I ran it at waterbury, but it was skewed quite a bit from the original list. I dropped lavamancers, crypts, darts, and factories. I put in 4 samurai of the pale curtain, 3 kataki, and 4 incinerates. It felt really good, it just couldn't kill fast enough. The updated version in the test pits right now kills much faster while still keeping much of the disruptive elements and less garbage. Samurai was great against dragon and would have been gold against landstill when it got crucible/waste going. Kataki was pretty hot, if anything just stunting mana development. He acted more like a resource lite mox monkey than the usual goal of energy flux. Factories just seemed bleh, and I wanted WW for samurai, which is coming out. He really wasn't worth the commitment.

What are the thoughts on Samurai of the Pale Curtain and or Kataki, War's Wage? They both seem like solid fits, great at hating artifacts, and welders, with Samurai with Yawgmoth's Will fit squarely in his crosshairs. Is it that hard to hit WW? Also, Mogg Fanatic and to a lesser extent Goblin Legionnaire seem like good fits, keeping welders off the table against stax and slaver, or god forbid some scrub aggro comes around. I might just be stating already tested ideas, but please elaborate on their non-inclusion.

I really dont see a need for any additional acceleration. The ability to lead with maze or rod is fine, and ripping a lotus off the top when I want a body or lock piece sucks.

With as mana light as the deck already is I'm not sure rogue elephant has a place in it. He needs to come down turn 1 or 2 to be worth it, which screws with the plan of turn 1 maze, turn 2 body, turn 3 rod/kataki, which is th way the deck really likes to play out. Getting someone under the maze/rod/field lock causes the eventuality of even a scryb sprite without rancor going for the throat against tier 1 control or control-combo, but I'm not about to go that extreme.

I think a 3cc , 3 power creature is a bit more than the deck is willing to commit. Also, if I used suppression field his main benefit would be negated. The creatures are just as you put it, cheap fat. Kataki is the only body with an ability, and is only included because of his bearish nature combined with his ability. The more I look at suppression field the more I like it. Early game it can be crippling against fetches, furthering the mana denial theme. In conjunction with other denial factors I think it can be wicked good.

Bebe, we have different theories on what is needed to make the deck perform, so I think we'll just put it to bed before it gets out of hand and the thread gets locked. On a lighter note, for all you with a boner the size of Wisconsin over suppression field, I've made room and adjustments for it's inclusion. I don't know if I like how it feels as much, but I also haven't had a chance to play with it in hand (obviously). Here's the updated list:

4x Jungle Lion
4x Watchwolf
4x Skyshroud Elite
3x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Isamaru, Hound of Konda

4x Root Maze
4x Null Rod
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Suppression Field
3x Choke
1x Black Vise

4x Rancor

4x Land Grant
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Savannah
7x Forest
1x Mox Emerald

I really don't see a need for 3 more duals, so if people could keep conversation on that point to a minimum it would be appreciated. It's been sound theory for thew past year or better that basics are pretty awesome, and I see no reason why this deck doesnt fit into that scheme as well. The sideboard remains unchanged.

After some ideas from here and outside TMD the deck has been changed up a bit. For reasons why I'm not using suppression field, see the earlier posts. For reasons why I'm not using fetches, please read root maze. First turn null rod good, first turn Kitaki bad, so 4 null rods makes it that much more likely one will drop turn 1. Jungle Lion is better than savannah and isamaru because he's green, plain and simple. The deck is base green with splashed white. Commiting to more white forces huge manabase adjustments, and I'm not a huge fan of having to ditch root maze for fetches. Anyway, here's the new list:

//NAME: Jungle Lion Stompy

SB:  3 Sacred Ground
SB:  4 Armadillo Cloak
SB:  3 Oxidize
SB:  4 Naturalize
SB:  1 Choke

        4 Mishra's Factory
        4 Forest
        1 Plains
        4 Savannah
        1 Strip Mine
        4 Wasteland
        1 Mox Emerald
        4 Elvish Spirit Guide
       
        1 Black Vise
        3 Choke
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        4 Null Rod
        4 Root Maze
        4 Rancor
       
        2 Kataki, War's Wage
        3 Watchwolf
        4 Basking Rootwalla
        4 Wild Mongrel
        4 Jungle Lion

I'm finding the moderate thinning ability of land grant pretty lackluster, so I opted to run a full compliment of factories in their place. Watchwolf is a beating, and less needy than the villages I had in his place. I was a bit mana loaded before, so I opted to just ditch the treetops for an actual body. Factories have been absolutely wicked, an extra body and mana source in one, which is exactly the type of swiss army knife the deck needed.

@bebe: Your deck is very different in playstyle than mine. Yours looks to beat face, mine looks much more to deny mana as it beats face. You dont run any strips which really hasn't been in style since the Dojo... Mana denial + Vice is some good, and keeping someone off 4 mana to gifts is even better. The theory of laying men and beating face with no plan ridin shotty doesn't work anymore.

@policehq: The decks that play wastelands don't play colossus which is plow's main role. Also I already play 4 rods along with the 4 mazes. One doesn't do the other's job any better, they have their own role. Rod shuts down permanently, root maze buys me the critical turn to go lethal or set up further. Also, zealot doesnt go online until turn 2 when I am extremely lucky, and turn 3 if I'm only somewhat. As for scrapper, he cant beat and do his job, takes a turn to get online, and isn't a substantial body for cost.

@Arvid: I already only play 2 savannahs, so why exactly would I want to play a new dual without a full compliment of savannahs (which is completely unnecessary). As for the 3 Katakis, pulling a second one is bad stuff, and doesn't fill the mana denial role that rod does. A first turn rod is sexy, first turn Kataki, not so much.

Wow, lots of response...

@OCat: Since I can't rely on blinding speed or the ability to say no I need the disruptive ability of null rod on board. Jitte is cute, but here I think the dildo cloak just makes more sense. In the games it is brought in for it has shown itself to be brutal, and usually another crap aggro deck can't get past life gain, especially on a 4/3 or bigger body.

@LordMayhem: Crucible of worlds as anti-Stax tech seems counter-intuitive to me with sacred ground available. Getting a recurring strip or even waste going, and being able to get 3 mana to drop it soon enough to matter is also a problem. Then of course there's the whole "add a second counter" tech... sacred ground just seems like a bigger beating for Stax, just my opinion though.

@TheStu: I'm not a huge fan of either of them, and actually think suppression field would eat donkey balls. Making my mongrels, rootwallas, and wastelands not work is not the best of ideas. As for Life from the Loam, I really don't think it's effect is profound enough to warrant inclusion.

@MaxxMatt: How exactly does a 4/1 jungle lion or even a 5/2 mongrel race a colossus? I think swords is integral to the deck's targetted game, namely control and control/combo. As for river boa, he sounds great but I run into the same problem with him as I do with Watchwolf since I'm leaving the plows.

I had thought about it, my question is what to cut? My dilemma is that I don't want to get rid of any of my threat density, nor do I want to cut the MD hate I'm running since it would defeat the purpose of the winter orbs in the end anyway. Two color jank aggro stretches back to gay red and u/g madness, but has kept drifting farther towards aggressive disruption as opposed to aggro control. It's a trend I kind of like seeing in that people are finding ways to make decks without a standard starting point of "4 Force of Will." I see MD choke as a HUGE beating, but I find the 3cc to sometimes be 1 too much to get it down when I really want it to, especially when I am under a root maze. Maybe it's the weak link that I'll cut for Orb, what does everyone else think?

Also there is a creature in Ravnica called Watchwolf which my be a perfect fit at a 3/3 for GW. Again my dilemma is what to cut... Jungle Lion is the most efficient 1 drop green has, and the dynamic duo of Superdog and Wonderwalla are pretty sweet. Kataki isn't really counted as a creature, more like hate on a stick. Thoughts on the new gold doggy?

Preboard I have Kataki and root maze to slow them down, which may or may not be enough. I haven't played against any shop decks as there aren't any around for me to try against. Post board I have 4 natuarlize and 3 oxidize, plus against stax I have sacred ground. Again, not quite sure if it's enough but 10 sideboard answers to stax and shop aggro sounds pretty potent to me.

Essentially the goal of the deck is very similar to Oshawa and GPR2. Slow the game down via hate cards (null rod and root maze), potentially wreck the opponent's mana base via strips and rod, all the while beating face for the win. The sometimes inconsistent madness engine has been abandoned for smaller bodies and the availability of more hate in the form of swords and Kataki. Swords seems integral to any aggro strategy with colossus being the win condition of choice for just about every control and combo-control deck. Anyway, onto the list and breakdown:

4 Jungle Lion
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
2 Kataki, War's Wage

4 Rancor

4 Root Maze
4 Null Rod
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Choke
1 Black Vise

4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Emerald
3 Treetop Village
3 Savannah
6 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Armadillo Cloak
4 Naturalize
3 Oxidize
3 Sacred Ground
1 Choke

Jungle Lion: 2/1 for G, nice artwork, no drawback, how can you go wrong? A relatively quick clock with a rancor strapped around it's neck.

Wild Mongrel/Basking Rootwalla: Solid fast drops, both easily start swinging second turn for 3 or more.

Kataki: Energy flux on a stick, beats face when rancored.

Rancor: Standard stompy fare, makes little guys beat harder.

Root Maze: Slows everything down immensely, especially with a reliance on fetches with basics. It compounds drastically when dealing with decks relying heavily on artifact mana. The added bonus of hosing dragon is cute too.

Null Rod: More mana denial, and anti-vial tech.

Swords to Plowshares: Sending colossus farming is it's main role, but is perfectly content working on welders, karn, and grumpy old men of the sea.

Choke: I hate control, what can I say? If I get it working with maze, well, it's sexy.

Black Vise: With a mana denial theme, an opponent with a full grip won't be hard to come by. Why not capitalize on that?

Sideboard:

Armadillo Cloak: Yep, jank common, loved it in draft... Against fishy things and other weenie aggro it has been absolute gold. A cloaked mongrel beats face and makes for a sometimes insurmountable life swing.

Naturalize: Busts chalice set at 1 and Oath, two of my biggest problems.

Oxidize: Stax seems to be quite a fixture in the vintage meta, and this couples with naturalize and sacred ground to hose it.

Sacred Ground: Anti-Stax tech

There we have it. I have won a little tournament around against everything from circa 2003 gay red to gifts slaver, and t8ed in 2 others. Any thoughts on better card choices would be really great, I'm anxious for some feedback and criticism.

I've never talked to him, and I don't think I'm even halfway through his asshole high list of articles yet, but if he is retiring he will be missed. We all owe a lot to him, more than most of us can articulate into words.

Can you please post this in the tournaments forum?

There is going to be a 5 proxy tournament for a mox ruby on August 21st at Imperial Outpost 17 in Gloucester, VA. Second prize is a dual of choice, third is a minty fresh Force of Will (YAY!). Entry fee is $15, and it starts at 1pm. If you need directions you can either post on here or call the shop at (804)642-1556.

Here is the build I am taking to the Starcity Tournament in July:

Eggs:
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Darkwater
3x Sungrass
3x Skycloud
2x Mossfire
1x Shadowblood

4x Helm of Awakening

4x Death Wish
2x Tendrils of Agony

4x Duress
2x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall (Proxy)
3x Thoughtcast
3x Spoils of the Vault
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Demonic Tutor

4x Dark Ritual
1x Lotus Petal
1x Black Lotus (Proxy)
1x Mox Jet (Proxy)
1x Mox Sapphire (proxy)

1x Tolarian Academy
5x Island
7x Swamp
3x City of Brass

Sideboard:
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Mind's Desire
1x Oxidize
1x Aura Blast
1x Wheel of Fortune
and 8 more, I cannot quite decide qhat else to put in

Any thoughts, questions, or comments on how it can be tuned to go off faster (it goldfishes 3rd turn consistently, 2nd on rare occasion), please let me know. I have a feeling the duress will help immensely on a competitive level to force through whaty I need, and I don't see taking them out as a way to speed up a deck with no other way to punch through a wall.