Choo Choooooo

Anyone have info on the prelim?

Funny you say that Steve, because i did Jeremy's phone with this thread on it to the judge after the game and it did not influence the decision. it wasnt for many rounds later that i got with abe though


It was a tough call being at 6. i wouldve been in a much better position that game had i drawn a fetch, which would have let me use dig under wire (revoking my jet with 4 mana on board was rough for me). i dont remember having another plow though, i thought it was a mentor, i'll have to go re watch, but chalice was another nail in the coffin. if there was a wrong play in that game, i think it was gushing under wire. i already had 2 moxen, so hitting more fast mana was greedy and unlikely, so i just set myself back. didnt have another land drop though. tough game with a lot of complex decisions

During the match, I did ask the judge, since I was pretty sure I knew the correct ruling. The judge did rule against me, and I also lost my appeal with the head judge. Fortunately, the ruling had zero impact on the match (since i was still under trinisphere and only had 2 red to use spree with at 4 mana).

A while after the match, I was speaking with Jeremy Beaver and a few of my other team mates who were also under the same rule understanding as I was. When I saw Abe (who consistently judged Blue Bell vintage events back in the day, and we knew would know this Vintage ruling), we went up to him and he confirmed that our understanding was correct. Abe was nothing but professional. He made sure all the judges that made the adverse ruling were educated, and apologized profusely.

Accidents happen, and I'm glad that I wasn't in a position where it cost me the match. I consider my match with Rich a great experience.

Great to see everyone, awesome event!

Nate Thompson was on griselbrand oath

I usually check prices on mtgotraders.com . That's the site I used to buy in since you don't have to worry about paying with tix. Seems to be a pretty accurate guide for pricing

Congratulations on the great showing. Luck favors the prepared!

Sorry for the late response, i've been out of town

Most likely be 9 rounds

Probably have to fight shops and dredge once or twice each, and the rest will be blue (unless you run into random budget contender). Oath is usually pretty relevant, but I'd imagine that there is going to be a lot of RUG in the room, and a decent amount of merfolk. The coming weeks will really impact deck choices, but a lot of people will be using results like waterbury to make deck choice calls.

I'd try and get talrand main. It really doesn't have any matchup that it feels bad to have, and there's probably other cards to board.
I'd also put a nihil spellbomb somewhere in there, probably sideboard it also comes in against the welder deck, and it's extra card draw.




One of my key pieces of advice is to remember this is a 9 round tournament. In a 9 round tournament, you need a few easy wins to get by. That's why people play tinker.

Library on the draw, being a free win against blue decks (most of the time), is too good to pass up for me. Being able to retrieve a countered yawgmoth's will is also pretty clutch. If i had timetwister in the deck i might not necessarily run regrowth. If you want snapcaster mage instead that's fine too, since it does counters/decays as well as will. It doesn't do gush though.


My other advice is just play the deck a lot, obviously. No angles. If you can play the deck well, because you're familiar with it, you are more likely to succeed

Awesome write-up! It sounds like you've really been playing this deck a lot. I've found many of the same findings you have (especially about tinker)

Do you happen to remember the archetypes of the decks you faced during the tournament?

a few notes/random thoughts about some card choices:

1. Drains vs claim/deluge
- in my playtest group, we've often referred to these as "flex spots". you can kind of put whatever you want into them. After champs i switched both of these slots to abrupt decays, and that worked well for a while. currently i've got a 2nd hurkyl's in one of those slots, and i've been up in the air on the other. I'm glad drain worked for you. Where I test, most decks that i'd want drain against run cavern of souls, so like i said earlier, kind of a metagame decision.

2. 2nd talrand/ -1 shaman
- I keep going back and forth on this. Shaman is good for consistency (but you don't really need more than 1 on the field usually).  Having a second Talrand is ok to increase the draw odds, but i haven't found it that much more relevant. I've played with some other cards in this slot. As crazy as it sounds, Magus of the Future (with a cavern of souls in the board) or Future sight have been really good options in playtesting. With fastbond it's insane. Another option i've thought about is timetwister, but I'm always leery about giving people more cards with no guarantee of killing them that turn. I'm sure there's other options out there.
Long story short, I'd rather put in another bomb card that synergizes with Tendrils, but can kind of win the game on its own, than a 2nd talrand. Since that card may not exist, Talrand might just be the best choice.

I don't think it's bad to cut a deathrite Shaman, but I just saw a guy playing a deck with a seeds of innocence in the sideboard, and I think this deck can totally support that card with 4 shamans, so i'm going to give that a run as well (as long as shops is on the uptick)

3. Question - if you had to only play 2 misstep, or play only 1 flusterstorm, which one would you choose and why?

4. how were the mindbreak traps out of the board? i found a lot of success with them, especially with all of the cavern

5. I also agree with your comments on Jace. A lot of people say Jace is terrible right now. I don't necessarily agree with that. Jace-centered strategies don't seem to be in a good spot, but Jace itself is a fine card. It's a big bullseye that they're forced to focus on while you just focus on winning.

6. After champs, I thought that I had made a Gush combo deck. Now that I've played it in so many tournaments, I think that this deck is much closer to Gush control than gush combo. Thoughts?


Thanks in advance for your insights! This deck is obviously very strong. I think since champs i've played with this deck in 6-7 tournaments and top 8'ed all but one of them. I think that just those results, along with your extremely impressive showing, really speak to the power of this deck.

Felt good to get back into the groove, see everyone again, and start knocking some rust off.

Thanks to Shawn and TPG for holding the event

Everything is worth trying! it's something I had not considered, mostly because it's been so long since I've dusted mine off. Now that champs is a year away, there's a ton more time to test fun cards and just have fun exploring the format. I'll definitely keep the vintage world posted on what develops, hopefully via top 8 lists!

Steve,

First off, thank you for taking time to read my notes and provide your insight. I think everyone has something to bring to the table, and I value everyone's comments so far.

I suppose I can expand on what I meant when I was talking about Young Pyromancer. You can look back for the past half a year or so since it was printed and see I've had some pretty solid finishes with it; it's not a deck I'm unfamiliar with.

What I'd like you to keep in mind as you read is not overall effectiveness, but play style.

The last tournament I played pyromancer grow in, I won one game with Tendrils of Agony, and that was during the top 8 off the back of a counter chain on my own spells. The rest were off the back of Pyromancer. In my experience, Pyromancer did a bulk of the work, and tendrils was a secondary win condition. As you said, it was easier to "oops i win" into tendrils, than it was to set up a quick kill. many matches went into the late game, rather than the early kills I was accustomed to.

In my experience, Tendrils complements Pyromancer, but not the other way around. I can understand why you would have a different position than me if you had different results with the deck. That's one of the cool things about Magic, people can play the same cards in entirely different ways!

I agree with many of your points. The ability to spread your opponent's resources between two different strategies does make pyromancer grow an appealing deck choice. I do not question Pyromancer's legitimacy, and I expect I'll play it again eventually, but I was interested in building a deck that's primary win condition was Tendrils of Agony. Simply a stylistic choice. I can only draw my conclusions based on my own experience.




On that note, my experience shows me deathrite shaman is a HOUSE. He looks terrible on paper, I know. I was very skeptical when I saw other lists that ran him in similar builds. He works surprisingly well in a number of situations

I think I can agree that shaman's primary role is mana generation, but like I mentioned in my writing, where he really stands out is COLOR generation. Being able to upkeep vamp tutor regardless of wasteland on turn 1 was pretty awesome. (also, you can cast a-call if your first land was a fetch, since that means you had 2 lands in yard!) He solves a lot of those awkward off color problems you find in your hand, and makes null rod/magus far less uncomfortable. Additionally, as your teammate Kevin showed, he's a solid control card against blue decks, and can eat away precious graveyard/snapcaster resources.

Additionally, on a "blind keep" of 7, where I didn't know what my opponent was running, a one land hand was much more reasonable of a keep with a deathrite shaman in it.  It's true that you can get wasted and stall off gush, but for every gush in your deck, there is also a preordain that you could cast off the destroyed land to find additional mana sources/relevant spell. I never really had problems with mana, and that in itself is valuable. In those cases where I was low on cards, He managed to do work on his own, gaining or draining life, like a little planeswalker.

Many times I found the life gain to be important, and the damage was also relevant, even in the face of opposing creatures that were much bigger. I could go on and list a million reasons this card is good, but you can do that with any card.

Like i said in my reply to Onslaught, I don't know if it's the "answer", but I've never been afraid to try new and unintuitive things in decks. What looks bad on paper sometimes works out, and vice versa. He worked very well for me and I will definitely be using it at some point in the future.

I recommend giving it a few playtest games, and see what you think. Again, it might just be another one of those style choices. It's so hard to say that anything is concrete "right" or "wrong" in Magic.

ErtaiAdept:

The workshops matchup is definitely one of the LEAST fun, but I was able to beat it. Workshops is one of the reasons I include the 15th land, and Sol ring. Sol ring is SO important against shops.

There will be games where you are just blown out by chalice lodestone, or something similar, just like you can blow them out with fastbond gush. I definitely felt a little more comfortable with a playset of mana producing 1 drops! Shamans are also additional permanents for tangle wire.

As I mentioned above, my style is to build enough mana to make a relevant hurkyl's. The other option is to be the control deck. If you can stabilize trygon predator and back it with nature's claim, you're most likely set. Red obviously opens a lot more options, and shamans can probably support it, but I've never been a huge fan of 4 colors.

I don't playtest nearly as much as I'd like to, and I don't playtest online. I'm a busy adult, life happens. I do spend a lot of time goldfishing though. The key to understanding the shops matchup is memorizing their lines of play, or in other words, understanding their tempo. When building/playtesting a deck, if you can't manage to stay in the game and build resources at the appropriate tempo, you will lose. If you can consistenly maintain your tempo with theirs, your odds are way better; but, you have to understand, it still is a bad matchup. That's why they built the deck, after all.

I hope that makes sense. That being said, I'd say the deck overall probably has a 50+% chance to win against shops on the right day, and as far as blue combo decks go, that's pretty exceptional.


Some Sideboarding notes

I know a lot of my choices may seem unintuitive, but you just need to take some of them on faith until you try them. Of course I'm open for suggestion and debate, but get yourself into a few tournaments and give it a shot before we discuss sideboarding theory. Additionally, one of the big things that you need to recognize is that against matchups like dredge and more broken blue decks, YOU become the control deck. You need to not only have the mindset of a combo pilot, but a control pilot as well. Playing those tight control games, and being able to shift between the two roles, is crucial to gush success. Just like shifting gears in a car. Against decks that have more control elements, we need to enable the combo strategy as quickly and aggressively as possible.

Rule number ONE
One thing that people love to take out of the deck in sideboard matches is preordain. DO NOT DO THIS. If you need to draw your sideboard cards, you can't cut the most efficient way to find them out of your deck!

Dredge:
-1 Regrowth
-1 Hurkyl's recall
-1 Library of Alexandria
-1 Merchant Scroll
-1 Nature's claim
-1 Gush

+2 grafdiggers
+ 2 Jailer
+1 Nihil Spellbomb
+1 Ravenous trap

Additional note: if they run leylines, the claim stays in. I think I may have boarded out a Force of Will. I know it seems unintuitive, but it's kind of inefficient and as long a you have ONE piece of hate, even if they blow it up, you've typically got time to find another and stabilize. The second games are usually slower. I'm still not sure if it's right, but I hate to weaken the combo engine TOO much. You could probably take out a second gush though and be the control deck.

Shops

On the Play:
- 3 misstep
-2 flusterstorm
-1 regrowth
-1 merchant scroll
-1 Gush

you can win with less resources. They have no interactions with you.

On the Draw: (You could reasonably do this on the play as well, but I like to get as much out of my turn 1 as possible, so I wouldn't really know what to cut) I used this same theory when I piloted remora gush.

All of those other cards
-2 X
+2 Mindbreak Trap

The matchup I played at worlds was pretty convenient. He was running slash panthers. I cut the Jaces

Blue:

Honestly it depends on the deck. If they run blighsteel, i leave in hurkyl's, otherwise that's the first cut.
If they don't run creatures, I cut deluge. If they only run a few, it's not an unreasonable cut.

If they're on Oath, i like to cut a lot of the creatures, and add in all of the mindbreak traps along with artifact/enchantment hate and become a control deck.

You can reasonably cut a mana source, I recommend Sol ring, since Library is a boss, islands are good for gush (and cutting them can sometimes make fetchlands dead, and that sucks), plus you want/need the blue mana, and we don't run tinker. (crutch)

Nihil spellbomb is another draw card, I add it in against decks with graveyard interactions like bomberman or welder.

I rarely cut regrowth in these matchups. I never cut Jaces. The main deck is pretty good against blue. Unless you're playing oath, i suggest as few changes as possible.


Aggro - Flusterstorms and regrowth. Other cards it depends on what they run. add more claims if they run null rods/stony silence.

I play a lot of sideboarding by ear. Decks are so unique these days. That's why I like to have my cards hit as many relevant decks as possible.



ELD:

I didn't know Deluge was a card until you just posted that lol.

I think Toxic Deluge will quickly become a Vintage Staple. I think it will keep the aggro decks in check(especially since people are now so aware of the top 2 champs decks), which will give a short rise to the combo decks, and then the shops will be on top again once they're done hiding from the aggro decks. Circle of Vintage.

Matt:

Ponder is not in the deck because I hate that card. You have to leave the other 2 on top! not so good when you're trying to dig through your deck for win cards. If i take gush off ponder, I'm FORCED to put the other 2 into my hand. If I blind shuffle, all of the junk I preordained to the bottom dilutes the threat density of the deck. I cut ponder out of these lists and put in Library of Alexandria as the 15th land most of the time. Library is the best in gush, plus draws you cards like preordain

Main Deck Deluge was pretty good. I didn't cast it a lot, but when I did it was worth it. If you deluge for 1, your deathrite shaman survives, and you can kill bobs/pyromancers, cliques, true name nemesis, any of the 1 toughness guys in the format. I can't wait for the day I pay 11 life to kill a blightsteel colossus!


Onslaught:

Thanks for the kind words! I really like the deck as it is now. I wouldn't say that shaman is the "answer", because the format is constantly shifting. I imagine if everyone starts playing shaman gush, shaman gush will be bad, because the deck is weak to shaman lol. It's currently what I'm messing around with though, but you really need to be willing to take risks, play with terrible cards, and use the knowledge other people have already come out with to augment your understanding of a deck.
The beautiful thing about Vintage is that i've been playing the same engine for years. There's times where I know what i'm going to draw next just because i've played the deck so many times. No other format is like that, so cool! I hope the comments i put above lend some insight into different angles of attack for you, and if you have any questions, feel free to shoot them my way!

Chris:

The years of constant berating, with endless nights of Cruel Bargains, does pay off once in a while. I still want entomb in the cube.

Of course I'd like to thank Nick Coss for holding this ridiculous event. A thousand times cheaper than Gencon, the security was awesome, and the venue was sick. The rooms that were reserved in Hotels were great, and the judges knew vintage interactions! If you ever have the chance to go to Chima Steakhouse, get there, best meal of my life.

First off, the brew

2 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Library of Alexandria

1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic tutor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Time Walk
1 Regrowth
4 Preordain

4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm
1 Nature's Claim
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ancestral Recall
1 mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush

1 Fastbond

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor


Sideboard:

2 Trygon Predator
2 Nature's Claim
1 Forest
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Mindbreak trap
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Grafdigger's cage


I came to this tournament with one goal in mind: I wanted to kill people with Tendrils of Agony.

My deck choices were designed with this in mind. There were many decks that I've played over the past year that I considered to be extremely good; however, they did not win with tendrils. Before I was a gush player, I was a TPS player. I try to keep the feel as close as possible.

Over the past few months, i've been experimenting with a multitude of different variants to accomplish this. I'll go over a few of the commonly attempted gush strategies and explain why I chose not to use them

1. Pyromancer

This is definitely the strategy I spent the most time trying to refine over the past year. I consider Pyromancer Gush an extremely good deck, and I've top 8'ed multiple tournaments with it. I chose not to play it because it's a separate and individual strategy that does not synergize with the tendrils kill, it detracts from it. 3-4 slots occupied for pyromancers created a desire for creature removal to clear the way for aggro based wins. This is not synergistic with tendrils
Additionally, it's been a long-running joke with my play group that I don't know how combat works. This is....entirely correct. I found myself losing many top 8 matches to faulty combat plays and not understanding the correct way to assign damage (forget about adding in double strike, trample, etc). You cant' make those kind of mistakes in a 9 round tournament and expect to do well.

A deck such as AJ's RUG Delver list has the ability to take advantage of Pyromancer in ways that the combo deck cannot, because it aids pyromancer, whereas tendrils tries to combo off on its own strategies. The two pull at each other, rather than being synergistic.

2 Lotus Cobra

This card is one of my all time favorites; however, is usually a win-more. Against opposing blue decks the ability to continue to use mana to accelerate bombs is pretty good, but against shops you had to actually DRAW the land in order to use cobra, and many times its just a dead card on the field (draw a bunch of mana sources = dead)

3 Dark Confidant

This is probably one of the better choices to go with gush tendrils. A few extra cards goes a long way, and the average life loss isn't that terrible. In a creature heavy meta, however, dark confidant becomes a detriment, rather than an asset, and can quickly chip away at the life you need in order to win with gush. I found myself losing to any deck that ran vendilion clique. With decks having so many options available to deal with creatures, I knew I didn't want my center draw strategy to revolve around bob.

4 AK/Intuition

This is a new one for me. This draws a MILLION cards. Against blue decks, I'd imagine this strategy very strong. I played Miquel Alcoriza's top 4 LCV AK/Gush shaman list in the Grinder on Friday. I found AK to be the weakest part of the deck against decks that were not blue (But it was SO MUCH FUN)

Enter Deathrite Shaman

A kill condition, a Stall tactic, A mana producer.

Kill Condition

Typically, one of these on the field isn't going to kill anybody, but it acts as a copy of tendrils every turn, meaning that you don't need to rely solely on Yawgmoth's will to cast a tendrils for lethal, and you don't need to try and get past creature walls. Two of these on the field activating every turn usually kills someone


Stall Tactic

Life gain against aggro, plus a blocker. I'd trade it with Bob any day, plus it baits out mental misstep. In theory the deck could reasonably stall for a turn or 2 against game 1 dredge in order to set up a combo kill (didn't work that way, but the theory's nice)

Mana Producer

Fetchlands and opposing wastelands are the most obvious uses to fuel out extra mana, but I think what makes this card shine is that it taps for ANY color. This makes your mana base even stronger (which it already is since its only 3 color). The deck instantly becomes more able to deal with random Magus decks, and obviously helps against other mana denial strategies. Unwitting players would also find themselves on the wrong end of a flusterstorm/nature's claim, assuming I was tapped out.

Back when we played cobra a lot, it created a ton of excess mana that went unused. Shaman creates one mana a turn, which is relevant, but not excessive, and has other abilities.

Sideboard:

One of my theories about sideboarding is that I want cards that are relevant against multiple decks. Many of the cards i use I'll board in against entirely different vintage pillars

Blue Package:

I knew doomsday and burning long were going to be in the room, and they are more broken combo decks than I am. Additional Flusterstorms were a choice, and so was misdirection. I came to the conclusion that being able to attack strategies from another angle (especially when tapped out) was the way to go against blue decks.

Dredge package:
This is my normal dredge package. This 6 is SICK with deathrite shaman. Dredge can't deal with diversity like this, along with your countermagic. Stick one piece and ride it long enough to find the next, and wipe the graveyard every now and then. Even with 2 jailers, it's still your best card. If I didn't think oath was in the room, the grafdiggers would have been jailers too. The Nihil spellbomb comes in against welder type decks, plus it's a card draw against some snapcaster type decks. The one-of ravenous trap is great with top deck tutors, and they never see it coming if you've got permanent hate on the board (although i suppose now they might)

Shops:
Plan A is to cast Hurkyl's recall. Plan B is to refer to Plan A. Every card in the sideboard against shops is designed to destroy chalice on 2. If they choose to board in creature kill they will dilute the threat density, which buys time for massive hurks for the win. I'm sure there are better strategies out there, but I don't test against shops that often. I do know how to win when an opponent has no responses to my spells though, so I stick with the hurks strategy.

Oath:

The problem that I typically find with oath decks is that they play with Oath of Druids, and Oath cards. Be a broken blue deck dangit! Predators, claims, grafdiggers, and traps all have the potential to come in against it. Plus, i'm not a creature centered strategy, so i get extra free turns against it.

Aggro:

TOXIC DELUGE IS THE BEST BOARD WIPE IN VINTAGE. Losing to random aggro decks has always been the bane of my existence. Gaddock teeg drives me nuts, and there's countless other little disruptive creatures that can ruin gush's day. Targeted removal takes up too many slots and red weakens the mana base. Go with deluge. I might run 5 in the future.


Notable maindeck choices

Talrand - He's one slot. The other choice is tinker/bot, which is two slots. I hate having the bot dead in my hand, and I'm not running a million Jaces. I played talrand in the past, and was pretty comfortable with him. Unlike pyromancer, when he sticks the game ends FAST, even one or two activations is hard to handle. If you like tinker/bot better, play tinker/bot. Jeremy Beaver told me tinker's a crutch.

Deluge - One slot to steal aggro game ones seemed reasonable. Typically, a list like this chooses to run 10/11 counterspells. I only run 9, but I have deluge and nature's claim, which can answer different threats/more threats after they resolve. combo decks aren't that popular right now, so it's ok to have some spells in the main deck that answer things at sorcery speed, especially creatures.

Nature's claim- I wanted a way to clear blood moon, stony silence, oath of druids, and gain life in case i was low during fastbond. As i mentioned above, I cut a counterspell for this card. I knew oath was going to be around, and artifact/enchantment hate never hurts anyway.

4 Preordain/regrowth - these cards are the "glue" that hold gush together. you need to be able to dig deeep with this deck in order to kill people fast. These cards dig through the deck to chain together multiple gushes and find the kill. Regrowth also recovers a countered will, which is super important, and is time walk #2 when talrand is out. If i could fit more regrowths I would, but one is usually enough


The TOURNAMENT

went 7-2 over the day

I'm only going to post notable interactions/memories, because I'm bad at taking notes

rounds went like so:

Rd 1  Dan Friedman - Pyromancer - win 2-0

Game 1 he mulls and I kill him before I see a wincon. I board out deluge because he's blue. I pay for it hard in game 2 where he has an army of pyromancer tokens, but I rip lotus off the top like a boss, and win a counter war with a hardcast mindbreak trap, and kill him with one life left. You HAVE to have a little luck to do well in an event like this, all there is to it.

Rd 2 Paul Mastriano - Oath - Win 2-1

Game 1 he oaths. He draws a million cards with griselbrand, brings himself down to 2 life with active mana crypt, and attempts to time walk. I flusterstorm. He passes the turn. I pass back, he wins the mana crypt roll. I die.

Game 2. He does not oath. Trygon Predator, nature's claim, Jace the Mind Sculptor Fateseal for the win

Game 3. See Game 2

Rd 3 Marc Tocco  - BUG Fish - Win 2-1

Pretty sketchy memory on these games. He mentioned he top 8'ed legacy champs the day before, which I thought was way cool. He was a little unfamiliar with some of the interactions, and I think I got ahead in one game because he didn't exile my gushes with deathrite shaman, assuming Yawgmoth's will worked like Past in Flames. (He did take a call, time walk, etc., so it probably evened out)

Rd 4 Kevin Cron - Keeper - Loss 1-2

Game 1 I combo kill him very early, maybe like turn 2

Game 2 he rides a single snapcaster to victory beats

Game 3 he wins with deathrite shaman activations

MISPLAY of the Day - In one crucial moment to gain a foothold of the game (maybe game 2), I cast Jace TMS with Force Force Flusterstorm in hand, with one mana open. He counters, I pitch Flusterstorm to Force, figuring that when Jace resolves, I'll brainstorm into the second blue card and be on easy street from here on out. He has the double counter, and Jace doesn't resolve, I'm stuck with nothing in my hand but a blank Force of Will.
Lesson Learned: Don't be too greedy.

Rd 5 Brian Plattenburg - Dredge - Win 2-1

See my sideboard commentary for Dredge. I Haven't lost a set to dredge in a looong time.

Rd 5 Taylor Pratt - Blue Angels - Loss 0-2

Sensei's Divining Top is pretty good, I hear. The ability to always have a counterspell, plus resolve a Jace. These matches were undoubtedly the most lopsided. I need to practice against this deck more or something.

Rd 7 Lance Ballester - Dredge - Win 2-1

See round 5.

Rd 8 Mason Sokol - Plateus - Win 2-0

This guy is in round 8 with an unpowered deck, freakin sweet!

Mainboard deluge saves me game 1, and Talrand does some WORK. Thalia is a monster, and the deck plays lodestone!

Game 2 Don't remember a log about it, but I remember winning with a late game yawg's will

Rd 9 Greg Kraigher - Shops - Win 2-1

Game 1 I get smashed

Game 2 I play a bunch of mana and a shaman over a bunch of turns as I slowly die and get nto a giant hurkyl's and ride the victory train. Best compliment of the day "Your deck DOES actually cast spells!"

Game 3

My turn 1 is nature's claim some threat, lotus mox trygon predator. The concession comes pretty soon after that, as He locked himself under wire for a turn or two as I nommed on artifacts with predator.



Deck has a lot of cool interactions, and can grind out long games against a variety of archetypes. Main kill is tendrils. I won 3-4 games with fateseal on Jace TMS, and 1 Game the entire day with Talrand (he was countered most of the time, or tendrils was an easier kill)

Going to play around with Shaman more. All of his abilities helped throughout the day. Makes Shops and dredge easier matchups, and can eat through control players life totals, and destroy snapcaster targets.



Props

Nick Coss - He's the man. He needs to figure out a way that he can PLAY.
Team Ramrod - Jon Geras and Chris Varosky - Playtest partners, hotel roomies, solid friends. What the format's about.
Full of Win Guys - Random Playtesting and years of gaming
-Chris Materewicz,Nate Thompson,  Dom Difebo, Rob Zimmerman, Anthony Scalzo, Nick Jury, Gery P(Chris gets top billing because he is most likely to mention not getting top billing, all others are random order)
Joe Brown - Recommended Chima - I ate my face off (also random playtesting and years of gaming)
Joe Pace - Put on the daddy pants and organized the trip to Chima (also random testing and years of gaming)
Random Friends along the way - Pretty much EVERYONE, the community rocks.
J.P. Kohler for making the switch to the GUSH side of the force

Slops

Not Winning
Scary homeless people who shout racial obscenities at you as you walk by
Decks that don't play blue cards ( You know who you are, and you should be ashamed)



Please feel free to ask any questions about the deck or the Experience in the comments below, and I'll respond as soon as time allows. I could talk about Gush all day, it's the only deck I've played since it was unrestricted, and I've piloted almost every variant out there at some tournament or another.

As mentioned above, I piloted a gush tendrils variant to the 9th place slot.

I lost to Kevin Cron in a tight 3, and was smashed by the Blue Angels deck lol

I beat Pyromancer, Shops, 2 dredge, Plateaus, BUG fish, and Oath. I was paired up against some world class players, but I was running pretty hot.

One of the lifesaving tech of the day was a pair of toxic deluge. I had one in the main and one in the side.

Typically, I've been able to create gush decks that perform well against both Shops and Blue but have had lackluster performances against the massive amount of creature decks in the meta I'm usually a part of.

I've tried everything from pyromancers to bolts to pyroclasm

The big answers lately have been targeted removal, namely bolts and decays, with snapcaster backup. Both of these options take up way too many slots in a combo deck. Deluge, being black, is a game changer, because I no longer need to commit to the 4th color to deal with aggro threats. I now have a card that is one-slot dedication for aggro decks.

That being said, since the commander decks came out right before the tournament, not everyone that wanted deluges had them.

Played 7 rounds.....5 workshop decks. Lost to Kohler on bomberman in a tight 3 games in the semis. A lot of fun, good to see everyone again

Nick, can you update your spreadsheet to include the NEV Qualifier we had at Full of Win Games?

Prize Breakdown

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44212.0

Tournament Results

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44341.0

Hit me up on my cell if you need more info, been crazy busy lately.

Thanks

I agree, to a point.  I would point out that there's not many games where I land a Jace and it doesn't win me the game against shops, but that's neither here nor there.

Generally speaking, the longer the game goes, the longer the gush deck has to use precious combo resources to try and win. The goal of a gush deck is not to drag the game into overtime, but to find the path to victory as quick as possible, while still being able to protect yourself. Talrand is better suited for decks that have a longer end-game in mind

After testing with Talrand, i agree that empty is the better card, simply because you want your win condition at the END of a spell chain, rather than the beginning. I was 100% on the Talrand plan when it was spoiled, but after trying to get it to work for some time, i came to the conclusion that he's not fit for current gush builds.

I think Talrand is more suitable in a deck like Landstill, or a mono blue control deck, where he can be put on the field, and sit as a win condition with no fear of getting removed. If you're a deck that has multiple turns after the casting of your win condition, I think Talrand is a fine choice.



Please do your own testing to draw your own conclusions, don't take my word for it.

I've been running Gush since it got unrestricted, and I don't think the matchup is as horrible as people make it out to be.

I went 4-2 at worlds (dropped after the second loss when the judge told me the payout was only to top 8)

My wins were against

Shops rd 1
Shops rd 2
Dredge rd 4
Oath     rd 5

My losses were against

BUG fish rd 3 (0-2)
- Game 1, mull to 5, he has turn 1 recall with a force to match mine
- Game 2, mull to 6, lose the card advantage race

Shops rd 6
- Win game 1 on the draw
- Get blown out by double lodestone game 2
- Lost a close game 3, after getting locked out by chalice on 1, then chalice on 2, when i kept the volc in my hand to protect it from wastelands, holding ancient grudge.


In testing, no matchup was unwinnable.

 If the landstill player's last name wasn't potucek, the matchup was over 50% likely to win, if it was josh, then it was 50/50

 Shops has consistently been becoming a better matchup as they change their strategy to beat creature decks

 RUG Delver is a matchup where you have to race damage ( any aggro based deck isn't that great of a matchup, but the delvers fly).

 Oath was probably my best matchup, and I wasn't that concerned with alot of other blue decks.

 Dredge was a fine matchup with the board. I beat it in the prelim and the main event without much trouble. I would've beat it game 1 in the main event if he wasn't mainboarding leylines.



I do like Snapcaster mage though, I used to run him as a 1 of in East Coast Wins, and he really helped to pull from behind.  I think the argument that "It doesn't work with Gush" is irrelivant. You can't snapcaster BOBs either, and they're the draw engine for most non-gush blue decks!

I think snapcaster does some very positive things for gush decks. One of the things I like about it is that it's a creature, in a deck that is NOT creature based. Gush decks that try and run cobra  and bob fall into the same trap....all of their opponent's creature kill spells become active cards. Snapcaster is much more like another instant/sorcery in the deck, and losing his board presence is usually not as crippling as when someone bolts a cobra or a bob.


I, in no means, intend to hijack this thread, but this is the list I ran. I think I will take advice from this thread, and see if we can't make room to squeeze some number of bolts and snapcasters in.

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
2 Mindbreak Trap
4 Gush
3 Mystic Remora
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Preordain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Nature's Claim
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Fastbond
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Repeal
1 Timetwister
1 Rebuild
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

Sideboard
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Flusterstorm
1 Nature's Claim
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ravenous Trap


There were definitely a card or two i'd change in the main/side for the event, but overall I was still very content with the way the deck ran. The more people choose to underrate gush, the better the deck will become.

I would've bet MONEY Soly would've posted a report about the Vintage for Vaults event we played in Saturday, but since he didn't I will, because it was bad beats.

Game 1 I'm forced to mull to 4, my keep is land land force gush.

Soly is on the play

He leads with Mox emerald, Black Lotus, and Tolarian Academy, followed by.... CONSECRATED SPHINX.

I attempt to Force

he forces back!

I do not win this game.

Afterwards Soly, Dan, Joe Brown, and I went a met a couple of the other players at a local bar for some food.


I will say, if you haven't met Soly, don't jump to conclusions. He may have a ridiculous tilt-o-meter when he loses sometimes, and might seem pretty rough on forums, but he was one of the most fun people I met at Gencon, and I had a ton of fun playing against him, and just hanging out. Can't always judge a book by it's cover!

The only logical conclusion is that extremely broken cards are adequate substitutes for extensive playtesting

I'll be down, with a car full

Thanks for all of the positive support, everyone! These things are a ton of fun.

I'm very privileged, as a TO, to have the ability to play in my events, thanks to my partners and staff at Full of Win Games. You have to do what you love, and I love Vintage!

I'm also extremely privileged to be a part of this growing Vintage community. The format is growing, and is more open and diverse than it's been in years. When round one starts, it truly can be anyone's day!

The people that come to these events are some of the chillest people you'll ever meet, and the caliber of player has increased tremendously over the past few years, making the competition even more healthy. You will not find better, more active, or more competitive players than North East players. With Gencon 2012 in the sights of many of our competitors, it's important to get out there and get the most interactive and diverse competition playtesting possible. For the seasoned Vintage Worlds attendees, the value of testing in competition is well known.




To answer Keith's question about my next event, the answer is.... I don't know when my next event will be!

 Looking at the lineup between now and Gencon looks pretty rough honestly. My events are not run as frequently as the other TOs, there's simply too much going on at my shop with the Standard and Modern competitive teams. Also, I REFUSE to double book an event with another Vintage TO. The goal is to spread vintage, and get everyone together and have a good time, not to make people choose one event over another. If it comes between holding a tournament and double booking with another Vintage event, or not holding a tournament, I'm not holding a tournament. Thankfully, this has never happened with my events, and the Vintage TOs have done a really good job at keeping communication tight.

That's the long answer. The short answer is - Probably late August, or Early September. There's plenty of Vintage between now and Worlds, I assure you.

A quick breakdown of Northeast Tournaments between now and Gencon

July 7 - Open, No Vintage

July 14       - Open, No Vintage

July 21:       

Top Deck Games NEV - New Jersey

Myriad Games Vintage - Salem, NH

July 28:

Council Open #5 - Bloomsburg, PA

Mark's Comics      - Valley Stream, NY

August 5  - Open, no Vintage

August 12:

 Save the Date, something in New Jersey!!!

August 19   - GENCON WEEKEND

August 26 - Open, No Vintage (yet?)



I'll definitely be popping up at one or two of these tournaments before Worlds, and I hope to see you all at them as well.


If there's anything I've missed talking about, or anything else that anyone wants to ask, just post it on here, I'm always around.

First of all, thanks to everyone that came out to support this AWESOME day of Vintage.

35 players were in attendance, 6 rounds of swiss with a cut to top 8. At the end of the day, it was two TOs that made it to the finals!

The Metagame Breakdown:

Combo: (4)

Remora Tendrils      1
Gitaxian TPS           1
Bob Tendrils           1
U/W Bomberman    1
U/W/B Bomberman 1


Oath:(3)

Griselbrand Oath  2
Black/Green Oath 1

Aggro: (13)

Delver Aggro    4
Wizards            1
Noble Fish        5
Cavern Goblins  1
Dark Times       1
Bant Aggro      1

Shops: (5)

Metalworker   1
Martello         1
Aggro           1
Cat Stax        1
Welder          1


Control: (9)

Strix Control         3
Four Color Control 1
Key/Vault Control  3
Four Color Landstill 1
URB Landstill          1



Top 8 Pairings were as follows:
 
Quarter Finals -

Picozzo, Vito (Remora Tendrils) vs. Kinney, Mark (Strix)-         Picozzo Wins
Grasso, AJ (Landstill) Vs. Zimmerman, Rob (Strix) -                Grasso Wins
Griffiths, Shawn (Martello) Vs. Kohler,Justin (Bomberman) -    Griffiths Wins
Edwards, Rob (4CC) Vs. Geras, Johnathan (Noble Fish) -        Edwards Wins

Semi Finals -

Picozzo, Vito Vs. Edwards, Rob - Picozzo Wins
Griffiths, Shawn Vs Grasso, AJ - Griffiths Wins

Finals

Picozzo, Vito Vs. Griffiths, Shawn - Picozzo wins (SPLIT)


Finalist – Vito Picozzo – “Full of Win Remora Tendrils”

4 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Mystic Remora
2 Mana Drain
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Misdirection
2 Repeal
4 Gush
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Fastbond
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Nature's Claim
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Timetwister

SB
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Ravenous Trap
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Nature's Claim
1 Pyroclasm
1 Dismember
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast

Finalist – Shawn Griffiths – “Martello”

4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 City of Traitors
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinisphere
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kudoltha Forgemaster
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sundering Titan
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Duplicant

SB:
4 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Ensaring Bridge
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Duplicant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Semi- Finalist – Rob Edwards – “4CC”

2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 snow-covered Island
1 Mountain
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tinker
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Trygon Predator
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Goblin Welder
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Firespout
1 Lava Dart
1 Fire//Ice
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Nature’s Claim
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Mindbreak Trap

Semi-Finalist – AJ Grasso – “Me Fish"

2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Black Lotus
4 Standstill
1 Fire//Ice
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Dismember
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Wasteland
3 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Misdirection
4 Mana Drain
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Strip Mine
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Underground Sea
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Energy Flux
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Steel Sabotage
SB:
3 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Planar Void
4 Yixlid Jailer
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Energy Flux
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mental Misstep

Quarter Finalist – Justin Kohler – “Red Deck Wins”

2 Auriok Salvagers
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Trinket Mage
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Flusterstorm
3 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Time Walk
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Plains
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
SB:
1 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Kataki, War’s Wage
3 Energy Flux
1 Pithing Needle


Quarter Finalist – Mark Kinney- Strix Control

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Skullclamp
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Dark Confidant
3 Goblin Welder
3 Baleful Strix
1 Myr Battlesphere
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Gifts Ungiven

SB:
4 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Yixlid Jailer
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Flusterstorm
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Mountain
1 Offalsnout
1 Executioner’s Capsule

Quarter Finalist – Rob Zimmerman – Strix Control

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
4 Force of Will
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Sol Ring
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Tinke
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Time Walk
2 Flusterstorm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mental Misstep
2 Goblin Welder
3 Baleful Strix
4 Dark Confidant
2 Mana Drain
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Lightning Bolt

SB:
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Old Man of The Sea
1 Dismember
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Mountain
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Flusterstorm

Quarter Finalist – Jonathan Geras – “Ramrod Noble Fish”

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Quasali Pridemage
4 Meddling Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Trygon Predator
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Stony Silence
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Strip Mine

SB:
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Flusterstorm
2 Trygon Predator
1 Plains
3 Path To Exile
2 Scavenging Ooze

Thanks again to everyone that made it out. This was a GREAT time. If you haven't been to one of these yet, you're missing out. You will not find a more chill environment to sling cardboard. If you DID make it out, post your props and slops!

Thanks again for the support, and let's keep vintage in the North East going strong as we prepare for GENCON 2012.

See you there!
-V

Shawn and Vito split the finals. Shawn takes Ruby, Vito takes the invite. 35 players, really solid field. A lot of aggro. Decklists and full report will be up soon

If anyone has an interest in getting to this, and needs a ride, be sure to post on the thread. I'll do my best to try and see what contacts we have in the community, maybe someone's swinging your way!



As a side note guys, in addition to all of the other 1st place prizes, you DO get to select the card art for the NEXT Full of Win Vintage Series playmat. The only rule is that it must be a card in your deck! Dust off those crazy one-ofs!

I've always found one flaw in the Oath of Druids plan.

It relied on Oath of Druids.


This is a combo deck that oaths into bargains, all of my usual concerns about the delicate oath shell are null here. I have nothing bad to say, this deck looks awesome.