Could Sparkmage Apprentice be a new kill spell? In addition to taking down welders, when he's out when comboing off it means game.

Oh. Okay, thanks Mark, I see it now.

THANK YOU ANUISEN! Wow, I didn't think a 2nd turn kill was possible with goblins! The build you posted is strictly better than mine, and I'm trying to figure out analytically the difference between your deck and mine was. It'll probably take me a good 3 years.

I've been doing alot of testing with this deck recently, and I've been figuring out all the mini combos in the deck, like 1st lackey 2nd turn recruiter and Ringleader. I've also ditched the 2 ESG's for Brightstone Ritual. They're great. They're usually dark ritals for red, but even when they produce just RR, it makes a huge difference. It's the difference between a warchief on the 3rd turn or a warchief and 2 piledrivers on the 3rd turn. I really don't find myself pitching ESG's anyway.

Thoughts?

B-Tings: This deck is by far, no means better than Meandeck Tendrils. But this deck has an amazing ability of turning crap cards into great cards, and turning great cards into monstrosities. Just take a look at Cabal Therapy. For 1 black mana, you get a little less than a Duress, and then you get another activation for free, and you get to draw 2 more cards if you just pay 1 colorless. A single Cabal Therapy can act as a Mind Twist under these conditions.

And that's just one example. We can use tutoring that Meandeck Tendrils can't even touch along the lines of Diabolic Intent. The cardpool available to this deck is neverending, which gives us far more flexibility in terms of kill and disruption.

While Kobold Klamp isn't a titan like Meandeck Tendrils is, iit's also just a whole lotta fun to play. It's just so damn fun doing crap that you're not even sure will win you the game, or do anything, and just pulling off last minute Wills for a storm count of 23. It's beautiful.

To the posters: CABAL FREAKIN' THERAPY! You can clamp your ornithopters without having a single mana to spare while still kicking the crap out of your opponents hand, PLUS it's 2 spells to your spell count. This deck I believe can't survive without it, it's that crucial. If your results are different than mine, I'll be damned, but I'll stand behind Cabal Therapy all the way.

dend51: I know how to do it, I just don't see how it's possible to do it when comboing off.

Moxlotus: In your build, how often does that scenerio work?

What do you guys think of these cards:
Goblin Goon
Goblin Vandal
Mogg Fanatic
Fastbond

I think more 1 drops are a good idea.

I tested out Kiki. It works like a charm in this deck. Double a piledriver, double a seige gang, double a lackey, double anthing you want. With all the CIP effects this deck has it's amazing.

I decided to cut the 2 Ancient Tombs. The mana base is rocky enough without adding colorless lands that mana burn me. I need red mana more than anything, so when I use it I get 2 damage PLUS the other 1 colorless mana I didn't use. I like my build a whole lot better, it consistently wins on turn 4, combo on turn 3. Ringleaders are a whole lot more accessible now. I don't know why, but  I can now hardcast Ringleaders.

I cut the Forest because people here don't play wastelands. Plus I found that it tripped me up too much.

Fling sounds like a decent idea. I'll check it out.

I read the primer and I'm interested about the alt kill condition, the Prospector/Seige-Gang/Sharpshooter kill. The primer made it sound like you can do that off a Food Chain combo. I don't see how, all four ringleaders get you a total of 16 goblins, plus you have to sac the 4 ringleaders for mana. Someone explain?

And now an updated list:

Lands:
6 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothils

Acceleration:
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal

Gobs:
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Recruiter
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Lackey

Da Chain.
4 Food Chain

Just an afterthought: Does Goblin Goon have a place in this deck? I don't see it ever failing to attack, seeing as we flood creatures like diaherrah.

I forgot to update the decklist for when I put in the lackeys, so there it is. Sorry 'bout that, you guys were giving advice on cards I already had taken out. My bad. I KNOW this deck has giant holes in it, here's a few cards that I'm having problems with:

Goblin Matron (When I don't have food chain out, it's a dead card)
Ancient Tomb (Just never seems to get me the right amount/color of mana, but great for comboing off)
Goblin Ringleader (Previously adressed)
Elvish Spirit Guide (Combined with the 5 strip lands, that's one screwy mana base)

Oh and by the way, thank you to whoever suggested 1x Forest. Brilliant idea vs Wastelands.

THANK YOU! Wow, I knew Lackey was great, but I wouldn't expect 2nd turn Siege gang + Piledriver. Thanks so freakin' much, the deck is much better and far more reliable now.

I kinda got a seperate issue though. When I'm not comboing off, Ringleader is a kinda dead card. I usually don't have the mana for it. How do you guys usually play Ringleader, by hardcasting it for all 4? Play it off a Lackey? I don't know, Seething Song? My deck's mana base still needs work.

Also, is it just me or is goblin matron kinda blech?

Can it be?! A budget deck that can actually be good in type one?! Erm, well...Not mine. Some suggestions?

Goblins:
4 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Gempalim Incinerators
2 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Recruiter
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Lackey

Mana
3 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Forest
4 Karp Forest

Accelerators:
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Other:
4 Food Chain

I just realized that Lackey was kinda cruicial. What should I take out for it?
Re-edited the decklist to accomodate the lackey and cut out the Karp Forests. I still can't play Ringleader for all it's card advantage due to the mana. What should I do? Test the deck out to see what I mean.

The Consultation works great, thanks. But Culling is a bomb for this deck, I refuse to take it out. Disruption is a HUGE problem, what do you suggest to take out for Cabal Therapy?

Uh, not to be selfish or nothing, but I'd appreciate it if you commented on my deck before you wrote yours up. A big problem on forums like these is that there can be too many people all wanting help, and new decklists are posted too quickly to be analyzed sufficiently. So please, give me some feedback here.

A big problem with my deck is that there's no disruption. Cabal Therapy is absoutely sick in this deck. For B and a creature (Both of these costs are easily payable) you can easily discard anywhere from 2 to 3 cards while still saccing a Skullclamped Walker. This is one of the key gems Kobold Clamp has to offer that TPS can't. What should I take out of my decklist to include for these ass kickers?

I'm trying to include some Divining Tops, but I have no idea what to take out, everything's so crucial here.

Can you also help me with a 5 proxy tourney? What should I proxy, what should I swap for those cards?

Mana Base
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 ESG
4 Bayou
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

Mana Acceleration/Fixers
3 Dark Ritual
4 Culling the Week
1 Songs of the Damned
1 Sol Ring
3 Land Grant

Clamp Food
4 Ornithopter
4 Walker
12 Kobolds

Engines
4 Glimpse
4 Skullclamp

Tutors
3 Diabolic Intent
1 Demonic Tutor

Restricted Goodness:
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Kill:
2 Tendrils of Aaaaarg

Some issues I've been having problems with:

Its consistancy: When going off it will crap out because I can't find that free black mana source to pay for the 2x Dark Rituals/Cullings I have in my hand. Lotus Petal has helped ENORMOUSLY, so much that if you Extracted it deck would have problems. Chrome Mox doesn't get the same recognition because every card in this deck is important. I like the idea of Fastbond/Mox Diamond but I dont' know what to take out. ESG I think is the card to name here.

Its lack of disruption: It has no disruption. At all. Cabal Therapy looks like a bomb for this deck, but I don't know what to take out.

Its inability to find an engine: You have to mulligan your ass off here, because if you don't get an engine or an easily playable tutor, you're dead. I'd like to know what to add here.

Other thoughts:
A W/G Kobold Clamp would be sick with Glimpse + Scapegoat, but it would lack the accelleration of B/G and I can't think of a good green/white kill. Hunting Pack is eccch.

Thanks.

Well, no. Not instead. The Kobolds are simply a must. Skullclamp + Kobold = 2 cards, where a sphere would be Skullclamp + Sphere + sac outlet= 2 cards + effect. The more cards you include, the harder it is to pull of. They're supplements, really. Every Kobold Clamp build NEEDS the Kobolds.

Can you help me decide what to proxy for a 5 proxy tourney? There's none around here, but hypothetically if I'm in NYC and there SO HAPPENS to be a 5 proxy tourney that day.

Mana Base
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 ESG
4 Bayou
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

Mana Acceleration/Fixers
3 Dark Ritual
4 Culling the Week
1 Songs of the Damned
1 Sol Ring
3 Land Grant

Clamp Food
4 Ornithopter
4 Walker
12 Kobolds

Engines
4 Glimpse
4 Skullclamp

Tutors
3 Diabolic Intent
1 Demonic Tutor

Restricted Goodness:
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Kill:
2 Tendrils of Aaaaarg

Some issues I've been having problems with:

Its consistancy: When going off it will crap out because I can't find that free black mana source to pay for the 2x Dark Rituals/Cullings I have in my hand. Lotus Petal has helped ENORMOUSLY, so much that if you Extracted it deck would have problems. Chrome Mox doesn't get the same recognition because every card in this deck is important. I like the idea of Fastbond/Mox Diamond but I dont' know what to take out. ESG I think is the card to name here.

Its lack of disruption: It has no disruption. At all. Cabal Therapy looks like a bomb for this deck, but I don't know what to take out.

Its inability to find an engine: You have to mulligan your ass off here, because if you don't get an engine or an easily playable tutor, you're dead. I'd like to know what to add here.

Other thoughts:
A W/G Kobold Clamp would be sick with Glimpse + Scapegoat, but it would lack the accelleration of B/G and I can't think of a good green/white kill. Hunting Pack is eccch.

Thanks.

It really depends on what your creature base is. If you run extra creatures and have sac creatures out the wazoo, 4 intents are okay. Otherwise if you're a little tight on the mana base, 1 Demonic Tutor and 3 Intents are optimal.

Woah dude. 16 LANDS??? Make that 4x Dark Ritual and 4X culling of the week and 8 0cc creatures.

Sjored, what are your mana sources? Steelshaper isn't really needed, it only makes sure you can clamp. Usually, I just draw into alot of creatures/acceleration. My list holds up pretty well.

Who suggested Genesis Chamber? I've done some testing with it, and its not a card you'd want to have 4 of in deck. So you'd have to tutor for it. When can you tutor for it? Only when you're finished going off. Finished going off, as in it serves no purpose at that point.

Channel is a bomb in this deck. Unfortunately, I can't use it because my deck is more dependent on Black mana and it's pretty rare when I get GG. I mean Green green, I get good game quite often.

Death Wish just isn't worth it. There's 2 powerful engines in this deck. Unless they get rid of both, you'll be fine.

I'd like to bring up what are the kinds of creatures we can use for Kobold Klamp. This is just a list of creatures which could be used for clamp food and the like

The 12 Kobolds (Why you're even looking here for an explanation is beyond me. If you look here, you're a waste of life)
Shield Sphere (Clamp it, Intent it, extra card advantage)
Phrexian Walker (See Shield Sphere)
Tinder Wall (Acts as a mana accelerant when not clamping, would be an auto include if it produced BB)
Krosan Wayfarer (Sac to drop a Cradle/Academy anytime)
Veteran Explorer (Very similar to Tinder Wall. Only gets basic lands)
Myr Moonvessel (Not a fan but I've seen it done)
Blood pet (Not a fan)
Xantid Swarm (Control Killer)

Did I miss anything?

Chalice for 0 can be gotten around with Glimpses and can be Oxidized away. However a chalice for 1 shuts down A TON. Naturalize may take Oxidize's spot, as it can also take out an Oath, Dance of the Dead/Animate Dead, or any other dangerous artifact/enchantment.

How do land grants work for you? I've done some testing with them, and they haven't been doing much for me. When going off getting 2 land grants off a skullclamp isn't exactly ideal. It's nice not to avoid a land drop, but I'd rather have fastbond when going off. If you've had better luck with Land Grant, please let me know.

edit: I'm dissapointed many times with what I draw, what do you think about including Sensei's Diving Top in the deck? With all the mana that you get between the Rituals and Cullings, playing it, looking, bouncing and replaying shouldn't be aproblem.

See, because I'm stuck in a rogue metagame I don't know much about tourney sb's and stuff. Most of the time I'll combo out before they can play their hate. Nevertheless, I'll do my best.

Xantid Swarm is insurance against some random counterspells and the like. Tormod's crypts never hurt. I'm not sure how the do in a crapass matchup, but hey, it's free.

If you go back to gemstones, Mox Monkey could help vs Chalice. A chalice for 0 is usually what they do here. Multani's Prescence also help here.

Cabal Therapy seems like such a backbreaker card in this deck. If you can't fit it in to the deck, I highly suggest sideboarding it.

What's the metagame like over there? Does it actually pose a hinderance or are you more or less goldfishing when you play them? If it does pose a threat, do tell what kind of threats.

I have no idea what to do vs Trinisphere. Sure its restricted, but people here compensate for that with a load of tutoring. Oxidize doesn't do much, and it's out of Mox Monkey range.

Just a seperate thought. Could Krosan Wayfarer be included to drop Academies/Cradles when going off?

I'm actually thinking of only having 1 or 2 tutors b/c when going off I usually have enough steam to draw into one.

Apoc7k: How does Phyrexian Altar work for you? It's a bit costly, but is it worth it?

I'd highly reccomend that everyone swap one Dark Ritual for a Songs of the Damned. When going off you can tutor for that one copy and add 7 mana while not affecting your early game draws.

Apoc7k: When goldfishing and holding a Myr Moonvessel in hand, ask yourself "Is it possible for me to play this with green mana?" If yes, then Tinder Wall gets the nod. Except for the fact that it is green, it's superior in every way concievable. For G you can get RR, or for 1G you can get 2 cards + RR (With Skullclamp). In most cases when you sac it, it pays for itself or acts as a mana accelerant. With Myr Moonvessel you have to pay 2 (Skullclamp activation) to get 1 colorless and 2 cards.

Although it is a bit risky, have you tried swapping Vampiric Tutor with Demonic Consultation? When going off Vamp does nothing, but DC can get the card you need in a pinch.

Is 4 Tendrils actually needed? My build runs 2x but runs Diabolic Intent, it works out good.

I really don't see how this is any better than Tormod's Crypt. 0cc vs. BB? Creature v. Artifact? Okay, null rod doesn't do it in.

Oh no it don't. Glimpse is a great draw engine, possibly on the same level as Skullclamp. And Multani's Prescence beggs to differ. Chalice for 1 is a different story, and even that can be dealt with. But the real threat to this deck is Trinisphere. How do you people deal with that?

And please if you think the deck sucks, then just don't post in its forum.


Hence the reason why I only run 1. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.

Spoils is god awesome tech, I've used it in Dragon and it's sick. Just as a reassurance, what's the average life loss from a SotV? And are the removed cards worth it?

Your build looks good, but I'd swap out a Dark Ritual for a Songs of the Damned. After a long Kobold clamp chain and with a Diabolic Intent in hand, It's great to tutor for that one Songs and add anywhere from 3 to 15 mana to your mana pool and keep on clamping.

Tendrils is a better kill IMO because its uncounterable by conventional means. I've always seen Black to be the 'You die this turn' color, Red couldn't possibly replace the mana acceleration and all around brokenness that Black offers. Culling, Ritual, Songs of the Damned, WILL!, No Rest for the Wicked (Possibly), Carnival of Souls, etc.

With that in mind, I'm tossing around the idea of a B/W Kobold Klamp deck with Auriok Steelshaper and Steelshaper's Gift to find Skullclamp more easily, It's amazing how little it shows up my deck aaarg.

Edit: I've just done some playtesting with Songs of the Damned. Too damn good. I'd highly suggest to everyone to take out a Dark Ritual and put this in. When going off or in a pinch for mana, you can Diabolic Intent for it and get anywhere from 4-10 mana for B. I wouldn't do more than 2 because you still need Dark Ritual to power you through your first turns.

Shade, sorry I ever doubted you. I tried out the other OCC creatures and they're great. You can clamp one, then feed it to a therapy, Diabolic Intent, or Culling of the Week. It's genius.

I love this deck, its so damn chaotic!

1 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Bayou
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
12 Kobolds
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Skullclamp
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
4 Dark Ritual
4 Culling of the Weak
4 ESG
1 Lotus Petal
4 Diabolic Intent
3 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Land Grant

I want to have a low land count so I can up the Land Grants, they're great. And contrary to popular opinion, Yawgmoth's Will is the backbone of the deck, every Kobold Clamp deck should have one. I'm also debating if I should replace Shield wall with Ornithopter, a minor detail but its bugging the crap out of me. Also, I'm not sure if this deck could benefit from Tolarian Academy/Gaea's Cradle.

It's a great deck and I'm looking to make it better without killing my wallet.

Edit: I'm thinking about ditching Glimpse of Nature. I don't like it too much, it makes me play my creatures all at once, which screws up my storm count if I'm not about to win that turn.

The reason why Cloud of Faeries isn't an automatic inclusion is because it's blue. Kobold Clamp is good as just B/G, blue adds a headache of problems and reformatting the deck. Once you get some blue in there, you HAVE to add 4x Force of Will and Intuitions.

Tinder Wall looks perfect for this deck.

But what about Final Fortune?
What about it? Verbal warning for spam/lack of content. Please go check out the posting rules.

-Jacob

Now, I don't know much about this deck, but I do know this. Anything with a toughness greater than 1 in this deck is a no. You want to take advantage of Skullclamp as soon as possible, and Shield Sphere and the Walker don't provide anything else but an unclampable creature.

The rest is playtesting. If you can get consistant 2nd and 3rd turn kills, then carry on.

I find that this deck really lags in ways that it shouldn't. Sometimes I find myself with a Recruiter, a Food Chain, and mana but the only thing that's stopping me from going off is getting that first Ringleader. The deck could use some cantrips or something to get that first card.

These are the cards that come to mind:

Final Fortune: Red's yet-to-be-broken Time Walk. If you can't win with the combo going, maybe you shouldn't be playing FCG.

Spark Spray: Cycles or takes care of Welders.


That's it so far.

Oh, Gempalm Incinerator and Forgotten Cave IMO don't make the cut because they screw with the mana too often.

Fish can only take on T1 powered decks. Null Rod does nothing against rogue decks. No pun intended. But if you play against powered Dragon and 'Tog, then sure.

I'm trying out Kobold Clamp right now. From what I've heard it's great and really cheap to make. It's a bit tough knowing how to utilize it, but that's nothing that a few hours of MWS couldn't fix.

I've also made a grave mistake in making budget Dragon. Just don't. It sucks, and can't compete with anything T1.

Many decks out there lose their umph when they get bugetified. These are the only decks that perform as well without the P-9.

Kobold Clamp
Salvager
FCG!!!

FCG is an absolute bomb. It's a mean goblin deck that's ridiculously quick, whether it gets the combo or not.

@ Cryolyte: It actally munches on for 1. The X only means another number when its being cast, not actually in play.

Also, many times I don't find that Lackey helps me combo out so much. Many times I'm dropping a turn 2 warchief. Which is fine, but if at times I'm going to ditch the combo, I'd like a bit more umph with Lackey. Any suggestions?