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1  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / what can fish do against oath? on: October 31, 2004, 09:38:34 am
still the biggest problem is the pristine/iridescent angel they will side in for you cannot target them. what is there to do against them?? and yeah if you want to play sigil of sleep, play them on lavamancer/ tim wannabe's/river boa cuase else it will only work against a spirit of the night. by the way there's a good oath article here.

o jeah the cap was a joke of course.
2  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / what can fish do against oath? on: October 30, 2004, 10:21:56 am
everyone can see the new rise of oath of druids(see http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=8335), thanks to forbidden orchard. now there's the downfall of fish (see gencon) and fish should really get a tool to beat oath but the question is what?? there are 2 versions of fish: u/r gay-red, u/r/g wtf/r tuned for mirror match. the decklists:

u/r gay-red:

4x spiketail hatchling
4x cloud of faeries
4x grim lavamancer
1x gorilla shaman

4x force of will
3x daze
4x curiosity
4x standstill
3x null rod
3x stifle
2x crucible of worlds
1x misdirection

4x volcanic island
4x wasteland
4x mishra's factory
3x polluted delta
1x flooded strand
1x wooded foothills
2x faerie conclave
2x island
1x strip mine
1x mountain

SB:
4x blue elemental blast
4x red elemental blast
4x fire/ice
3x sword of fire and ice

u/r/g wtf:

4x Grim Lavamancer
4x River Boa
4x Spiketail Hatchling
2x Call of the Herd
1x Gorilla Shaman

4x Brainstorm
4x Curisity
4x Force of Will
3x Null Rod
2x Fire/Ice
2x Oxidize
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Echoing Truth

4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
4x Tropical Island
4x Volcanic Island
1x Island
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory

SB:
2x REB
2x BEB
2x Naturalize
3x Artifact Mutation
1x Crucible
1x Fire/Ice
2x Sigil of Sleep
2x Maze of Ith

ok so what are the cards against oath of druids?

Maze of Ith:

ok so your oath resolves and you get a really big fatty on the table? great! now try attacking! it works but not very long if you don't got anything aainst wasteland/strip mine. even a crucible won't help you here.

echoing truth/unsummon/chain of vapor:

works really great. the moment the akroma/spirit of the night enters play you bounce them back to where they came from. oath decks don't have awnsers to that kind of removal if it resolves.

control magic:

why beat them if you can use them for own use? works nice if it resolves (but that's with all of the cards..) but is a little costy and won't stop the first 6 damage the turn akroma/spirit of the night comes into play.

the only problem with the colored spells who try to do anything about akroma/spirit of the night is that the moment you side these spells in they side akroma/sprit of the night out for pristine angel and iridescent angel, wich you cannot target with colored spells. so what we must do is stop the oath from triggering. not playing creatures is not a option cause that is where the orchard comes in the picture. so what else? destroying the oath before it triggers? there's an option:

naturalize:

only works in wtf/r but that is the stronger one of the 2 versions. thers's not much to say about this one other then it works and if oath keeps proving to be the strongest deck that it will replace oxidize in a lot of sideboards.

Viridian Zealot:

same s naturalize but it's a creature what is more fish-like.

decimate:

not a good choise for the only one who has creatures is you.

but why would you stop the triggering when you can make sure that your opponent does't want it to trigger? but how?

jester's cap:

most of the time your opponent won't side artifact removal in and most of the time he will only have 2 creatures to search for. the good old cap will remove those 2 creatures, saying i win!! ok it's kind of slow but it is by far the most effective way and also the funniest one.

the only other way to stop this deck is stopping oath is stopping the oath from being played at all. for this there are counters. but fish already plays the best counters you can find, but maybe not enough....

my conclusion: is you want to get a shot at beating oath with fish, try WTF for that is the version with the most removal for the oath.

any tips/comments?
3  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [DECK] Italian Gay Red Fish - looking for advice on: October 27, 2004, 04:00:19 pm
Quote from: lep
I have been playing fish or a variation of it since January of 2003.  I have never had an issue with BTB and my mana base is as follows;

3 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
3 Island
4 Mishra's Factory

Notice no Faerie Conclave.  Too slow and too bulky.  I also refuse to run the Voidmage \ Spiketail build.  If they are siding in BtB you are siding in REB, as are they.  You just need to catch him off guard and have force backup if it is hindering your game that much.

But, in all honesty, Fish should constantly force MonoU into the defensive.  You are playing a majorly aggro deck.  They cant afford to drop an early game BtB because they need to leave Drain or Leak mana open.  Avoid dropping 2 drops unless you have counter backup.  (Dont want them Draining into a BtB).  This is another reason I dropped the spiketails and voidmages.  I opted to run Lightning Bolt, Unstable Mutation, Mox Monkey, Goblin Vandal, and a bunch of other meta choices to reduce my mana curve to less then 2.


could you show us your deck?? a fish deck without spiketails is kind of weird
4  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [DECK] Italian Gay Red Fish - looking for advice on: October 27, 2004, 04:30:12 am
my build is almost the same but there are some changes:

 - I use the 1 misdirection cause with 3 stifle and 1 misdirection you can   counter a wasteland almost every time, what is needed in some matchups

 - 4 mishra's factorys are needed

 - 4 REB in sideboard for mirror match, mono-blue (kill back to basics) and gro-a-tog

 - 4 BEB in sideboard for FCG and most important welder based decks (see top 8 of gencon Smile )
 
 - 5 blue-based fetch if you want red try fetching volcanic island Smile

 - 3 basicland to avoid back to basics

the deck:

4x spiketail hatchling
4x cloud of faeries
4x grim lavamancer
1x gorilla shaman

4x force of will
3x daze
4x curiosity
4x standstill
3x null rod
3x stifle
2x crucible of worlds
1x misdirection

4x volcanic island
4x wasteland
4x mishra's factory
3x polluted delta
2x flooded strand
2x faerie conclave
2x island
1x strip mine
1x mountain

SB:
4x blue elemental blast
4x red elemental blast
4x fire/ice
3x sword of fire and ice

any tips/comments??
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