The people here who play multi-colored sligh like RW -- and use Lynx with loads of fetchlands to boost lynx into a big beat stick -- the same way I use bolts to boost Kiln Feind.

So the people who used Wastelands -- they were all 'dead cards' as I was one of 2 who ran mono-colored. The other guy who ran single-color -- ran a weak MUD deck. Which is why PoP basically stayed in my MD most of the tournament.

With all I see and played against yesterday -- PoP, REB, Blood Moons were my best SB inserts. Hardly anybody used artifacts, so I generally had no need for Null rods, and even kept my mox monkeys out (although I sure wished I had those Monkeys MD when the tourney winner brought out his Jittes .. ). Pillar is MD -- and rarely gets SB'd out.

In yesterdays tourney -- my Fireblasts, Gob Guides and Grims were the keys to my wins.

Yeah I was looking at Bitterblossums .. I got tired of running into flying critters at yesterdays tournament. I'll run that list (although for me, I like Thoughtseize a bit better, since I could look at thier hand and give me an idea what they're up to .. lol). But wth all the self-damage, which is why I would have the Jitte's MD .. but your list looks very cool.

Yeah -- I normally use Consultation - and only for 2 life --

Jitte in the SB eh? but with all the damage I'm getting -- the jittes are there for life that I need -- and 3 with only 12 critters, isn't that a bit much? (not like I have say 16 critters, where 3 would make perfect sense)

True -- the whole flavor of the deck has gone from Aggro to striking it rich with a quick combo .. So the key is to get the combo out fast.

The only things I can think about are "controlling" type cards that burn would use

1) Orb -- can only untap 1 land (works well with Stompy decks)
2) Mass creature kill -- various spells are out there
3) Land kill -- earthquake
4) Reset Cards -- like Jokulhaups or Jester Cap -- and some such
5) "Damage" style -- Ankh or Pyroclasm

So thereare ways to do field control -- I would say they would be seen in T1.5 instead of a T1 deck.

a burn spell doing 20? -- reminds me of Channel/Fireball --

lay down Forest, Mox, Lotus, Mana it up -- take away ones life for mana -- cast spells -- bam -- 1 opponent cursing you under thier breath for not having a counterspell in hand .. lol

Another famous archtype long ago sent to the T1.5 leagues, yet can still make an impact on T1 tournies ... especially with changes that have come out to help the old Sui decks.

The one thing that frustrastes me so much about Sui is the lack of dealing with artifacts/enchantments -- and that consistent damage one takes giving one a fast clock. So Sui is strictly an Aggro deck -- with some distinct control elements.

Now Black is long known to have Disruption, Graveyard Manipulation, Land Destruction, Creature kill -- and now with Sacred Sacrament -- it adds Library Milling to it's style. But, black decks though solid -- have ALWAYS had a bad reputation vrs Combo decks -- and nobody I know uses Lich/Mirror Universe anymore (although it was an awesome combo)

So ... Vampire Hexmage & Dark Depths which has been heavily abused -- is the new combo.

Meta -- locally -- Aggro/Control (BW, UW, Elves, MBC, Mono-U, etc ..). Artifacts are rare, no power to be seen as most folks are T1.X/T2 players.

My current deck

1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland - standard in any T1 deck
11 Swamp - seems smooth (no mulligans) -- but I might need a bit more mana it seems.

1 Lotus Petal
1 Jet Mox
1 Black Lotus
2 Umizawa's Jitte -- With all the self-damage, these are critical for the life gain ..

*4 Tutors -- I felt with 12 critters and the combo here -- I needed the 4 tutors for definate silver bullets to take care of issues.
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tuttor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal

*Standard Black Deck Win conditions ..
1 Yawgs Will
1 Necropotence
1 Tendril

4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize

4 Diabolic Edict
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sacred Sacrament - the Milling card -- It hits combo decks and control decks hard - needs more playtesting.

4 Vampire Hexmage - The 1st half of the combo.
4 Gatekeepers of Malakir - needed for critter saccing. Works with the Edicts.
4 Dark COnfidant - Draw engine -- so with Necro, it makes for 5 cards as a draw engine.

What I need to figure out is where to add my 2 Dark Depths to form the combo...and so what to take out for those 2 cards.

For those who haven't seen it -- it goes something like this

Turn 1 -- Lay down Mox/Petal or Lotus -- Black Mana -- Lay down Vampire Hexmage, Lay down Dark Depths with 10 counters. Sac Hexmage to take off the counters -- DD becomes a 20/20 flying beat stick from hell -- swing for 20.

Now that's what I call a viable T1 1 turn kill ..

---

So now as far as Sacrament -- the new Milling aspect seems quite good -- but VERY expensive mana wise. It has a kicker of 7 .. ouch, but it's worth it if you can pull it off.  Normally it mills 3 cards, but with the kicker, it mills 15 cards ....But with the cost of the kicker -- I am not sure (yet) if the card is worth it. SOme swear by it -- but I wanna playtest it more and see how it does.

True ... but one needs a bolt to hit Tez to bring him down to 1, and then the Mogg can attack n sac for that last point .. but yeah, Mogg is a wonderous little critter...

Yeah I have used Moggs in my Sligh deck for years!!! -- that 1pt sac damage is great for killing those annoying critters -- say a confidant .. lol

But sligh needs more of a punch -- which is why the Grim Lavamancers are so useful for thier 2 damage. Also Moggs are generally being replaced by Goblin Guides  2/2 with HASTE .. awesome ability for a 1cc critter. There are discussions around the internet where people are loathe to change out thier Moggs, so some swear by them, others are changing over -- so the debate still rages on the Moggs.

Skullclamps in Sligh? -- hmm, not sure -- since SLigh/Burn is essentially a race and you NEED that win by turn 4 or 5 on the outside. I can see Clamp slowing down a Sligh deck essentially ..

For Black Sui -- people swear by using Skullclamps with Bloodghasts -- but that's Sui (another favorite archtype of mine)

Yeah -- well, I'll see -- since Dreamers has T1.5 tourneys every week , and it's sister store (Monster Den) has a T1 tourney on the 30th that giving out a peice of P9 ..

I might as well play my Sligh deck I updated and have been playtesting like crazy -- and see how I do .. (so I have 2 weeks basically to decide on mono-red or a splash .. lol). I'll most likely get my a$$ kicked, but hey -- I figure the experience will be fun.

Hmm -- shattering spree looks like shatterstorm -- hmmm -- ok, cool.

Magus wrks well when non-basics are common. The meta I am around is more more mono-colored area. For regular T1, yeah, Magus would rock ..

For my mono-red angle (although -- splashes do look good) ... Looked at the 16 Mnt+4 Fetch vs 14 Mnt+4 Fetch.

With my 1cc, 2cc and 0cc (Fireblast, Riftbolt) I had an average of 1cc for the deck -- basically -- it's fast as it should be. So I wanted to see if I could take a risk and go with less land (due to sac by Fireblast).

I would say it runs smoother with the 2 less land* -- since one can run essentially 2 or 3 mana and be fine -- I playtested and got wins with 1 land (due to Riftbolts in opening hand). Since I am running straight Mnts, Wastelands are neutered and "dead cards" -- Fireblast is more critical for timing with less land though. I try and make sure I have 2 lands in hand (so the Kiln Fiends come out and can become my beat sticks for the wins)

Now people will ask -- why do I run with the 2 less land -- I decided on PoP's (so I am not so dependant on Mox Monkeys in case somebody does a combo in turn 1 or 2 and now have a big ass beat stick breathing down my throat.). I am still messing with my last critter slot -- The Keldons looks good, but still tweaking -- just in case.

So .. for my mono-red

14 Mountains
4 Wooded foothills -- Fetchlands

4 Grim Lavamancers -- use these to clear stuff out of yard and take care of critters, Xtra dam
4 Goblin Guides -- 2/2 w/ haste for  , awesomely fast when out early.
4 Gorilla Shaman - Gotta deal with artifacts/moxen, etc
4 Kiln Fiends -- AWESOME when casting bolts early -- easy to make then 7/2 or 10/2 -- these are becoming my main beat-stick.
4 [Something]

4 Lava Spike -- good for fast dam
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast -- devestating when casting this with bolts and a Kiln fiend ready to strike ..
4 Rift Bolts -- I usually let these sit for a free cast the next turn
2 Price of Progress - just in case a combo'd BIG artifact comes out (say from a Tinker combo)

Yeah, I have Pyro's, REB in SB. thx for the heads up on Guerrilla Tactic. Breaking point does look good -- thx.

a splash of white -- Balance, Disenchant, StP's .... hmmm

Ok -- shit - lemme look -- saying that, I'm gonna feel like crap -- and probably laugh my ass off for being so stupid .. dude - ah damn -- your right -- that's just wrong .. (I guess I better remember to read the damn cards next time)

probably another reason to NOT play magic 20 minutes before taking tests .. lol

They are owned by the same folks
http://www.dreamersgames.com/

There is also - Universe Games
http://www.universegames.com
711 Lake Str #103
Minneapolis

Yeah .. I've done that to myself too -- as I play Leylines maindeck with the meta I play against ..

I was at the card shop yesterday -- and just as I was finishing upgrading my Sui deck -- a guy walked in to grab 2 Jace's -- so they are definately popular.

at 2 , he makes a statement alright - being cheap enough to come out early and make an impact. That -12 ability is just evil. No wonder this Jace is an auto-counter if able.

True on all 3 counts.

I like Manamorphose -- spending 1 / and getting those mana back -- essentially it's a free instant to draw a card -- thus card advantage and a "draw" engine .. so the synergy with helping the deck -- and pumping kiln fiends -- yeah.

With Bloodghasts -- try and get some skullclamps -- the synergy and work one can do there makes for some fun stuff.

Thx for the reply ..

PoP & Smash to Smithereens indeed are good. The PoP's require non-basics, and the meta is mostly mono-colored, so fetchlands are instantly used .. Smash to Smithereens require artifacts, not used enough to make it an auto-MD choice.

I should just take out the barb rings and stick to mountains then .. so 16 Mts, 4 Fetchs -- (seems like a lot of Mts for my low mana curve -- I might try 14 Mts + 4 Fetch instead and see if it makes a difference.)

between the UW counter-lock decks, and the UW Fish decks -- Sirrocco might be a fun addition. Those counters are a pain.

A Black splash -- The duress/thoughtseize/blightning idea is cool [4 Fetch, 4 Badlands, 12 Mnt]
A Green splash -- Berserk or Vexing Shusher .. hmmm [4 Fetch, 4 Taiga, 12 Mnt]

The worry I have with splashes are the dual-lands being wasteland targets. And needing a higher mana base -- usually 22 instead of 18-20.

Old enough to have grand-kids ..

But I have played since Beta's and Unlimiteds -- so it has been fun to see the changes over the years

I used to play burn - back in the old Channel/Fireball ....

The thing I see nowadays, is that burn doesn't have steady consistent damage. And top-decking is a major concern.

so cards like Fork, Wheel of Fortune are needed parts in any burn deck still (even though Wheel helps the opponent, and so doesn't give one the card advantage needed to make a real impact). Sure the cards in a burn deck are a lot better than in years past ... Burn just seems to be a regular "splash" in other colors (Green, Blue, Black use burn quick well)

I just see Sligh (or a "burn deck" with critters) making use of steady damage and less of a top-decking concern to be better than Burn nowadays. I have seen plenty of Burn decks using just Fanatics or other 4-of just to bring in some sort of damage or chump blocker.

But to make it viable in T1 -- hmmm -- Card advantage, Buyback burn spells, Disruption -- something major that would make an immediate impact (especially in the early turns)

1) Yeah, I have the 5 (4 wastelands, 1 Strip). Since a lot of the meta is mono-colored, sinkholes are more useful than wastelands..
2) True -- it's non-powered ..
3) I have Spirit Guides, but over the time I've played them, I just haven't really been happy with using them - The idea fot them is good -- just like the ESG (fast mana).
4) Null Rods I took out because of the mox monkeys. Pyros/REB's are SB stuff -- don't have any Thorns: Thx for the ideas there.
5) Ah Damn -- didn't see that on Keldons -- stupid me

Yeah, but the meta here being fairly mono-color and non-powered. I could see the Smash to Smithereens being used. But even then I am depending on artifact use to keep them MD instead of SB. And instead of Mox monkeys, I could use Gob Vandals or Rack n Ruin ... so several choices that could be viable if artifacts were a bigger issue.

Now -- I know Sligh is not considered viable in T1 -- but definately taken seriously in T1.5  .... but I am one of those old dinosaurs who refuses to let a decktype go to the scrapheap .. lol

Metagame concerns:
1) Lots of Blue Bulls**t
2) MBC
3) Elves -- agrro/control
4) BW Control

* Tons of graveyard tweaks; which is why I use Leyline of the Void, or Tormods Crypt ..

Deck

12 Mountains
4 Woodfoothilsl -- Fetchlands
4 Barbarian Rings -- dont like these -- will change to Sol Ring, Ruby Mox, Lotus Petal, Lotus

4 Grim Lavamancers -- use these to clear stuff out of yard and take care of critters, Xtra dam
4 Goblin Guides -- 2/2 w/ haste for  , awesomely fast when out early.
4 Gorilla Shaman - Gotta deal with artifacts/moxen, etc
4 Keldon Marauders - I use thier 1 pt pings for critter removal ..since these 3/3's don't last long usually
4 Kiln Fiends -- AWESOME when casting bolts early -- easy to make then 7/2 or 10/2 -- these are becoming my main beat-stick.

4 Lava Spike -- good for fast dam
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast -- devestating when casting this with bolts and a Kiln fiend ready to strike ..
4 Rift Bolts -- I usually let these sit for a free cast the next turn

Options that I am looking at
1) Price of Progress -- definately looked upon
2) Searing Blaze - not sure here
3) Ankh of Mishra
3) Cursed Scroll - seems outdated at this point
4) Tweaking mana base -- mana curve seems okay -- but 20 mana should be solid

Pros
1) Fast burn damage without a "combo" at all in the deck
2) good critter removal and steady critter damage
3) Artifact removal
4) Good Mana curve

Unknowns
1) Card advantage (top-decking, no draw engine)
2) Disruption (either force opponents to change/alter plans)

Playtesting (so far)

MBC, Black Sui -- even with the new Vampire Hexmage/Dark Depths combo, I am having few problems at all.
Berserk Stompy - going 50/50 due to the sick speed of that deck
FCG/Goblins - when Foodchains goes off, not much I can do, otherwise pretty good matchups
Belcher - 50/50 but when the combo goes off, it gets ugly.

I will try and playtest against some BBS, BW Control, etc so see how I do vs control -- I seem to do well vs Aggro, but Combo seems to mess me up if done fast/early. Control, I dunno yet -- but one can sideboard for most control.

nice. I know one guy who plays with 3 Orbs in his Stompy deck already, he plays 8 Forest Stompy with a bunch of 1cc critters...

so Orbs and RootMaze... cool

Ok, cool..  figured that MBC bites competitively, but hey, my decks are fun playing casual..

I have Nantuko Shades, and Sinkholes in my Sui deck

so go

-2 Petrified Field
-4 Racks
-4 Megrim

+2 Crucible of Worlds
+4 Nantuko Shade
+4 Sinkholes

hmm, ok, so...to flatten out the mana curve a bit...

Hand D (13 sources)

Hymns
Duress
Mind Twist
Nezumi

Land D (9 sources)

Wastelands
Strip
Sinkholes

It looks like a modified T1 Sui deck only having the addition of the Nezumi Shortfangs to give Discard/Rack ability...I would probably have Negators in the SB instead of reavers/masticore/warbeat

I would think that even with Nether Void, it won't make too much difference.

I was thinking about 2 ways to make a deck, I am still not sure if it even CAN be competitive or just stays Casual (like Sui)

Decklist

Land. I forgot to get Cabbal Coffers...I need 2

15 Swamps
4 Wastelands
1 Strip
2 Lake of the Dead
2 Petrified Fields (to retreive stripped/sac'd lands)

Mana Acceleration - might need some more.. suggestions?

1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Dark Rituals

Tools

1 Necro
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vamp Tutor
1 Yawgs Win
4 Diabolic Edicts - This slot is a certain Sideboard slot to fit depending...

Discard stuff

4 Rack
4 Hymns
4 Duress
4 Megrim - works well with Racks
1 Mind Twist

Creatures

4 Hippies - the original
4 Nezumi Shortfang - nice effects and cheap cost

-----------

Things looking at This needs to go off almost on turn 1 or 2 at most, since most decks will empty thier hands that quick...like Sligh, Sui, Goblins, TnT, Combo Decks, etc.

So this deck will slow a speedy deck down (hopefully) with the Megrims/Racks/Nezumi's out

I figure I might need a bit more Mana Accel, and am still not sure on my land choices

As far as cards..I have looked over..

Noetic Scales.. looked subpar
Skull Fracture
Blackmail
Persecute
Skeletal Scrying - card advantage
Teferi's Puzzle Box - might be interesting
Mirari - nice but too expensive
Ensnaring Bridge - prob SB since I am critter weak..

Underworld Dreams - looks good, especialy with next 2 cards
Anvil of Bogardan
Memory Jar

OR, If I want to go Blue-Black (Bruise) I would be adding in..

Urza's Guilt
Recoil
Breathstealers Crypt
Back to Basics
Gush

But one thing I was hoping to get are some cards which this deck needs badly

1) Card Advantage: which is critical in T1

Now: I doubt it could do well in a typical T1 tourney, but in Casual it might do good..

If I may, can you guys look it over and let me know how the deck looks, and what would ya change in it...

hmmm, looking at ..

4 basking rootwalla
4 wild mongrel
4 Hidden Gibbons

for G, they are 1/1's, but can grow. And the gibbons are quick 4/4 beatstick, since most decks have instants...

so I was seriously considering taking out the Rogue Elephants & Wild Dogs

Pendlehaven and Rootmaze huh?, ok, cool. Your right, I need to have them have thier stuff tapped, so as to slow them down, and shut down Combos..

Would Lotus Petal be of use in this deck, since it's a sac for 0cc?

cool, can ya post it...

I figure that Stompy will be outclassed by RG Beatdown, but hey...