

//CONTROL: 7
2  Mana Drain
1  Commandeer
4  Force of Will

//CONTROL/REMOVAL: 5
3  Red Elemental Blast
2  Pyroblast

//WIN: 8
4 [SM] Painter's Servant
1  Tinker
1  Grindstone
1  Darksteel Colossus
1  Empty the Warrens

//OTHER: 5
1  Regrowth
1  Yawgmoth's Will
1  Fastbond
1  Time Walk
1  Hurkyl's Recall

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 2  Ingot Chewer
SB: 2  Ancient Grudge
SB: 2  Pithing Needle
SB: 1  Sundering Titan
SB: 4  Tarmogoyf

On the mana side, I've opted to drop the off color mox and the crypt. Crypt could maybe find it way back in, but pearl probably not.

As for the tinker target, both Colossus and Sphinx make sense. They are good in different cases, so it really depends on what you fear most. But I think a Sundering Titan in the side is really good to have for the control matchup (after all you can avoid destroying your own "strange color" lands like green ones with a gush if you really need).

The single Commandeer is a trick up the sleeve. With painter you can really pitch any possible card, and it may be game resolving to commandeer a good spell. You can also tutor it with a mystical or vampiric followed by gush (and then you can also pitch the lands you bounced). It's plain you can not like it.. in that case just put another counter, or another card of your choice.. it's not fundamental.

Regarding the deck general behaviour, it works around the idea of controlling the opponent, and win either with grindstone, or with a gush / fastbond combo finishing (most probably with the help of YWill) into a EtW + Walk. Many could argue that EtW may be just a win more in that scenario, and that may even be true, but EtW is a good alternative win condition, and also a very card to just land a good amount of goblins against creature based or prison decks.

I used to play wow, but, as many has told, it ended up becoming almost a job, requiring too many hours of investment (half of them being mindless farming). Plus, you have duties you need to attend to in almost any serious guild; the alternative is not raiding or going into casual guild, who can not even achieve higher raiding at all.

PvP may require less time, but you still have commitments with your team members and you still may need raid drops for a good equipment.

Wrap it all up.. it was more a work than a way to burn some free time.


I'm now playing SC2 (still being quite bad at it), but even if pro could need a lot of training to reach certain high levels of play ( = time invested), the game itself let you play at your pace without forcing you into being present in certain days or what. You can play less, or more, or drop it for some time and then come back, and it's overall more forgiving in this regard. Hoping to get better at it, I think it'll be my game for a long time to come.

If you are more into RPG, Dragon Age is surely something you should play, it's almost like playing an hypothetical Baldur's Gate III, but it's not too long and you'll finish it in a couple of months at worst.

Many of the absolutely correct comments posted about Plagiarize end up talking about the huge amount of mana involved (then of course there's the action/reaction discussion, but that's another story and depends on the deck). Plagiarize had seen some testing when it was printed, and when it was much more powerful due to people playing cards like Accumulated knowledge, skeletal scrying and brainstorm x 4. Still it wasn't worth it, most cause of its huge manacost. An hypothetical Plagiarize for 1U or something like that would be a totally different story (especially in the past, where it could have been a wonderful wish target in that case).

BTW, even if I've tried to break Arcane Denial too, and for ages, it just sucks. Hmm maybe could have some place in some specific  Stasis decks, but that doesn't make it sound better at all

I do not think this stops Oath. Oath REVEALS cards from the top of library, it does not let the player search his library for a creature.

EDIT: sorry, found the above talking about Oath ambiguous , being close to the statement that this actually stops tinker.

I had toyed with a similar decklist in the past. I've never refined the deck to a point I was really satisfied of, but the approach is similar to the above, just that I included, among the other lock pieces, Ethersworn Canonist. I also included sword of f/i to make creatures like the canonist bigger (bust still think I had not enough creatures to maximize the swords). Even now that Lodestone golem has been printed, I'm not sure I'd run it: it's not blue and so does not pitch to force, and esperzoa is really excellent here:

- bounces tangles to play them again at full power

- bounces an early chalices to play it at different value (ex: an early chalice at 0 could be later replayed at 1 or 2 to stop certain answers)

- bounces a chalice to play a spell of your own at that cc and then replay it (of course opponent could slip some spells in between, but only instants)

- evades, sealing the game fasters, and making better use of the sword


Has I've said, the deck would surely need some more tweaking, but the canonist was surely a very nice addition. Just for reference, this was the list I used to run:


// Mana: 15+9=24
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    4  Tundra
    4  Flooded Strand
    1  Plains
    1  Island
    1  Tolarian Academy

    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Black Lotus

// Creatures: 12
    4  Master of Etherium
    4  Ethersworn Canonist
    4  Esperzoa

// Draw: 6
    3  Thoughtcast
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Brainstorm
    1  Time Walk

// Draw & Removal: 2
    2  Sword of Fire and Ice

// Protection: 4
    4  Force of Will

// Lock: 12
    4  Chalice of the Void
    4  Thorn of Amethyst
    4  Tangle Wire


// Sideboard
SB: 2  Razormane Masticore
SB: 3  Pithing Needle
SB: 3  Engineered Explosives
SB: 3  Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4  Seal of Cleansing

Good to know you've appreciated my try

Actually, I've stopped testing this deck, but just cause I've fallen in love with the skullclamp/ghast/bitterblossom draw engine and I'm trying to build up a control shell around these cards, without cards like blood donor, which may be powerful but I doubt will make the deck REALLY competitive (even if I think this deck could indeed come up as a very nice one). If I ever come up with anything worth it, I could post it, but not in this thread, as it would be a totally different approach.

Another card similar to grave pact I've found is Attrition. But still I think it's quite trash.

Instead, I think, as suggested, that a red splash would actually let us run a some sideboarded Firespout: cast with red mana, they will wipe most of the opponent's battlefield killing just our ghasts. I think we could even end up winning by simple faerie and ghasts beatdown with some of these (not tested yet). A few Sower of temptation (good nice with spellstutter sprite btw) could take care of the bigger creatures, like tarmogoyfs.

Too bad that Grave Pact has such a terrible casting cost.. the effect would have been awesome in the deck.

Actually, I think the best way to win against aggro still remains the same old way: tinker (for sphinx). Still, a donated funnel remains very strong into limiting his possible outs.

Xantid seems appealing.. and even later on multiple ones or those drawn when unecessary could be clamped to draw two. However, what this would take the place of? Spellstutters? Cabals/Thoughtseize? This would help casting our funnel donate combo indeed, but would not help crippling our opponent with discards in the early game or protect our advantage with a couple of counters later on. Xantid is a card that works well in a shell that just kills the opponent that turn, more or less, and I'm not totally sure we are. Xantid is also slow a turn and weakens our mana base; but despite this could be very interesting and it's worth testing, but it would steer the deck in a slightly different direction.

I agree with everything you've written  

Regarding the list I was testing, some more information for you to think about:

- I REALLY liked how intuition becomes a powerhose in the deck, making it very consistent

- I REALLY liked how skullclamp spells "I'm winning" in capital letters

- I really liked the amount of protection and how powerful cabal therapy is in destroying their hand (you can rape hands like ichorid does), so much I would run 4

- I didn't liked to be forced to drop TfK and Frantic, and to a lesser extend tinker/bot, but the only other thing I could drop are either cabals or more probably the spellstutters, and I wouldn't want (BTW, chain can be very good to bounce multiple spellstutters and then bouncing one of your opponent's permanents as well)

- I'm a bit too vulnerable to null rod and leyline, being so focused on skullclamp (leyline blocks skullclamps for those who may not know, since the creature does not go to the grave). Anyway, fish should be handled with our creatures and a sided tinker bot.

Against creatures.. maybe it's not needed, but I was thinging about siding something like Old Man, Vedalken Shackles or helm of possession: this way we can steal their creatures, sac them to funnel, and then steal others. Much better if we had chance to clamp them before saccing them (probably some of those we steal can be killed with 1 or 2 skullclamps alone too). I just don't like shackles cause it goes under rod, and old man cause of its limits tied to the creature's power.

Shattering spree in particular seems very nice even under blood funnel, but still I don't think we should focus on cards good with blood funnel only, such as desire and empty the warrens. Empty the warrens in particular seems pretty weak without artifact bounce spells, rituals and even without ywill according to certain lists posted.

That said, I agree that red is the colour which offers the most, but I'm not totally sure a third colour is really needed: post side gate to phyrexia is a huge threat in a deck like this, and with just an UB mana base we can also run a very solid land setup which can easily ignore wasteland, both against artifact and fish. Additional countermagic in the form of REBs could also be nice (but we already have force, spellstutter and cabals), but then again is it really needed at the cost of a weaker mana base?

I've tried to follow your idea of going for a turbo funnel, without trying to control the match first. It may be dangerous, but it may be worth the risk.

I've been quite satisfied with this list:

// MANA 15+8 = 22
    2  Island
    2  Swamp
    3  Underground Sea
    4  Polluted Delta
    2  Windswept Heath
    1 Tolarian Academy

    1  Black Lotus
    1 [BIN] Mana Crypt
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire

// CREATURES = 9
    3  Bloodghast
    3  Spellstutter Sprite
    3  Bitterblossom

// DRAW: 5
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Brainstorm
    3 [V09] Skullclamp

// TUTOR: 6
    1 [DDC] Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Intuition

// PROTECTION: 8
    1  Chain of Vapor
    3  Cabal Therapy
    4  Force of Will

// COMBO: 8
    4  Blood Funnel
    3  Donate
    1  Illusions of Grandeur

// BROKEN STUFF: 2
    1  Time Walk
    1  Yawgmoth's Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Bitterblossom
SB: 3  Gate to Phyrexia
SB: 1  Helm of Obedience
SB: 2  Illusions of Grandeur
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 3  Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 1 [V09] Tinker


The plan, depending on the situation and cards in hand, may be:

- go for a a ghast or bitterblossom and cast intuition for skullclamp for a solid draw engine

- if you've got skullclamp already, cast intuition for three ghasts and go nuts, winning in a couple of turns while you fill your hand with protections unless your graveyard is hated or skullclamp is destroyed/blocked

- go for some ghasts/faeries, then possibly after some discards or covered by counter magic, go for a quick funnel->donate to cripple your opponent. From this point on, you should worry only about his creatures, but faries should block them and you should be able to seal the deal donating an illusion and bouncing it. While he's under funnel you should develop quite well and also be able to cast a second funnel to quicken your plays

- if you are good with your draw engine already, or really need to cripple your opponent fast, cast intuition for 3 cabal therapies and rape your opponent with recurring ghasts and spawning faeries.


I've gone for some serious modifications so I'll talk about the reasons:

- a full set of artifact mana to power early bitterblossom/intuition and to make skullclamp stronger, since you can easily draw into moxen to draw a solid stream of cards

- a full set of funnels to not being forced to tutor for it,and a full set of intuitions for all the great things this card can do here


I removed some important cards however (space was lacking) in order to include a good set of discards and countermagic (4 force, 3 spellstutter, 3 cabal):

- deep analysis: I either want to tutor for skullclamp (to use it with either ghast or bitterblossom) or for ghasts if I have skullclamp already. And if I have skullclamp I don't need DA.

- Thirst/ frantic: these are awesome when I've got funnel in play, but they are often win more in that case. Without funnel they would be nice mostly to discard ghasts. That's something I can achieve easily with a skullclamp in play just going over 7 cards.. or casting the ghast at worst. TfK could also discard a second skullclamp, but if I have one on the ground I'm probably winning anyway. These would be more useful when I'm just out of useful cards in general, and I'm just digging for something. Alas, something has to be dropped to get to 60

- Tinker/bot: this was an hard decision, but when I'm comboing out it's just faster to win with an illusion/donate combo, or even simple beatdown. Still, it deserves a place in sideboard against fish.

- Jace: win more. Good to keep a lock bouncing spellstutters, or to bounce some opposing creature. I just prefere a simple bounce spell to either bounce the illusion, or some hate card. This deck in fact lacked any bounce spell against possible hate cards like meddling, null rod, leyline of the void, chalice, etc.. I've chosen chain of vapor since it seemed the one better suited for the job (weak only if your opponent has funnel on his side already, but in that case you would probably just need to chain the donated illusion)

- YWill: it's true that it does not work so well with funnel/ghasts, but the sheeer power is clearly known. This card can't be dropped from the list, particularly in a deck running 4 intuitions: after your first funnel-donate you could easily have all your donates in the graveyard, so this is just needed to donate a second funnel or an illusions. For just this reason, if you ever think you don't want Yawgmoth's WIN, at least switch it for a Timetwister.

Sideboard: still uncertain, it's just a draft list, but I would like to stick to as many 3-of as possible to maximize Intuition's potential.


BTW, if you feel to need creature spot removal, you could run Krovikan Horror. It should work quite well with the ghasts (for example: intuition eot for this and 2 ghasts, then get this into hand) and can wreak havoc on your opponents' creatures with all the ghasts and faries you can sac. Still more of a 1-of sideboard card I'd think. It can also shot directly at your opponent, just in case you need a quicker win (but shouldn't be necessary usually).

Yawgmoth's will is always a great card, apart from the very beginning of the match. Much more into a deck which can have a helm of awakening effect to really play all its graveyard out. Even if you can't cast for an instant win, you can use it to gain a huge advantage. Or just to replay a funnel-donate you've got countered before.

Brainstorm is great to look for a force, but also to shuffle away cards uneeded at the moment, and this deck could have plenty (donate, the tinker target, and others), or just to search for an additional land drop and mana somtimes.

BTW, in order to discard ghasts and the like, even Thirst for Knowledge could be quite interesting.

If you look for a 1cc card to make some consistant plays, you could also consider Sage of Epityr. It is nothing flashy but can help sometimes. Personally I wouldn't run it though.

So you plan to play into the funnel-donate aggressively? If that's the case I would probably stick to 4 of each for redundancy, but I think it's quite a risky move: if they counter your donate you may risk be dangerously under your own lock. That's why I would have thought about something more slow as a control shell with counters, therapies and intuition to get the lock down pieces just when you know you're safe to go. Both plans have they good and bad sides of course.

I also noticed you aren't running a full set of mox, but just 4, what's the reason for this? I agree that Mana Crypt should be included anyway, since donating it to a locked opponnent is a clear win.

Very nice idea! Always been a fan of the old Trix.

Since you think about reducing the number of ghasts to three already, have you thought about running intuition along with a good amount of sets of 3 cards, to use intuition as a quick tutor? Something like 3 bitterblossom, 3 skullclamps and such? Same thing with the sideboard choices. And with such configuration, I would up the number of intuitions to 4.

I have some concerns however with running a full set of blood funnels: even if this is central to the deck, it seems a very weak card to have in your starting hand: if you don't have a ghast or a bitterblossom it is too risky to cast it, hoping to draw a ghast later. And even if you have just one of the two, you can easily be locked out of the game if your opponent removes your bitterblossom or gets down some gy hate. Running three of them wouldn't if you ran one more intuition too.

If you are afraid of losing too many resources or key cards on intuitions you could also run a single time twister, but it's not probably needed (it can also be a nice card game 1 against ichorid btw).

I'm not totally convinced by spell snare however, on the other hand have you thought about cabal therapy? On one hand you are probably going to need a good amount of creature fodder for blood funnel already, but therapy would help destroying your opponent's hand with ghasts and fairies before dropping and otherwise risky blood donor or illusion.

Another good thing about therapy is it's just devastating to intuition for three of them when you have got some creature fodder on the field.

As for other minor tips, I noticed you are lacking brainstorm and yawgmoth's will, and using instead merchant scroll, which seems subpar looking at possible targets in your deck (mystical is probably better, but it's probably not worth including either). Ah, and you are running 62 cards, so you should probably cut a couple.

BTW, according to your tests, do you find more useful to donate the blood funnel as soon as possible (in which case running a complete sets of both could be more meaningful) or make good use of the funnel and donate it just as a finishing move (in which case, I would lower both in number)?

They won't put meddling on fireball (or whichever fireball effect you use), cause they can't be sure which kind of fireball you'll use or if you have bounce spells in the deck. They just need to meddle with channel to stop your engine. With no channel emrakul is uncastable, but a fireball can still remove meddling.

Emrakul does still remove things like Worship, but c'mon.. just keep a bounce spell in the deck.. it's just better. Think that if you can start the engine you just win, the win condition is negligible (but the lack of synergy between channel and emrakul doesn't favor him too much actually).

The only advantage of emrakul is being able to just channel him into play and winning with it, something that's a bit too risky with fireball, cause if countered you are almost dead while they can't counter emrakul - they still can counter channel anyway, and they will or they are just playing bad.. figure just if you have two mirrors in hand for instance. Still, if you have a tutor in hand getting a mirror is much better and safe than getting emrakul, even against artifact where you could have some sphere effects against you.

Anyway, what can be worth discussing isn't the win condition, is the whole skeleton around it, since what the deck needs badly isn't the way you win, but an efficient and resilient way to fuel the win.

I was actually tinkering with this deck recently on my own.

I really liked the build someone has linked already, however I find it a bit weak against a mana denial strategy. In this regard I tried to tweak it in order to have a better mana base and be less vulnerable to null rod.

Both things work around using Manamorphose: it lets you convert U from an unwastable first turn island  (to cast personal tutor for instance) into G for that turn two channel. It can also convert offcolor mox into useful mana for a bit of acceleration (like second in the example above, an added mox could help provide GGU to fuel a channel -> Fabricate into lich combo).

Despite Manamorphose, however, I feel the stars are still needed as a way to provide color mana in a reliable way if you combo without colored mana in pool (where manamorphose can't help), or when you are getting a new hand and still don't know which kind of mana you'll need. However it's the card I'd like to remove in the end: it goes under null rod, doesn't provide acceleration on its own and the mana conversion is in loss (2x1) if you activate it the same turn you cast it. I would like to go with just manamorphose and more lands, but you force yourself in needing an open land when comboing out.

I don't like diamond: too few lands and too vulnerable to null rod. Time vault is out of place here, given that you can't even keep the channel effect from turn to turn, and the angel has been proven weak: it's not much aggressive and the opponent can't take time to sculpt a winning hand while you can't combo out of the mirror, until he can destroy both and manage every possible threat you may have collected meanwhile.

I think strokes are interesting as an alternative to fabricate.. however they are too mana intensive pre-combo, and post combo tutoring (either mirror to keep on rolling or lotus to get colored mana) seems better than drawing a bunch of cards where you may get unlucky. Kaervek's torch requires you to collect less mana and can be used to remove an opposing Platinum as well.

I've come to like Nevinyrall's Disk as well as a nice target against artifact: you can easily tutor tinker turn one and if you manage to cast it you should have time to set up before cleaning the board and going for the combo.



//MANA: 10+6(+8) = 16(24)
    4  Misty Rainforest
    1  Forest
    1  Island
    2  Tropical Island
    1  Bayou
    1  Taiga
   
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Emerald

    1  Black Lotus
    1  Lotus Petal

    4  Chromatic Star
    4  Manamorphose

//DRAW: 8
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Brainstorm
    1  Timetwister
    1  Memory Jar
    4  Sensei's Divining Top

// TUTOR: 13
    1  Tinker
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Imperial Seal
    1  Mystical Tutor
    4  Personal Tutor
    4  Fabricate

// COMBO: 6
    1  Channel
    1  Kaervek's Torch
    4  Lich's Mirror

// PROTECTION: 9
    4  Pact of Negation
    4  Force of Will
    1  Nevinyrral's Disk

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Nature's Claim
SB: 4  Xantid Swarm
SB: 1  Jester's Cap
SB: 1  Æther Spellbomb
SB: 2  Pyroclasm
SB: 3  Relic of Progenitus

I haven't tested yet, but I have tried listing a deck working around this idea. I'll post the list if the tests are decent.

However, just to let someone else tinker around it if they feel like, my idea around this thing would be:

4 Show and Tell
4 Oath
4 Tyrants

4 Force of Will
2/3 Misdirection


As the above poster said, Show and Tell could not be so great without a big guy in hand, but show'n'telling an Oath on the field could be quite good as well, since you dodge any countermagic/chalice/meddling, bounce his chosen permanent the next turn anyway through tyrant, and could even fetch for basic island avoiding wastelands on the tropical.

More pitch counters to make the drawn Tyrants less of a problem.

..the rest is to be tested, I was thinking about Mystic Remora as a draw engine (weak against aggro, but this decks should stomp aggro). SnTing the Remora could even be a good move against control and control/combo decks.

I still think that in such shell tyrant is much better than emrakul, since negate snt' weakness, it's blue and pitchable, making the choice of running multiple a passable one, and given that it can hold the ground pretty well and be a very nice win condition of his own in a control or control/combo deck. Cards like cunning wish for freeze could be added to win faster, but we could even chose a more control - style win path.

As a long-time oath player, who has tried many variants, I wouldn't skip the option of just SnT Oath.. of course this isn't a good move against decks with overcosted permanents, but it's a great way to slip an Oath through the opponent's countermagic, or just forcing him to waste a counter against SnT, and then just following with Oath itself. Sometime even jsut casting SnD as bait and following with Ancestrall or duress or whatever could be good if you know the opponent does not have many good permanents in his deck.

In a Oath-SnT deck, however, I would see Tyrant as a much better creature, thanks to its ability to immediately recover from the advantage gained by the opponent, bouncing his permanent (which is excellent against every possible opponent's drop, apart Sundering, Necro and Bargaign mainly).

SnTing an Oath is also great against meddling and Chalice, two cards which are otherwise VERY annoying against an Oath deck.

..but hasn't got gush a terrible anti-sinergy with voidmage? Sure, you can tap UU and THEN gush, but you are going back in mana development anyway; I've played voidmage in the past, and what's incredible with him is having a handful of wizards in play and a BIG amount of UU to stop any possible thread and still be able to cast things. Going back in lands development doesn't seem to improve that.

Gush, however, is still good with wizards and vials, since you can draw voidmage or other wizards and put them into play at instant speed and counter things.

I don't see any lack of synergy between chain and tyrant.. Apart that with tyrant you should not need any other sort of bounce, if you really need it you can bounce multiple moxen of yours and even oath sacrifying some lands, and then recast all for mass bounce.

All my words about rnd weren't about how it's good, just about the fact it's possible to have an infinite turn combo. Anyway, i'm the first thinking it has not much use.. I don't even run it myself: wishing freeze is usually enough and wins immediately instead that after oathing trike as well. Wish has the added advantage of being toolbox. Trike against combo and combo control is just a wasted turn. It can be however an interesting sb option against certain decks indeed. Most of the times however it doesn't do anything a second tyrant would have mad much better. And 2x tyrants on the board are gg as well.

I really can't see how Trike can be better than a tyrant (unless of course we have both, but also having 2 Tyrants is pretty gg): if we are afraid of a confidant or a welder, a Tyrant with just a couple of spells available do the job as well. And against combo, oathing Trike is like giving him a free turn. It can maybe be better just against aggrocontrol, but what if with the second oath activation they sword the tyrant in upkeep and we can't avoid it? We are left with a weak win condition; another VERY good thing of running 2 tyrant is not having the need to care too much about removals. And running three creatures is just begging for finding dead draws early.. something which I see acceptable only if I expect a huge amount of Jesters.. and in that case I would probably just opt for siding R&D or Pllatinum/Sundering with Tinker, which are way stronger tinker targets.

Three creatures are just too much.. 1-2 are more than enough. That's why I've not count 4 with R&D.

And yes, you can go infinite with just 1 R&D:

- oath your deck
- flaskback krosan (which gets removed) for yagwill
- draw and cast will (which gets removed), replay all jewelry, tolaria (you need some mana for the loop), a creature if it was killed, cast walk (which gets removed) and so on.
- cast cunning (which gets removed) -from the grave if necessary- for R&D
- cast R&D for: walk, ywill, krosan, cunning (all of these cards are rfg now). Note that R&D gets removed too since we are under ywill
- pass (we are under walk, so we play another turn)

- oath your deck, cast krosan (which gets removed) for ywill
- draw and cast will, replay from the grave (they have been milled thanks to oath): walk, wish for R&D, cast R&D for the same 4 cards
- attack, pass (we are under walk effect)

Continue as needed.

I'm not saying it's sooo usefule, just that it's possible, and a good way to win if you are well protected with counters and want to win on the spot against another deck running Blessing (Oath? Tyrant should be enough anyway to bounce their beasts unless he's running Simic Sky Swallower)

BTW, the tyrant-trike kill is nice, but wishing for freeze is good enough anyway. And I would hate to oath Trike as my first creature. I would always prefer to run two creatures if I'm not confidente enough running only one. BTW, running too many creatures makes Deep Analysis weaker since it' far more difficult to mill one when oathing.

Kobefan says the deck have too many 2x1 cards, and it can be too difficult to break through a counterwall with enough bombs. Regarding this issue, what about running Xantid Swarm? Sure, it slows down the deck 1 turn, but it's a good way to force a win through any sort of counterspell or instant-speed disruption (stifle, extirpate, even ancestral, and so much more). Xantid is a very good 1xmany against any sort of control or aggrocontrol deck. It's obviously weaker against combo/prison however, since it does not strip them of their win conditions or lock pieces, but at least as a sb option it seems to be quite interesting.

R/D would also allow and infinite turn combo by milling your deck, and let you win just by attacking with tyrant, just in case your opponent has multiple gaea's blessing in the deck and brain freeze isn't an option.. anyway, it's just a win more in this situation. And keeping R/D maindeck I think is quite useless since a Jester can easilyl remove both creatures and R/D. If we really want to run it, I think the best option is in a wishable sideboard: after all it's a card which is seldom useful (but sometime lifesaving). Having 4+ cards among creatures and wishes grant us to survive a single jester. On the other hand, however, the sideboard is quite tight, and even finding a single slot is not so easy.

There is no need for anyone to quarrel and hail their nation as the best one, so I hope such meaningless discussions will just be dropped dead.

On the other hand it would be quite interesting to discuss why certain decks just aren't considerede on the other side of the world, and I mean decks such as TDS, the darkconfidant-scroll combo-control in US as well as most of the American Grow/Gush variants on this other side of the sea. Certainly, the proxy issue puts a certain constraint on which decks are viable/played and which not. Decks like Tyrant gain a lot from an aggro-control proxyless meta where creatures are a lot, but even competitive dryads/tarmo-based decks wouldn't be too happy to see an oath hitting the table.

Other decks, instead, like the TDS mentioned above, should shine even more in a meta where hate decks aren't so widespread. Which are the reasons for this differences? Just the fact that both sides of the ocean do not look at each other? I don't think so. Lists are generally known, just usually considered out of "this side's meta"; I still think that often this is just laziness on trying new things, and even sad "we-are-good-they-are-not" thoughts, and I'm blaming european too about this, beware! ..but I could even be wrong. Certainly, quarreling about everyone's coolness doesn't help sharing ideas.

..and if misdirected, it makes you show your hand to your opponent. Something that, particularly if you are playing combo, is not good at all.

I've been playing this deck for a very long time, and it's absolutely a strong choice. However, with Ichorid a Flash going around, it really needs some improvement.

The old list I used to run was this:

// Lands
    2  Flooded Strand
    2  Snow-Covered Island
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Underground Sea
    4  Forbidden Orchard
    1  Library of Alexandria
    2  Polluted Delta
    1  Tropical Island

// Creatures
    1  Tidespout Tyrant

// Spells
    4  Force of Will
    4  Mana Drain
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Time Walk
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Oath of Druids
    1  Mystical Tutor
    3  Cunning Wish
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Krosan Reclamation
    4  Brainstorm
    2  Deep Analysis
    1  Demonic Tutor
    3  Duress
    4  Accumulated Knowledge
    2  Intuition

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Oxidize
SB: 1  Stifle
SB: 1  Brain Freeze
SB: 1  Sundering Titan
SB: 1  Tinker
SB: 1  Echoing Truth
SB: 1  Extirpate
SB: 1  Vampiric Tutor
SB: 1  Massacre
SB: 1  Misdirection
SB: 1  Rebuild
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void


(Sometimes I try to put some Chalices of the void in the side, they are very good with a Tyrant in play)

Playing tendrils maindeck is not really useful. With Tyrant you can get infinite storm with ease, so cunning wish for freeze is enough, and differently from tendrils, cunning wish can be a very useful (even if a bit slow) spell on its own.

I like to play the deck with an old-control style, so the reason for the Intu+AK engine. Deeps are good with intuitions too, but most of all are great after a resolved oath (which can find you with an almost depleted hand).

You can play with two Tyrants, but in my experience one is usually enough if you play carefully. I prefer the tinker+titan plan in the side for certain matchups. Platinum could be nice sometimes but does not resolve problems, and simic is just too slow (double tyrant would be ALWAYS better than Tyrant+Simic or Simic+Simic).



Now, the problem in the current metagame is that AK are not always so good (grave hate, extirpate, and not so quick overall). Some guys here in Italy are trying to switch them with just more counterspells to force a quick oath and/or stop a quick threat. Personally I don't like this option too much, but it's mostly a style issue.

There are other ways that can be followed: gush is one, but even if a Gush-Oath deck has done well in Italy in a VERY big tournament recently, I don't feel it's the best way to go. Losing lands for a control-oriented deck isn't nice at all. A possible switch I'm thinking about could be:

-4AK
+1 Intuition
+1 Lotus Petal
+1 Flash of Insight
+1 Duress

The third intuition would give more tutoring power (many cards are at least 3x), and could fetch Deeps if draw power is needed.  Petal is another zero cc permanents which enables a infinite storm, and most of all a card which accelerates first turn duress/oath/drain. The fourth duress is gold against decks like flash. Flash of insight is a interesting tech which needs a bit of discussion.

Even if just an awful impulse if drawn, which can just cycle for 2U (but which flashbacks with 1U as an impulse giving card advantage) its REAL power is after an oath activation. It can usually dig VERY deep when flashbacked to let us find a missing combo piece to seal the deal immediately. In particular if we flashback it for an X >= than the number of cards left (happen quite often), then we can choose how to stack the whol remaining deck, thus doing a sort of Demonic+Vampiric with just 1U; this can be particularly good togheter with krosan, so that we can put back in case they were milled ywill + lotus/counter and be sure to draw both of them this turn. Used in such ways, Flash of Insight help us reach an incredible amount of win % on the same turn we activate oath.

Restricting Serum, even if quite odd, would be an excellent choice to almost kill ichorid (at least the manaless version) without killing bazaars: if ichorid can't be almost sure to have Bazaar first turn, then it needs spells to find it, and spells can be countered.

As for the rest, if it were for me I would do one of these:

- Restrict Flash
- Restrict Serum Powder
Or

- Restrict Flash
- Restrict Serum Powder
- Restrict Merchant Scroll

With the proper countermeasures, I still think Gush deck can be kept in check; Flash is the one which really needs to go. However, restricting Merchant would give a good hit to both decks (and to the Giftless Gift decks, which are still played with very good results here in Italy). On the other hand, restricting Merchant and leaving Flash unrestricted would somehow hinder flash, but also help it, since the opponent would find much more difficult to fetch a counter quickly.

In the end it would be if you just need to kill flash or want to slow down all the others too.

Ah, and of course Ichorid just deserves to die, as it is a deck which takes away any possible interaction in the name of a "first turn leyline or die" game.