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1  Eternal Formats / Midwest U.S. / Re: Xtreme Games Monthly Vintage 2/27/16 on: February 23, 2016, 10:46:28 pm
There will be at least one full carload of people coming from Chicago proper for this, and possibly more from the suburbs.
2  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Survival of the Fittest - still good enough in Type 4? on: January 06, 2016, 01:12:31 pm
Survival of the Fittest used to be fantastic in Type 4, and slightly incentivize people to draft a couple more creatures than they normally might, and also could fetch up your best creatures. With the power level and opportunity cost growing with each passing set, has Survival's time come and gone? It routinely is one of the last cards picked in our Rochester piles.

Discuss.
3  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] The Magic Online Power Nine Challenge Metagame (really) on: December 14, 2015, 03:38:52 am
This is an extremely valuable article and service performed for the community.  I'm grateful for the dedication put into keeping a robust and healthy amount of data available for my favorite format, Vintage.  And thank you for the kind words regarding my Mentor list.  One of the sites out there I believe has the decklist wrong, and the one linked to should have -1 Tropical Island, -1 Tundra, -1 Sol Ring and +2 Volcanic Island, +1 Preordain.  I thoroughly enjoyed the article.  I also think Shawn's Erayo list is very intriguing and was glad to read about it. 

-Brian
Fixed numbers on decklist, thank you for that info!
4  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Current List? on: December 11, 2015, 12:03:17 am
Current list/article now up here:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/type4update2015q4/
5  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Epic Experiment! on: December 08, 2015, 02:19:30 pm
Nah man, we don't play that. Too busted.
6  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Current List? on: November 26, 2015, 02:42:52 am
Maybe this is super off-topic, maybe it's not. I'll drop it here anyway:

There's a new game that was just kickstartered, called "Epic" which is actually pretty close to Type 4 (but not MTG obviously). The whole set is designed to be draftable, has spells that cost 1 and zero, and you have a total of 1 mana per turn only.

It is pretty awesome so far, and actually uses a lot design space that is generally not relevant to Magic cards (they are after all not designed for Type 4).
I actually played this a couple of weeks ago at a board gaming get together, and it's much different than Magic. There are no responses allowed. You just play your cards out, so it requires different lines of thinking, but is pretty fun and fast, and seems to have lots of replayability (and is very cheap!).
7  Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Current List? on: November 26, 2015, 02:40:16 am
You can check the Type 4 mesage thread on here. We usually list all the cards to get or not in the recent sets.

Wagner,

Appreciate it, but I've already done that.  Those threads would have you believe that everyone's stack has simply grown by 100 cards over the past few years.  Smile  I'm wondering what the full snapshot is for someone that has been maintaining a list all along, with adds and cuts.
I'll have my updated stack/spreadsheet in an article on EC early next week hopefully. I'm in the middle of updating it now for past couple years' worth of cards.
8  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dark Depths Dredge Post MTGO Power 9 Challenge on: October 29, 2015, 02:52:41 pm
I don't think you are fully understanding how these decks and matchups play out. If you want to familiarize yourself with the Depths plan more, these are essential reading before you "theorycraft" or anything else:
Adam Pierce aka AJFirecracker aka kingneckbeard's introduction here: http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
Adam Pierce aka AJFirecracker aka kingneckbeard's continuing discussion here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46708.60
Lance Ballester aka vaughbro's explanation and tournament report here: http://blackmagicgaming.com/dr-edges-lab-report/

Trying to jam a bunch of Serenity and other anti-hate cards into the deck doesn't make much sense, when the entire point of the Depths transformation/alternate plan of attack is by dedicating so many slots to obviating the hate entirely to begin with.

I have tested and played numerous versions of these decks over the past few months leading up to Vintage Champs, and it was one of the 2 decks I brought to Vintage Champs to play. Riftstone Portal is decent in the deck, but I certainly didn't think it merited being a 4-of (unless you insist on doing stuff like casting Serenity). It is most useful as a 1-2 of usually, to help facilitate the land heavy draws post-board where you have a bunch of lands that don't produce mana (ie. multiple Bazaars + a Depths), and also to help facilitate casting Life from the Loam if you go that direction (I found 2 to be the optimal number in the various versions I tested). Each additional Riftstone Portal beyond the first isn't dead, because it can just be played normally to tap for mana, but it usually came down to opportunity cost in deck construction. By playing more Portals you have to necessarily play fewer Petrified Fields, Urborgs, Cavern of Souls (if you have the LabMan plan), etc.
9  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Boseiju. Community project. on: October 15, 2015, 09:53:21 am
I last played Boseiju earlier this year as a 1-of in Rector Omniscience, because there were a lot of good spells to cast with it (1 Tinker, 1 Flash, 3-4 Show and Tell, 1-4 Gifts Ungiven, 1 Yawgmoth's Will, 1 Merchant Scroll, 1 Demonic Tutor, delve spells, etc.). It was pretty good in that deck, and a second was in my sideboard. Boseiju was also played as a 1 or 2-of in the Vintage Super League in the OmniOath deck, because it can make Show and Tell uncounterable (which was a 4 of in that deck), not to mention spells like Dig Through Time (which was also a 4 of in that deck).

The only tension in basing a deck around Boseiju that you might encounter is the fact that Boseiju is Legendary, comes into play tapped, and doesn't produce colored mana (the latter is the reason I only played it as a 1-of main in Omnisience). This leads you to playing fewer Boseijus, which is turn creates less incentive to design a deck entirely based around Boseiju. I think the first order of business is figuring out what game-breaking spells you are hoping to resolve (justifying Boseiju's inclusion in a deck) and then building outwards around that, taking into consideration the colorless mana issue. Now that Thirst for Knowledge is unrestricted again, it may be worth playing those partly because it's a good card, partly because you can cast it uncounterably with Boseiju, and partly because you can use it to pitch superfluous copies of Boseiju that you'll inevitably draw if you play more than 2 main deck. Dack Fayden may also be a consideration for those reason (minus the uncounterable angle).

Living Wish does seem decent if you are in to green, but then that pushes you more to the Lands.dec plan, and less towards a stream of otherwise broken cards that make Vintage rest on a knife's edge.
10  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Black Magic Gaming Vintage Event!!! October 10th TO Report on: October 14, 2015, 06:15:06 pm
I guess it boils down to this:

If you're playing Thirst and Welders, would you rather have:

Force of Will
Ancestral Recall
Dack Fayden
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Time Walk
Demonic Tutor
Yawgmoth's Will
Time Vault
Mana Drain

Or:

Mishra's Workshop
Smokestack
Crucible of Worlds
Wasteland
Strip Mine
Sphere of Resistance/Thorn of Amethyst
Tangle Wire
Sundering Titan/big game-ending bots

Honestly, I'd rather have the blue spells.
Well I have the 4 German Foil Thirst for Knowledges set aside for you for when you want to add them to your Workshop deck. I hear there are a lot of fans of 7/10 Split and The Gilded Claw. Smile
11  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Boseiju. Community project. on: October 14, 2015, 06:09:21 pm
Is this post a joke, or no? I can't tell if you're serious or not. You want to play a deck based around Boseiju, so you're...going to jam it full of underpowered lands? Wouldn't logic dictate that you jam your deck full of cards that Boseiju casts uncounterably, like the most broken Instants and Sorceries with at least 1 colorless mana in the casting cost? Apologies if I missed the joke, but I just don't get it.
12  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Steel City Vault 2.1 on: October 07, 2015, 12:30:34 am
How does this list change with the unrestriction of Thirst for Knowledge?
I think you're going to see a significant merging of Grixis decks that incorporate Thirst, Key-Vault, Notion Thief, and Dack Fayden. Thoughtcast, Tezzeret the Seeker, Repeal, Ancient Grudge, and Goblin Welder optional. There are tons of options, and tons of overlap, which is why it's difficult to predict exactly what one player or team is playtesting, but rest assured, tons of people are working on decks of this basic framework, and you can expect to see these strategies well represented in Top 8's over the next few months.
13  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Hangarback Walker in Vintage MUD on: October 01, 2015, 04:40:13 pm
Can someone who has had success with Hangarback Walker in MUD tell me why it's good enough to play over all the other options that were being played? And also, why is it not being played in Legacy MUD lists (yes, I know Workshop makes the Vintage MUD strategy far superior, but still - most of the other creatures used are similar across both lists, so why not Walker if he is successful in Vintage)?
Hangarback provides another cheap but flexible and powerful threat in Vintage, and fares very well against Ingot Chewers and especially the mirror. This is why you'll notice a number of lists pair Hangarback with Arcbound Ravager in particular, as these tactics are very good in the mirror (being more aggressive, rather than wasting space on more lock componentry), as well as being very good against both Dack Fayden and Ingot Chewer (Arcbound Ravager enable lots of tricks in particular).

The reason it hasn't caught on in Legacy is because Legacy lacks a lot of those same threats and lines of play you commonly see in Vintage. Rarely is anyone trying to steal your threats with Dack Fayden in Legacy (outside of some of the Ancient Tomb-based Tezzeret decks). Rarely will you run into the artifact mirror in Legacy. You're more likely to play against multi-color Delver decks or Miracles in Legacy, which is why it's much better to just jam Forgemaster + Wurmcoil + multiple Sundering Titans in nearly every Ancient Tomb-based Legacy artifact deck. The cards you'll square off against and the lines of play you're likely to see are just much different, which necessitates a choice of different threats.
14  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [BFZ] Painful Truths on: September 21, 2015, 04:57:52 pm
Do you guys realize that Skeletal Scrying still exists, and is still legal?
15  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Podcast] So Many Insane Plays Podcast Episode 47: Champs Review on: September 12, 2015, 04:00:05 pm
The only problem that I can see with that line is Cabal Therapy - Mark was able to resolve a Therapy that could only win by naming Vampiric Tutor or Tendrils of Agony. Under your line, I think Mark wins by naming Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Memory Jar, or Tendrils of Agony. At the very least, hitting Sol Ring / Mana Vault would put Reid into the "Time Walk inside a Jar" situation that Steve and Kevin mentioned.
I'm well aware that Therapy could disrupt this, or any other line, but you have to play to your best outs. If he has blind Therapy for Tendrils, of double Therapy for example, you just lose immediately anyway, so I think giving yourself the best deterministic play possible is the correct way to proceed. If he's only able to blind Therapy once I think it's more likely to mirror a previous play and blind Therapy something like Dark Ritual, or barring that, something from either Black Lotus/Yawgmoth's Will/Chain of Vapor triumvirate.
16  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Podcast] So Many Insane Plays Podcast Episode 47: Champs Review on: September 12, 2015, 12:06:54 am
Regarding the scenarios section, discussing Hornung vs. Duke G3 (match available here on YouTube), you guys both missed the obvious easy kill for Reid, even in light of Mark's Leyline of the Void in play. Well, obvious to me at least upon seeing the board/hand. After resolving Timetwister, Reid draws:
Sol Ring
Mana Vault
Badlands
Tendrils of Agony
Wheel of Fortune
Memory Jar
Vampiric Tutor

His board is:
Underground Sea (tapped)
Mox Sapphire (tapped)
Lotus Petal (untapped)
Chrome Mox (no imprint)

He has 1 black mana floating. Rather than screwing around with Yawgmoth's Bargain or Mind's Desire, Reid should have just used the remaining black mana floating to cast Vampiric Tutor for Hurkyl's Recall. To our other readers/listeners, can you find the deterministic kill?
.
.
.
.
.
Use the floating black mana to cast Vampiric Tutor for Hurkyl's Recall. Untap, and draw Hurkyl's Recall. Play Badlands, and tap it to cast Sol Ring (Storm 1), and tap Sol Ring to cast Mana Vault (Storm 2), floating 1 colorless mana. Tap Mana Vault to float 4 colorless mana total, then tap Mox Sapphire (U4) to cast Hurkyl's Recall (Storm 3), floating 3 colorless mana. Play Lotus Petal (Storm 4), Sol Ring (Storm 5, 2 colorless mana floating), Mana Vault (Storm 6, 1 colorless mana floating), Mox Sapphire (Storm 7), and Chrome Mox (Storm 8, imprint Wheel of Fortune if you wish). Tap Sol Ring and Mana Vault for 5 colorless to cast Memory Jar (Storm 9, 1 colorless floating still). Tap Mox Sapphire (U), Underground Sea (B), sacrifice Lotus Petal (B), and tap Chrome Mox (R) for RUBB+1 colorless and cast Tendrils of Agony (Storm 10, still had a mana floating). Game Blouses.

You mentioned Hurkyl's in regards to pumping up the storm count for this massive Desire + Time Walk junk, but Hurkyl's was the answer for generating a large enough storm count to simply ignore the Leyline of the Void in play. It looks like Reid missed that line as well.
17  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Grixis Blossomstill at EW on: September 03, 2015, 11:04:59 am
Chris, congrats on the performance. I was happy to see you win the budget top prize with this, as I love the cards Standstill and Bitterblossom, and your decklist stuck out to me while writing up the Champs report.

Some additional cards to consider:
Thoughtseize - Not as dead against Workshops as the Flusterstorm/Misstep/Spell Pierce/Pyroblast group, and extremely potent for the mana cost in every format. It also ever-so-slightly reduces need for targeted removal against aggro-control, in that you can pre-emptively jack their Mentor/Confidant/etc.
Terminate - Instant speed targeted removal that gets around Chalice @ 1 from Workshops.
Dreadbore - Don't laugh, but this card is actually decent, as it gets around Chalice @ 1, and can be brought in against opposing planeswalker control decks. As a 1 or 2-of it's been pretty good for me out of various sideboards as a catch-all answer that you probably won't love, but will rarely hate. 
Yixlid Jailer - Another anti-Dredge option to further help you mix up the cards they need to answer post-board; often best as a 1 or 2-of for this vary reason (also something you can tutor for if need be).

Why did you hate Demonic Tutor specifically? That's basically the best black card that's legal in Vintage (apologies to Yawgmoth's Will), so I'm wondering what about it didn't work for your deck in testing.

Also, what decks or situations did you lose against, or have trouble with at Champs? That might help us better tailor the deck moving forward.
18  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Vintage Champs 2015 – Decklists, Metagame Report, Video, Report Roundup on: September 01, 2015, 01:45:01 am
Jaco fantastic job.  Top shelf!!!
Thank you very much. I'm glad some people are enjoying it.

Further updating this, we've just posted our EC Old School 93-94 tournament report, with decklists and tons of photos:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/oldschoolew2015/

More updates to come as we have time this week.
19  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: on: August 28, 2015, 11:04:19 pm
Anyone have info on the prelim?
We've just added a new post on EC with Saturday Prelim Top 8 Playoff and Decklists:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/vintage-champs-2015-saturday-prelim-decklists-and-top-8-playoff/

Enjoy!
20  Vintage Community Discussion / Community Introductions / Re: Tournament Organizer Status on: August 28, 2015, 12:32:55 pm
Please add me as a tournament organizer. I will be balling out of control organizing more tournaments (Old School and Vintage) in the future. Thank you in advance.

Full Members should be able to post as a TO, but I have added TO to your account. -Godder
21  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: on: August 28, 2015, 11:53:42 am
One minor nit-pick and I mean, very minor, is that BUG Control seems to include both Combo/Control decks (like I was playing) and BUG Fish decks as well.  In reality this is probably pretty irrelevant, but it might confuse some people who wonder where all the BUG Fish went to.

Mind you, only I know this because I played against Forrest Ashmore, who played BUG Fish (with Digs and I believe possibly no Confidants), and I was on BUG Combo/Control (no DRS, with Tinker and Vault/Key) and we both are listed as BUG Control (which I guess we almost are).
Combining the BUG lists was intentional. There are so many variations based on card inclusion of the player's choice that I felt it best to group them, and let people check out the decklists individually (once more are up). That, and there already being dozens of other sub-archetypes already listed, drove the choice to group some of the decks as such.


I wrote a script to scrape the NYSE decks. Once the full decklists are posted, I am happy to apply the script to these decks and share the spreadsheet of decklists.
Rich, if you wouldn't mind emailing me with spreadsheet (or link to Google doc) once that is done, I can add it to the report as well. Everything we have is just in generic text, so would be nice to have more options for people.

If you folks see anything else that can be added please let me know via reply here, PM, or email to support@eternalcentral.com.

EDIT: We now have recreated all of the info from the Vintage Champs Prelim on Saturday, and will be doing a separate post later tonight on EC with Top 8 decklists and Top 8 playoff bracket.
22  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] Tolarian Academy Combo on: August 28, 2015, 11:41:52 am
Loved this deck Hrisihi. It was easily the coolest deck I played against at NYSE 3.
23  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Vintage Champs 2015 – Decklists, Metagame Report, Video, Report Roundup on: August 28, 2015, 04:29:58 am
Very large post on EC now live, and constantly being updated:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/vintagechamps2015coverage/

Full metagame breakdown (including what everybody played, by final standings and name), as well as some pie charts to show Top 8/Top 32/Top 64 penetration of large archetypes, a video roundup, and more.

Please let us know what you'd like to see added, and if you have any ideas for more graphs you'd like to see. We'll begin fleshing out more decklists and adding them to that page as time allows over the next week or two (after some other reports are edited, and the Old School Tournament coverage goes up). As always, if you notice any errors please contact us so we can get them fixed. Thanks!

EDIT: We've just added a new post on EC with Saturday Prelim Top 8 Playoff and Decklists:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/vintage-champs-2015-saturday-prelim-decklists-and-top-8-playoff/

EDIT2: We've just added the EC Old School 93-94 tournament report with decklists and photos:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/oldschoolew2015/


24  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Eternal weekend video coverage? on: August 25, 2015, 09:56:03 am
Here is the archived broadcast (starts with Legacy Champs Top 8, then moves into Vintage Champs coverage the rest of the day):
http://www.twitch.tv/cardtitan/v/12371480
25  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Anyone have historic decklists for 93/94 Worlds? on: August 12, 2015, 10:07:35 am
From the pictures you linked, here is what I see in pics:
Cyrille Defoucand
1 Regrowth
1 Channel
1 Disintegrate
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Kird Ape
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Bayou
1 City of Brass
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Diamond Valley or City of Brass

Dominic Symens (lost to Zak Dolan in semifinals)
Animate Dead or Sacrifice on bottom of deck while shuffling
1 Mox Jet
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Tropical Island
26  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: TO Report: Team Serious Invitational III aka Mishra's Sweatshop on: July 30, 2015, 10:57:28 am
100% Top 8 conversion for Workshop decks is impressive.
Not that impressive, when you compare against the field. There were numerous decks sporting the alleged 'Best Draw Engine in Vintage,' which leaves like 18-19 mana sources for your deck, which then leaves you naturally vulnerable to good Workshop pilots. These are great against other blue decks, and not that great against decks that cast Chalice of the Void for 1, play Wasteland, and then prevent you from playing half of your deck between Chalice and a bunch of Sphere effects. There were also 2 Charbelcher decks, which have a very tough time beating Workshops on the draw. Workshops were a good call for that metagame, and I'm disappointed I didn't sleeve them up myself for that particular field.
27  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: MTGO Play Points & changes to Dailies on: July 27, 2015, 06:30:54 pm
I would like to think that the honor of winning the VSL is worth more than a foil set of power.
As Randy, LSV, and others originally stated in or before VSL Season 1, they wanted some actual stakes to play for, besides just bragging rights. Many of the players have to balance preparation for GP/PT formats with their prep for VSL, so I think the P9 gave them more incentive to win, and not getting booted for being last place also gave people towards the bottom of the standings continued incentive each week. I thought it seemed like a very good setup initially. We'll see how it unfolds in the future as a spectator event, especially with a lot of non-VSL Eternal format MTGO players having already jumped the boat (myself included).
28  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: MTGO Play Points & changes to Dailies on: July 27, 2015, 03:54:33 pm
Blow up the economy, butcher Vintage Dailies and now stop supporting VSL?  The hits just keep on coming.

Season 1 wasn't supported by WotC, I don't see what support is needed.  But I don't see why they wouldn't support it (unless they are 'making' their own standard and modern).
It was indeed supported (in a very miniscule way), in that Randy convinced WotC to provide a set of Foil Power 9 on MTGO to the winner each season. Randy and Shotgun Lotus have basically done everything else themselves the rest of the time.
29  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: LCV 2015 - July- Barcelona- 30 players - Results and top16 decklists on: July 21, 2015, 08:53:40 pm
Awesome write up as always Guillem. Thanks!
30  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: MTGO Play Points & changes to Dailies on: July 21, 2015, 09:53:30 am
Just got a few quotes the past 24 hours, and sold off my collection today to Cardhoarder, who were a few hundred dollars higher than MTGOTraders in this instance, and awesome to work with. Now $7800 richer.
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