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1  Eternal Formats / Creative / U/W Aggro Contr on: December 30, 2004, 07:34:05 am
Quote from: koxl0003
Quote from: CaptainPlanet.dec
Someone just made me realise something. Oath targets. So...Beleiver hates it! Changing the main post because well, I just had a breakthrough.


Check the Oracle Text of Oath of Druids:
"At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player controls fewer creatures than any of his or her opponents, the player may reveal cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a creature card. The player puts that card into play and all other cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard."

It doesn't target anymore. Sorry to burst your bubble and all, but I thought it was rather important.


Never listen to StarOrc.
2  Eternal Formats / Creative / U/W Aggro Contr on: December 29, 2004, 10:56:41 pm
Someone just made me realise something. Oath targets. So...Beleiver hates it! Changing the main post because well, I just had a breakthrough.
3  Eternal Formats / Creative / U/W Aggro Contr on: December 29, 2004, 10:53:38 pm
Quote from: TylerEss
How's Tax/Rack working out for you? When I was playing a deck with a similar creature base, I was losing games before the Tax would come online. That's also the reason that Parfait stopped running Tax/Rack and turned into Enchantress. Also, lots and lots of testing back in Parfait days showed that 3Tax/4Rack was the Right Thing, because multiple Tax isn't much good, plus you already know they're going to be gunning directly for your scroll rack-without it you don't have a draw engine.

How often can you really cast Moat? Moat is some good, but most opponents don't let you get that much mana before they kill you.

How good is Balance when you've got so many creatures? It also shuts off your draw engine by making them sacrifice lands... just a thought.

Keep working on this. Meddling Mage is Teh Win.


The different between the old Parfait TaxRack and mine is this: In this meta, there is a high number on nonbasic hate through Crucible+Wasteland, Back to Basics, Blood Moon, and various others (okay, I lied, there's not much else), the ability to search for more lands is amazing. It's also good with Trinisphere to ensure you reach 3 mana. In this environment, Land Tax is just as much as a threat as Scroll Rack was then.

Moat is a 1 of just so I can pull it out in dire need. Game 1 I have no hate main deck for anything but combo, if you don't count the mandatory StPs. Aganist Aggro, which would have been a difficult matchup, I can just swing that bad boy up.  

Balance is a security measure. Balance plus Daze makes for an active Tax. However, I think I'm going to cut if for Gush. Opinions? Gush equals Active tax plus nets 4 cards to Rack away.
4  Eternal Formats / Creative / U/W Aggro Contr on: December 29, 2004, 08:30:31 am
Quote from: ericthefatz0r
Have you considered running Exalted Angel? I really don't know what you could take out, but it sounds like a good idea. Also, what advantages does the Land Tax/Scroll Rack Engine have over any other drawing engine? It sorta seems like only using it twice is not enough to warrant 4.

But, I must say this is a great GREAT looking deck, and hope you do very well with it.


I ran Angel originally over Tinker/Platz, but not losing the game seems much more important versus Stax and other Workshop decks that can produce mulitiple oversized threats.

Land Tax/Scroll Rack is a good engine versus Stax because it grabs me lands to sacrifice to Smokestacks. Also, over time it becomes "1: Draw 3+ cards." Against control decks I can activate my Tax almost every turn, grabbing me 3 lands. Even when I put them on the top with Rack, I can search for them again next turn, shuffling my deck to draw me new spells. It also thins the deck so my topdecks are more likely to be threats or removal. Land Tax by itself has been very important.

Quote from: Fominian
Whats with the SB DoJ? Don't get me wrong, the card is fine and all, its just to be really effective you have to cast it late, late game and you are lacking all the nice lil synergies with it...

FoW - you are running 13 other blue spells, and most of them are things you probably would not want to pitch (Tutors, Draw, heck even mages would protect you...) Have you really found that they were needed? It personally seems a tad risky. Have you looked into the Leak route?

The other thing that bothers me about this deck is the MD Moat - I rarely have ever been in a situation where I would want this. And I can think of a few cards that would probably serve you better - on the consistancy end atleast.

On that note have you looked at the following:

Brainstorm - with all your fun lil library manip, whats 1 more? Also able to cast it right away end of turn 1.

Orim's Chant/Abeyance - this could help greatly in the early game to net you a simple time walk (sometimes) or to protect your turn (most often).

Argivian Find (SB) - the mass majority of your tech, and win are artifacts - and you would want to protect those. Why not run some of this in the SB to use as a fetch?

Cunning Wish - finding answers now has always been a good idea.


DoJ is for control. It's an uncounterable threat and is a very dangerous spell for control to see cycled late game.

FoW seems to be working with the consistancy I want it to. I've ditched even Ancestral Recall to it; it's used for threats that I need to get rid of like Welder or Trinisphere.

There is absolutly no room for Brainstorm that I can find. Same goes with Cunning Wish. Plus, I need alot of sideboard spots for Stax.

Chant and Abeyance is more for control hate, which I already have alot of.
5  Eternal Formats / Creative / U/W Aggro Contr on: December 28, 2004, 04:28:27 pm
W/U Aggro Control
NavySeals.dec

Creatures///9
1 Platinum Angel
4 Meddling Mage
4 True Believer

Controll///15
R Balance
1 Moat
2 Back to the Basics
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Engine///7
3 Scroll Rack
4 Land Tax

Other///5
R Ancestral Recall
R Enlightened Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Tinker
R Time Walk

Mana///24
R Chrome Mox
R Mox Diamond
R Library of Alexandria
R Sol Ring
R Black Lotus
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Pearl
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
6 Plains
4 Island

Sideboard///15
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Decree of Justice
3 Guilded Drake
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Energy Flux

Heres changes, and explanations.

- 2 Impulse
+ 1 Mystical Tutor
+ 1 Time Walk

Mystical is Tinker # 2 and fetches Recall, Walk, Swords, Balance, and even FoW against Combo. It can fetch more consistantly than Impulse, how ever I'm kind of mad it can't fetch lands, because I have done it a few times with Impulse.

Time Walk draws me a card. It untaps. It allows for consistant first/second turn 2/2s and with Decree of Justice can be a pain for control. Tempo swings are important.

- 4 Disenchant
+4 Energy Flux

What gives me problems is the prison aspect of Stax, not the aggro. Flux shuts down the prisons and can slow them down enough for a Tinkered Angel.
6  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Null Rod on a Critter? on: December 28, 2004, 04:02:23 pm
Call it Drullon. It sounds Junglish...kinda.

Or Run Doll.
7  Eternal Formats / Creative / U/W Aggro Contr on: December 27, 2004, 10:14:43 pm
Quote from: DeadHead
I like the deck. It seems like you have a good matchup vs. a lot of decks.

Things I dont really like:

4x Daze

Cant this be replaced with a better counter. Maybe you can try the sucky  Foil.
If your Land Tax/ Scroll Rack is doing its thing you can miss that Island.
I have never tested this card but I think its worth the try.

Also, why isnt there a Mystical Tutor in this deck? You can search your Tinker and Enlightened Tutor which can search B2B or other usefull enchantments.

Side note:

True Believer + Recall =/= Tech


Yes, True Believer doesn't work with Recall. Oh well.

I'll test Mystical, I do definitly need it. Maybe - 1 Impulse for it? Then the other Impulse for Time Walk?

I'm thinking of dropping the sideboarded Disenchants for Energy Flux. What do you guys think? It should make Stax much easier because they can't hold on to their lock.
8  Eternal Formats / Creative / U/W Aggro Contr on: December 26, 2004, 11:32:54 pm
W/U Aggro Control
NavySeals.dec

Creatures///9
1 Platinum Angel
4 Meddling Mage
4 True Believer

Controll///15
R Balance
1 Moat
2 Back to the Basics
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Engine///7
3 Scroll Rack
4 Land Tax

Other///5
R Ancestral Recall
R Enlightened Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Tinker
R Time Walk

Mana///24
R Chrome Mox
R Mox Diamond
R Library of Alexandria
R Sol Ring
R Black Lotus
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Pearl
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
6 Plains
4 Island

Sideboard///15
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Decree of Justice
3 Guilded Drake
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Energy Flux

Here's my updated list. Here's why I think you people at TMD should look at my deck:

Quick Summary for Lazy Kids:

Hates Out:
Combo
Oath
Slaver
Titan

Hated By:
Stax *

* - Only Game 1 is there great difficulty.

Why it is better than Fish:
Fish run's fragle creatures, and the mana denial it uses (Null Rod) is now subpar. It has no back up versus Workshop because 5/3s just destroy 1/1s, and Fish cannot race creatures like that. However, in NavySeals, Moat and Swords to Plowshares makes sure that you can race them, even if you have to pause for a while. A simple Moat game one can shut down the offence of a Workshop deck, and a Platinum Angel can just fly over. Balance also works when they start a Smokestack, because if I can leave myself with 2 mana, I can drop a Balance and usaully even the score. It also has 8 additional combo-hate cards maindeck for the TPS, Belcher, and DeathLong matchups. Against Control, there's a problem. I think the matchup before sideboarding is about equal, but if you sideboard in Decree it helps alot.

Why it is better than Parfait:
Parfait is a dead deck. It is very slow, and can hardly win under its own steam. Taxing out lands so it can win with Belcher? That's alot of time and mana. Wouldn't you rather have 8 2/2 creatures that help you stop combo, which is Parfait's hardest matchup, kill them with a Tinker for Angel back up? It wins faster. It also has Force of Will and Daze for countering without mana open. With Back to Basics, Moat, and Platinum Angel, you can provide your own "fortess" just like Parfait. Running Tinker with the Scroll Rack is good because you can put artifacts back into the library, and Daze with Tax is good because Daze can counter a spell and then you search for some lands, which thins the deck and gives you fuel for a Scroll Rack, which will draw you into more control. It's an engine within itself. Parfait just didn't use the engine as well. All but the control matchup are improved.

Why it is better than 4CC:
4CC has a weak manabase which is easily hated in the current environment. Seals runs off basic lands and an Engine that searches for more. With a hard to disrupt base, Seals can search for the control cards needed at the time easier. This makes the control matchup better, because it is less veneralbe to Strips. It uses a similar win, but also has an optional "aggro" win (Believer and Mage beat down anyone?) which it good if you are short on mana. It is equivalent to 4CC in the combo match up because it has more "you lose" cards even though it has less disruption. Against aggro I have Moat, Swords, and Platinum Angel, which all stall as good as 4CC does.

Matchups:

Stax/Welder Varients
Biggest problem so far, however the only ones giving major problems are the rogue(rogue?) ones with weird stuff like Time Vault + Lodestone Charger and newbie builds with Arcbound Crusher and Arcbound Ravager. The major things that hurt me are Chalice of the Void and Tangle Wire. With Smokestack, I can win the race with Land Tax because I can keep fetching lands. Meddling Mage for Goblin Welder has helped alot. I'm considering maindeck Samurai of the Pale Curtain instead of the True Believers in order to help this matchup because Crucible/Strip is also becoming a menace. It might only seem like that because I've faced it all night.

Sideboarding:

Standard Stax
+4 Disenchant
+1 Swords to Plowshares
+4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
- 4 True Believer
- 1 Platinum Angel
- 1 Tinker
- 2 Impulse
- 1 Chrome Mox

or

Aggro Varient
+4 Disenchant
+3 Guilded Drake
+1 Swords to Plowshares
- 4 True Beleiver
- 1 Platinum Angel
- 1 Tinker
- 2 Impulse

FoodChainGoblins
This matchup is easy. Meddling Mage for Ringleader if they are going for the Food Chain. Drop Moat. Swords and Balance kill creatures. Make sure to kill the key cards, such as Warcheif. It's not a deck to be afraid of.

Sideboarding:
+ 1 Darksteel Colosus
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 2 Disenchant
- 2 Back to Basics
- 2 True Believer

ControlTitan/Slaver
I learned how to play this before the deck was at this state. I didn't even know he was playing Titan the first game. It looked like weird control, and I dropped Meddling Mage for Mana Drain. That was smart. Then I dropped another for Force of Will. I ended up winning the game, but didn't see a Titan or a Welder. Next game I hardcast an Angel in desperation to end it, he Mana Drains into Pentevus and he plays with Pentavus and Titan till I die. Game three I sideboard smart, Meddling Mage for Welder, and then don't play anything with cc 3 or higher. I end up winning with 2/2 beats. Basically I learned this: Cut the resources to play Titan: Welder and Mana Drain. If you get rid of Welder and don't give them a Drain target, you win. Against Slaver it's the same, except Believer is an allstar.

Sideboarding:

Titan
- 4 True Believer
- 1 Platinum Angel
- 1 Tinker
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 3 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
+ 2 Guilded Drake

Slaver
- 1 Platinum Angel
- 1 Tinker
- 1 Moat
- 1 Balance
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 3 Guilded Drake

4CC
4CC is a harder matchup. Control versus Control is hard, because your running less hard counters, more creature removal, and a fragile win. The Decrees in the board are for this matchup. Basically, force your engine, then draw into a Decree and cycle it for as many 1/1s as possible. You can take control with Back to Basics. It's a hard, hard game one.

Sideboarding:

+ 2 Decree of Justice
+ 1 Darksteel Colossus
- 1 Moat
- 1 Balance
- Swords to Plowshares

Oath
Oath has big creatures. First you want to get Meddling Mage for Oath of Druids into play or accumulate a nice draw engine. You are going to want to Tinker next. No matter what, if they don't remove Angel, you can't die. Then you can beat them with 1/1s and 2/2s. You can even attempt to deck them.  Not an incredibly tough matchup.

Sideboarding:
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 3 Guilded Drake
+ 4 Samauri of the Pale Curtain
- 4 True Believer
- 1 Moat
- 2 Back to Basics
- 1 Balance

DeathLong/TPS/Belcher
Best matchups. You have 8 creatures that shut them down. Mage for Tendrils/Belcher and True Believer. Both are insane. Back them with Daze and Force of Will, and you've got the game. Not much of a problem, you might not even need to sideboard.

Sideboarding

- 1 Moat
- 3 Swords to Plowshares
+ 4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain/Disenchant

Fish
Fish is also a nice matchup. It runs fragile creatures, and Null Rod, which although hurts a little, does not compare to B2B.  B2B can shut down their manlands and duals, while Meddling Mage for Grim Lavamancer is awesome. Your creatures are bigger, and Wastes and Strips are met with Tax.

Sideboarding

+ 1 Darksteel Colossus
+ 1 Swords to Plowshares
+ 2 Decree of Justice
- Moat
- 3 True Believer

There's the deck. Comments are welcome.
9  Eternal Formats / Creative / I may be on to something! on: December 25, 2004, 07:52:07 pm
U/W Aggro Control
NavySeals.dec

Creatures///9
1 Darksteel Colossus
4 Meddling Mage
4 True Believer

Controll///14
R Balance
1 Moat
2 Back to the Basics
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

Engine///7
3 Scroll Rack
4 Land Tax

Other///5
R Ancestral Recall
R Enlightened Tutor
R Tinker
2 Impulse

Mana///24
4 Tundra
R Chrome Mox
R Mox Diamond
R Strip Mine
R Library of Alexandria
R Sol Ring
R Black Lotus
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Pearl
4 Wasteland
5 Plains
3 Island

Sideboard///15
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Guilded Drake
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Disenchant
4 Fairie Conclave

It's easy to play. Counter main threats, Mage others, Scroll/Rack engine, with DSC as a possible win. It has good matches verses it all:

Combo:
4 Meddling Mage
4 True Believer
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

Don't let them go off. Mage and Believer both do that. And they have back up.

Welder Varients:
1 Moat
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Guilded Drake
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Disenchant

Destory and stall. The bring out the big boy, DSC. I'm thinking of cutting DSC for Platinum Angel because it flys over Moat. Good idea? It should help this matchup greatly.

Oath:
4 Swords to Plowshares
R Balance
R Tinker/1 Darksteel Colossus
3 Guilded Drake
4 Disenchant

Get rid of the threat, or get rid of the active Oath.

Here's my thoughts:
Maindeck:
Platinum Angel instead of Darksteel Colossus? It gets around Moat. When I drop Moat, it's in desperation and I can no longer attack for the win.
Sideboard:
Instead of Conclaves, should I run 3 Decree of Justice and another random hate card?
10  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / 3CB Tournament #47 Results and Discussion on: December 24, 2004, 05:43:54 pm
I think fadeblue got jipped points.
r_x_ - (No Name) Treetop Village, Eladmiri's Vineyard, Maze of Ith

Village
Vent
Vineyard
Sleeper
Swing, Maze
Field

Vent
Village
Sleeper
Vineyard, Maze
Field

Fade wins. In both games.
11  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / 3CB Tournament #47 Results and Discussion on: December 24, 2004, 01:54:39 pm
Damn. Experimental decks suck.
12  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck] Kobolds on: December 23, 2004, 10:58:03 pm
Quote from: Whatever Works
There is a difference between synergy and a Combo. Saying that Yawg's Will with Kobolds is a combo is like saying that Dark Ritual ---> Necropotence is a combo... It isnt... Its synergy...


True...but aren't all combo decks just synergy pie now?
13  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck] Kobolds on: December 23, 2004, 10:47:56 pm
Quote from: ELD
Honestly, RTFC.  Skullclamp and Yawgmoth's Will is no kind of combo.



That's combolishous. Because after that, you're playing more Kobolds, drawing more, and definitly getting enough Storm to Tendrils a win. Heres a good example.

Bayou, Dark Ritual, remove an ESG, Glimpose of Nature, Kobold, draw 1, Kobold, draw 1, Kobold, draw 1, Mox Ruby, Skullclamp, clamp once, draw 2, clamp twice, draw 2, Dark Ritual, clamp last one, draw 2, Kobold, draw 1, Thopter, draw 1, Black Lotus, Mox Emerald, Yawgmoth's Will, Lotus, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Glimpse of Nature, Kobold, draw 2, Kobold, draw 2, Kobold, draw another, clamp 1, draw 2, clamp another, draw 2, clamp last, draw 2, Tendrils of Agony for 42 life.
14  Eternal Formats / Creative / Mephisto.dec on: December 22, 2004, 03:32:09 pm
Lock///7
3 Uba Mask
4 Chains of Mephistopheles

Engine///12
R Ancestral Recall
R Demonic Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Fact or Fiction
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Impulse

Control///14
R Mind Twist
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
4 Duress
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

Brokeness///2
R Yawgmoth's Will
R Time Walk

Win///3
R Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Platinum Angel

Mana///22
R Black Lotus
R Mana Vault
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Jet
R Sol Ring
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Swamp

Sideboard Ideas:
Back to Basics
Blue Elemental Blast
Diabolic Edict
15  Eternal Formats / Creative / Mephisto.dec on: December 22, 2004, 02:57:23 pm
Quote from: Malhavoc
Talking about card advantage, why don't you use fact or fiction? It is now a draw spell (strictly speaking) so it is not affected by uba and chains. It gives awesome card advantage, and it is a good way to use the mana taken from the drains. I would put it in taking one vault away. The vault is a nice card, but is card disadvantage; 4 are just too much IMHO.


Actually, that's a great idea. Are their anyother quasi-FoF/Impulse like cards?
16  Eternal Formats / Creative / Mephisto.dec on: December 22, 2004, 11:22:32 am
Quote from: giddygorgon
This looks like where Eastman was going with MEPHkeeper a long time ago, This is going to roll to workshop every single game, you play chains, they play juggz, you play uba mask, they win.  Aggro in general is just going to pound you, which in this metagame is very very bad.  Also, it looks like the oath matchup would suck. Not good.


The thing is, the top decks in this metagame are NOT aggro. The aggro decks you will find are usally Welder decks or FCG. I think I can make a sideboard that deals with the two.


Quote from: Robert the Swordsman
One problem I see is that Platinum Angel is really, really easy to kill, and once you have an Uba Mask out, you most likely won't be able to protect it with countermagic.

What happens if they get a turn-one Welder and you don't have a Force? As far as I can tell, that wouldn't be too good for you.

In any case, good luck.


I'm not sure is PA is they way to win. Originally I wanted DSC/PA, but I want to be able to Drain into a win. Any ideas? Memnarch might help again the $T4X matchup.

Quote from: VGB
Decks that can't generate card advantage or at least dig for virtual advantage don't exist in T1 anymore.

All you have is AR and 4 x Impulse.

I can see this deck stealing a game against control and combo now and again, but it's biggest threat is itself. That is the problem with playing Chains of Mephistopheles in T1, and always will be.

I do like the massive Tutor for Tinker plan, though.


My virtual card advantage is

Ancestral Recall
4 Impulse
4 Lim-Duls Vault

Vault for Tinker is awesome. Putting Tinker on top is easy usaully, and then you can grab an Angel and ignore the life loss.

I think 9 cards + 3 tutors are good enough "virtual card advantage".
17  Eternal Formats / Creative / Mephisto.dec on: December 21, 2004, 11:54:40 pm
Mephisto

Lock///7
3 Uba Mask
4 Chains of Mephistopheles

Engine///12
R Ancestral Recall
R Demonic Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
4 Impulse
4 Lim-Dul's Vault

Control///14
R Mind Twist
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
4 Duress
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

Brokeness///2
R Yawgmoth's Will
R Time Walk

Win///3
R Tinker
2 Platinum Angel

Mana///22
R Black Lotus
R Mana Vault
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Jet
R Sol Ring
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Swamp

It's OSE with an anti-control lock, and an anticombo/aggro win? Weird hybrid. Control the combo deck the best you can with Duress/Drain/Force, then drop Chain or Mask against control, and then against aggro power out the big Angel.

Matchups:

4CC
Make sure to get a Mask or Chain in play. Once one gets in play, you can put up a great fight. Mask is your best bet, because it makes countermagic = no. Even though you will no long be able to counter, who cares? You can now drop and Angel and win.

$T4X
What a hard matchup. When I build a sideboard, it will definitly be made for that deck. Best bet is to drain somthing big and drop Angel.

FCG
Duress out FC, Drain the first big Goblin, drop Angel.

TransmuteArtifact.dec
Counter the TA, they take 4 burn from Su-Chi. Basically, just dont let the TA or Tinker resolve.

Oath
Stop them from drawing at all costs. If they get the active Oath, find the Disk. Basically...don't let them get an active Oath.

Fish
Cut off their draw engines and then bring in the big flier.

And yes, control and Chain/Mask would seem bad synergy...but if they can only play so many spells, holding 1 counter in hand can be deadly.[/b]
18  Eternal Formats / Creative / Working on a deck based on Trinisphere brokeness... on: December 19, 2004, 10:03:11 pm
Artifacts///10
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere

Engine///7
4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack

Tricks///14
R Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
R Balance
R Wheel of Fourtune
2 Humility
3 Impending Disaster
4 Goblin Welder

Kill///7
3 Masticore
4 Juggernaught

Mana///22
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Platau
R Sol Ring
R Black Lotus
R Mana Vault
R Mana Crypt
R Mox Ruby
R Mox Pearl
R Mox Jet
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Emerald
3 Plains
2 Mountain

In this deck the plan is to abuse a first turn Trinisphere...as much as possile.

Any of the 10 artifacts are great locks. Here's some combo you can pull off:

Trinisphere+Impending Disaster: You have 3 lands? Oh, too bad. We have none.

Trinisphere+Crucible of Worlds+Strip: NO SPELLS FOR YOU!

This deck is completely experimental. Any suggestions?
19  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / 3CB Tournament #46 Results and Discussion (Finally) on: December 17, 2004, 06:39:13 pm
8. ReAnimator - Witness the Eternally Twisted - Black Lotus, Eternal Witness, Desert Twister

If I do this correctly...wouldn't we draw when he goes first?

He goes Loti, Witness, Loti, sac Lotus (GGG) Witness, Loti, he has 4 Lotus and takes 3.

I play Loti, Proctors, return his Loti, drop my Voids. If he attacks, we both lose our creatures, and visa versa.
20  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / 3CB Tournament #46 Results and Discussion (Finally) on: December 17, 2004, 06:31:30 am
Quote from: wonkey_donkey
Quote from: CaptainPlanet.dec
I beat # 12 both games...he can only produde 11 mana once, next turn I play Lotus, and Proctor both DSC.

I win 1 and tie 1 with #10, he plays Loti, Squires, plays Form. My turn I Proctor into a Void and return his Form.

You do indeed beat the DSC deck, but you don't beat the form deck going second. His squires can still beat down and kill you.

Tom


Thought Squires were 1/2. Oops.

I know I shoulda played Lotus, Proctor, Force of Will. That was unbeatable.
21  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / 3CB Tournament #46 Results and Discussion (Finally) on: December 16, 2004, 07:07:59 pm
I beat # 12 both games...he can only produde 11 mana once, next turn I play Lotus, and Proctor both DSC.

I win 1 and tie 1 with #10, he plays Loti, Squires, plays Form. My turn I Proctor into a Void and return his Form.
22  Eternal Formats / Creative / The New Evolution of Fish? on: December 11, 2004, 08:43:52 am
Quote from: Nova442
Stasis+deck requiring 1/1's to attack with = nonbo.

Stasis is so, SO bad in this deck.  I am assuming you just forgot that creatures don't untap under stasis :-/

Back to basics is bad because you had to remove half your threats to use it.  Without manlands you only have 12! creatures and they are weak at that.

Suicide Black beats the living crap out of this  Wink


Usually I drop Stasis for only a few turns if I have the active lock, then blow it up when I have enough cards that I know I can draw enough. Most of the time I play it for just one turn just for the tempo swing.

Why is Fish bad in T1 right now? Because nonbasics are just not good anymore with Crucible and Strip effects running rampant. Enough decks are running enough duals that Back to Basics would hurt them more then a 2/1 flier.

Maybe I should drop Stasis for Tangle Wire, which can set up the B2B lock easier and let's me attack through it.
23  Eternal Formats / Creative / The New Evolution of Fish? on: December 10, 2004, 11:56:31 pm
I always loved Fish. But then I thought, hey, Stasis is a cool card. I could probably use it for insane tempo swings. And wallah, 8Mile.dec was born!


Creatures///12
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Cloud of Fairies
4 Spiketail Hatchling

Lock///7
3 Back to Basics
4 Stasis

Control///8
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

Broken///13
R Ancestral Recall
R Time Walk
3 Impulse
4 Curiosity
4 Brainstorm

Mana///21
R Mox Ruby
R Mox Diamond
2 Volcanic Island
4 Forsaken City
4 Polluted Delta
8 Island

Basically it plays like Fish:

Play a quick threat and swing tempo to your advantage with a well timed B2B or Stasis.

You can do stuff like this against 3Sphere:

Island, Mox Sapphire, Cloud Of Fairies, Curiosity.
Workshop, Trinisphere.
Island, attack, Back to Basics. Good game.

Stuff like this versus Oath:
Island
Forbidden Orchard, Mox, Oath which is Forced/Dazed.

Stuff broken liek this verus control:
Forsaken City, Mox Sapphire, Stasis.

Or even better, against 4CC:
Island
Random Dual, eot Brainstorm
Island
Random Dual, eot Impulse
Island, Back to Basics.


Basically, the gamebreaking Null Rod has been replaced by a game breaking Stasis/Back to Basics. City is used under either of the locks to activate Lavamancer or pay upkeep on stasis.

The deck has pretty good matchups all around.

It's called 8Mile because Back to Basics and Stasis are like Time Walk in most cases, and 8Walk doesn't sound nearly as good.
24  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Revisitting Tortise #1 on: December 05, 2004, 12:21:26 pm
Turn 1: Lotus, Channel, Regrowth on Lotus, Digm Shift, Gemstone Array, Mirari (12)
Turn 4: Lotus, Channel, Regrowth miraried on Digm Shift and Lotus, Lotus, Burning Wish miraried for Braidwood Cup and Death Wish. Cup, tap it, Digm Shift. (1)
Turn X: Lotus, Channel, Regrowth miraried for Digm Shift and Lotus, Lotus for BBB, Death Wish miraried for Death Wish and Elvish Cache.
Turn x+y: Lotus, Channel, Regrowth miraried for Digm Shift and Lotus, Lotus, sac Lotus for GGG, Cache miraried for Regrowth and Lotus, Lotus for BBB, Regrowth miraried for Cache and Lotus, Lotus add BBB, Death Wish miraried for Death Wish and Leviathon, Death Wish miraried for Death Wish and Scatterschot, Death Wish miraried for Salvaging Station and Death Wish, Death Wish miraried for Death Wish and Firebolt, play Foundry (Leviathon.

Over next turns play enough Leviathon so that you can untap Salvaging Station enough times to replay Lotus enough times to play Firebolt, Flash it back, and Death Wish for it so it will kill them. You need 9 mana to play and flash it back for 4 damage.
25  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Revisitting Tortise #1 on: December 05, 2004, 01:53:09 am
Channel
Paradigm Shift
Black Lotus
Regrowth
Gemstone Array
Burning Wish
Mirari

SB
Braidwood Cup
Death Wish
Strength of Ceders
Diamond Kaliedoscope
Elvish Cache
Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Wow, inherent brokeness is insane.

Turn 1: Lotus, Channel, Regrowth on Lotus, Digm Shift, Gemstone Array, Mirari (12)
Turn 4: Lotus, Channel, Regrowth miraried on Digm Shift and Lotus, Lotus, Burning Wish miraried for Braidwood Cup and Death Wish. Cup, tap it, Digm Shift. (1)
Turn X: Lotus, Channel, Regrowth miraried for Digm Shift and Lotus, Lotus for BBB, Death Wish miraried for Death Wish and Elvish Cache.
Turn x+y: Lotus, Channel, Regrowth miraried for Digm Shift and Lotus, Lotus, sac Lotus for GGG, Cache miraried for Regrowth and Lotus, Lotus for BBB, Regrowth miraried for Cache and Lotus, Lotus add BBB, Death Wish miraried for Death Wish and Strength of Sceders, Death Wish miraried for The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Diamond Kaleidoscope, charge z.

Do this cycle: Ceders, Digm, Regrowth Digm. Attack for 1. Next turn Ceders, Digm. 2 turns later repeat cycle. It takes 20 mana 3 turns and attack for 1 twice.

20 x 10 = 200 Mana and 30 turns to win.

If anyone wants to do the math they can, its 2 AM here and I'm tired. I'm guessing it's somewhere in the lots.
26  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Fair Ancestral Recall on: December 04, 2004, 06:56:36 pm
I think this is almost fair right here.

Ancestral Re-recall U
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play Ancestral Re-recall, discard your hand.
Draw 3 cards. You may not play anymore spells this turn.
27  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Revisitting Tortise #1 on: December 04, 2004, 11:41:06 am
Well I thought about this engine for mana:

Burning Wish
Mirari
Channel
Black Lotus
Mox Ruby
Diamond Kaleidoscope
Lion's Eye Diamond

Not only is it an engine, you can also grab your win with it. However, I can't seem to set it up right.

Lotus, sac for GGG, Channel, Lion's Eye Diamond, Ruby, Mirari, Kaleidoscope, Burning Wish with copy (Death Wish and Yawgmoth's Will), Sac LED in responce for BBB, Yawgmoth's Will, Lotus, LED, sac for BBB, Death Wish with copy (Death Wish, Braidwood Cup), Cup. I have ZERO life. Ugh.
28  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Revisitting Tortise #1 on: December 03, 2004, 11:25:57 pm
Energy Flux
Ancestral Mask
Diamond Kaliedoscope
Hickory Lot
Braidwood Cup
Channel
Soldevi Digger

Lot.
Digger.
Channel, dig Channel and Lot. (16)
Lot.
Channel, Braidwood Cup, Kaliedoscope, dig Channel, gain 1. (8)
Channel, Charge, gain 1, dig Channel and Lot. (2)
Lot. Gain 1. (3)
Gain 1 (4)
Gain 1 (5)
Channel, charge, gain 1, dig Channel. (1)
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1 (8)
Channel, charge, gain 1, dig Channel and Lot (1)
Lot. Gain 1. (2)
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1 (5)
Channel, charge gain 1, dig Channel. (1)



The cycle is this:
Channel, charge, gain 1, dig Channel. (1)
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1 (8)
Channel, charge, gain 1, dig Channel and Lot (1)
Lot. Gain 1. (2)
Gain 1
Gain 1
Gain 1 (5)


13 Turns = 2 tokens.

Since you need to be able to attack with the 2/3, you'll need 177,153 tokens to keep it alive.

177,154/2 x 13 = 1,151,501 turns

Not enough.
29  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Strip Mine? on: November 30, 2004, 04:16:56 pm
Quote from: Necrologia
That second version is better than a dual land. The opponent gaining a single life isn't even enough of a drawback for the color fixing. Tack on the destroy target enchantment bit and it's ridiculous.

Not that the first version is much better. 1 point of life for some color fixing is fine, but the enchantment ability still throws it way way overboard.


So should I keep it at 3 damage? I thought the card would be flavorful with the G and W combined with the name and ability.
30  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / 3CB TOurnament #45 Results and Discussion on: November 30, 2004, 04:15:10 pm
Quote from: combo_dude
Workshop says "Spend this mana only to play artifact spells." You aren't playing an artifact spell, so you can't use it.

I mean, AFAIK you can't use Workshop mana for a creature like Karn, so I doubt you can for this either. I remember Laurie Cheers played that deck (or similar) but with City of Traitors, which definitely works.

Thanks for the Daze answer though.


So what exactly is the point of the ruling about costs on text?
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