Now I explain:   

My idea is play 4x vial in MD and 2x kataki MD.

In SB 3x Null Rod and 1x Kataki.

When playing Vs Powered decks in 2nd game I SB in 3x Rod and 1x kataki.

In this way I can play vial. I play kataki paying upkeep of Vial.

If I draw null rod I can play it also with vial, because oppo have to decide if mantein his spoiler with lands or sacrifice them (they become useless with rod).

In few turns oppo will lose his moxes&co and we can sacrifice null rod without paying mana cost for kataki.

May it work?

With Kataki Vial and Rod CAN go in the same deck.

The reason is that kataki can remove null rod, that we can use in sb and in game 2-3 sb in when we need it.

Before Kataki the problem of playing Rod&Vial was how remove Rod if useless, but with this great critter we can remove rod simply without pay his upkeep.

Now we can play vial + rod (in sb) with kataki, and play a competitive deck against powered decks without lose the power of Vial.

My 2 €ent

Imho Kataki may be usefull used WITH null rod.

We have to pay cost for vial (we can pay it also with null rod for sometimes), cost for null rod, but opponent must pay cost for his artifact and he can't use moxes&co.

We pay for 2-3 turns mana for rod+vial, and when oppo doesn't keep any (or few) artifact we can sacrifice null rod and and start with hard bitting.

I play a version of UW weenie adapted for Italian Meta. In next days I will post it for a usefull discussion.

Axor

In my opinion this is a Vial Fish UW more strong in general matches

//Creatures: 16
4x Cloud of Faeries
4x Flying Man  - Better than spiketail for the sinergy with ninja
4x Meddling Mage
2x Voidmage Prodigy - you can't wish to see one of them if you play only 1 copy
3x Ninja of the Deep Hour  - they are a "legnazzo" (or unplayable card) if you draw them in first 7-8 cards  

//Counter: 7
4x Force of Will
3x Annul - they counter oath win condition, tps wins accelerators (black, bargain, necropotence) animates vs Dragon.dec, mana artifacts.. In mirror match vial, curiosity, standstill, crucible... Lot of cards.


//Draw Engine: 8
4x Standstill
1x Ancestral Recall
3x Brainstorm (you must play something to watch cards and shuffle useless cards in grimory.

//Utilities:4
1x Time Walk (you can win with this card)
3x Sword to Plowshares (Colossus, oath, mirror, atog... This card can be really useful. If you doesn't look for a meta with those decks, you can put in other useful cards (stifle? Rods? serenity? Crucibles?)

//Protection: 4
4x Aether Vial

//Mana: Artifact: 2 Lands: 21
1x Black Lotus (how can you play without it??  :shock:  )
1x Mox Sapphire
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Flooded Strand
4x Tundra
2x Island
1x Plains

Nb: Stifle is going to become useless, because:

- TPS makes a duress under play tendril (who'd be protected by fow)

- Dragon.dec has duress and counters (in Uxx version)

- Fetch... In many games Italian Players tap and sacrifice it when I can't do stifle, and I does not use this card from so much time.

Annul is better.

My 2 €uroCents

PS against oath this deck list has good match up for:

- 3 Stp
- 3 Annul
- 4 Meddling Mage
- 4 Vial
- 2 Void Mage prodigy

Karakas card: http://magiccards.info/lg/en/248/

Hi, this is a great card, but I don't know if it can be useful in the second game or at the third game.
The Oath Player sides in creatures as Morphling, that is not Legendary Creature.

So Karakas is a great tech, but only if playing in main deck and in a UW fish, in 1-2 copies. What other creatures we can bounce? Spirit and Akroma and......?

However, this is a beautifl idea and karakas is better than maze.

My two EuroCents  

After the arrive of Oath.dec in our meta I think there are two strategies:

a) run&beat: We try to kill the opponent as soon as possible, beating with creatures and factories (for the first game the best choise).  

b) Control the Game: we play a control game (in my opinion this isn't the right choise)  

After the first game we have to side; we have some cards may be useful (with my rating */10):

a) spawning pit 6.25/10  
b) claw of gix 4/10  
c) extract 7+/10  :lol:
d) waterfront bouncer 6/10  
e) gilded drake 5/10  
f) goblin bombardment 7/10  
g) annul 7-8/10      
h) maze of ith 5/10  

a) Spawning pit 6.25/10

this artifact may be a good choice, because we can sacrifice token spirit charging a counter on Pit. At the end of the oppo's turn we make creatures for a beatdown and at the end of our turn we sacrifice them and we watch non triggering oppo's oath.

b) Claw of Gix 4/10

this artifact requires an activation cost, paying a colorless mana and sacrifice a creature to gain one life. I think spawning pit is better than this.

c) Extract 7+/10

with this we can remove the finisher(s) from the game, and win the game with normal beatdown. We must play extract covered by FOW or daze+spiketail for the max utility.

d) Waterfront Bouncer 6/10

if oppo does not has morphling or Iridescent Angel this a great creature for side. This is really beautiful also with gorger.dec or tpc (tinker per colossus)

e) Gilded Drake 5/10

as the Wtf Bouncer, this is a strong card if oppo doesn't plays Morpho or Iridescent, and it is also great with tpc but not gorger.dec.

f) Goblin Bombardment 7/10

this enchantment works making a damage for each creature sacrified to a target.
This is better than S. Pit because we can play null rod at the same time we play this, instead with S. Pit we can't use the ability for our strategy.

g) Annul 7-8/10

Great card, powerful! We can counter oath @ first turn, and also Black Lotus, moxes, pernicious, E.E.... This is the card we would have on hand all first turns!
*Please, note that I have this card main deck (3x) and I have not stifle*

h) maze of ith 5/10

Good card... But maybe useful with untargettable creatures?

After this, I can make a top8 sideboarding cards:

1 Annul 7-8/10
2 Extract 7+/10
3 goblin bombardment 7/10
4 spawning pit 6.25/10
5 waterfront bouncer 6/10
6 maze of ith 5/10
7 gilded drake 5/10
8 claw of gix 4/10

What you think about? Have you got others ideas or opinion?

My two €uroCents  

Axor

After the arrive of Oath.dec in our meta I think there are some strategies:

a) run&beat: We try to kill the opponent as soon as possible, beating with creatures and factories (for the first game the best choise).

b) Control the Game: we play a control game (in my opinion this isn't the right choise)

After the first game we have to side; we have some cards may be useful:

a) spawning pit 6.25/10
b) claw of gix 4/10
c) extract 7+/10
d) waterfront bouncer 6/10
e) gilded drake 5/10
f) goblin bombardment 7/10
g) annul 7-8/10
h) maze of ith 5/10

a) Spawning pit 6.25/10

this artifact may be a good choice, because we can sacrifice token spirit charging a counter on Pit. At the end of the oppo's turn we make creatures for a beatdown and at the end of our turn we sacrifice them and we watch non triggering oppo's oath.

b) Claw of Gix 4/10

this artifact requires an activation cost, paying a colorless mana and sacrifice a creature to gain one life. I think spawning pit is better than this.

c) Extract 7+/10

with this we can remove the finisher(s) from the game, and win the game with normal beatdown. We must play extract covered by FOW or daze+spiketail for the max utility.

d) Waterfront Bouncer 6/10

if oppo does not has morphling or Iridescent Angel this a great creature for side. This is really beautiful also with gorger.dec or tpc (tinker per colossus)

e) Gilded Drake 5/10

as the Wtf Bouncer, this is a strong card if oppo doesn't plays Morpho or Iridescent, and it is also great with tpc but not gorger.dec.

f) Goblin Bombardment 7/10

this enchantment works making a damage for each creature sacrified to a target.
This is better than S. Pit because we can play null rod at the same time we play this, instead with S. Pit we can't use the ability for our strategy.

g) Annul 7-8/10

Great card, powerful! We can counter oath @ first turn, and also Black Lotus, moxes, pernicious, E.E.... This is the card we would have on hand all first turns!

h) maze of ith 5/10

Good card... But maybe useful with untargettable creatures?

After this, I can make a top8 sideboarding cards:

1 Annul 7-8/10
2 Extract 7+/10
3 goblin bombardment 7/10
4 spawning pit 6.25/10
5 waterfront bouncer 6/10
6 maze of ith 5/10
7 gilded drake 5/10
8 claw of gix 4/10

What you think about? Have you got others ideas or opinion?

Axor

so... how fish can combat oath?

in my opinion.... if we can play bouncer we can fight this deck with good results.
And gilded drake can help us to combat colossus (if it is not countered...)

Mad Idea: post side... we can side out all creatures and side reb drake boucers, f/i, flux r'n'r... in this way we have only creatures who can help us, and other "utilities..."  

This is the answer.

But you see oath as the new best unpowered deck? Oath wins ONLY if oaht of druids comes in play, and you can stifle, tap its creature with f/i.... Fish player doesn't lose if oath comes in play...  

Against oath we still have Maze of Ith...

I think fish would be strong against oath... We could side waterfront...
But maze is better in my opinion...

@ lucca, yesterday Oath won the Tipe 1 Tournament.

If this deck will run to be a tier1 or 1,5 I will think to side some bouncers, as waterfront bouncer.

Main Deck I made some changes: 2 red fetchlands and 1 mountain, testing I see that the mana red is more stable Vs Wasteland.

Oath wins by a single card: oath of druids. If u counter oath you have the victory in your hands.

If oath would became a tier 1 or 1.5 we can put in side sigil of sleep or echoing truth, but remember that we have also 3 maze of ith.... Colossus lose the right way to do damage!!!    

 I think the monomountain maybe a good choise.

@ shikari: if you play vs a player (in mirror match) you can side off: n rod, gorillas, shaman.... And you must side in beb, f/i (if you sided them) and reb.

The advantage in mirror is made by lavamancer and mana denial that make your board advantage. And if you have board advantage you can also draw with curiosity/standstill. F/i helps you to have board advantage, and reb and beb wash the table and counter its fow/daze or other.

1) brainstorm: I agree.... but only because the draw engine is strong also with only curiosity and standstill.

2) without brainstorm standstill is very important, and a strong card.

3) For f/i I think that they are really good. They can wash the board and do damage to opponent.

4) crucible is strong, 1 or 2 copies are a must.

5) 3 factories are the right nr... If I put 4 I could go on mana screw...

6) I thinked this deck without P9s... I agree they are very strong (no comment!!!) but I have only mox sapphire...  

7) I'm not a token. I know how play at first turn if oppo has on board a wasteland.

8) Misdirection is really good card. But play only a copy is not usefull without ancestral and mistycal tutor. 2 copies would be better.

9) I can play energy flux at 2 turn (if I have lotus petal). If not I cast null rod and after flux. And artifact.... Suck!

10) maze of ith is usefull with Atog and dragon (post side). Those decks doesn't have wasteland, they have not slots for them.

11) Many decks lose  Vs Ws.dec and Dragon. But null rod and flux may make a good work vs ws.deck and stifle bounces (+ beb) are good cards vs dragon.

*note Reb are very strong against mirror. Not side them is an error.

I don't comment you powered list.

       

@ freakish777: My name is aXor.  

For the discussion on Brainstorm, Standstill and Curiosity I think that their target is different:

Brainstorm: with this card I can search good cards if I can't play curiosity or standstill. If I have not board advantage how can I draw solutions? Only with my draw step?

Standstill: I play it as soon as possible, with a cloud or 1-2 mishra on board this card makes pressure on the oppo.

Curiosity: with cloud is great, also with spiketail or grim lavamancer.

Those cards have different objectives: Brain for NO board advantage, standstill for board advantage and curiosity for the middle vantage (if oppo has a creature without flying I can beat with cloud and draw).

I agree for the fact to test goblin vandals and gorillas. I will try the vandals first.

@Sam: for moxes I have the great null rods... Gorilla shaman can't destroy trinisphere in few time... Vandals can do it.

For the fish u/w... I will post a link in few time!

Ciao Ciao!  

The draw engine of fish is very strong: curiosity and standstill, more brainstorm.

In this way fish can draw when is in board advantage with curioristy e standstill, and it can draw when is not in advantage.

I'm still thinking to try goblin vandals.... In a meta populed by artifacts they could be a tech....

Ah, I don't know all rules of this forum (however I read the Rule Topic).

In my opinion play only one copy of misdi is useless, at least 2 are good.

I play this deck unpowered because Tournaments made here (italy) have big premiums for unpowered decks, abitually power nines, more the First premium (another p9). For sample @ Piacenza there were 1 black lotus alpha exc- for 1st place, 1 timetwister unl nm for the 2nd place, and for better unpowered a Mox Emerald Beta nm to exc. In italian meta players use deck that are majorly powered (about 60% powered and 40% unpowered). This deck has big possibility vs powered decks, because it has null rods and gorillas.
His speed is the key for the Victory, because it can beat and control at the same time.

For the deck: I think I will playtest 1 library of Alexandria (- 1 island) and 2 goblin vandal (-2 gorilla shaman).
What you think about?

Byez  

My matches have been extra easy vs mirror UW and mirror URW, 2 keeper where I won without difficoulties, 1 elf-combo GW that lost in few time, extra easy game vs tps UB full power.....

 I suk from 1 stacks ur, 1 monobrown and a Dragon Unspoil (who arrived in top 8, best unpowered)

@ Jacob sorry but I don't understand you warning... Please send me a private message where I can understand me errors. Thx

In my opinion, fish is a deck born to played without power nines.
For thoses reasons, it plays null rod.

@Covetous: The mana base is weak, with wasteland the opponent can easy lock me..

@ True Lies Ownz: mono misdi is useless... Too causal!!  The best way to use misdi is to redirect an A recall or a Mindtwist, or I can use it in a counter-war... But in my opinion play only a misdi is really useless... At least 2......!

Hi, I am a new user coming from Italy.  
I post here my deck to feel councils and different opinion from Italy.
I play now gay red and I believe in this deck.

DECK LIST - SUPERMAN GAY RED

Counter effects:

4 Force of will
3 Daze

Draw engine:

4 Curiosity
3 Brainstorm
3 Standstill

Creatures:

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Grim lavamancer
2 Gorilla shaman

Utilities:

3 Stifle
3 Fire/ice

Artifacts:

3 Null rod
1 Crucible

Lands:

4 Polluted delta
4 Volcanic island
4 Island
3 Factory
4 Waste
1 Strip

SIDE:

3 REB
3 BEB
2 Energy flux
2 Echoing Truth
3 Maze of Ith
2 Rack'n'Ruin

EXPLANATION OF DECK:

FOW: I haven't any comment... The best counter in magic!!

Daze: great in the logic of mana denial!

Curiosity: the real draw engine of this deck. Cloud of faeries + curiosity is the best way to go on advantage!!

Brainstorm: if my oppo is in board advantge and I can't play standstill or curiosity on my fish I must search solution with this spell. With fetchland it can change trash on my hand with new cards shuffling my deck.

Standstill: If I am in board advantage thi is the card that can make me the winner of game. If oppo play spell I draw 3 cards, and counter of stifle or f/i will make their must!

Cloud of Faeries: this creature is great! 1/1 flying a cc 0. On the second turn is too strong if enchanted with curiosity.

Spiketail Hatchling: this creature is fundamental to control the oppo. A combo player must do its combo after a turn, and with daze spiketail may be lethal!

Grim Lavamancer: the reason to splash fish with red. This is a great creature, with have many functions: remove opponent's creatures, make damage and he can be casted with 1 red mana!

Gorilla Shaman: with null rod the jewelery op opponent is death! I play only 2 shaman because I have 3 null rod that can make the same effect. If casted on 1st turn I can destroy Calice of the Void.

Stifle:this card can be used in many ways: stifle on fetch, on worldgorger, on tendrils, on perniciuos, on charbelcher.... Great Card!!

Fire/Ice: this is another great card! It can wash the board by creatures of the opponent, or tap creatures or permanents that are annoying...

Null Rod: Have you got moxes? Have you got a Charlbelcher? Have you got artifacts? Eh eh eh...  This a card that can give me the victory, and it can make mana denial on jewelery...  

Crucible: This card is.... More than Great! Extra with strip mine, Super with waste... Regenerate Mishra's factory.... 1000 fetch... Strong!!

Polluted: .....................

Volcanic Island: .............

Island: ...............

Waste+Strip: great for mana denial and to control the oppo.

Factory: beh, what I can say? Great manland, better with standstill!


SIDEBOARD:

3 REB Vs mirror, tps, smemmen-monoblue (    ), Stacks ur
3 BEB Vs worgorger, mirror, aggro/gobbelinz, stacks ur
2 Energy flux Vs ws.deck, stacks ur, stacker
2 Echoing Truth Vs Dragon (and verdant), tps (for Colossus), aggro
3 Maze of Ith Vs hulk smash, dragon (for verdant)
2 Rack'n'Ruin Vs artifact deck


I WANT NOT USE:

MISDIRECTION: 1x is too casual, in tournament of 26/09 @ Piacenza (239 peoples), classified 36° for rating, I never used it, never. Death Card.  

LOTUS PETAL: also this is too casual. In 1° turn may be ok, but after... And if oppo has a welder in play he can change your great null rod with this small black lotus.....  


Thank you for reading, and I wait your opinions!  

Axor the Superman