I was just thinking - the mirari (Legendary artifact, costs 5, anytime you cast an instant or sorcery, you may spend 3 to add another copy of that spell to the stack, and you may choose a new target)

This seems great for this deck ... you can fork the sinkholes, the mindtwist, hymns, durress, sinkhole or befoul (particularly befoul as you could take out two creatures or lands or one of each)

The cost is relatively high but I think bearable

Maybe this as the new list:
Lands:
Strip mine 1
Wasteland 4
Swamp 16

Creatures:
Hypnotic Specter 4
Hollow Specter 4
Silent Specter 2
Demoic Hordes 4

Sorceries:
Mind Twist 1
Hymn of Tourach 4
Duress 4
Sinkhole 4
Befoul 2

Instants:
Dark Ritual 4

Enchantments:
Necromancy 3

Artifacts:
Mirari 1
Mox Jet 1
Black Lotus 1


Is there enough of a win condition here?  I figure the discard combined with land destruction should keep an opponent bottled up relatively well

But that is a big if ... and against real power, it is probably in trouble ....

Oh well

Thanks
Schreier

I am not sure if this qualifies as suicide black - but how does it look?  It is basically a type 1.5 deck ... I guess I would add a mox jet and strip mine to make it type 1, taking out a swamp and either a befoul or a disrupting scepter ...

Is it too single minded (well - I guess dual minded - land and hand destruction)?

Anything that should not be there or that are there in too great of numbers ... this is not intended to be an overly competitive deck, just fun (for me at least)


Lands:      
Wasteland   4
Swamp 16
      
Creatures:      
Hypnotic Specter 4
Hollow Specter 4
Silent Specter 3
Demoic Hordes 3
      
Sorceries:      
Mind Twist   1
Hymn of Tourach 4
Duress 4
Sinkhole 4
Befoul 3
      
Instants:      
Dark Ritual 4

Enchantments:      
Animate Dead 2

Artifacts:      
Disrupting Scepter 4

Thanks again ... just looking through everything, why does no one use the ice age card diabloic vision?  It seems like as good of a search engine as many other cards ...

Casting cost
Blue / Black
Sorcery
Look at the top five cards of your library and put one of the into you hand.  Put the remaining four on top of your library in any order


Is it just that it is a sorcery?  The cost isn't that much -- about the same as demonic tutor considering how many blue mana sources are in a 4ccontrol deck ...

Other cards I am curious about:
Tolarian academy
crucible of worlds
zuran orb
burning wish
dismantling blow

I am guessing:
Tolarian: not enough artifacts to support it w/ general build (but maybe if you add the crucible and zuran)

Crucible of worlds: saw another article -- seems like it may be added

Zuran Orb - not generally used b/c it costs mana producing land

Burning wish - not blue (can't be tossed) and not many sorceries to summon maybe?

Dismantling blow - too expensive maybe?


Also - in the 4ccontrol primer in the primer forum group, it was originally called keeper ... and a find/replace was used to change all "keeper" to "4ccontrol" -- the author stopped using keeper and instead used the term clinger ... and several references make no sense with 4ccontrol - not sure if it is worth editing.

Thanks again!

Thank you all for the quick responses ... the lack of land based mana does make a lot of sense w/ drain power ... it won't tap moxes .... so they still have relatively good mana sources ...

With fork - some spells I mentioned were copying opponents spells ... but you can also copy your own -- a forked time walk, a forked decree (if you have the 2 red, it is much more efficient - it will double the summoned angels), a forked braingeyser, etc .... that being said ... the mana is an issue it seems with the more color versatile decks ...

i will probably try to playtest the fork, but just give up on drain power ...

I will scour the forums -- last question -- there are always arguments going back and forth and back and forth ...

Is 4ccontrol still very viable as a top deck?  Also - I have never seen it explicity defined - I am assuming 4ccontrol is 4color control?  Stupid question I know - but I am 8 years out

Thanks,
schreier

First time poster so please don't roast me too badly

I am getting back into magic after a hiatus of like 8 years ... LONG LONG time I know ... I used to love playing a blue/red deck, and I was lucky enough to discover the utility of mana drains back then - so I got them for $2 a piece ...

that being said, I am trying to find my "deck" (i.e. the deck I want to build).  I found beyond domania with the 360 page dissertation on the deck (the control bible) and found it very interesting but then found that the weissman deck is no longer really viable with the fast bulds .... that is pointing me towards either landstill or 4ccontrol ...

Two cards I used to love were drain power and fork ... both 2 casting cost .... both had HUGE effects at time ... I realize both mana being spent are colored, which may cause problems with the 4ccontrol mana base ... but they seem so flexible

Does anyone use these cards anymore?  I've seen a few references to fork (it can work against so many power cards - brain geyser, skeletal scrying, any of the tutors, ancestral recall, decree of justice, hymn, yawgmoths will).  With drain power ... it is blue (can be tossed to force of will), 2 mana should not be a problem ... and with the need for speed ... I would think that an early drain power could be powerful ... at the very least, it HAS to be countered.

I am guessing the fact that drain power is a sorcery is what really stops it ... I guess I just figured I'd ask if anyone had tried it or if it is just TOO slow

Lastly - I've found some good links to decks -- but are there any GREAT links describing everything about these various decks (kinda like the control bible) - breaks down the chosen cards and the left out cards, the playing strategies and thought processes ... generally the lists I've found are just lists with some high level or some card specific discussions.

Thanks
Schreier