Hi Drainers!

This thread sure has developed fast!!

Ive been thinking a lot of what to play lately, I just got home from 6 months out of the country. So now Ive got time for cards again..

I thought of TMWA. A R/W/b build (with Seek and Darkblast). But now Im thinking B/W/r. I understand that people are a lot more sceptic of a 3c aggro decks in the, so to speak, “international meta”??

I cant see why you should make a monocolored Sui deck. Besides mana stability. Why not utilize white, which has some awesome answers and critters. I don’t think a white splash would damage the consistency..

R in TMWA doesn’t contributes with anything that broken besides Pyropillar, which is an aweseome card. Other than that its mostly artifact hate, and I think that Sui can handle this just as well as TMWA. If you have both Jotun Grunts and Negators in a deck you have some serious whoop-ass possibilities. And if you can make Sui handle the artifacts just as well as TMWA you win a lot of other nice hate cards and critters. Especially Confidant!

Ive been looking a lot at Hide/Seek. I think it’s a great card with some nice hate-potential.
I thought about making B/W Sui with a couple of fetches and duals to make it possible to use the Hide-part of Hide/Seek. This makes a decent DSC answer!
Im not sure of the total creaturebase, though Im sure I would use Confidant (sorry, Bob?), Grunt, a couple of Negator and perhaps a few Kataki. Swords maindeck and Hide/Seek as well. Disenchant/Seal of Cleansing could have a place I SB. For me it looks like white has something to offer to Sui.
I would also consider Chains, it seems nice with the Confidant and it should stop combo as Pyropillar does in TMWA.

But whats your idea on splashing R for the full use of Hide/Seek?? Is it worth it?


Lars Petersen

I thought of this decklist:

The Mountains Win Again, DK-style.

Mana/Strip: (25)
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
4 Plateau
3 Mishras Factory
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
1 Plains

Spells: (17)
4 Magma Jet
4 Hide/Seek
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Darkblast
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Enlightened Tutor

Disruption with a Body: (18)
4 Jotun Grunt
4 Goblin Welder
3 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Goblin Vandal
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Genju of the Spires

SB: Meta..

Its purely theoretical, unfortunately. But I WILL build this deck when I get home to my cards in a weeks time. I hope I can test it soon, but my meta really sucks. Though Ill try it out in a lager meta when I get the chance.

I dunno if its worth cutting a factory for lotus. I thought that a turn 1 lotus could be a winner.. Though it sucks mid/lategame. As any mana source in this deck

I still wonder whether or not grim lavamancer will be too weak when running 4 MD grunts. And is 4 MD too much?? I really wanna draw 1 per game. And Im likely to get 1 taken care of. So should 4 be the number. Or??

I should be able to deal with DSC, I might need 1 more pillar MD against all the combo out there. Creature-hate seems to be present enough. Combo- and dragonhate could be furthermore presented in the SB.

Any comments on the decklist I came up with?

Lars Petersen

Im more convinced that I was in the begging. BUT! As Aaron claims in the end of his reply.. Hide/Seek would be worth splashing black for in my oppinion. It seems like a very powerful card. And it grants you the chance to see what your adversary is playing

I understand that Demonic is a bad card to choose. This came to my mind after I poted the reply earlier on. And as you folks have been confirming. Its simply to slow.

But if you want to take advantage of Seek then you have to splash black. And the question is whether or not it will fuckup the mana base.. When your facing Wastelands at least.

Im definently gonna try out splashing black for Hide/Seek. And Darkblast could be a nice card too.. But then we have the problem again Not too many blacks..

More comments on splashing black??

Lars Petersen

Hi Drainers!

Nice to see that somebody believes in a black splash.. Ill try it out too when I get the chance..

I was wondering. Since the deck has NO draw and only some inferior "card management" in Magma Jet and Enlightened Tutor. Couldn't you add a Demonic Tutor for some extra consistency?? I know its B1 for picking a card. But since you pretty much depend on what you draw in this deck it would be nice with the tutor.. Any comments??

As for the Grim Lavamancer (I LOVE him!!), how is he working with Jotun Grunt?? As I wrote I havnt had the time to play the deck. And my meta is not really the typical vintage meta. So therefore Im asking you guys. But I could imagine that youre gonna eat yup your own graveyard when the grunt has finished up most of your opponents??
Perhaps thats just due to my slow meta where theres not really an abundance of cards in the yard.


Just some thoughts. I like the idea of black splash as well.. Looking forward to testing!

LP

Hi Drainers!

Ive been following this thread for some days now.. Havnt got the time to read it all since im quite busy, sorry about posting before thats done! Im printing the entire topic now so I can read it on occation.

My question to all of you is:

Since you "only" utilize the white spells Disenchant and StoP, could you perhaps splash for a 3rd color??

I know its dangerous, but with fetch, power and duals it should be possible to make a competitive 3 color aggrocontrol, dont you agree??

My first thought is BLACK! Cards like Duress, Cabal Therapy, yardhate with a body, tutor(s), Negators and maybe Chains of Mephistopheles (a card I think has a lot of potential). And other misc cards.

Another thought is simply splashing a R/G beats/metahate (call it whatever) with white for StoP!

Im simply curious, Im quite the newb on vintage deckbuilding, but I love aggro and would like to see more decks of this kind getting developed..

Im sure you guys have allready thought these ideas through. But lemme know why it wont work then

Lars Petersen, Kosovo.

Yeah.. Thx for the idea

I'll try that out, but how about the regular Regrowth, would it be any good in the deck? I could go 3 Witness + 1 Regrowth MD and the 1 Witness SB (or atleast try it) But whats your opinion on Regrowth, is it too crappy when you don't get a 2/1 hitter??

Lars P.

Again I can't thank you enough Freakish

Yup.. Smokestack seems a little bleak when I can recur strip-effects. And I don't wanna sac all my lands too it. Crucible's a bad choice too, so yes. Smokestack's the weak link.

As for the Sphere (after testing the "old" version of the deck) I find them essetial to slow your opponent. Especially in my own meta where I see alot of aggro, so this card really makes their day look shitty..

About Exploration I have considered it. And I have a few left not in use so i might test. BUT the reason I went with elves is that they can be tapped to Tangle Wire, AND they can beat/block if necesarry. Still you usually wanna drop a fast Tangle Wire (is not a LD effect) and elves/CC2 artifacts and lands are usually the only thing for me to tap. So the elves are great. Still I think I'll give Explration a chance and test it.

In your suggestion on a SB I see a Witness.. Is that supposed to go there so I only have 3 MD?? And whats the reason for this?? To be able to fetch it if I really need one??

Reason I'm not going with fetchlands is the 3 MD Root Maze. These would really screw my fetch.

Land Grants I once played in a elf-stompy and damn they worked. A great card that should be used in any mono-G deck (especially if the opponent have a hard time countering due to his lack of available mana) And this card would help thinout my deck as I can't go with fetch.

I have a hard time figuring out which Sphere to play, but I have to test 'em..

Thanks again, and plz, keep posting I'm really getting alot outta this.

Sincerely, Lars P.

Thx for comforting me Drathro!

I guess someone mentioned the advantage of Thermokarst before.

But thx anyway!

No comments on my "new build"?? I'm about to  test with/without Living Wish.. And I have another idea too. IF I would go with the land-tutor concept. Would Sylvan Scrying be better than Wish??

Lars P.

Well, I'm no great thinker. But I'd say that Distress is about   too expensive Yeah, I know it had been awesome if it costed just , but I would anytime choose Hymn over Distress. And I would'nt even let Distress see T1 play.

Short and brief answer, but it's my opinion.

Sincerely, Lars P.

Yup Marton, I've been looking for that one too. In vain of course. Too bad.

Freakish777; Thx alot for you support and your ideas. I have considered the Wish, but agian this is a totally different kind of deck in my eyes. Though it is tempting
Have you got any suggestions to what to cut for 2-3 Crucible?? Perhaps the Smokestacks?? If I go the Wish-way and SB som usefull creatures I don't want to be saccing them in my next upkeep.
Thanks for your enormous amount of inspiration!

Thanks to your other guys too!

I've been looking at my deck, and a way to fit in 4 Witness (well, i gotta try 'em;)) and 3 Root Maze (consider 4 overkill, I only need 1 on the table, and if I can't draw that one I'mpretty sure I have an Elf as turn 1 drop.)

Here's my decklist as I think it should look now: (this is very improvised and I havn't given the Wish-thing alotta thought. Yet.)

Lands:
4 Land Grant
13 Forest
3 Wasteland
total: 20

Mana acceleration:
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
total: 10

LD:
4 Ice Storm
2 Winters Grasp
total: 6

Utility/tricks:
4 Living Wish
4 Eternal Witness
4 Tangle Wire
3 Root Maze
3 Sphere of Resistance/3Sphere
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Powder Keg
total: 24

SIDEBOARD: (not finished, have made other suggestions, tell me what you think)

1 Argothian Wurm
1 Masticore
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Ravenous Baloth/Weatherseed Treefolk (good dmg. good abilities)
1 River Boa (??)
1 Blastoderm
1 Wall of Blossoms (against weenie?? could stop the single Kird Ape/Savannah Lion my opponent is likely to get out on the table)
1-2 Viridian Zealot/Elvish Scrapper/Druid Lyrist
1 Maze of Ith
1 Rishadan Port
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine


Well, it's a start. To my main concerns:

-Mana Crypt: With no Smokestack this card becomes even more hazardous. Dropped

-Argothian Wurm: I would like to squeeze in a single or a few maindeck. But is this really necesarry considering the Living Wish??

-Rishadan Port: I feel that these are supposed to stay maindeck. But why?? I might as well just keep a single in SB, right??

-I would like to try and fit 3 Sword of Fire/Ice in the maindeck, as a secondary kill. If i really can't get a Wish resolved. But where should they go??

-Think I could also go with some more artifact mana. Mox Emerald, Black Lotus are cards I'm on the lookout for. But not cards I expect to have within my grasp for the next couple of months. If I do it'll be the Emerald.
Other cards that might boost my deck in speed?

Think that's all for now. I'm still looking at my deck and trying to think of cards to abuse with the Wish. LMK if you guys have any good suggestions.

Sincerely, Lars Petersen.

(Again thanks for the best feedback I've ever got.)

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EDIT:
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I've been questioning the power og Living Wish,  and whether or not it's too slow. I've now got the 4 Wish I need to test (hate proxies) and I'll start testing on thuesday with the whole Magic-gang.
Further test-results will be posted about wednesday.
Keep it up with the good feedback, havn't seen anything the last 24 hrs. so cmon. Give it to me!

LP.

A 1000 thanks once again, Toad (and you other guys)

Again I have a very alternate/unusual Meta.. And Wastelands are not half as broken as they are in a more normal Meta. And this effects my Terravore too.
But then you're probaly right, IF I was playing in a normal Meta. Right now I just have to improvise and use something else untill I get to Copenhagen for 4 month to serve in the Army (Ohh Uh Ohh We're in the Army Now.. ) Then I'll be able to make a more "international" decklist

Thx again Toad!

Lars P.

Funny you mention it, Marton!

I was just looking through my cards for trade and fell over my 3 SoFI. Those on a Witness/Elf could be painfull. Think I'll test them.

First I thought ill of the idea, hadn't considered equipment at all ('cept Clamp which i dropped)

But it's definetly worth trying.

Thx! You post arose my curiosity.

Lars P.

Thanks alot for your explaination Razvan!

I'm still trying to figure out what to cut for both Root Maze and the Witness. Will it work to cut LD spells for the Witness??

And what should I choose to have as a secondary kill?? I don't consider Elves + Witness as a reliable kill. Then I only have the Wurm, and Terravore + Fetch does not worm with an active Root Maze. Terravore with no fetches is'nt broken enough IMO.

Thx for your reply! Keep em comming

LP.

First of all thanks to all of you guys for the fantastic feedback! (hope more is to come??)

A friend of mine have made a homebrewed G/U Crucible/Exploration/Fastbond/Zuran Orb/Cephalid Coliseum deck. And it works (too bad for me, I got my ass kicked) With cards like Intuition, AK and Counters for draw/stall.

Again this is not the approach I want to make on this deck. But i CAN see that the Witness is nice. Though I do not know what to cut for it. It seems overkill to run almost 10 LD spells + 4 Witness. And i would like a secondary wincondition, Argothian Wurm can dissapoint you if your opponent is in control and have too many lands. Of course this is a scene that shouldn't occur too often, but it does happen once in awhile. Then it's nice to topdeck a Terravore. Then I have a kill in Elves + Witness, this seems kinda improvised though.

I would indeed like to be able to play Root Maze, but with loads of Fetchlands for a hungry Terravore thats not possible. If I chose to play Root Maze, Terravore wouldn't be a choice for this deck.

I also considered a card like Sylvan Scrying (MD Living Wish, 'cept the creature fetching). But I still don't know how to make it good enough for the deck, if you understand me. If I could somehow break Sylvan Scrying so it could be awesome. I have a feeling that it could be a great card. Just not how at the moment (you know that feeling??)

Perhaps the right approach would be with Living Wish to fecth a Strip Mine, Wasteland, Maze of Ith, Rishadan Port or something else?? I really don't know and i have alot of thoughts going for this deck now, and it REALLY confuses me

As I mentioned I don't want to make a Crucible deck.  

And I still can't quite see why Witness would help THAT much on exactly my build. If i fetch a LD spell i could just as well play one instead. Actually I pay            For a LD spell + a Savannah Lion. That's not a bargain in my eyes, but again I might not have understood the brokeness of Witness, so please. Enlighten me.
[EDIT: This is IF the Witness is used to recur a LD spell, otherwise it could bring back needed utility instead. Tangle Wire etc. But please explain why it is so good when recurring LD spells, thx! ]

And do any of you have suggestions for how I could rearange my particular build?? I would like to see suggestions on this. I really don't know what to cut, so gimme your oppinion!

Hope I get as good feedback as I've got so far!

Sincerely, Lars P.

Hey!

First of all excuse me of my english, which isn't that good, and not least my punctuation. I hope the admins don't erase my topic due to this

I'm a new TMD user. I've played MTG for about 6-8 months, and never visited a sanctioned Tournament due to my place of residence, which is placed on a goddamn island with a population of about 45K.

I'm the co-founder of a new MTG club on the island where I live (which, by the way, is called Bornholm if anyone would like to know.)

Well, to the point. I've surfed numerous sites since I started playing Magic, some less serious than others, and I sure find TMD to my liking.

I play all kinds of budget decks. Including Ankh Sligh, B/G Suicide, Fish and not least my beloved Enchantress (only 'cuz it's fun to play).
Lately I've tried out my build on a MonoG Land Destruction deck, the idea of MGC just thrilled me.

The Decklist:

Land:
2 Wasteland (due to meta)
1 Strip Mine
3 Rishadan Port
13 Forest
total: 19

Kill:
4 Argothian Wurm
3 Troll Ascetic
total: 7

Mana:
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
total: 10

LD:
4 Winters Grasp
3 Creeping Mold
2 Thermokarst
total: 9

Utility:
4 Powder Keg
4 Tangle Wire
3 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
total: 15

Ok, then the cardchoices:

Lands:
Lots of Forests of course, and Strips too (only 2 Wasteland due to a meta that, from time to time, only runs basiclands. I hate it!)
Rishadan Port is great, in mid-game I tap an opponents land with mana I would'nt be able to spend otherwise. Works fine.

Kill:
I've found Argothian Wurm to my liking, if your opponent sacs a land (which he already desperatly needs to play his lowcost spells) you almost get a LD spell with buyback   -Except you only draw it your next turn. But it's worth it. If you just have a few critters on the table, and a few threats too, then he is forced to let the Wurm enter play. If he won't you just wait untill he's outta lands to sac.

Troll Ascetic is a nice critter. No doubts there. I've been playing Terravore + loads of fetchslands, but I still don't think he does the job well enough. He's caused me too many problems. So I think I'll go with Troll again (as I have done before). Suggestions??

Mana:
8 Mana elves are essential IMO. Mana Crypt can be discussed, since it's a slow deck. But so far it have done the job well. Sol Ring is a must.
I still think I need some mana acceleration. I'm soon to get my first power card. -A Mox Emerald, which will get it's place in this deck immediatly. Still I've considered cards like Lotus Petal, Mox Diamond and even Thran Dynamo or other artifacts which produces an good amount of colorless mana for my artifacts. Later they can always be tapped to Tangle Wire or sacced to Smokestack. Suggestions??

LD:
Yes, yes, yes. I know everybody SCREAMS Ice Storm. I'm about to get the 2 I had back, then I'm only 2 short, and they'll come. So just pretend that I've listed 4 Ice Storm
I've heard people complain about Creeping Mold. At first I could'nt understand them, but as I think of it, perhaps MD enchantment-hate isn't important in this deck. And Powder Keg can take care of artifacts if any should occur.  I might wanna cut these for some cheaper LD spells. Think I'll run 4 Ice Storm, 3 Winters Grasp and 2 Thermokarst.
9 LD spells, what do you guys think about this?? Enough?? Not enough?? Or more than enough?? Suggestions??

Utilities:
Many of these explain themselves. Alot of them have a good synergy with eachother. Tangle Wire is a pain in the ass for any opponent, unless he/she can deal with it. Which is rarely seen. You can tap any other artifact you have in play to it. Unless you wanna use your Powder Keg you can always tap it.
Smokestack is amazing since you've almost always got a tons more permanents than your opponent.
Powder Keg sweeps the table for any unwanted weenies or irritating artifacts.
Sphere of Resistance makes your opponent cry when he hasn't got any mana, and you have loads of it. I considered 3Sphere instead of Sphere of Res. But I have to test this alittle more. Suggestions??

It's hard for me to write about matchups since i meet everything. Mainly unpowered aggro and control.
My goal with this topic is to get my deck better and more resistant to different types of decks. One of my problems ATM are weenies, some critters just get out too fast and too many. I considered Root Maze against these, but where's the room for them??

Sideboard is a meta-thing I think. But I'm convinced that I'll play Spreading Algae against the many different Suicide builds I meet. As these decks quickly get annoying if they gain access the right amounts of mana. Other cards for my SB would be Naturalize/Oxidize and other hate cards. I would like to get suggestions for these as well!

I would appreciate any constructive feedback, so don't hold back your thoughts.

Sincerely, Lars Petersen.