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1  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck]Tyrant Blue - (Kid Tested, TMD approved) on: February 29, 2008, 12:52:58 pm
I think more to the point, if you weren't a solid control player before, this deck won't fix what ails you.  It is a very fun, and very effective deck.  The ability to dig itself out of a hole with show and tell or a well drained spell is quite a testament to it.

Fundamentally its no different than BBS a from a few years ago, it just has a combo finish and a creature that is cheaper to protect/win with than morphling, and can be used for board control (a huge bonus).

To successfully pilot the deck you need to be fully aware of what you're playing against and protect yourself accordingly, hold brainstorms to protect yourself vs duress, setup drains and attempt to maximize your card advantage.  The deck can go from clinging on to each card for life, to combo win in a hurry.




Conversely the addition of black for duress/tutor/what-have-you is not a good decision.  At that point you're replacing the sorcery speed effects of the deck with other decisions which go against the flow of the deck, and introducing weaknesses to the deck (ie. wasteable lands, inability to have blue cards to pitch to FoW or MisD when needed)

However I admit I have only spent a few play sessions with it.  Those that I did spend with it, I quickly became impressed by the abilities of the deck.  I found myself mindslaving frequently (I'd estimate 70% of the games).

The sideboard is something I want to play with.  Maybe a transformational into a mono blue mask-nought, or a more traditional blue solution oriented setup. (BEBs, Energy Flux, etc.)
2  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Results for Atlanta Emerald on: October 15, 2007, 07:17:15 am
Buying: Second land draw in third game vs U/W Fish.

Selling: 4 Force of wills
3  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Sui Black - Let's try this again.... on: August 09, 2007, 10:03:42 am
I tried this morning to put together what i'd play if i were to play a mono  {B} build of this, i came up with:

Quote
// Lands
        7 Swamp
        4 Bloodstained Mire
        1 Strip Mine
        4 Wasteland
        1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// Creatures
        3 Phyrexian Negator
        4 Dark Confidant
        2 Nantuko Shade
// Enchantments
        3 Chains of Mephistopheles
// Spells
        1 Diabolic Edict
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        4 Dark Ritual
        1 Demonic Tutor
        4 Duress
        1 Imperial Seal
        4 Sinkhole
        4 Unmask
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
// Artifacts
        3 Chalice of the Void
        1 Lotus Petal
        2 Powder Keg
        2 Sensei's Divining Top
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Jet

// Sideboard
SB:  1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB:  1 Chalice of the Void
SB:  1 Darkblast
SB:  2 Diabolic Edict
SB:  4 Engineered Plague
SB:  2 Powder Keg
SB:  4 Leyline of the Void

I really like the top + confidant draw engine.  And i know i really liked having 8 duress effects in the deck over 4 duress 4 hymns.  With all the mis-d's running around these days i REALLY prefer unmask.  (not nearly as bad a thing to have it misdirected, you can always fail to find in your hand.)

i really like the land denial of the wastes + sinks, gives a solid disruption base for your other things to have a chance to stall your opponent more effectively.  Chalice + chains can be brutal when used correctly.

And of course the 'tuko can end a game pretty quickly if he has to. 


The sideboard i'm still working on.  4 leylines is a given in today's day and age it seems, also with dark rituals you have a better chance of a turn 1 leyline than most decks.  I've liked a darkblast against fishy stuff for a while now, reusable spot removal is fantastic in this deck. 

The engineered plague is my solution to the insta flash kill of the slivers thing.  I know its an enchant, but its not like a turn 0 contagion is going to save you, you still die in another turn when he swings again.
4  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Sui Black - Let's try this again.... on: August 01, 2007, 03:17:53 pm
I stand corrected.  THE CHAINS!
5  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Sui Black - Let's try this again.... on: August 01, 2007, 12:55:11 pm
I also like the idea of the chains for the hymns, but i do like to draw with my confidants  Sad

But I will probly give it a shot with em maindeck.  I love bringing em in, I suppose it might be time to do it big like that.
6  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Sui Black - Let's try this again.... on: August 01, 2007, 12:38:12 pm
Having played more sui black than I really should admit to, I found several things about the deck that i think might help you a bit.

My most recent build of a mono black build included illusionary mask and phyrexian dreadnought and got me top 8 in a recent Atlanta tournament.

Quote
// Everett Steil Blackmask

// Lands
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    10 Swamp

// Creatures
    3 Phyrexian Negator
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Dark Confidant

// Spells
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Necropotence
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Grim Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Demonic Consultation
    4 Illusionary Mask
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Black Lotus
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Chalice of the Void
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 2 Powder Keg
SB: 3 Contagion
SB: 3 Chains of Mephistopheles

This build was similar to something i used to play quite a bit a LONG time ago.  (pre BOB's and chalice's)  I found the chalice for 0 to be a nice addition, as it kept several angels off the table and helped with mana denial.  One of the primary strengths of the deck is the explosive first turn potential.  Dark ritual opens up so many options for this deck, I still think its worth playing, IF you can live with the unpredictability inherit in it.

The mask-nought isn't something that is neccesarliy for everyone, as it is "bad" and "slow", but i always found it to be a nice addition to sui black as a fast game ender after you've blown your load disrupting.  It also allows for your creatures to be uncounterable or disrupted via trinisphere or SoR.

Still, it isn't without its own problems, the mask must hit play, and adds to the extensive list of 2cc cards that a chalice for 2 gives the middle finger to already. 

That being said, I think the Dark Confidant gives this deck new life.  It REALLY helps it hum along.  The low casting cost of all the spells mixed with the extra pressure he provides gives the deck a new driving force.  First turn swamp, dark ritual, duress, confidant is quickly replacing the Swamp, ritual, duress, hymn as my favorite play.




The addition of White to the deck might seem like the fix, I've actually had more luck with a red splash.  What I'm very pleased with lately is the following:

Everett Steil     Grown Man Bidness

// Lands
    4 Swamp
    4 Snow-Covered Swamp
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Badlands
    1 Mountain

// Creatures
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Dark Confidant
    2 Hunted Horror
    3 Grim Lavamancer

// Spells
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Tainted Pact
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Demonic Consultation
    4 Illusionary Mask
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Black Lotus
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Mox Ruby
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Duress
    2 Shattering Spree
    1 Powder Keg

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 3 Chains of Mephistopheles



Which is just my attempt to answer the problems with the mask which were always null rod and pithing needle.  The flexibility of shattering spree is the perfect answer to this.  By replicating it, it forces the opponent to deal with more than 1 spell, AND it gets rid of chalice, chalice for 1 even! (which i find to be highly of the wtf variety)

Upon further exploration into red, I found that the magus offered a great solution to my opponents having better lands than I did.  It can drop early, get in under a mask, and provides fantastic disruption vs. almost every deck in the format.

The addition to red also shores up a third shortcoming of the deck, staxx.  Being able to kill welders with lavamancers and having shattering sprees for their lock pieces is a godsend.  Previously the deck had to out broke staxx by going first and hope for the best, this goes a long way to fixing that.

But It could still use a little tweaking I know, I've been tinkering with it since early June and am pretty happy with it so far.  The only thing I'm REALLY not happy with are the hymns.  Some games they are fantastic, others they just kinda sit there.  I wanna try dropping the three of them and:

 -3 hymn to tourach
+2 Sensai's Divining Top (combos well with the confidant, sac lands and vamp tutor, and helps me dig for either mask or nought)
+1 Diabolic edict  (always loved having one first game to tutor for.  Killed a few Dryads/Angles back in the day)

But I'm always open to criticism or discussion.  Hope this helps or inspires you.  Very Happy
7  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: 1-Land Belcher on: July 20, 2007, 01:52:45 pm
-edit

Nevermind, always remember to read before you post kids!

8  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: URBana Fish--The Solution to the metagame on: July 03, 2007, 12:14:53 pm
Quote
Also I'm a bit confused by the 4  gorilla shaman.  Really? 4 shamans? thats whats goin on in the streets now?

It is your deck after all, and if you're comfortable with the control magic's, then so be it.  I just don't think I could play with em.  Why not cut the control magics for something a bit better? another counter effect and a couple of bounce? maybe try the needles maindeck in their spot.
 

Shamans are a 1 drop that turns into a turn 2 ninja.  With Ninja as half of your draw engine, you need it going on turn 2 or 3 (3 if you had to spend turn 1 disrupting).  Vandal is much worse--you can't just plop him down and clear the opposing board.  No list of URBana has been without 4 Monkeys for a reason. 

What would be better than Control Magic at handling troublesome creatures like Welder, big artifact guys, grunt, and Dryad?  The thing about Lavamancer is you must get him down before they play a Dryad--and that's not always feasible.  CM's magic is in its versatility.  Playtesting had me stealing mostly Salvagers and Dryads.  In the tournament I stole a Razia, a Welder, and a Juggernaut--all for wins.  I also pitched it to Force a lot against quick Flashes.  No other card offers that versatility.  I know it looks like ass--I had the same initial reaction.  Once you try it out though chances are you'll appreciate it.  I came back to our boards and started raving about how great CM was after I had initially said "that looks like crap", then my teammate Ben Roberts ended up going through the same thing I did.

Its true, it does look like ass at first glance, but you make a good point.  I would feel more comfortable at first going with 2 CM's and 4 waterfront bouncers though.  Having not played through the deck more than just a little solitare action, its hard to say with any certainty here from work  Wink 

I'm sure you have, but did you consider non-targeted creature kill rather than jacking creatures? Diabolic edicts, et al.



I see your point about getting the ninja online asap, I just don't like ninjas and confidants in the same deck  Sad  with 11 cards that will hit you for 4 or more, I just get unlucky i guess with them.  I usually end up hitting myself for too much each game with Confidants.  I know you could bounce em or ninja them out, but doesn't that kind of detract from your "messing with your opponent" ability and turn your attention to keeping yourself alive? 

And related to the ninja thing, if you're spending your mana the first two turns exclusively on getting a ninja in play, wouldn't daze be better than mana leak?  Did you find yourself just SCREAMING for a daze at some point?  I know leak performs better in later turns, but you can get yourself in a real ugly situation early without countering that second turn spell.
9  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: URBana Fish--The Solution to the metagame on: July 03, 2007, 09:16:39 am
Or they wait till you shoot, then play 2 in response?

But you are correct, it was my mistake. 
10  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: URBana Fish--The Solution to the metagame on: July 03, 2007, 08:46:21 am
Lavamancer seems much better than Sulfur Elemental, itīs cheaper, it effects not only white creatures and itīs a hell for GAT to play a dryad, when your lavamancer is untapped, cause they must have three other spells to let her survive, as you shoot her in reaction to the first trigger.

That just isn't true.  You shoot in response to the first spell being played, its already a 2/2.  They respond to the effect again its a 3/3.  They only need 2 spells.

Not really sure what you are referring to.

Edit.

Moreover, the Goblin vandal idea is just simply worse than main decking shattering spree.  Shattering spree can kill a chalice for 1 or get in while you have a chalice for 1, kill three arties for  {R} {R} {R} when under a trinisphere and is just plain faster than the vandal. 
11  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: URBana Fish--The Solution to the metagame on: July 03, 2007, 07:05:34 am
Yeah the sulfur elemental looks interesting, but is it really THAT much better than a grim lavamancer?  Having the ability to shoot opposing Dark Confidants and bouncers would tip any fish match up in your favor, not just those with buckets of white creatures.

Also I'm a bit confused by the 4  gorilla shaman.  Really? 4 shamans? thats whats goin on in the streets now?

It is your deck after all, and if you're comfortable with the control magic's, then so be it.  I just don't think I could play with em.  Why not cut the control magics for something a bit better? another counter effect and a couple of bounce? maybe try the needles maindeck in their spot.

12  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Full Mind Twist on: June 25, 2007, 06:53:39 am
While yes I admit that Mind Twist can be a potential bomb if dropped within the first couple of turns for more than 2 cards, I wonder about its use in a day and age when Miss-d's run rampant.

With the coming increase in GAT decks, Fish-esque decks and other decks that run pitch counters, I'm thinking the game destroying potential of mind twist isn't worth the risk.  Wouldn't you be better off running duress and 4 other cards that are a must counter threat rather than leaving yourself open to having your own hand destroyed?
13  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Full Mind Twist on: June 22, 2007, 08:26:58 am
I foresee a fundamental flaw with the idea of sinking mana into a mind twist second or third turn when you could just sink mana into other outlets and just win with tendrils combo. 

Given a Mana drain on something with cc  {2} (which isn't uncommon):

Wouldn't you rather cunning wish with {2} or intuition? or tap  {U} {1} for FoF?

i guess you could twist for 2.   Just seems rather against the overall flow of the deck you have it in.

And isn't confidant a little slow for what you're trying to do?
14  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Is it just me, or is oath terrible? on: June 22, 2007, 08:15:18 am
Quote
I think it's a properly tuned Oath deck can be an excellent ambush deck, but is easily prepared for if it ever became a metagame consideration, which it isn't.

I'm afraid i have to agree with Zherbus here.  Oath still posses a level of power that gives it a home amongst vintage decks these days, albeit a bungalow, a home none the less.

As zeus-online said, one of the real boons of oath is the compact size of the carpool needed to make it operate.  A few lands, a few oaths and the deck was good to go.

Oathing out big fast creatures is a good game finisher, but there has to be a way to stop your opponent for at least 3 turns.  If the main concern of the deck is its lack of ability to prevent your opponent from doing what they do via the standard mana drain/force/daze setup, maybe a different approach is preferable?  Call me crazy, but a more proactive disruption base might be just what the doctor ordered.  Duress, wastelands/strip and chalices seem to be far more effective these days than a fistful of hard counters.
 
As a big proponent of  {B} magic, i say throw in 4 duresses, some black tutors and see where it gets you.  I have found recently at 4 duress + 3 chalice + some land disruption to be a pretty solid means as of late.  Granted I'm playing mask-nought, the concept is similar though.  We both try to throw down an enabler and beat face quickly there after.

edit.

Quote
Oath IS the "superior control deck" in most matchups. FOW, Mana Drain, Duress, Chalice, Null Rod, Wasteland, and Echoing Truth are all great disruption that the deck packs. That's a lot of disruption. Chalice of the Void is a highly underrated card, it's like your 9th-15th counterspell, yet some Oath builds don't run Chalice. Having the right list (ICBM anyone?) makes all the difference.

It seems a stretch to me to call oath a control deck in todays day and age.  It seems more of a "please god let me get this oath down and protect my creatures" deck rather than control.  In that sense, it has an air of combo to it, it tries to hit a card, Oath, then protects it as best it can.
15  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Results Atlanta May 26th for a mox pearl on: May 31, 2007, 06:02:32 pm
Mac Steil here,

Had a blast playing my old deck Razz  sui with mask.  Its fantastic to see this many people in the Atlanta area excited about vintage.  It was a lonely and barren landscape for a number of years around here.


However, I admit, I played a scrub deck, but i enjoyed it all the same.  I went with sui figuring on a great deal of combo and control stuff floating around at the tourney.  That, and I have deck A.D.D.  Hard for me to choose what to play from time to time.

As a side note, could grabbed game two from Bo i think in the T8, made a mistake by chalice'ing for 0 rather than 1, like an idiot.  Let me know if anyone wants to playtest anything, always up for shuffling a deck or two.
16  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [deck] Crushing Chamber-Mono Brown aggro on: September 13, 2004, 11:17:21 pm
I don't really know if this helps but i'll give it a go.

Over the past 4-5 weeks i have been playing a decklist extreemly close to yours purple hat.  ( i think i run one more crucible than you at the moment.)

Anywho i made top 8 at dragon-con with it after much beat distributing and many matches explaining that yes token creatures do indeed touch the graveyard.

my comments heretofore are twofold...

1.  are you resolved to just accepting a first turn trinisphere and attempting to playing through it or do you have some other idea for it?  it seemed like a first turn 3sphere with a waste in their hand was scoop-em-ups time.  ( had some ideas about a splash of red for some rebs and artifact d, but just can't seem to get them hashed out, i am more than willing to share them if you are interested. )

2.  Have you yet had the insano damage hand? =)  2 tourneys ago in warner robbins GA, i hit some poor soul on the third turn with a 111/1 ornithopter.  

for those of you saying WTF...

(opening hand- workshop, mox, mox,  frogmite, skullclamp, sol ring, genesis chamber)

first turn:    workshop, mox, mox,  clamp, genesis chamber,  sol ring, froggie, clamp the extra, ( draw into chamber myr enforcer) , drop chamber enforcer.  pass turn

turn two:  (draw into  tolarian academy [ooooh buddy] ),  drop tolarian, tap sol ring clamp the 2 extra myrs, (draw into  plating, crusher, ornithopter, grim monolith) ,  drop crusher,  drop thopter,  tap tolarian add 13 blue to mana pool,  clamp the 4 myr tokens,  ( draw into thopter, froggie, skull clamp, cranial plating, crucible of worlds, ravager, mox, wasteland)  drop mox, ravager, froggie,  the other clamp, the other plating, and pass the turn.

turn three: (draw into other cranial plating),   tap sol ring, drop plating, tap to add 19 blue to mana pool, double clamp frogmite, (draw into ancient tomb, skull clamp, lotus, last cranial plate), drop lotus, the clamp and the plate, drop ancient tomb, clamp ravager,  draw into 2 myr enforcers, drop em, clamp 2 extra myrs, draw into mana crypt, workshop, skull clamp ( last one), crucible of worlds) drop those, put all 4 plates on ornithopter, beat in the mouth for a whole bunch.

well i'm sure most of this post is a waste of your time, but i made my day a bit better by actually having this happen.  Don't know if it helps you out either, but damnit....i had fun.

27 artifacts X 4 cranial plates = 108
2 skull clamps =  2
1 clamped ravager = 1 modular counter

108 + 2 + 1 = 111 damage from ornithopter, i had a 30/30 crusher too, but hey, who is countin right?
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