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1  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: leiden 22 januari 2006, Top 8 decklists plus metabreakdown on: January 26, 2006, 05:21:22 pm
Play of the Day: Forcing the Oath player to give me my 4th spirit token. He casts Oath leaving Orchard open, I cast Daze. He opts to pay 1, I cast my 2nd Daze by returning an Island to my hand. He FoW, I misdirect. that was game. The best thing was his cry of utter disbelief. I just told him Ophidian rocks  Very Happy

Stupidity counter: The Oath player trying to Echoing Truth my Morphling with 3 Islands open, while his friends are sitting next to him and watch.

The play of the day, and the stupidity counter both concerned my teammate and friend Lée Towers. I Just wanted to say that it's people like you with remarks like these that make the game "not fun" for people who are new to the format. The fact that his friends were sitting next to him during the match is of no importance, for they can't mingle. I find the post kind of offensive, and insulting. Please keep in mind that other people read these forums too.

Thanks in advance,

Floris

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just amused by his reaction to my Misdirection (and by amused I mean, not in a negative way). It was a very recognizable reaction from him that I myself made many times, especially at the T1 nationals last year when someone just kept on out-countering me. It was a reaction of recognition as I knew what he was thinking/feeling.

Morphling keeps getting underestimated most of the times. Players forget you can untap it for instance, or in his case, make it untargetable. The fact that he's a new player has something to do with it ofcourse, but reading the card first would be a good idea for someone who's a new player at tourneys. If my memory serves me correctly he didn't read it before he casted the Truth.
Again, I too have made bad plays at tourneys when my friends were watching and sometimes they remember me of that. He told me he'd be in for that as well. It was all just for laughs.

No matter, the bottomline comes down to this: I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I offer my apologies if I did. It wasn't meant the way you put it. He was a good guy and a nice opponent (the nicest all day) and we had a couple of laughs. I hope to meet him again sometime at a tourney.
btw, you and the other guy (I remember there were 3 of you in total) were allrighty as well Wink.
2  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: leiden 22 januari 2006, Top 8 decklists plus metabreakdown on: January 24, 2006, 05:24:55 pm
the unpowered threshold deck was played by a friend of mine, the deck is better known under the name 'Birdshit'. He played a mirrormatch in game 6 which he lost due to a crappy hand (his first all day) needing only a draw to make it to the T8.

I myself played the Monoblue deck. After the first 2 rounds (with really bad luck in the first game) went down 0-2 against Gifts and Vialfish, then I picked myself up vs Dragon, Monogreen LD, Oath and Stax finishing 4-2 and 1 point out of the T8 as well.

Play of the Day: Forcing the Oath player to give me my 4th spirit token. He casts Oath leaving Orchard open, I cast Daze. He opts to pay 1, I cast my 2nd Daze by returning an Island to my hand. He FoW, I misdirect. that was game. The best thing was his cry of utter disbelief. I just told him Ophidian rocks  Very Happy

Stupidity counter: The Oath player trying to Echoing Truth my Morphling with 3 Islands open, while his friends are sitting next to him and watch.

On the Tormod's Crypt subject:
I never, ever leave home without at least 3 copies in my SB. When I think of something new to play and I don't know what it'll be yet, 3 Tormod's Crypt are already noted at the SB spots.  Wink
3  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Old fashioned R/G Zoo on: January 09, 2006, 05:35:03 pm
I see your point. I will go and do some testing with and without Rancors, Root Maze and the likes.
Thanks 4 your help here, I appreciate it!
4  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: A viable WW? on: January 05, 2006, 04:26:38 pm
I like both Chalice and Null rod, but both in a deck seems excessive. They serve roughly the same purpose (hose moxen), but 4 of either should be enough. I like the rod better, because it doesn't do nothing on the draw, and you really don't want to set chalice for 1 or 2 anyway.

I agree with SOTP over Whipcorder, they beat for the same, SOTP is bigger in combat, and has really good utility against welders.

The only thing I'm worried about, if you're playing in a powered meta, is broken starts like turn 1 Necro or turn 1 mox orchard oath. Swords help a lot there, while Dust to Dust doesn't do jack against Akroma. An interesting card to play against oath/Colossus/random aggro might actually be Reciprocate. Goodness knows nobody holds back the Big Iron Man(tm) to block.
You want both CotV and Null Rod so that either on the draw or play you can hose early moxen.  I have not tried the samurai out yet.  I never really liked his effect.  He's great against welders and crucible locks but that's it.  Whipcorder can help against those broken starts that were mentioned.  He can tap oath creatures and DSC all day. 

As Fubar mentioned, graveyard hosing is one of today's top disruption forms. You yourself mention Welders and Crucibles, which should be a large portion of the field you will go up against. Furthermore, hushed rumours of people tinkering with Dredge-a-Tog decks, not to mention Dragon and Tendrils will have trouble with the Samurai.

I also believe that with CotV, Null Rod and Kataki you have enough artifact hate out there. Therefore there would be no need for Oxidize. Taking out those 2 Savannah's for 2 more Fetchlands would be better in my opinion
good luck!
5  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Old fashioned R/G Zoo on: January 05, 2006, 04:14:45 pm
Thank you supa and warble.

To start with warble, I see your point of Utility. I myself love running Tormod's Crypt main as it is effective against most decks played around here. Rack and Ruin is a great card too, although I fear Mana Drains will be looking for that. I'd play it SB at least.
My metagame is not as Stax-infested as it probably is in the US. There are enough Stax-decks running around, I've just been fortunate enough not to run into one so far.
I will browse around for Utility options as I will need a number of them. I had not given that much thought to it yet.

Therefore, I neigh a little more to supa's suggestions. I haven't even given thought about Root Maze which should make an excellent maindeck option. Personally I'd cut 1 Naturalize as you already have 4 Shaman's, Mazes.
Coincidentally, I talked about this deck with a friend of mine and we were discussing the inclusion of Lavamancer. How does it work for you in your list?
I mean, you do not have many cards that get into your graveyard quickly, besides ESG, Strip-effects and Bolts/Naturalize. Mazes stay in the game, Rancor's usually don't end up in the graveyard.
I understand the use/need for Strip effects. There are hardly decks out there that don't run 5 Waste/Strip. As I thought up this deck I aimed to have as much speed as possible without having to react to an opponent's deck. Wastes and Strip Mine would slow my deck's stampede and therefore diminish the chance of (coming close to) winning. Warble also mentiones this so I guess I wasn't too far off here. Nevertheless, Wasting his Bazaar/Workshop is always a good thing  Smile

We also discussed the match-up against Oath which should be one of the hardest ones. So we concluded that Naturalize should at least be Main 3x.

I know I went a little idealic with my first decklist, realizing it is not do-able. I will look into supa's list, add a little tweaks (as I have no Lavamancers at the moment, I need to edit a little) and try it out versus a number of decks. I will need to test a little with the Root Mazes and Lavamancers as I have not played with either so far.
Thanks for both your suggestions.
6  Eternal Formats / Creative / Old fashioned R/G Zoo on: January 02, 2006, 04:55:56 pm
Hey people, how are you?

First of all, I went through 5 pages of decklists in this section and found 3 (kinda) Zoo decks but none of them actually looked like the 'Old Zoo' build with River Boa's and the works. My build doesn't have the watery snake either, but that's one of the reasons I'm here, I hope you can help me out.

I love T1, as we all do. Unfortunately, I live in The Netherlands. There aren't many T1 tourneys around here. When there are any, I usually play my good ol' monoblue with Superman and the works which gets me pretty far mostly (alas, I went 3-3-2 at the T1 Dutch Nationals last October).
Anyway, I feel the key to T1 is speed. You need to outrun your opponent before he gets you. I've noticed this with decks like Tendrils, Stax etc which all have insane amounts of mana in their opening turns before they drop their bombs and it's usually tough to punch through that. (not that I haven't been successful, but nevermind that).
So I wanted to try something else and I came up with another favorite of mine, R/G Zoo. I stripped it down and build it up again in such a way that I never need more than a little time to get him worried.

The thing is, everything in the below deck list costs 1 mana. (yes I know, Chalice would kill me but work with me) With a little acceleration I would be able to put 3 threats on the board in turn 2. For the record, I posses full Power but I aim to create a non-powered deck for a change.
Let me hand the decklist first:

Beats: 18
4 Kird Ape
4 Jackal Pup
4 Jungle Lion
4 Wild Dogs
2 Ghazban Ogre / Skyshroud Ridgeback

Burn/Pump: 8
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Giant Growth

Utility: 6
1 Crop Rotation
1 Berserk (have only 1, would like to add another)
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Manabase: 18
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Heart of Yavimaya

54 cards total. At the moment I have a little more land in there (+1 Barbarian Ring, Gaea's Cradle, 2 Forests and 2 Mountains) but in the short playtesting I've done it seems I have enough land, so I am thinking of cutting down to 18 land and 4 ESG.

The Sideboard contains cards with different CC's due to the threat of Chalice.
4 Chalice
3 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
3 Naturalize
3 Tormod's Crypt
1?

Anyway, back to the deck. Not using Berserk, it can goldfish on turn 3 which is not an unlikely situation:
turn 1: Mountain, Ape or Pup, use ESG for Jungle Lion or Wild Dogs
turn 2, Forest, attack, Giant Growth, Bolt or Chain, = 10 damage
turn 3, same.

My first problem is the number of creatures. 18 seems enough (not counting ESG), but with playtesting it appeared that I sometimes do not have enough punch. Still though, I need to do more testing.

Secondly, I am not sure about Ghazban Ogre. The Ridgeback has +1 toughness, but still dies to a Bolt or Chain plus it dies after 2 turns anyway. I realize that the game should almost be over by then, give or take a Bolt and that his death fills up my graveyard for the Barbarian Ring.

Thirdly, the Utility spot. Although I said I aimed this to be a 1cc deck, my hands keep itching about adding cards like Regrowth, Wheel of Fortune and Burning/Living Wish. IMO, most cards don't really fit the profile for being in an aggressive deck, but still. Regrowth could bring back that final bolt, Wheel replenishes my hand with a load of threats and a Burning Wish could get me a Final Fortune or something that wins it for me.
What I am trying to say is that when a game goes into extra innings for me (meaning, past turn 6 or so) I run out of gas, and usually my opponents start kicking up. At that point I need to trust my choice of playing only 18 land and that the top card of my deck is something I can use to punch those last few points away. Burning Wish, Regrowth and Wheel of Fortune all have that ability. As said, I don't know if those cards would work well in an aggressive deck like this.

Then, Barbarian Ring. I'm pretty content on the number of basics and of course duals and fetches can't be forgotten here, but I keep thinking about the Ring. It's a great card and with Bolts, Chains, Giant Growths it should not be difficult obtaining a Shock out of it. I am just wondering whether or not I should play 2.
I am dropping Cradle as it does not work for me. I have no X spell anywhere that would be useful or competitive (at least, not that I can think of).
I also do not play Wastelands/Strip Mine as they hurt the tempo of my deck. This deck is build to be a pro-active deck instead of a reactive deck, as I believe Stephen Menendian once wrote in one of his articles.

The forgotten ones:
Rancor
Fireblast

Both cards are, needless to be said, great of course. I just don't know if I'd rather play a 3rd creature on turn 2 or drop a Rancor on a little guy's head and swing.
Fireblast is an excellent finisher as it takes most people by surprise. I am not sure of including them though, as I would like to await your comments first. I was thinking of adding 2 at least.


Sideboard help
As already said, an well-sideboarded Chalice could ruïn a lot. Therefore I need my own disruption. Naturalize is an easy choice, as are Artifact Mutation and Chalices of my own to stop powered decks from laying down their jewels.
Then there's Pithing Needle, Null Rod and even Seedtimes for instance.

For the sake of trying:
3 Naturalize
4 Chalice
1 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
2 Seedtime
3 Tormod's Crypt ( I never leave home without this )


Well, that's all I have for you guys. I hope you can help me with this, any and all is appreciated. I aim to play this at a tourney within 2 weeks, so I hope to give you guys credit after that  Wink

Thanks!
7  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: [Deck] Shahrazad .. yeah, really on: April 27, 2005, 04:56:51 pm
When playing blue, I have the access to Extract as well which would be a marvellous here, but I have no idea what to cut.
Any ideas?
8  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: [Deck] Shahrazad .. yeah, really on: April 11, 2005, 04:11:34 pm
Hey, pretty interesting that Shahrazad is definitely still in the race. Currently my friend and I also built a special-special Shahrazad Deck, which we refer to as 'sligh?.dec'.

The trick is this. The mainboard is like any other sligh deck: obligatory bolts, chains, the works. The minor adjustment only the keen player might notice is that creature removal is non-existent as such; we aim to destroy the player in game 1 at all costs, even if it means running risks by letting creatures sit on the board. We have to win game 1 in order to make the special appearance in game 2.

What will happen next is this:-

If we won game 1, we sideboard out about 15 various cards (rather insignificant ones; lesser burnspells, breaking playsets, nothing interesting), and get this: replacing them with: 4 Plateau; 3 Shahrazad; disenchants; Orim's Chants; Panoptic Mirrors. I admit it's pretty damn hard getting this on the table, but we tried to combo Shahrazad with the Mirror (which coughs up a Shahrazad spell on the stack *every upkeep*), which should lead to a devastating but legal loop. The point is to win with 1-0, when your opponent has sideboarded potential gamebreakers for pro-red stuff.

Though if the combo isn't seeing play, it shouldn't be much of a problem since playing Shahrazad is in itself a rather painstaking manoeuvre. You're breaking the opponent's concentration, his familiarity with the board and his hand, and you remind him he's still playing against a pretty damn fast sligh deck with a minor tweak. Losing the subgame means 50% lifeloss, which is fatal in the main game.

I admit that this seems flakey at best, but let's not forget it is still only a casual deck. The reaction of your opponent when you hardcast a shahrazad is priceless, all the same.  Cool

LOL, a fun trick indeed potm, so you heard of my post here or did you just stumble upon it? Maybe I should post it on MOTL as well eh? Wink

Actually I thought of this trick, but I guess that's not me. I actually want this deck to revolve around (but able to win without) Shahrazad.

I'm pretty contend with the Mono-White build so far, although the Black version also has some very powerful cards to offer and at the moment it's still my 1st choice.


There's just one last version I want to show you guys before we all get to choose which looks best, and it's the W/U version:

4 Shahrazad
4 Savannah Lions
2 Exalted Angel
1 Balance
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Cataclysm

4 Mana Drain (into Angel, Disk, Cataclysm)
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
2 Brainstorm

1 Nevinyrral's Disk
3 Tormod's Crypt

1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Tundra
1 Adarkar Wastes
6 Island
6 Plains

Countering nets you cards in the graveyard, 1-1. Keep your opponent on a leash using Disk, Balance, Cataclysm and StP. Overall, this seems self-explanatory. The subgame tactic's been explained already.
shoot!
9  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / [Deck] Shahrazad .. yeah, really on: April 05, 2005, 02:05:00 pm
hey, thanks 4 the help.

Otherworldly Journey is a nice combat trick indeed. Although, due to my lack of creatures I fear it will be more often than not a card just sitting in my hand where I would rather have a StP or something.

Also, Equipoise is a fun card, but I think it won't have that much impact on the game. I run more manasources than most decks and because I don't use fetches I won't run out of land as soon as they will. I think I'd rather have Armageddon instead, which brings me to your next idea..

Cataclysm. This card would definitely fit into my deck and will most certainly will be vigorously tested  Smile

I have given thought about Genju of the Fields, and I'm still not sure if I should play it but I'll test it.
thanks!
10  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / [Deck] Shahrazad .. yeah, really on: March 18, 2005, 07:17:52 pm
Quote from: rchandra
Another Disenchant or Divine Offering would be a good last card.  I think Engineered Explosives may be better than Powder Keg here, but it depends on what you're removing.  I don't like Disk since it comes into play tapped.

Card drawing... Pursuit of Knowledge and Necrologia come to mind, but they are really clunky.  Skeletal Scrying doesn't seem like it can work in the deck.


I love Desk, especially in bad situations it's just a reset button where Explosives will just remove the small stuff, and will never be bigger then a 2cc blowup (not counting moxen). I agree it could go before Keg though.

Scrying has really bad synergy with this deck, I've thought of it before. I'm neighing more to stuff like Abeyance as a useful cantrip card, but the deck is narrow as it is already and you really need a board clearer or 2.
Pursuit of Knowledge would work best being backed up by cards like Abeyance / Orim's Chant IMO, which are both nasty stuff to play. Maybe Pursuit could be played in a U/W variant so you can Drain into it and protect it with Chant, Abeyance and counters..


The other day I started to weigh off Planar Void. As you will suffer from it as bad as your opponent, there might be ways to take advantage of that but so far I haven't found them yet... This would screw up many opp's games that abuse the graveyard and as a first turn drop only stoppable by FoW.
11  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / [Seriously Casual] Hitchcock's "The Birds" on: March 16, 2005, 04:40:35 pm
Maybe I can be of some help here, I've played a Mono-white version for some time (pre-mirrodin) with pleasurable results:

I'm afraid I can't remember all of it  Sad
4 Suntail Hawk
4 Welkin Hawk
4 Soulcatcher
2 Lieutenant Kirtar

4 Battle Screech
3 StP
2 Wrath of God

1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Soulcatcher's Aerie

4 Skullclamp

the thing that made this deck tick was an early Aerie and Clamp. You can freely block any attacker and let your birds be killed, filling up your Aerie until at one point you've got some massive birds out.

The Welkin Hawk - Skullclamp combo is excellent, I definitely recommend running 4 Welkin Hawk along with 4 Skullclamps

If you are set on the U/B version I'd advice against Airborne Aid. Most of the time you will have, 3-4 birds out and you will leave yourself tapped out and with 4 cards in your hand you can't use. IMO, it's too costly for what it does, it being a sorcery too. A better plan would be Impulse or Brainstorm which are more versatile.
I must agree with Mouth for War on Opposition. Your combo takes up 2 cards that have a 3cc and 5cc. In my experience the bird deck can't wait that long and you will want to cast threats at that point in the game, unless you have complete board control.

Also, I think cards like Sage Owl would be better then Aven Envoy, in combination with Fetchlands it makes half a Brainstorm, let alone his ability to do damage and the fact that it dies thru skullclamp.

g'luck
12  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / [Deck] Shahrazad .. yeah, really on: March 16, 2005, 04:17:02 pm
Hey, I never expected the man himself replying to this thread, and even creating an account because of it, I'm honored  Very Happy

I must say that your R/W appeals more to me then the list you posted here. I can understand your motivation though, but I feel a 2nd colour will keep the opponent more off-balance, although the trick with Mask is a good one  Smile
Another reason why I won't try it out is because I own only 1 Illusionary Mask (which was a pain to get in the first place) but you've given up a lot of aggro taking out red. I like the combo with Dreadnought (first time I've seen it  Embarassed ) but with all the artifact hate and not to mention, Null Rod out there it seems hard to pull off.

Red's instants can surprise an opponent and finish him off or kill an unsuspecting creature. Savannah Lions and Isamaru will not get past Ophie, Tog, Juggernauts and the likes. Ofcourse there is always StP and the Soltari Priest, but still I believe red's burn will help you control the board more.
I'm still not satisfied about the Priest. The fact that he runs straight through your opp's defense is a gift from heaven in this deck, but his disability to block keeps hanging in the back of my head. Oh well, maybe I shouldn't wine so much  Rolling Eyes

I'm glad you are intrigued by my black version. You can tell it needs a lot of work with the questionable Vindicates and Verdicts. I was toying with the idea of adding Mind Twist to the mix. Ofcourse this would require the full set of Moxen (as you mentioned for the Exalted Angel) but this could make all the difference.
I'm also still neighing to add Blue to the mix as I'm very fond of the Power and carddrawing, something this deck screams for (not counting Tutors), but it seems risky to mess up the manabase as I stated in my first post. I want to try and optimize W/B first, I'm putting Blue and Mono-White on a hold, for now.
I'll give a rough idea of what I have in mind right now:

4 Shahrazad
4 Savannah Lions
2 Exalted Angel
4 Soltari Priest

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Balance
3 StP
1 Disenchant

4 Duress
1 Mind Twist
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nevinyrral's Disk/Powder Keg - this might do the trick as well

1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
3 Caves of Koilos
7 Plains
3 Swamp

This leaves 1 spot open for anything. Perhaps an Eternal Dragon?
Hopefully more people will come with ideas. I've even considered Carrion Rats at 1 point if only for it's optional tech.  Wink
13  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / [Deck] Shahrazad .. yeah, really on: March 14, 2005, 06:53:10 pm
Hey peeps, how are you all doing?

A small intro: I'm all over T1, enjoying the format immensely and have played URphid (some time ago) and R/G Zoo with decent results at local tourneys.
Lately I'm trying to 'pull fast ones' with decks no one expects and voilá, Shahrazad.

If it turns out allright here, I might actually take it to a tourney and surprise the attendants, you never know.  Smile

I kind of got set in the right direction due to this article by Rahul Chandra posted on Starcitygames almost a year ago:
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=7047

Right, onto the list. Rahul had used an W/R build that did ok, but I quickly let my eye fall on Black as secondary color:

Annoyance:
4 Shahrazad
3 Tormod's Crypt (for those not familiair with the current rulings, cards removed in Shah's subgames are removed from the game permanently)

Creatures:
4 Savannah Lions
3 Soltari Priest
1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
2 Exalted Angel

Removal:
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Balance
4 Vindicate

Disrupt:
4 Duress
2 Gerrard's Verdict

Utility:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Disenchant

Manabase:
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
3 Caves of Koilos
7 Plains
3 Swamp

No SB yet.

Now, the obvious goal is to force an early subgame, Crypt him in the subgames (or use the Samurai's ability) to cripple his main game and so taking a firm grip on the main game.

I'll explain the maybe-less-then-obvious choices:

Soltari Priest: Unblockability is always good, though his cc of WW pains my eyes. I haven't been able to find a decent replacement yet but then again, I haven't had many problems with it so far. Besides, I need the aggro to maintain control of life totals, especially when I've lost a subgame.

Samurai o/t Pale Curtain: His ability techs extremely well with Shahrazad and his bushido ability enables him to block a lot of weenies.

Exalted Angel: Almost a sure spot here. After a subgame loss she can reïnstate my life total and send the game the other way.

Diabolic Edict: Another StP might be enough as well, but this gets around any untargetable creatures, i.e. Morphling.

Vindicate: I know, I know. I can probably do better then this but that's where you come in. I've pondered over this a long time and I'm kind of stuck. It's a decent removal card vs most non-blue decks, but that's why blue is T1's primary color. This would be one of the first cards to cut.

Gerrard's Verdict: I had Hymns in at first, but a double BB and WW in 1 deck that probably sees the manabase cripple after a 2nd subgame didn't appeal to me, so I switched it for the Verdict. At the time I opted for this it was just a fill-up to juice up the graveyard for a Crypt.


I found out during some playtesting that this deck almost doesn't even come out to play vs aggro decks. I opted to play 1, maybe even 2 Wrath of God main. I haven't tested that yet, but I hoped you people would come in there and give me a hand, as I've busted my brains over the past few weeks on this card.

I'm even not sure whether or not this is the strongest build, that perhaps W/R is better due to it's removal with Bolts and Incinerates or that maybe Blue could fit in with it's power and cards like Extract as SB targets for Wish.

To finish it up, Shahrazad decks are too vulnerable if Shahz doesn't appear early in the game (or is countered), so like Rahul's build, the deck needs to be able to win without it.

I appreciate any help you can give me here.
14  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [DECK] Italian Gay Red Fish - looking for advice on: October 18, 2004, 01:15:40 pm
Quote from: Batle
Quote
A good Fish build eats Madness

How are you able to beat 4/4 dorks with 1/1 dorks? last time i looked a 4/4 did beat a 1/1. UG Madness got bigger creatures, better counter, more stabile mana base and wonder making a mongrell able to buy wings. So saying that fish beats madness is kind of a weird statment.


I was taking into account using the sideboard. My personal Fish build (the old style) has a 13-1-0 record vs Madness (7 tournament plays, 7 friendly games), but that aside. I agree it is somewhat a tricky match-up, but a turn 2 standstill usually brings home the victory.
If you want detailed explanation, just msg me Smile

Quote

About the misdirection issue, I think we should add 2 annul instead of the 2 misD. just look at the card. it's gold. with all the stax decks in the meta it's brilliant. And against 4CC you can still counter some mana, to prevent a fast angel. It's also a first turn counter for the belcher. And that's not all. It also takes the oath of druids if that will get popular again.


true. although this is a metagame call, but most people will find Annul better than MisD atm.

Quote

And never play brainstorm and standstill in the same deck. That's like asking bush and kerry to work together.


Very Happy
15  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [DECK] Italian Gay Red Fish - looking for advice on: October 16, 2004, 08:43:32 am
Quote from: Negator
That's the only Fish Ur post that I found. So I'll ask my question here.

What do you think of this modification (from a standard build)?

-2 Faerie Conclave, -2 Fire/Ice or -2 Stifle or -1 Stifle, -1 Misdirection | +2 Tundra, +2 Swords to Plowshares.

I think that this alternation can improve a lot of matchups, like Dragon, 4cc, (maybe Oath), Madness, random Aggro, etc.

Thoughts?


I don't think you should add another color in just for creature removal. It weakens the already iffy manabase and there are other spells (counters, Fire/Ice, Lavamancer) that help with removing creatures.

A good Fish build eats Madness and random aggro decks. If your build doesn't work for you in your meta, try and finetune it instead of making it more instable. It needs its cheap counters and pitch spells to stay alive, and it's manlands to inflict hurt on your opponent.

If you seriously are thinking of building a different version with White in it, perhaps you should start a new thread and see what others think about it.

those are my 0.02  Smile
16  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [DECK] Italian Gay Red Fish - looking for advice on: October 14, 2004, 06:12:43 am
Quote from: Axor_the_Superman
In my opinion, fish is a deck born to played without power nines.
For thoses reasons, it plays null rod.

@Covetous: The mana base is weak, with wasteland the opponent can easy lock me..

@ True Lies Ownz: mono misdi is useless... Too causal!!  The best way to use misdi is to redirect an A recall or a Mindtwist, or I can use it in a counter-war... But in my opinion play only a misdi is really useless... At least 2......! Cool


Well, in my experience as a Fish player I can't see a Fish deck without P9 really. Recall and Time Walk are far too important for this deck. Lord knows how many times I've won a game by topdecking Time Walk which I wouldn't have drawn if it weren't for the Recall.

I agree on the fact that Misdirection is not as useful or necessary as it once was, but I disagree with the misdirections being useless. The first Fish build played 3 Misdirections main, but due to it's succes, the metagame shifting and the rise of new archetypes, the targets of Misdirection grew smaller.

Still, almost half the decks currently being played use blue and thus counters in any way, therefore it's my opinion that Misdirection still could have an impact on the current scene. I'm not even taking into consideration any non-blue decks with appealing to-be-misdirected spells.

Fish strenght is that it can lay down early, cheap creatures with quality abilities. However you won't have early mana available this way to counter any threats towards you or your creatures. That is way FoW and MisD got their place among the first builds. Today you find Daze and the Spiketail replaced the MisD as you play in your build and keeping it a succesfull deck.

Hope to've been of some use. g'luck.

Edit: spelling
17  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck Idea] U/B B2B on: October 13, 2004, 09:01:54 am
Quote from: GlockAndRoll
But up to now, i've rarely had any trouble with the manabase.
I choose to play 2/2 Phid/Infiltrator because I prefer that configuration, Infiltrator IS more powerful, but he requires B that I don't always have, and ophidian is a better sink after drain.


You seem to contradict yourselve here Smile

I see that all pro's and con's have been mentioned already, but in my humble opinion I would definitely try and make a decision on this matter, either to play Phid or Shadowmage.
If you don't always have the extra B for the Shadowmage, why risk it? Either tweak your manabase so that the Shadowmage hits the table as regular as Phid, or play 4 Phids.
I mean, I wouldn't want to run the risk making it to a final of a tournament and then being stuck on having no available black sources.

just my 0.02
18  Vintage Community Discussion / Community Introductions / Introduce Yourself on: October 12, 2004, 09:08:32 am
Name: Herman Deddens
Age: 25
Location: The Netherlands
Occupation: employed at an Asset Management Company
Decks: UR/phid, Monoblue, RG/Zoo, Fish (old version) Dutch Casino Deck

Hey peeps, you all ok? A little about my 'magic' history:

I started playing about my 14,15th or so with 5th Edition, but due to lack of other people playing the game I quit about almost 1,5 years later when Stronghold/Exodus got out, and so missed out on Saga Block to my regret later on. 3, 4 years ago I found a group of misfits like me that were just starting Magic with Apocalypse and I joined in.

I hardly play T2, as the tight format leaves little room for creativity which I desire when building decks. I made the definite switch when I got most of the must-have T1 cards as Drains and Power, and never looked back.

Due to the fact that I started with 5th Edition, I have a huge affinity for the artwork of AEther Storm and have been collecting the crapuncommon like rabbits breed. If anyone has any.. LMK  Wink
19  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Magic in Shandalar on: October 08, 2004, 06:55:46 am
Quote from: leviat
If someone can "hook me up" with a copy, I will happily host it on my webserver for a week or two.


If you mean you want/need the game itself, I have the 2 original CD-Roms at home with booklets and cases and all, so if interested feel free to contact me.
And if you didn't, then nvm this post..  Rolling Eyes
20  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / New Creation- The Coin Flip Deck on: September 18, 2004, 02:06:59 am
Quote from: mikeymike

Really, you are not a fan of Tides of War?  I'm giddy for that card in our big Multi-player games.  Let's say I have Tides of War and Krark's Thumb both in play: If I also have a single Wirefly, Frenetic Efreet, whatever back to block, would you attack me considering there is a 75% chance that you'll lose all of your creatures before combat damage even hits the stack?  I'm telling you, that thing will be a monster in MP.


Ah, yes, I can see it could be a monster in MP, but as for myself, I don't play MP games actually.. so I wasn't taking that fact into account  Smile

Quote
Anyway, that is a nice looking deck.  Interesting to see it in mono-Red.  What is your opinion of Planar Chaos?  Honestly I'm afraid to play it in MP b/c I'm afraid that my group will ban me, but man have I been tempted.  Seems like such an evil trick to pull off.


Thanks Wink I still needs work though. As you can see most cards CC is 3, which slows up your game considerably. But having a Thumb out makes up for all that  :lol:
Planar Chaos is a great card here, but ofcourse only when you have the Thumb. Otherwise it's an even shot. It can fuel your Encounter like nothing else and you have a 50% shot at countering their threats. Especially in MP, you would disrupt all of your opp's turn 3 before your next turn, even without a Thumb.
Just give it a try I say Wink

I'm still tempted to use blue, if only it were for a Tinker that would make me have a certain turn 3 Thumb at the max and Efreet is good, it can also fuel your Encounter if you still play one.
I'd use 4 Great Furnace if you decide to play blue and use Tinker, as this deck wouldn't even come close without Thumb.
21  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / New Creation- The Coin Flip Deck on: September 15, 2004, 08:22:02 am
This is a great deck, I love this one! The one bugger about this deck is that your opponents will hate to play against it, and once they've done so they usually don't want to play against it again as it's too annoying  Very Happy

I started this deck around Odyssey when Chance Encounter came out, and lots has changed since then.

Here's my list:

'Holland Casino' (named after the largest chain of Casino's here in The Netherlands..)

Flips:
4 Fiery Gambit
4 Planar Chaos
4 Goblin Bomb
2 Game of Chaos
2 Bottle of Suleiman
2 Wirefly Hive
1 Mijae Djinn

Others:
2 Chance Encounter
4 Krark's Thumb

Early Removal:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning

Flavor:
1 Wheel of Fortune

Juice:
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
3 Barbarian Ring
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
11 Mountain

People that count see that there's 2 open slots here.  Smile  There's quite a number of cards you can fit there, I used to fit 2 Mana Flare in there. Maybe if you squeeze up the Juice and add a Ruby there for good measure

Fiery Gambit: A fixed fit. Like mentioned before, if you can get the full Monty out of it, not just your opponent will be gasping, so will you.

Planar Chaos: This is a madman. It serves like your everyday counterspell. Your opponent will get only 1 flip where you (assuming you have the Thumb out) will have 2. It fuels your Encounter like crazy and it has gotten me to 10 on a few occasions (out of a zillion duels that is, but still). Still, maybe 4 of this is too much here and you could cut a copy.

Goblin Bomb: A fixed fit here too imo.

Game of Chaos: A tad too much maybe, and better things can be put here, but in a game where I was at 1 and my opp at 14 (2 bolts) it saved my hide. And, it fuels your Encounter well if you keep it up a while. Remember to quit when you're winning  :lol:

Bottle of Suleiman/Wirefly Hive: Creating flyers this easily is fun, though the 5 hurt can stomp you in the bullocks.

Mijae Djinn: He's just a pounder. If he's not attacking, it's a formidable blocker to keep you going that extra turn for your Bomb.

Chance Encounter: His 4 CC is nasty, but with all the extra coin flips you can take in 1 turn (Planar Chaos/Game of Chaos) it's certainly a member of the team. Don't play 4 though.

Krark's Thumb: duh.

Chain/Bolt: keeps you out of a tight spot early game and then hang in there for your Chaos or Bomb.

Wheel: Just flavor.

Hope you can use this somewhat, I very much enjoy this deck! Too bad the new Flip enchantment in CHK isn't that good.

The reason I don't play blue is, I feel, it get's in the way of your mana base, which will be mostly red. Squee's Revenge is a tricky one, on the other hand the Efreet is a heavy hitter and nearly unkillable.

Have fun  Very Happy
If you have any questions here, LMK


EDIT: slight error..  Confused
22  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Magic in Shandalar on: September 15, 2004, 07:29:47 am
Yay! my first post here  Cool

I loved this game, always trying to make a winning deck with the most bizarre cards.

My favorite build:

4 Ali Baba
4 Bird Maiden
4 Dragon Whelp
4 Ball Lightning
3 Shivan Dragon
1 Ali From Cairo

2 Mana Flare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Disintegrate
4 Fireball
1 Fork
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Black Vise

1 Strip Mine
4 Factories
1 Mox
1 Lotus
16 Mountain

Easy as that. I also had a B/W deck which worked excellent and revolved around the Astral card Necropolis of Azar, using the White and Black Knights and Wrath's, and besides that I played a Time Vault deck once with good succes but unfortunately I can't remember the decklist.. too long ago.

If anyone is interested though, I still have both CD-rom's with the original booklets and boxes and all lying at home  Very Happy
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