Let's write down something about weenie again

As trinisphere leaved us, there is more chance to actually play a game, without doing 3 "land-pass" every match.

My list now is:

4 flooded
1 windswept
5 plains
1 island
2 tundra
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
2 metaslots [kor haven, karakas, maze of ith, boseiju..]

Same stuff as usual. Kicked the 2 boost, never found them useful. A critter on turn 1 is good, but it could be easily FoWwed up leaving our hand empty :/

4 javelineers
3 wayfarer
4 mage
4 samurai
3 kami of ancient law
3 true believer
2 ninja of the deep hours

Some new stuff: no need to face red based decks here in italy [and sideboard help us with this matter], so our heroish soldiers and priest left da team. Believer is nice to be vialed instant against a Gift or a Duress, or even a storm spell ^^
Kami is good vs Oath and W-gorger; still a grizzly, still beating.
Gilded drake was like a win-more against Oath: never had problems. I am trying the ninjas atm, they are broken against control. Incounterable and quite impossible to get rid of with Enginereed Explosives [our worst threat :/].
Mages, Javelineers and Samurais are the soul of the deck. I do love wayfarer, but I understand it's a completely personal choice [on the other hand mage is not, if you want to be competitive ^^].

4 vial
4 CotV
3 StP
1 Rushing River
3 Brainstorm
3 Standstill

Vial is the engine, starting the game with both it and chalice is insane. We dont play rod, so we need to stop artifact booster. Then we could fill the board with mages and believers, beating strong against combo/control. I know having more copies of this spells is redundant, but it's the price to pay for budget decks.
CotV: to be set blind at 0.

3 stp? u could take me for fool, but river is still a removal against oath/colossus/titan, and could help us against opponent's CotVs. Kickering it is synergical with wayfarer too =)

Brainstorm: the right critter at the right time. And the nicest way to throw away useless vials by fetching after.
Standstill: nice way to fill our hand. With Ninja, simply HUGE.

My SB at the moment:

2 phyrexian furnace [tog, dragon, welder, slavery - worst than tormod's but works with chalice]
2 absolute law [something against goblin, sligh..always useful]
2 sword of f/i [like above]
1 enlightened tutor [i am trying this configuration: siding in the 2 cards i need plus the tutor, so i've virtually got 3 copies of each card, saving some sb slots].
1 seal of cleansing [tutorable]
2 disenchant [we do play white right?]
3 rootwater thief [t1 is the format of restriced cards - nice way to take out tendril, colossus, atog, yagwin, titan, blessing..]
1 true believer [filling MD 4x set]
1 kami of ancient law [^^]

Why I do play creatures in SB? cause I dont want to be in creature-screw! And vial helps to make our threats BIG.

And now, waiting for Kataki to be legal in Vintage, so we can play another fantastic critter!

@mfw: I played the TaxWeenie for a while, and I moved to the list I posted before.

I will answer u on every point

Pro-color Creatures
I do play Soltari [the finisher, and protection is exta bonus]. I loved Knights in aggro environment, but it's that vanilla against combo. Meddling mage fits better, and we cannot play 30 critters, u know.

Empyrial Armor / Plate
there are many ways to get rid of it. the first is to win before [and believe me, combo has got many chances, and so does tog, cause it has not to win counterwars against weenie]. Remember that you've got to cast a cc3 spell under ws.dec prison [wire, smokestack, chalice..]. I've never felt that "easy" against that "mud".
Being fast is cool, but we aren't that fast actually, so imo the point is to get some lock on the board, and not to beat with a fattie on turn 3 [cool against goblin ]. It's the thing I miss more from Tax build anyway.

Land Tax
If i play blue, i need it FAST. it means duals and fetchlands. So tax won't fit anymore [and believe me, fetching for land every turn is SO boring, I made it for months :/]. I do play wastelands and manlands, so when I draw land I am [quite] always happy.

no Null Rod?
i do play chalice against spoilers [even cheaper to cast ^^]. rod is the best denial card in type1 possibly, but we can't stop our vials. they are our chance under trinisphere, they make bounce effects on mages quite useless, they hose control and oath [the gilded trick does always work ].
I would play fish U/x if I was meant to attack opponent's mana base strongly. But I love weenies, so no way =)


True Believer - Tired of Duress? Tired of Diabolic Edict? Tired of Mindslaver? Tired of Tendrils of Agony? Tired of Dragon effects?
-duress: havent got that many spells [and could always hide them thru brainstorm, wow I feel that pro ];
-edict: haven't got to face many edicts here, anyway it's not a prob imo, there are plenty of removals I fear more [explosives, keg..];
-slaver: wouldn't it be funny to let someone else play our cool deck? lol, it's a problem, but I think we can face it with mages and sb hate. difficult matchup, haven't got much faith in my critters;
-dragons: no prob actually. samurai, witness, mage, stp, strip-effects, seal of cleansing..if he doesnt set up the combo by turn 2 or so we've got all the chances to win. anyway beliver would be an extra tool.
-tendrils: uhm..it doesn't lose from extract or stifle, neither it does from believer! it stops gifts ungiven, but the tendrils player has got all the time to search for a bounce, use it, and start the storm count. u can win a game out of 10 [personal experience], but believer doesnt solve our problem.

Kami of Ancient Law vs. Devout Witness vs. Whipcorder vs. a "new" idea?

if only the kami would have been a couple of words longer.."target enchantment or artifact" [well actually in the reverse order ]. I see it useful against oath only, and don't even that much. Whipcorder is better, but the bolas guys would like to let the ramosian fellas join..

Anyway keep in mind that there is always a cc2-drop free for metagamizing. it could be soltari, or knight, or corder, or believer

the spellshaper guy is cool, but a bit overcosted imo :/

Isochron Scepter
SLOW. haven't got all that mana, even if abeyance or disenchant on this tool would be awesome. imo, just a way to waste a card [or 2 actually] and a turn. if you've got 4 open mana sources to cast and use, you are not playing type1

Weathered Wayfarer
the point is: is it better to fetch 3 plains or to get a strip mine? think about using it under standstill, searching for a manland, or vs oath/fattie.dec, getting that maze of ith u run in monocopy =)
it's mana intensive I know..not everybody plays it, so i understand if you disagree with me Remember that I was a TaxGuy too [and I still am with friends eheheheh].

Chalice of the Void
ever thought to cast it for ZERO? it could be useful against storm.dec if played with 1 counter [bye rituals], but it's difficult to get.

Karakas vs. Maze of Ith
run one of each SB and fetch them thru wayfarer kidding, anyway they are interesting tools. they've both got the nasty ability to fill you opening hand, usually forcing u to take a mulligan :/

Gilded Drake
i love this critter =) obviously, i dont trade it for a jackal pup, i prefer akroma or welder better
it's a metachoice, it's not the base of the deck however.

That's all. Hope I haven't forgotten anything

Bye,

Diego

That's the point imo. Totally agree with bebe's thoughts, it's hard to pretend this deck to be *that* strong, it's only critters and some tools actually. I would not bring this one if I think I'm gonna face only tps, cause I know it's an hard matter, and building up a strong-hate sb is not a right choice imo: it would mean being weak against other MUs, without leaving you definitely sure to have nice results against combo.

This is not a deck that develops its own gameplan, it works around opponent's decisions, so the point it's all about metagamizing; think u gonna see only Dragons? Be happy, you've got all the chances to beat them, cause if they're not able to set up the combo by turn 2 or so, you will probably have dropped some strong lock [samurai dropped thru vial in resp to some animate effect is quite funny ehehe]. Remember that not everyone will imagine that you are bringing Weenie, and possibly nobody will think about the tech choices you've made

@Norm4eva: Samurai is strong, but it's not Planar Void exactly =) It does stop only Lotus and some fetch recursions thru Will, but tps does not play any other permanent threat. Believer is better [stops GiftsUngiven too], but I think samurai fits best in the deck.

i am happy to see that the decks are quite close - it means that I am not that fool =)

brainstorm usefulness is so clear...living for topdeck no more!

i think seals/disenchant MD are always helpful, so I think i am gonna search some slot for them.

i know the point is all in metagamizing, so i dont pretend to say "my-list-beats-all-other" ehehehehe =D

the only thing I am not agree with is the number of creatures: i never go off 20, even if in a spoilered version I played exactly 18 [walk is the best card u can ask from you deck imo].

Rule of law is slow for unsp deck [it's a miracle i own tundras!] IMO, and even gettin a turn or 2 isnt that good [even if it works so good with vial], so i try to get into other MU deeper. anyway, there is plenty of time to test

hope to get nice results from uWW

Hi everybody,

it's a bit of time I am reading this 3d, and I would like to share with you my italian Weenie experience.
I noticed very interesting ideas in this topic, first of all the VialStill engine, so I decided to test it.

First of all, I know and admit that there are *better* decks, even in budget field [fish u/x, or Oath itself, rid out of Drains],  but I do like my critters, and I want to keep the weenie spirit alive in my playstyle.

Let's go thru the decklist.

    Mana base [22]
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Windswept Heath
    2 Tundra
    5 Plains
    1 Island
    1 Karakas
    2 Mishra's Factory
    3 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Chrome Mox
    1 Lotus Petal

-Quite solid basic-lands base [even mono island], many fetchlands [to get the best from Brainstorm and Wayfarer], and only two duals, so we aren't target of opponent's wastelands that often;
-Four strip-effects to get a decent denial action; I do not play 5 cause I search them with the Wayfarer, and I need as much colored mana as it is possible;
-Two Mishras, best manland ever. Under Standstill, possibly the best drop. I think playing more is redundant, we have got many critters, and it is a colorless source;
-Karakas: not necessary, only a tool against Oath/Karn. Could be a Plains;
-Two boosts to have a nice start. They help to keep that GodHand not provided with coloured lands =).

    Critters [23]
    4 Icatian Javelineers
    3 Weathered Wayfarer
    4 Meddling Mage
    4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
    4 Soltari Priest
    2 Devout Witness
    2 Gilded Drake

-I do love javelineers. They kill welder, lavamancer, fish creatures, and they are still a 2/1 blocker actually. And, last but not least, it solves many sideboard problems [1st card I side out usually];
-Wayfarer is the engine: it searches many tools, and it fits one-counter charged Vial. I think playing 4 is too much, cause one in play is more than enough, and it isn't that effective when it's time to beat;
-Meddling Mage: strong. A 2/2 drop for 2, with a cool ability. Effective against combo [dropped thru vial], and many other decks: try to name Cunning wish, Mana drain, Dark Ritual, Smokestack..possibly the best creature in the deck. Beware of reb!;
-Samurai of the pale curtain: quite effective in combat phase, it has a very nice effect in the game however: no crucible recursion, no worldgorger combo, no fuel to lavamancer, no Skullclamp draw. Still a 2/2 able to kill mishra without being harmed;
-Soltari Priest: the kill condition, it beats strong without fear of being blocked, and protection gives extra quality;

Then, 4 variable slots:
-Devout Witness has got a nice ability against many decks [anyone said Chalice of the Void?]. The problem is that it's a slow drop, and it could be very late when we can actually use it, as it is so easy to get rid of it; anyway, it is so interesting that I cannot let it out of the build at least for now;
-Gilded Drake is another tool against Oath and some hard-to-remove fattie out there if I lack of StP [Colossus, Sundering Titan, even a DoJ angel token, who knows], or even a Goblin Welder!
Could be easily changed with Silver Knight if we think we are gonna face many red based aggro deck, or even Isamaru, to drop it thru 1-counter vial.

    Draw, Tools, Removals [15]
    4 AEther Vial
    3 Standstill
    3 Brainstorm
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Swords to Plowshares

-Aether Vial is so strong that forced me to get Null rod out of the deck; it is as effective against aggro decks [think about the tricks you can make in combat phase, dropping a samurai or a drake] as it is against control strategy. It is quite fragile, but I do play well even without. Remember that it's useful only if played in the very first turns;
-Standstill: we do easily get board advantage, so standstill is what best fits; it works wonderful with vial, mandlands, strips and creatures abilities;
-Brainstorm: many shuffle effects make it a strong tool, helping us to get the best card in every moment, playing 4 copies of each;
-Enlightened Tutor: helps finding many stuff, mostly from sided-in cards. Not that necessary however;
-Swords to Plowshares: best white card ever after Balance [that I don't play for obvious reasons :)]. Effective against any kind of creatures, no matter if indestructible or not :P. Side them out against tps only [my worst matchup indeed, but u know..].

Some sideboard ideas:
-Chalice of the void is necessary against spoilers, and could be a desperate resource [set at 1] against some decks;
-Serenity, Seal of Cleansing in some number. A massive artifact removal, and a necessary tool [we don't play artifact hate md :/]. Not less than 3 & 3;
-Dust to dust: it's not the white Rack and ruin actually. Even if it does very well against welder, try to cast it under Tangle wire action :/ Too slow imo;
-Annul: a first-turn answer to Trinisphere, it is effective against oath too [as a must-counter, so we have more chances to resolve a StP or a meddling mage];
-Bounce effects [Chain of Vapor, Rushing river, Echoing truth]: always helpful, against oath or worldgorger, they still help to make the last attack with our critters, leaving the board free from blockers; they do work well with mage too [naming what you just bounced =)];
-In the eye of chaos: *strong*, but difficult to cast. It does not deal with our cards [paying 1W for StP is still cheap imo :)], but don't think a control will ever let you resolve this threat, even if this would mean leaving their hand empty. Finding a wishable answer to this [cunning+disenchant/naturalize/bounce] could cost up to 10 mana, not bad =);
-Blue elemental blast: an anti-aggro card. I think I would not play this build against a mostly sligh and zoo metagame, but it still takes out lavamancer, welder and Dragon^^;
-Maze of Ith: a nonmana-producing land, hope to see it only thru wayfarer. Strong against oath, colossus, tog, curiosity..beware of wastelands and Ice;
-Crucible of Worlds: we play strips and manlands, and it works so good with standstill. Would make a Sol ring MD interesting, but remember of Samurai too!;
-Parallax Wave: there is always some aggro deck out there, and a temporary Wrath of God is always helpful. Tutorable too.

Cards that did not fit:
-Savannah lions, Isamaru: vanilla drops, we need creatures that are strong mostly out of combat phase;
-Whipcorder: love them, but they need some Ramosian friends. No slots :/
-Land Tax engine: I do play TaxWeenie too, but if we want to play blue, we need it FAST, not after tax triggers and all;
-Empyrial armor: the card I miss more from Tax build, the biggest tool we have to kill fast. Obviosly it does not have much sense in this version;
-Abolish: strong against chalice of the void, we haven't got plains enough to feed it :/;
-Null rod: we play vial, so no slots for it. Could be tried in SB, but I think vial is strong [and funnier, but that's not strategy :P];
-Cursed totem: effective against tog and welder [and many sligh critters], it does freeze our game too;
-Rule of Law: SLOW. And tps feels not like saying "my dear, do as u want";
-Vengeful Dreams: with tax, much *better* than WoG. No tax, no redundant plains to discard, no dreams. Easy.
-Exalted angel: would love to play a couple, but they are difficult to cast, and to defend, even if one single attack could be enough imho :)
-Kami of ancient law, Monk realist: I don't see any enchantment threat, out of Oath, that would recomend me to play them MD [and I dont like to play creatures SB];
-True Believer: tps bounces it fast, and I don't fear duress [still have brainstorm, and I dont feel like losing a noncreature card is that bad in this deck :)];
-Army of Allah, Crusade: no slots, even if I miss a decent finisher that much. Walk in spoilered version is great, but u know..^^
-Orim's Chant, Abeyance: we are a bit more control than usual, but I think that these cards aren't in the spirit of the deck. Slow, and not quite effective. Go play Parfait if you want :)

Doing bad against tps, or ws-trinisphere fast starts? That's life! Remember you are still playing a 2/2-based deck, and u gotta know that creature based decks have got many limits :/ Try to leave your opponent breathless dropping that mage naming dark ritual in response to y-will, or naming one of the cards he has just revealed with metalworker! [yep, he does still reach to drop some cause it's a mana abilty, u know :)].

If you want to have fun without spending all your money in that set of bazaars, that's the deck to play imo. Creatures, removals, nice draw engine..and u can still say "hey, I do play weenie!".