I'm not able to test much in person, so I often turn to Magic-League.com to test and whatnot. The players there as a whole are a fairly competent bunch. Many well-seasoned Magic veterans and all that. You'll get your fair share of scrubs as you will anywhere else, but I've found it to be a great way to follow what new decks are rising to the top and what to watch out for in real life.

I really don't think Hulk can operate properly as UBR or even UBG for that matter. Hulk is a 4 color deck as far as I'm concerned, and you used green for Deeds, Berserk, and Ground Seal. Running one or two Trops wouldn't affect the manabase so much. I run two UGs, two Volcs, and two Trops. I have no problems at all, and I have red for my great SB cards, and green for Deeds, which is the best board control there is. Not to mention the very kill combo Hulk is based around is a green card. I just think taking green out of Hulk is like taking red out of Control Slaver.

Wouldn't fetches put him at a severe disadvantage with his Ankh of Mishra? He would be taking 4 dmg for every fetched land while he could be taking 2.

Wooded Foothills
, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Wooded Foothills: Search your library for a Mountain or Forest card and put it into play. Then shuffle your library.

Ankh of Mishra
Whenever a land comes into play, Ankh of Mishra deals 2 damage to that land's controller.


Fetches are great synergy with Grim Lavamancer but the Ankh really screws with that plan. I can't think of a situation where I would ever consider playing Ankh of Mishra in any Vintage deck. I'm sure it only works correctly in land destruction decks, and those... don't exist in Vintage.

I personally don't understand what people are running Engineered Explosives for. It's slow as hell, and it only nails a one CC range. Why isn't Deed seeing play? Granted, Explosives is colorless, but it takes several turns to blow it for any worth usually, where Deed can wipe the board clean the turn after it's played. Cleans up Welders, artifacts, B2B, Oath, and even fatties like Platinum Angel, or Akroma or whatever. Also, Explosives is an artifact, and people usually have more artifact removal than enchantment removal. One of those Hulk builds doesn't even run Brainstorms... and they're both running 4 Cunning Wish... maybe the Italian meta is something far far different from what we're playing. The builds show as such anyway.

This is one of the few decks where blue is just a bad idea. 8 dual lands? Have you been following the meta? Basics, basics, basics. Use as few duals and colors as possible. Anyways, black would've been a better color addition IF adding a color was necessary to improve the build. Not that I would do something as silly as that, either.  :shock:

Someone should post the decklist we're working off so we know what we're looking at here. I guess I'll assume you run two Living Wish? I'd take them out for Duress, or Unmask even. I'm trying to remember other cards that Belcher can afford to lose but none come to mind. Belcher has a really tight build that seems to need almost ever card in the deck. Post a list and let's pick it apart?

The manabase should look something like this:

3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
6 Plains
4 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus

I guess it seems like alot of mana cards, but I took the original number of mana cards and just added basics and cut duals. Maybe cut the overall number down some? I dunno, I'm not familar with how picky the decks manabase is.

I would even consider dropping down to 2 Tundras and maybe adding another Island. If you're going to run B2B you need to take full advantage of it. Also, I don't think red fits at all. Trenches is too slow of a win condition, I'd run some Exalted Angels.

Also, finding slots for the Intuition+AK draw engine would probably be your best bet for drawing. Maybe cut Crucibles to make some room?

That build is 64 cards, and Regrowth is restricted, just thought I'd let you know. Guess it works out though cuz now your deck is 61 cards.

I'd take out the Crucible, and not consider Wastelands at all. You need basics. Maybe 4 islands and 1 swamp, 2 would be ideal if you could pull it off. Also, run at least one Deed in mainboard. I run two, and from experience, it man-handles Stax decks if you can FoW their first turn Trinisphere.

My manabase is something like:
2 UG Sea
2 Trop Island
2 Volc Island
5 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
1 LoA
1 Strip Mine

It's a fairly new modification, but if you start off fetching for a couple basics, you won't be held victim to any game-winning early game Crucible/Wasteland lock.

Yeah, I actually ran 2 Crucibles in my build for a long time along with 3 Wastelands. Crucible is just so strong with waste/strip locks that it's hard to cut, even if it doesn't hold true to what the aim of a Hulk deck should be. Crucible lock is brutal, and is the game winner almost 100% of the time if your opponent can't find an answer for it within the next few turns. But ironicly enough, the reason I took OUT Crucible and my Wastes was BECAUSE of opposing Crucibles. I needed the Wasteland slots for basics, because getting Crucible/Wasteland locked was happening too often for my liking. So now I run alot of basics, and basically only fetch for Trops and Volcs when I'm almost ready to dig into the sideboard. Starting the game off with a bunch of basic Islands is probably a key move in this current meta.

//Main
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
2 Swamp
5 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
3 Psychatog
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Duress
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Cunning Wish
2 Intuition
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk

//Sideboard
3 Ground Seal
2 Back to Basics
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Fire / Ice
1 Snuff Out
1 Berserk
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Naturalize
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Red Elemental Blast


Here's my build, I've been toying with it forever, and can't find a steady manabase. I decided to go 2 for each dual land, and run alot of basics to counter the brutal effects of Crucible. Anyone have any thoughts on how I can optimize?

Does anyone think Crucible can find a place in current Tog builds? I ran it for awhile and as we all know, Crucible is often the game winner in 40%  of those situations. Just wanted to know what everyone else thought of running this card, especially with the Wasteland synergy.

Your manabase seems very unbalanced. I wouldn't be running 5 fetches and 4 wastelands. I've found 4 fetches and 3 wastelands to run pretty smoothly. That leaves room to add in at LEAST one more Tropical Island, and maybe a 4th Underground Sea. Also, if you run Wastelands, Crucible of Worlds is always something to consider in your build