So I've been working on this deck pretty much constantly since my last post and it's come along quite a way. If anyone's interested I can update my deck list in the first post.

However, I'm currently looking for a way to take advantage of Doomsday in this beast! The idea obviously is to resolve Doomsday and win within the next turn, but without access to blue it becomes quite difficult. The only pile I can think of so far is:

Moonlight Bargain,
Triskelion,
Mikaeus the Unhallowed,
Animate Dead,
Dance of the Dead.

However, there have to be more viable piles than that! So I ask you, the great minds of TMD, what other piles are available in mono black?

I'm not sure if Crucible of Worlds would make it redundant, but it definitely seems a good inclusion. I'll see if I can find a slot for it plus Buried Ruin.

I've actually just cut Triskelion, as the combo with Mikaeus was like playing the game on easy mode. I could put together a sideboard of cards like those for the sake of tournaments though, when I would want instant win combos.

Any thoughts on Mindless Automaton? It seems a powerful draw engine.

I'm also looking for some recursion for my artifacts at the moment, so any suggestions on that would be welcomed.

Thanks, zimagic!

Entomb/Buried Alive/Corpse Connoisseur - I've really been considering trying Entomb out and I think it's time I give it a try, so thanks for giving me the nudge to do so!

Null Profusion - I've got to admit, when I added this to the deck it was kind of for a joke and I expected it to be awful. However, it's actually been incredible. I run a lot of Phyrexian Arena effects, so the skip your draw phase part isn't too much of a problem, and it works really well with Ensnaring Bridge for a lock, or Library of Leng/Reliquary Tower for a draw engine.

Lightning Greaves - This deck doesn't actually attack much, and Xiahou Dun rarely stays in play for more than one turn, so I'm not sure how much use they would be. If I find myself with an empty slot in the deck though I'll give them a try.

Rancid Earth - This was actually in the deck until recently! Originally I had geared the deck much more towards 1v1 matches, so I had a few more land destruction cards, but I've since started playing more multiplayer games, meaning that the land destruction element became quite weak a lot of the time.

As for my meta, it's mostly creature based aggro with very few tokens (in fact, I don't think there are any dedicated token decks being played at the moment), plus the occasional Stax deck, which is why I opted for the pillowfort route.

Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks for the kind words. I've had to build mine to be quite fast and tutor based due to the nature of my playgroup, there are some very fast and overwhelming decks for me to deal with, but in a slower meta I'd like to play it a bit slower.

I REALLY want to find room for Chainer in this list! I haven't got a spare copy of him at the moment, but when I do he'll be going in, so thanks for suggesting that. How do you think Grim Discovery compares to a straight up reanimation spell like Animate Dead? I've thought of running one or the other for a while but I'm rather undecided at the moment.

Sadistic Sacrament is another card I really like the look of. My list's getting quite tight but I'll see if I can find space for one.

As for Terror vs Go for the Throat - GtfT is definitely better, and if I ever run this in a tournament I'll likely swap the two. The reason I'm running Terror instead is just because I've got a rather lovely looking Alpha one. Good catch though!

Thanks for the feedback.

This deck started off as an all out combo deck, looking to combo out quite early in the game with disruption to back it up and protect your combo pieces. Whilst it worked incredibly well when it did combo out, I found it far too unreliable and found myself at the mercy of my draws too much.

I've since taken the deck more a combo/control route, with lots of pillow fort elements, lots of removal, and most importantly - TONS of tutors.

Commander (1):
1x Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed

Board Control (19):
1x Maze of Ith
1x Sinkhole
1x Drain Life
1x Consume Spirit
1x Terror
1x Ashes to Ashes
1x Oubliette
1x Contagion
1x Avatar of Woe
1x Faceless Butcher
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Triskelion
1x Reiver Demon
1x Forcefield
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Rain of Daggers
1x Curse of the Cabal

Card Draw (11):
1x Night's Whisper
1x Sign in Blood
1x Promise of Power
1x Moonlight Bargain
1x Skullclamp
1x Bottled Cloister
1x Graveborn Muse
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Necropotence
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Null Profusion

Tutors (9):
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dimir Machinations
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Demonic Collusion
1x Expedition Map
1x Journeyer's Kite
1x Dimir House Guard
1x Fleshwrither
1x Rune-Scarred Demon

Discard (4):
1x Duress
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Distress

Recursion (7):
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Reanimate
1x Footsteps of the Goryo
1x Dread Return
1x Corpse Dance
1x Nezumi Graverobber
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed

Acceleration (5):
1x Dark Ritual
1x Cabal Ritual
1x Wayfaerer's Bauble
1x Extraplanar Lens
1x Bog Witch

Miscellaneous (6):
1x Temporal Extortion
1x Ivory Tower
1x Exsanguinate
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Library of Leng
1x Guardian Beast

Mana Base (39):
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Mind Stone
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Phyrexian Totem
1x Strip Mine
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Reliquary Tower
1x High Market
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Desert
1x Crystal Vein
1x Vesuva
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Ebon Stronghold
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
21x Swamp

A few of the best plays and combos in the deck:

• Corpse Dance -> Xiahou Dun - This is an incredibly efficient recursion engine, giving us access to Regrowth with buyback, not bad!
• Curse of the Cabal - One of the most effective cards in the deck, this can absolutely annihilate an opponent's board position. This is one of the most common recursion targets in the deck.
• Temporal Extortion - Recur this for multiple extra turns or a lot of direct damage to your opponent.
• Null Profusion + Library of Leng/Reliquary Tower - Play no hand limit cards after Null Profusion to give you a very potent draw engine.
• Ensnaring Bridge + Bottled Cloister - You draw an extra card during your upkeep and no one else can attack. This is one of the most useful combos in the deck.
• Mikaeus the Unhallowed + Triskelion - Infinite damage. I don't particularly enjoy using this combo but it's good to have as a back up win condition if you're in too bad a position to win in any other way.
• Guardian Beast - This deck really relies on its artifacts, so this guy helps you keep them in play! If you can recur him he creates somewhat of a lock with Nevinyrral's Disk.
• Exsanguinate/Drain Life/Consume Spirit - These are the deck's main conditions. You can generate a lot of mana with Extraplanar Lens, Urborg, Tombof Yawgmoth, and Cabal Coffers, so these are easy to use effectively. You can also recur them for use in small bursts rather than one big spell.
• Necropotence + Ivory Tower + Library of Leng/Reliquary Tower - Allows you to draw a huge amount of cards every turn.

Cards I'm looking to add when I can get a hold of them:

Vampiric Tutor
Sensei's Divining Top
Scroll Rack
Deserted Temple
Liliana of the Dark Realms

Any thoughts or feedback on this deck would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback, Methuselahn.

I see your point on Entomb but I'm very reluctant to remove it - getting one turn one or two nearly always results in a win by the end of turn two, which is incredibly powerful. Other than that are there any cards that stand out as bad to you?

I'm definitely interested in trying Show and Tell in here once I can make some room for it.

Thanks again!

First of all - apologies for the thread necro here, but I've updated the deck quite a lot.

I've removed the Snapcaster Mages, Gifts Ungiven, Frantic Search, Thoughtseize, and one of the Tendrils of Agony, replacing them with:

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3x Duress
1x Flusterstorm
1x Ponder
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Entomb
1x Repeal

This has given the deck a much more consistent control suite and a much more accessible tutor suite, enabling earlier wins. The addition of Emrakul has also given the deck an alternate win condition, which is much more viable against Stax and gets around Pithing Needle in games 2 and 3.

I've also replaced the Hurkyl's Recalls in the sideboard with 2x Rebuild, as Chalice of the Void@2 is a huge problem for this deck.

Any comments or criticisms on the new build would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

I really like the new Jace, he's nowhere near as good as JTMS and I highly doubt he'll see any Vintage play, but a cool card nonetheless - although the one thing I do like about him more than JTMS is that over two turns he digs deeper into your library then JTMS does, which could be relevant when trying to find a specific card.

It's a shame his +1 ability is so irrelevant, even if it was just something like '+1: Scry 2' he would have more chance at seeing Vintage play.

So, as we all know Ancient Tomb is an incredibly powerful card and a Vintage staple; however, I've noticed that it doesn't see much (if any) play outside of Workshop decks. So - why exactly is this?

A quick analysis of the pros and cons of the card:

Pros:
- Adds to your mana pool, which can be a huge tempo boost on turn one or two.
- Makes it easier to play around Stax pieces.
- Fits into just about any deck that doesn't need early heavy color requirements (i.e. turn one  or  ).

Cons:
- The damage from it can be relevant if you're using Dark Confidant or a lot of fetch lands.
- Doesn't add colored mana to your mana pool.
- Can 'color lock' you if your deck includes a lot of off color mana sources.
- Wasteland-able.

For me, the fact that it's a maindeck answer to Workshop decks that is relevant in every matchup is a huge point in its favor; add in that it can allow you to play pretty much any Vintage card on turn two and it becomes an even more powerful addition to a deck's mana base.

I understand that in a deck which needs a lot of early colored mana for something like Mana Drain, Kataki or Hymn to Tourach could make it difficult to include in some decks, but I feel that due to the fact that a huge amount of Vintage staples only need one colored mana at most that's not a problem for most decks.

So, with those points in mind - why isn't it seen outside of Workshop decks very often, and could it become a part of other archetypes' mana bases?

Thanks for reading!

Bob's out of budget at the moment. Thanks for the suggestion though.

As with Bob, JTMS is out of budget too, but he's definitely on the to-add-when-I-can-afford-to list.

Noxious Revival is incredible - it's essentially Vampiric Tutor for cards in your graveyard. The reasons I chose it over Regrowth (which was actually originally in the deck) are 1) it's instant speed, meaning your opponent doesn't get as much time to prepare for whatever you're recurring and 2) it's cheaper to play and far easier on my mana base. The reason I chose it over Snapcaster Mage are 1) it can get back permanents like Strip Mine, a destroyed/countered Time Vault etc, and 2) it's far less mana intensive.

My only issue with it is that it can be quite a tempo loss, although this is rarely a problem.

On the subject of removing 1 Forbidden Alchemy, are there any other cards you'd replace it with? I'm currently looking at Yawgmoth's Will or a singleton Vendilion Clique.

Thanks for the replies!

So, most of my 'proper' Vintage playing is done online or with proxies. This deck, however, is my one real Vintage deck which I've been working on slowly for well over a year now and will probably be working on for many years to come.

The idea of the deck is to control the board via a toolbox of answer cards which can easily be tutored or drawn, and then win via Time Vault, Blightsteel Colossus or Talrand, Sky Summoner. So far I've found it quite easy to switch game plan if one is disrupted, and in particular Talrand and Tezz have both had that 'Oops, I win' factor.

I decided to post it here rather than the competitive forums because it wouldn't have a chance against any competitive Vintage deck.

Here's the current list:

Win Conditions (4):
2x Talrand, the Sky Summoner
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Time Vault

Board Control (4):
1x Trygon Predator
1x Balance
1x Fire//Ice
1x Repeal

Counters (7):
3x Force of Will
2x Mental Misstep
2x Spell Pierce

Tutors (6):
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Tinker
1x Trinket Mage

Card Draw (8):
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
1x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Forbidden Alchemy
1x Deep Analysis
1x Gush

Utility (6):
1x Time Walk
1x Voltaic Key
1x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Noxious Revival

Mana Base (25):
1x Mox Pearl
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
1x Strip Mine
3x Mishra's Factory
1x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
7x Island
4x Seat of the Synod

I haven't included the sideboard because it's just a pile of meta dependent cards at the moment.

The next cards I'm looking to include are Ancestral Recall and the fourth Force of Will.

Aside from that, there are a few points I'd like some feedback on:

- The draw engine feels too slow and unreliable at the moment; when I get an Ancestral Recall it will be replacing one of the Forbidden Alchemys, which should help a bit, but besides that I'm not sure what else to do. Deep Analysis seems a little random and janky, but at worst it's usually Force of Will fodder.
- Yawgmoth's Will; worth adding in a deck that isn't running Black Lotus, full Moxen, Mana Drain or Dark Ritual?
- Vendilion Clique; could it have a place in this deck? I feel like the mana curve's quite high already, and adding that could just make it worse.
- Glen Elendra Archmage; again, could it have a place in this deck? I really like the idea of it but as with Vendilion Clique the mana cost seems too high.
- Flusterstorm; I'm considering adding it as a singleton to help against combo decks and as another counter to protect my own cards. If I do add this I might actually just replace the Forbidden Alchemys with Gush to make it easier to build up a storm count. Thoughts?

I'm not looking to make this uber competitive right now as I don't have the money to (fortunately, my meta allows IE/CE cards in place of ABU, so power cards aren't as out of budget as they would be otherwise ), but I do want to get it working as reliably and as efficiently as I can until I can afford to add more power cards.

Any thoughts or feedback would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!

The reason I've been looking at it over Moat is mostly Trygon Predator, but with Talrand recently being printed it also deals with the tokens he creates (if he ever gets played ). I'm thinking of trying it in a Keeper build I've been working on for a while.

I'm running a small Trinket Mage toolbox, so Meekstone's a very interesting idea and one I might consider trying.

Reverence
 
Enchantment
Creatures with power 2 or less can't attack you.

I've run this in various casual decks over the years and have quite enjoyed it. With Vintage shifting towards creatures I'm wondering if it could prove to be useful, even if only as a sideboard slot.

Pros:
- Stops most creatures played in Vintage (Dark Confidant, Goblin Welder, Snapcaster Mage etc).
- Stops a lone Mishra's Factory.

Cons:
- Doesn't stop Tinker bots or Oath creatures.
- Costs 4 mana, putting it in competition with cards like JTMS.
- Useless against decks with no creatures or very few small creatures.

So, with those points in mind, could this card see some Vintage play, even if only a sideboard card in creature heavy metas?

I haven't got either in my deck, but good point regardless. I'll give him a try.

Any thoughts on running him in control decks? I'm tempted to try a copy in my Keeper deck as a way to deal with creatures, but I'm wondering if he may be too slow in a deck like that.

Thanks for the replies! 

The Snapcaster Mages have been really good so far, the ability to recur a draw or tutor spell can outright win games, whilst recurring an early disruption spell can really give you a strong start in the early game. That said, I could see removing one perhaps, going to two copies.

I've tried Thirst for Knowledge, and in most decks I prefer it to Frantic Search, but the ability to untap lands can help you to combo out earlier than Thirst for Knowledge would. I'd quite like to give it another try though.

I agree with you about Necropotence and the second copy of Tendrils of Agony, I'd like to include Necropotence but I think it would nerf the discard spells too much. Any thoughts on adding Yawgmoth's Bargain instead?

The current changes I'm considering:

-1 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Tendrils of Agony
+1 Thirst for Knowledge
+1 Yawgmoth's Bargain/Hurkyl's Recall

Thanks again! 

Thanks for the reply! 

Good call on the Show and Tells, I'll add some to the sideboard.

As for Blightsteel Colossus and Tinker - I've considered removing Frantic Search and adding Necropotence and another Entomb, in that case might Time Vault and Voltaic Key be a better addition?

I think you're right about the additional Tendrils of Agony too, I'll remove one. 

I haven't had much of a chance to test this deck yet, but in the limited testing I have done it seems to have quite a lot of potential.  

Mana Base:
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
4x Underground Sea
3x Island
2x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand

Creatures:
2x Griselbrand
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Disruption:
4x Force of Will
3x Mental Misstep
3x Duress
1x Flusterstorm

Card Draw:
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder

Tutors:
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
4x Entomb
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Demonic Consultation

Mana Acceleration:
4x Dark Ritual

Reanimation:
4x Goryo's Vengeance

Storm:
1x Tendrils of Agony

Board Control:
1x Repeal

Other Awesomeness:
1x Time Walk
1x Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard:
3x Echoing Truth
2x Rebuild
3x Steel Sabotage
4x Pithing Needle
3x Tormod's Crypt

The idea of the deck is to get Griselbrand into the graveyard via Entomb, reanimate him with Goryo's Vengeance and proceed to combo out.

The inclusion of Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Duress and Flusterstorm allows you to disrupt your opponent early and protect your combo, and if need be allows you to play the control role for the first few turns.

So far it seems that although the deck can (and often does) combo out on turn two with counter/discard protection, it does have some consistency issues, which I would like to try to sort out.

Any thoughts or feedback would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!

Because you don't always have enough money to buy a playset of Thoughtseize. Plus it makes a good alternative to Duress in decks that run more discard than just Thoughtseize.

Inquisition of Kozilek - Takes out creatures, unlike Duress, and can take out most Vintage cards other than Force of Will and later game stuff like Jace and Tezzeret.

Ah that makes sense! So, in another hypothetical situation, I have Shapeshifter in play and Erayo on top of my graveyard, and I play 4 Moxen, does it become Erayo's Essence or does it just become Erayo but count as flipped?

Thanks for the reply, by the way!

Ah ok! Thanks for the clarification.

First, here are the two cards in question.

Volrath's Shapeshifter
 
Creature - Shapeshifter
As long as the top card of your graveyard is a creature card, Volrath's Shapeshifter has the full text of that card and has the text " : Discard a card." (Volrath's Shapeshifter has that card's name, mana cost, color, types, abilities, power, and toughness.)
 : Discard a card.
0/1

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
 
Legendary Creature - Moonfolk Monk
Flying
Whenever the fourth spell of a turn is cast, flip Erayo, Soratami Ascendant.
1/1
///
Erayo's Essence
Legendary Enchantment
Whenever an opponent casts a spell for the first time in a turn, counter that spell.

So, say I have a Volrath's Shapeshifter in play and the top card of my graveyard is Erayo, Soratami Ascendant. My opponent plays (for example) Brainstorm, I Mental Misstep, he Force of Wills, and I Spell Pierce, then what happens? I'm assuming that Volrath's Shapeshifter 'flips' into Erayo's Essence, the spells resolve and then I'm unsure of what happens. Does Volrath's Shapeshifter lose the "As long as the top card of your graveyard is a creature card" ability when it flips and then stay as Erayo's Essence, or does it just revert back it's normal 0/1 self?

Any clarification on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I like the idea and I think with a bit of tweaking it could be really successful. If cards like Wasteland and Jace, which are commonly used and have similar prices to Force of Will, were added to the list I think it would be a more useable system and would allow for a wider variety of decks to be built. In my opinion, a list like this should aim to provide players with the expensive staples of a deck and then rely on the player to fill in the gaps with actual cards - i.e. provide a Workshop player with Black Lotus, Moxen, Mishra's Workshop, Wasteland etc and then let them purchase the lock pieces like Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem. That would allow players to build competitive decks on a more reasonable budget whilst keeping it a collectible card game as opposed to a basic land with scribble on it game.

Just my opinion, though!

Aether Vial is brilliant with Standstill, though, but if BaronSengir is planning to really pursue the mana denial plan then yes, Null Rod is most likely a far better idea. Although Chalice of the Void could be worth trying instead of Null Rod if BaronSengir wants to run Aether Vial and mana denial together.

Also, Daze is probably sub par compared to the other disruption available at the moment; I'd go with 4 Force of Will, 3-4 Mental Misstep, 0-3 Spell Pierce, and 0-3 Flusterstorm - meta dependent, of course.

Mindbreak Trap does have that use, yes, and it takes care of Tendrils of Agony nicely too.

The fetch lands, as well as allowing you to fix your mana in multicolored decks, allow you to thin your deck so that there is less chance of drawing land when you need another card.

That obviously depends on your meta, but with Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm, and Mental Misstep all popular at the moment and able to disrupt you heavily, I'd recommend adding a strong cheap counter suite - Force of Will, Mental Misstep, whatever else you feel is right for your deck, and personally I'd probably add in an Erayo, Soratami Ascendant or two as well, but that's just my opinion.

Also, I'd probably keep it mono blue if possible, to avoid Wasteland effects and allow you to go off as quickly as possible, but a splash of black would give you access to tutors and removal, so that could be worth thinking about too.

Good luck!

I'll give it a try. I am slightly skeptical, in all honesty, but I won't know whether it works or not until I try it out.

That seems like a really cool idea! Sounds like it would probably be very slow though - how early did you usually manage to get it running?

I've tweaked the list further, adding a Steel Hellkite, and it's becoming a very aggressive deck with a strong control suite and seems to be very reliable all round. The current list is:

Mana Base:
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sol Ring
4x Mishra's Workshop
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
2x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
7x Island

Creatures:
1x Steel Hellkite
4x Lodestone Golem
1x Blightsteel Colossus

Draw/Tutors:
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
1x Tinker

Counters:
4x Force of Will
3x Mental Misstep
3x Spell Pierce

Mana Disruption:
1x Trinisphere
4x Sphere of Resistance
2x Null Rod

Utility:
3x Crucible of Worlds

Broken Awesomeness:
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Time Walk

Board Control:
1x Hurkyl's Recall

Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Flusterstorm
1x Hurkyl's Recall
4x Steel Sabotage

Steel Hellkite is proving to be amazing, I've not lost a game where I've got it into play - I'm considering adding a second one as it really is so powerful, but the dis synergy between Hellkite and Null Rod is slightly problematic.

Despite Jace not being castable with mana from Mishra's Workshop I'm still really pleased with him in the deck - his Brainstorm and Unsummon abilities have saved me in several games, his Fateseal ability is phenomenal when the opponent is short of mana, and his ulitmate ability is just amazing in any situation. Plus, he pitches to Force of Will, which is handy.

Any opinions or feedback on the current list? This deck is definitely proving to be pretty solid in my testing, so I'm hoping to keep developing it into a more competitive list.

I quite like using Magister Sphinx and Gaea's Revenge in my All Hallow's Eve deck!