I agree that Vault + Key is downright terrible against fish, and if fish is a lot of your local metagame, you shouldn't bother with it.  What about as a sideboard option against some of the other decks like Tez and Oath?

I'm a bit confused about the game you mentioned with Pithing Needle though.  Why would the opponent side in a Needle against TPS and then name Time Vault, since vault is just a sideline to TPS?  Clearly it worked in that game, but it seems like a pretty large gamble.  How did he even know that you kept Vault + Key for the second game?  It might be that Time Vault works better in the deck if you play the combo as an accidental "oops, I just won" and not a deck focus.  That makes it much harder to sideboard against.  No one will board in naturalize variants just to deal with one Time Vault that you're not actively trying to put into play.

You make a good point about the lack of things to cut in the deck, something I hinted at earlier.  Under no circumstances would I cut the giant robot, since removing it makes Tinker much worse in general.  My best guess was cutting a top-heavy blue card like Fact or Fiction, but as you note, this makes Force of Will worse.  This is another reason I prefer DSC in the Giant Robot slot, bu the way-- you can pitch him to Force of Will.

Anyway, at this point I suspect you are correct that including Vault + Key is a net negative for most metagames, but I still might try it out and see exactly why.  If nothing else, it will give me new appreciation for the cards I cut.

I appreciate your feedback, despite the hyperbole.  Your argument is that including Vault + Key makes you vulnerable to anti-artifact cards, when this deck already has issues with Null Rod.  You argue that including the combo reduces the deck's consistency but doesn't actually add diversity because Null Rod still attacks both game plans.

For the record, it would never cost 2 tutors.  It only costs 1, because you'd only use a tutor if you drew half of the combo.  This isn't a Tez deck where plan A is to get Vault + Key into play.  If you don't draw either card, it's no different from not drawing a Brainstorm or a Ponder.  You would never tutor for Ponder.

I think your argument is compelling, but it's still just theory.  For reference, here was my original question:


I'm still curious if anyone has actual experience including Time Vault in the deck and seeing how it changed match ups.  Theory can't substitute for the results from actual testing.

Has anyone tested the Time Vault / Voltaic Key combo in TPS?

I was initially attracted to TPS combo decks because the card quality is so high.  To quote Mike Flores, "The best decks play the best cards," and one of the best two card combos in Vintage right now is Time Vault + Key.  Given the number and quality of Tutors in TPS, it seems like drawing any pair of these cards can be converted to a win in many situations:

Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Imperial Seal
Mystical Tutor
Merchant Scroll
Tinker
Gifts Ungiven (for 3 tutors + Ancestral)
Time Vault
Voltaic Key

That's any pair of 9 cards-- more if you're running Grim Tutor(s).

I particularly liked this diagram in smmenen's article on playing TPS: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16330_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Winning_With_TPS.html  The point being that there are many engines in the deck which all feed into Yawgmoth's Will and eventually Tendrils.  On the surface, adding another game winning engine seems good, because it diversifies the kind of attacks the opponent must react to.  It's also nice having a win condition that works with a low storm count, and it can win games in do-or-die situations where Tinkering for Sphinx is a turn too slow.

But I recognize that diversity comes with a price.  You can't strengthen one engine without weakening another, and drawing just a Time Vault or just a Voltaic Key in isolation will always be worse than whatever card would alternatively be in that slot.  Time Vault is as much a dead draw as Sphinx.  Voltaic Key is another Sol Ring if you've drawn Mana Vault.  If only have Mana Crypt or Sol Ring, then the Key is an off color mox.  And other than that, it's a dead draw too.  I suppose it can wash your black mana into blue if you have a Mox Sapphire out, but that's not really a selling point.

I'm not familiar enough with the deck to suggest what two cards to cut to test this out.  I don't think there's room in any build running Dark Confidant.  For those without him, perhaps cut a land down to 13 and a Cabal Ritual?  Something like this:


1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Voltaic Key
4 Dark Ritual

1 Time Vault
1 Memory Jar
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Force of Will
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Don't think for a moment that WotC is trying to kill Vintage and Legacy to drive people to newer formats with lower barrier to entry but higher incremental cost.  There's no reason to believe disenfranchised Vintage players will suddenly switch to a format like Standard.  Most likely they will play some other low incremental cost format like EDH, or just quit the game altogether.  WotC doesn't want to encourage the FNM Standard crowd to start playing Legacy and Vintage instead because that's an actual income loss.  But reducing Vintage players doesn't result in an income gain, and reduces the overall number of Magic players (which is bad for the Magic brand as a whole).

Or think about it like this.  If Wizards really wanted to kill Vintage, they wouldn't do it by making no changes to the restricted list.  They could just stop sanctioning tournaments.  Or worse, they could do away with the restricted list altogether.  Imagine how heinous Vintage would be if the official format allowed and basically required 4 Black Lotus per deck, 4 Ancestral Recall, and so on.  That's the quickest way to kill the format.

The other thing to keep in mind is that restricting is not an exact science, something that's obvious when you listen to the debates about whether Ponder and Gush deserve to be restricted.  There exist multiple potential Vintage metagames.  In some of these, Gush is restricted and in others Gush is not.  I'm sure both environments would be interesting in different ways, but it's not immediately clear which one is more interesting.  Sadly, there can only be one official Vintage format, and that means sometimes WotC has to make judgment calls about borderline cases.  A restriction can be less obvious than Black Lotus and still help the environment as a whole.