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1  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Underworld Dreams picture and Dante's Inferno on: October 08, 2005, 12:31:48 pm
I'm reading the translated version by Henry Francis Cary.  This is about as much as I know about the pic of Underworld Dreams being relevant to The Inferno.  I know it's Dante and Virgil in the pic, and that's about it.  I don't know where they are, I could guess that they're at the river near the gate of hell, but I don't know for sure.  I'm guessing though it's just in general and it just relates to the book and story of The Inferno.  Thanks for your opinions and help guys.
Denz
2  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Underworld Dreams picture and Dante's Inferno on: October 06, 2005, 10:33:08 pm
Hey everybody,
I've been told once before that the original pic from Underworld Dreams is a scene right out of Dante's Inferno.  I have just recently picked the book up, sadly I've never read it, and I'm interested in knowing where in the book the picture relates to.  Any information would be helpful. 
Thanks in advance,
Denz
3  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Enchantment Cycle on: July 03, 2005, 04:56:08 pm
Now I'm a fan of oldschool cards like Crusade and Bad Moon, but I always wanted to see enchantments for the other collors. 

White

Crusade {W}{W}  Rare
Enchantment

All White creatures get +1/+1


Blue

Sunken City {U}{U}  Rare
Enchantment

All Blue creatures get +1/+1
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Sunken City unless you pay {U}{U}.


Black

Bad Moon {1}{B}  Rare
Enchantment

All Black creatures get +1/+1


Red

Molten Fury {R}{R}  Rare
Enchantment

All Red creatures get +1/+1


Green

Nature's Chosen {G}{G}  Rare
Enchantment

All Green creatures get +1/+1


Tell me what you think, the names can still be discussed, but I'd like casting cost and text to stay as is.
I'm still living in the mid to early 90's, these are just ideas I'm throwing out there for cards that I feel should have been created back in the days of 4th edition.
Denz
4  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Serious Discussion: Is Magic Dying? on: June 06, 2005, 11:18:46 pm
Personally, I have been playing since the dawn of 4th edition.  I'm an oldschool player who builds fun decks to fool around and have a good time playing with my friends.  I remember when 4th came out and my friends would sit down and have a war, quite litterally with the amount of creatures on the board. 
In today's environment Agro is dead.  It's all Combo or Control. 
I remember when Combo decks were built around cards like Underworld Dreams, Maraxus of Keld, Ank of Mishra, or combos like Raging Goblin and Hatred.  I remember when people had to actually think about cards and card combinations to find a way to win.
In today's environment there are cards that are combos in themselves, Yawg Will for example.
I remember when people built original and clever decks that had interesting themes to them, like the 7 deadly plagues of Egypt, or a Dracula's Curse deck.
In today's environment, it's all about the Net decks, and who has the most money to buy the best cards.  There is no thought process involved, play a deck that's based around a combo, spend enough money to build it, and win. 
I remember going to the best tournament ever.  It was a story line based tournament.  Every last player's deck had to have some sort of storyline behind it.  If the deck composed of two opposite colors it wasn't allowed, because those colors were considered at war.  Others were built around one creature as their general like Gaea's Leige and he was leading his troops against the hordes of the Goblins.  The winners of each match up continued the storyline for the entire tournament, and each win and loss was recorded as a story.
In today's environment, tournaments are all about money, playing to win, and aquireing "power".  Also, it's about who's first turn combo kill can go off first, TPS, FCG, Charbelcher....
I remember when Tempest came out and players complained about abilities such as Shadow and Phasing.  New abilities were really frowned upon by the 4th edition crowd. 
In today's envorionment there are so many new abilities that come out with each set.  Each block now has at least 4 or 5 new abilities or card types.  Just look at Kamigawa Block:  Channel, Sweep, Epic, Soulshift, Bushido, Vigilance, Flip cards.... I'm probably forgetting some too.  What next?  Flip artifacts, bring back interrupts?
The game is still simple and easy and anyone can learn how to play it, but now it doesn't require brains.  It requires a computer, and money. 
I remember when you had to figure out the insane combos on your own, and you never let anyone else know about them.   
In today's environment everyone can see your deck build, make one similar to it and play with it.

I have friends that started playing this game when it first came out and are appauled at what it has become.  My good friend Chris was quoted as saying.  "When Magic hit it was like a nuke going off.  The big mushroom cloud was the frenzy that came afterwards and for the last several years.  However, after the smoke gets to a certain point it levels off, settles down, and dissipates."  The buble that is Magic will burst.  I'm not saying it will today, tomorrow or anytime soon.  After Hasbro brought Wizards of the Coast the game has become too structured.  Sets are released on a corporate scheduel, not just whenever WotC would develop and test the cards and then release them.  There are numerous things that I and many others have grown to dislike about the game, for example cards that have win conditions on them such as Test of Endurance, or Mortal Combat.  Cards like this should never have been printed.  The entire root of the problem was when the creator of the game sold his idea to Wizards.  After that he had no direct control over what direction his game would take.  He had no say in what Wizards would or would not print or what they'd come to make of his game.  Of course, there will be the diehard fans that will play Magic no matter the circumstances.  But it has come to my attention that Magic is dying.  Type 2 or type "screw" is dying out in places where it was once the standard, and being replaced by Type 1, which draws bigger crowds, more money and opportunities.

Ok, enough of my ranting, I've made my point, and given my opinions.  If you agree or not, that's up to you.  The fact of the matter remains that the game has been steadily going downhill.  An old quote says that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  Well Magic wasn't broke, and after 4th edition Wizards tried to "fix" it up a bit by coming out with new abilities more and more while letting other well known abilities fade into obscurity like Banding.  Magic, in my mind, won't survive another 10 years.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Denz
5  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Impatience [Deck] - test on: May 23, 2005, 10:59:46 am
Well I gave some more thought to the deck, and found the card Abeyance from Weatherlight.  Then I saw that Eranyo guy who's being printed in the next set as well as Pithing Needle.  I might re-think this deck, but for right now it's staying like this.  I might just build an entirely different deck around Eranyo, Arcane Lab, Hesitation, Standstill, and possibly Impatience.  The only reason I'm using Impatience is because no one else does.  I, and most of my friends tend to use rares that no one else does.  Especially because it's casual play.  But I think if you can find a combo broken enough it's worth it to try it out in the Type 1 environment.

Combo (20)
4X Orim's Chant
4X Abeyance
4X Isochron Scepter
4X Xantid Swarm
4X Impatience

Disruption (4)
2X Chalice of the Void
2X Ground Seal

Untility (11)
2X Birds of Paradise
2X Swords to Plowshares
4X Seal of Cleansing
2X Sensai's Top
2X Crucible of Worlds
1X Cunning Wish

Mana Sources (6)
1X Sol Ring
1X Lotus Petal
1X Mox Emerald
1X Mox Pearl
1X Mox Ruby
1X Black Lotus

Land (14)
4X Taiga
4X Savannah
3X Wooded Foothills
2X Windswept Heath
1X Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1X Strip Mine
2X Wasteland

Sideboard
2X Meddeling Mage
2X Birds of Paradise
2X Decree of Savagery
2X Swords to Plowshares
2X Pyroblast
2X Rack and Ruin
2X Artifact Mutation
6  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Discussion] Kataki, War's Wage on: May 19, 2005, 09:20:51 am
It's Pithing Needle

Pithing Needle - 1
Artifact
As Pithing Needle comes into play, name a card.
Activated abilities of the named cardcan't be played unless they're mana abilities.

Ok, I'm up against Mindslaver.dec.  I'll name Goblin Welder? 
This card is basically a Nul Rod for any card you name.  I could definately see this card getting heavily played.
7  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: [Deck] BDSM on: May 16, 2005, 11:01:19 am
Milignant Growth?  Are you serious.  I'm not going to splash another color just to play an high costing enchantment with a cumulative upkeep just so my opponent can draw some more cards.  If I was going to splash Green, I'd put in Storm Seeker instead of the Growth.  Howling mine is working fine too.  Standstill is a good option, combined with Arcane Lab, if they play a spell, I get to draw 3 cards and they can't play anything else.  Or, if I play a spell they are forced to draw 3 cards and can only play one spell their turn. I was able to fit in 3 Seat of the Synod and leave in two full sets of Urza Tron.  That's all I'd need anyways. 

I've thought about what you commented on Ephraim and I've already made some cuts of my own.  I've realized that creatures are my biggest threat.  I first considered Evacuation, this would be great because I would put all their creatures back in their hand and my Artifacts would deal plenty of damage.  However it doesn't exactly fit the theme so I tried to think of something else that might tie into the theme.  Then I remembered the old Reins of Power and Altar Dementia combo.  Since I'm forcing my opponent to draw so many cards, having them mill for a bunch would help greatly and it gets rid of the creature threat.  Two more Vedalken Shackles would also be effective in an early game scenario.  Another creature control option I considered was Portcullis.  Once there are 2 creatures in play, the rest get set aside under it. 

I'll probably leave in the Arcane Denials, just because I need some sort of counter, and my opponent usually draws the extra cards.  Force of Will is coming out, Capsize is going into Sideboard.  And that's about all I've done to the deck.
Any other suggestions are welcome.
Denz
8  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: [Deck] BDSM on: May 10, 2005, 06:23:04 pm
Urza Tron is sick if I can get it in an early game scenario.  I just drop down my damage sources and then Prosperity for plenty to pound my opponent into submisison.  However, I am running some high casting cost artifacts, so if I don't get Tron, I have to get Workshop or Tolarian.  If not, I'm kinda screwed because mana accelerates this deck alot.  Especially with the amount of cards being drawn, mana is key.

Arcane Lab is a great idea, I don't know why I'm not running it.  After a large Prosperity It shuts me down slightly, but I can pick and choose what cards I need to win at that point.  This way Prosperity doesn't end up killing me by giving my opponent what they need to kill me. 

Bullwhip?!  Shackles is so much better.  Or I could go really old school and do Caltrops + Siren's Call.  However these cards only partially have something to do with the deck theme of bondage.  So does Jinxed Choker.  That doesn't mean I'm going to use those cards.  I really want to punish my opponent for having cards in their hand.  A Mindslaver might even be cool in this deck, I steal their turn and keep lots of cards in their hand.  Or if they have something that draws them cards, and use it on them.
9  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Fun with Chains, the rewrite on: May 08, 2005, 01:06:52 pm
Jacob Orlove wrote
Quote
Here's what chains does, assuming no other draw-replacement effects are around.

Every time you would draw a card, check: is this a draw phase? If yes, check: is this the first card I am drawing in this draw phase? If yes, just draw the card. Note that it does NOT need to be *your* draw phase.

If you answered "no" to one of those questions, check: do you have at least one card in your hand? If yes, discard a card, then draw your card. If no, mill for one. In other words, if you have at least one card in-hand, Chains turns regular draws into Compulsions.

Drawing multiple cards is just drawing one card several times in a row.

Multiple chains gets more complicated. Search the archives of this forum for some excellent summaries.

1: My opponent draws a card for the turn, takes a point from Dreams.
2: My opponent discards a card due to Chains, from being forced to draw an additional card from Anvil.  They take 2 from Megrim
3: My opponent then draws their additional card and takes a point from Dreams.
4: My opponent discards a card due to Anvil and takes 2 from Megirm.

It's +1 card for turn, -1 card for chains, +1 card for anvil, -1 card for anvil.  They don't net any card advantage Morganti.  This is a "soft lock" on the game.  The only thing your opponent can do is play instants.

This issue was already discussed in the rules forums when I initially asked about how Chains works.
10  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Fun with Chains, the rewrite on: May 07, 2005, 06:44:34 pm
Chains of Mephistopheles is an incredible card that many people either over look, or don't know about.  It is highly complex, and to use it effectively in a deck can create effects of a "soft lock". 

Anvil of Bogardan + CoM. 

Your opponent draws a card for their turn.  Anvil triggers, which in turn triggers CoM.  Your opponent has to discard a card to draw their next card.  Then, after drawing their card, your opponent must discard yet another card to the Anvil. 

Most of the draw 7's affect you as well as your opponent, except Wheel and Deal.  Granted most people overlook it because it gives your opponent card advantage.  In this sort of deck Wheel and Deal is exeptional and I'll tell you why. 

Wheel and Deal + CoM.

During your opponent's draw step cast Wheel and Deal, it is an instant, might as well use it like one.  Your opponent has to discard whatever hand they have left and then mill 7 cards.  You are forced to draw 1 card. 

Dreams is a great idea, however it costs 3 black, run 1 at most.  Megrim is ok keep 1 in the deck.  The Rack is what you want to run.  Once you've killed your opponent's ability to draw cards you inflict plenty of damage upon them with The Rack.  Rack goes off on their upkeep before they even draw, so if your opponent is stuck with one or no cards in hand thanks to Chains then they take 2 or 3 every turn.

Gifts Ungiven + Lim Dul's Vault - This is your draw engine.  Gifts practically gives you the pieces of the combo that you need, where Vaul helps you dig for it and put it ontop of your library for a price.  Life is a resourse, use it.

Disruption and Utility: Every deck needs it, every deck uses it.  Time Walk, Duress, Force Will, Tinker, Demonic Tutor, Yawg Will, etc...


This is my deck, though I have yet to come up with a good name for it.

Combo

3X Chains of Mephistopheles
4X Wheel and Deal
3X Anvil of Bogardan
2X The Rack
1X Words of War
1X Underworld Dreams
1X Megrim

Utility

1X Tinker
1X Time Walk
1X Yawgmoth's Will
1X Demonic Tutor

Draw

2X Gifts Ungiven
2X Lim Dul's Vault
1X Fact or Ficiton
1X Ancestral Recall

Disruption

4X Force of Will
4X Duress
4X Counterspell

Mana Sources

2X Dark Ritual
1X Sol Ring
1X Mox Sapphire
1X Mox Jet
1X Mox Ruby
1X Lotus Petal
1X Black Lotus
1X Mana Crypt

Land

4X Underground Sea
4X Polluted Delta
2X Badlands
2X Swamp
2X Island

Side Board

3X Sirocco
2X Lightning Bolt
2X Rack and Ruin
2X Red Elemental Blast
2X Planar Void
2X Stifle
2X Vedalken Orrery


Tell me what you think, and help me come up with a name.
Denz
11  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Revisions to Dragon once Portal becomes legal on: May 04, 2005, 09:17:50 pm
I think Wizards should just reprint the whole Portal saga.  There are a lot of cards that were printed as Sorceries, yet can only be played as Instants.  Also, rewording of cards is needed.  There is no official Oracle text on Zodiac, but thanks for the update Kowal.
12  Eternal Formats / Creative / Revisions to Dragon once Portal becomes legal on: May 04, 2005, 09:12:48 pm
Zodaic Dragon might be an ultra rare card to find.  For those of you who don't know what Zodiac Dragon does.  Click Here However, in a deck like Dragon this card can be very useful.  Bazzar, the Dragon goes to your graveyard and immediately returns to your hand.  Compulsion, you discard the dragon, draw your card and get your dragon back.  I'd like to fit Pyromancy into the deck, but I think it's a little overpriced.  Solitary Confinement on the other hand is perfect for this sort of card.  I discard the Dragon to Solitary, get it back, Bazzar, discard the Dragon and some Squees.  That's game lock till I kill my opponent with Worldgorger, or Kumano.  Let me know what you guys think about this combo that I stumbled upon.  Does the mana base need work? 

Land
4X Underground Sea
2X Tropical Island
2X Scrubland
1X Bayou
1X Badlands
4X Polluted Delta

Mana
1X Sol Ring
1X Mana Crypt
1X Mox Sapphire
1X Mox Jet
1X Mox Emerald
1X Mox Ruby
1X Black Lotus

3X Duress
4X Force of Will

4X Bazaar of Baghdad
4X Squee, Goblin Nabob
2X Compulsion
2X Solitary Confinement
4X Worldgorger Dragon
2X Zodiac Dragon
1X Entomb
4X Intuition
1X Vampiric Tutor
1X Demonic Tutor
1X Ancestral Recall
4X Animate Dead
2X Kumano, Master Yamabushi

Sideboard
4X Xantid Swarm
2X Ivory Mask
2X Sundering Titan
2X Pernicious Deed
2X Meddeling Mage
2X Cranial Extraction
1X Chalice of the Void
13  Eternal Formats / Creative / Meloku's Crucible on: April 28, 2005, 03:53:18 pm
When I first saw Crucible of Worlds I thought about a "Turbo Land" type of deck, but after I saw Meloku, I knew how I was going to milk the CoW.

Combo:

4X Meloku
4X Crucible of Worlds
2X Altar of Dementia
2X Gerrard's Wisdom
2X Lifegift
1X Fastbond
1X Zuran Orb

Utility:

2X Cunning Wish
1X Tinker
1X Time Walk
1X Worldly Tutor
1X Enlightened Tutor
1X Crop Rotation

Draw:

4X Accumulated Knowledge
4X Brainstorm
1X Ancestral Recall

Disruption:

4X Force of Will
4X Counterspell
2X Mana Drain
1X Tormod's Crypt

Land:

4X Tundra
4X Tropical Island
4X Flooded Strand
2X Windswept Heath
1X Mishra's Workshop
1X Strip Mine

Mana

1X Mox Sapphire
1X Mox Emerald



Basically the Combo works like this.  I get out Fastbond turn 1, I fetch out every land I can, I play Meloku and Crucible.  Lifegift, Gerrard's Wisdom, and Zorb keep me alive.  I return a land to my hand using Meloku and make a 1/1 flying illusion.  I play the land through Fastbond, I loose a life, but gain it back through either Lifegift or sac it to Zorb.  I play it from my graveyard through Crucible and Fastbond and make billions of 1/1 flyers.  If I can't kill you with damage, I get out Altar and deck you. 

Unlike some other decks I've come up with, this has two solid win conditions.  I've built and tested the deck already with Apprentice and it can win turn three, it did six out of ten times.

Any suggestions, comments, questions, feel free to post them.

Denz
14  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: [Deck] BDSM on: April 21, 2005, 11:36:27 am
 Blue

4X Arcane Denial
4X Force of Will
4X Copy Artifact
4X Capsize
2X Prosperity
2X Fabricate
2X Brainguyser
1X Time Walk (Proxied)
1X Ancestral Recall (Proxied)

Artifact

4X Misers' Cage
2X Skullcage
2X Iron Maiden
2X Howling Mine
2X Vedalken Shackles
1X Black Vise
1X Staf of Domination
1X Sol Ring
1X Mox Sapphire (Proxied)
1X Candelabra of Twanos (Proxied)

Land

8X Island
3X Urza's Tower
3X Urza's Powerplant
3X Urza's Mine
1X Mishra's Workshop
1X Tolarian Academy

SB

4X Mana Drain
2X Iron Maiden
2X Booby Trap
2X Skullcage
1X Braingeyser

I have revised the deck as of recently.  I took out Thought Prison entirely.  It's a cool card, but costs too much and takes cards out of my opponent's hand, when I want them to have lots of cards in their hand.  I don't know why I didn't have Ancestral in the deck, and Vedalken Shackles main deck.  I put Booby Trap in my sideboard because it can deal 10 damage, and with all the cards my opponent draws, I might get lucky, also I get to see what my opponent is drawing regardless.
15  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Phyrexian Catacombs and Slopes of Anguish on: April 21, 2005, 11:10:49 am
Who doesn't remember the legendary lands from Urza's Saga?  I was so ticked because they didn't have a legendary land for Black or Red.  I've always wondered what they would have been like or what they would do.  So I decided to make my own versions.

Phyrexian Catacombs
Legendary Land
{T}: Add {B} to your mana pool for each creature in your graveyard.

I'm gonna leave the wording as this for now, but should it be equal to tne number of creatures in your graveyard?

Current Wording

Phyrexian Catacombs
Legendary Land
{T}: Add {B} to your mana pool for each creature in your graveyard.



Next up the red one

Slopes of Anguish
Legendary Land
{T}: Add {R} to your mana pool equal to the amount of damage you have dealt to your opponent so far this turn.

Current Wording

Slopes of Anguish
Legendary Land
{T}: Add {R} to your mana pool equal to the amount of damage you have dealt to your opponent so far this turn.



Tell me what you think, are they overly powerful, or not powerful enough, remember they are Legendary.
Denz
16  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Re: Auramancy on: April 12, 2005, 10:15:40 pm
Not only would this be insane in an Enchantress deck with things like Rancor, but it would also be a reason to use Skull of Orm again.  So whatever Enchantment that doesn't return on it's own you can return and cast again.  If you're running 4 Argothian Enchantress and 4 Enchantress' Presence that's a lot of card draw. 

I really like the idea, a very versitile card.
17  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Mana stop on: April 05, 2005, 05:38:01 pm
Blue already has some land manipulation spells and abilities.  For instance, Sunder and Early Frost.  Sunder returns all lands to their owners hands'.  A massive bounce.  Then there's Early Frost which costs {1}{U}, is an instant and taps down 3 lands, but it doesn't keep them tapped like this enchantment.
Still, I like it as an Enchantment and would like to see the text be something along these lines.

[Card Name]  {Casting Cost}
Enchantment
"When this comes into play, tap up to two target lands. Those lands do not untap during their controller's untap step."

The CC should be up around {3}{U} or {3}{U}{U} because this is a bit better than Plow Under, which only puts 3 lands ontop of your opponents' library.
18  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Impatience [Deck] - test on: April 05, 2005, 03:49:05 pm
This is a deck that came into mind while looking over mass amounts of old school cards and rares that some people don't use anymore.

Combo #1

1X Crop Rotation
1X Strip Mine
2X Wasteland
2X Crucible of Worlds

Combo #2

4X Orim's Chant
4X Isochron Scepter
4X Xantid Swarm
4X Impatience

Combo #3

2X Platinum Angel
2X Leonin Abunas
1X Tooth and Nail

Disruption

2X Chalice of the Void
2X Ground Seal

Untility

4X Birds of Paradise
4X Seal of Cleansing
2X Sensai's Top

Mana Sources

1X Sol Ring
1X Lotus Petal
1X Mox Emerald
1X Mox Pearl
1X Mox Ruby
1X Black Lotus

Land

4X Taiga
4X Savannah
3X Wooded Foothills
2X Windswept Heath
1X Boseiju, Who Shelters All

Sideboard

2X Gorilla Shaman
2X Peace Talks
2X Decree of Savagery
2X Shunt
4X Pyroblast

I built this deck out in my head taking into consideration the 4 most important things in Magic.  

1) Mana, and I don't mean land.  Mana sources like Moxen, Lotus, and other artifacts.  To shut these down is to stop most type 1 decks.  I would run Nul Rod, but that would end up screwing me over in the end.

2) Land.  Land helps keep a deck running, and fetching for land helps speed a deck up.  Being able to take out your opponents land will stall them out.

3) Playing spells successfuly.  If I just stop my opponents from casting spells with Chant on a stick, they will just sit there and look stupid.  Besides, counter decks can't stop everything that comes through.  

4) Card advantage / hand disruption.  If I can draw into what I need before my opponent, that means I would win.  If I can disrupt what my opponent has in hand, or is going to draw, I can slow them down.

Wasteland, Strip Mine, and Crucible take out land.

Orim's Chant on a Stick takes out spells.  

Gorilla Shaman or Chalice take out mana souces.

Sensai's Top for card advantage.  

Tell me what you think.  Any potential problems you see.  Any cards you wouldn't reccomend using.  Basically I just wanted an excuse to use my 4X Impatience and built this deck idea around that.

My sideboard definately needs some re-working.  However I'm having trouble thinking of cards to put in it.  Any suggestions?
19  Vintage Community Discussion / Rules Q&A / Question on Prosperity on: March 31, 2005, 12:33:13 pm
Player A attempts to cast Prosperity.  He pays the initial casting cost of {U} and puts Prosperity on the stack.  

Player A then asks Player B if they have any responses.  

Player B doesn't have enough untapped for a counter and no force in hand.  

Player A then chooses to tap his Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, and pay 4 for {X}.  And forces each player to draw 4 cards.

Can Player A do this?  The same thing would apply if it were Fireball, Blaze, or any other X spell.
20  Eternal Formats / Creative / [Deck] Underworld Dreams on: March 29, 2005, 10:01:47 pm
Ok, Tinker and Jar go back in over puzzle box.

I'm still debating between Windfall and Wheel and Deal.  For now I'll keep Windfall in.

Also if I run 2 Hypies I need to cut 2 of something.  Either 2 Prosperity, 2 Megrim, or 2 Counterspell.  None of which I really want to cut, but I will make sacrifices if I have to.

Another creature I thought about using was Cephalid Broker.  Why? It's a 2/2, and forces my opponent to draw two cards then discard two cards.  It costs one more than Hypie, but is 3{U} instead of 1{B}{B}.

Current Deck List

Kill
(6)
4X Underworld Dreams
2X Megrim (Secondary)

Search
(5)
2X Cunning Wish
1X Mystical Tutor
1X Tinker
1X Demonic Tutor

Utility
(2)
1X Yawgmoth's Will
1X Time Walk (Proxied)

Draw
(11)
4X Brainstorm
2X Prosperity
1X Timetwister
1X Windfall
1X Wheel of Fortune
1X Memory Jar
1X Ancestral Recall (Proxied)

Disruption
(12)
4X Force of Will
4X Counterspell
4X Duress

Mana
(25)
4X Underground Sea
4X Polluted Delta
3X Badlands
2X Underground River
1X Bloodstained Mire
1X Mox Saphire (Proxied)
1X Mox Jet (Proxied)
1X Mox Ruby (Proxied)
1X Black Lotus (Proxied)
1X Lotus Petal
1X Mana Crypt
1X Sol Ring
4X Dark Ritual

Total Cards: (61)

Sideboard
(15)
2X Terminate
2X Planar Void
2X Cranial Extraction
2X Stifle
2X Annul
2X Rack and Ruin
2X Pyroblast
1X Wheel and Deal

Possible Creaturs

2X Hypnotic Specter
2X Cephalid Broker
21  Eternal Formats / Creative / [Deck] Underworld Dreams on: March 29, 2005, 02:46:47 pm
Wow, thanks for all the feed back guys.  There were a lot of good points you made.  Dragon Mage is definately way too expensive and Shocker is a good option, but Hypie is even better.  

Definate changes after advice:

+4X Brainstorm.  Why did I even take them out in the first place?

-4X Bolts.  I need to draw cards to deal more damage than 3 and cutting a lot of red speeds up the deck.

+4X Duress.  These ensure my combo can go off.

-2X Winds of Change.  A sub par draw 7 that would only draw me 6 at best.

-2X Dragon Mage.  Costs way too much to be effective.

+2X Cunning Wish.  Awesome utility card.

-2X Megrim.  They are a good tek against Bazzar though.

+2X Puzzle Box.  It's a permanant version of Winds of Change that disrupts my opponent's hand as much as possible.  This combined with Duress is effective.

-2X Anvil of Bogardan.  The only downside to the Anvil is that my opponents get to choose the card they discard.

+2X Hypnotic Specter.  Incredible, Flyer, random discard.

-2X Chains.  The Chains combo is cool, however it definately disrupted the main goal of the deck and I found I was side boarding it out after game 1 several times.

-3X Volcanic Island.  Cutting most of red, except for the one Wheel will speed the deck up ten fold.  I could even afford to maybe even cut Ruby, since Red isn't a main color anymore.  Seas are the most important, followed by Badlands, then Rivers.  Gemstones, Salt Marsh, and City of Brass are also probable.  All three have their drawbacks, but get the job done in the end.  Salt Marsh might slow me down a turn, but they don't end up killing me slowly.  Same with the Rivers, but I could at least use them for colorless.

-1X Wheel and Deal.  Wheel and Deal is alright, it's an instant, and it forces my opponent to draw 7, but it only nets me 1 card.

+1X Windfall.  This is more superior to Wheel and Deal becase it will draw more cards for me.

The Tinker / Jar combo is awesome.  But it takes up more slots than it's worth.

I'd still like to keep Megrim in the deck because of Duress, Hypies, and my Wheels.  But I've trimed the deck down to 61 cards and I don't want to add in anything else.  They also don't fit well into my sideboard.  Perhaps I can ditch Annul for Megrims.  But then that would be one less answer I could Wish for.

Once again thanks for your advice.  If you have any other suggestions on these new changes, please feel free to comment.
22  Eternal Formats / Creative / [Deck] Underworld Dreams on: March 29, 2005, 02:17:03 am
I've done a lot of thinking and considering of cards for this deck.  I talked my delema out with a long time friend and we disected my deck card by card and he asked why it was in there and if it really needed to be there.  Then made some suggestions as to replacements.

First off, what I'm going to cut from the deck and sideboard and why.

Cuts:

-2X Megrim: Why? Megrim is not a great secondary kill and is definately not a primary kill.  Megrim only deals damage when my opponent discards.  Thus, my opponent is only affected by Wheel of Fortune, Wheel and Deal, and Anvil of Bogardan.

-1X Vampiric Tutor: Why?  A: Vampiric Tutor costs me 2 life.  The only time I've really ever needed Vamp was for a draw 7 to save myself.  Mystical can dig up any draw 7 I run.  Demonic can dig up a Dreams or any other Utility card if I really need it at the time.

-1X Time Spiral: Why? Well Time Spiral is too expensive and if I can get it to go off it's incredible.  But if I get stuck with it in hand it's chewing up card space.

From Sideboard: -2X Terminate: Why? I only really need these for certain creatures, Plats or Welders mainly.  

I am also considering cutting the two Underground Rivers for two Gemstone Mines.  I don't use the Rivers often, mostly for colorless and only for colored mana if I really need it.  But I can only use the Mines 3 times and they're gone.

Cards to add to the deck and sideboard and why.

Add:

+2 Prosperity: Why? I weighed Prosperity against Brain Guyser and decided finally that Prosperity is clearly better.  Prosperity makes ME draw cards.  I don't have much of a draw engine in this deck.  Also, I've had Brain Guyser get Misdirected to my opponent.  This makes my opponent have to counter the Prosperity.  Also, I don't have to pay X until the spell resovles, thus I don't end up tapping out if it ends up getting countered.

+2 Cunning Wish: Why? More like why haven't I been running these?  Cunning Wish is a superior Utility card that can dig up any of 13 cards in my sideboard.

+2 Dragon Mage: Why? 1: Even though it's expensive it's a good secondary win condition.  2: It's a 5/5 Flying beat stick and blocker. 3: It has a built in Wheel of Fortune.

To Sideboard +2 Cranial Extraction: Why? Why not?  This is an excelent game two sideboard option.  Once I know what my opponent is running, I can put these in and target his key spells.

 
Current Deck List

Kill
(6)
4X Underworld Dreams
2X Dragon Mage (Secondary)

Combo Lock
(5)
2X Chains of Mephistopheles
2X Anvil of Bogardan
1X Wheel and Deal (1X Sideboard)

Search
(4)
2X Cunning Wish
1X Demonic Tutor
1X Mystical Tutor

Utility
(2)
1X Yawgmoth's Will
1X Time Walk (Proxied)

Draw
(7)
2X Prosperity
2X Winds of Change
1X Wheel of Fortune
1X Timetwister
1X Ancestral Recall (Proxied)

Disruption
(8)
4X Force of Will
4X Counterspell

Damage
(4)
4X Lightning Bolt

Mana
(28)
4X Underground Sea
4X Polluted Delta
3X Volcanic Island
3X Badlands
2X Underground River
1X Bloodstained Mire
1X Mox Saphire (Proxied)
1X Mox Jet (Proxied)
1X Mox Ruby (Proxied)
1X Black Lotus (Proxied)
1X Lotus Petal
1X Mana Crypt
1X Sol Ring
4X Dark Ritual

Total Cards: (64)

Sideboard
(15)
2X Terminate
2X Planar Void
2X Cranial Extraction
2X Stifle
2X Annul
2X Rack and Ruin
2X Pyroblast
1X Wheel and Deal
23  Vintage Community Discussion / Rules Q&A / Boseiju, Who Shelters All VS Squelch on: March 17, 2005, 12:00:04 pm
Destroying Boseiju would be a good idea.  However, there is no instant speed LD in type 2.  Early Frost is an instant that taps down three lands.  However, mana abilities are faster than instants.  They can just pay 2 life, add the colorless and play something that's an Instant but not their Tooth and Nail with Entwine because it's a Sorcery.  

The problem with Tooth and Nail is if your opponent has the mana for it, and if they have it in hand.  However, usually good players don't play Boseiju until they've got enough mana for the Tooth and Nail w/ Entwine in the first place.  

Since Tooth and Nail doesn't target and just says "you may search your library..."  I don't see another way around this since Deflection nor Squelch will work.  Hopefully there will be a card in Saviors that will stop it.  If not, it will continue to be a broken combo.  As soon as Ravager decks die, Tooth and Nail decks will be perhaps one of the best decks in Type II.

Now, Early Frost is the only thing I could come up with that could counter act Boseiju, because you can tap it down in response to their untap phase, but to keep it tapped down, Mono Blue Control would have to run Early Frost on a Stick (Isochron Scepter) to tap it down every turn during their opponents untap phase.  But they can still use Boseiju to play Tooth and Nail

Time Stop however, is the only thing that could STOP Tooth and Nail and Boseiju no matter what.
24  Vintage Community Discussion / Rules Q&A / Boseiju, Who Shelters All VS Squelch on: March 17, 2005, 10:10:34 am
That's why I argued the point so vigorously.  Since a judge told me I belived it to be true, and now that I know that he was wrong it makes me feel a little gullible to have believed him so much.  That and he let me get away with two wins in a match.  But now that I know that Squelch can't counter a Tooth and Nail's ability I'll can provide this information if anyone else tries to pull this off.

Also, I haven't looked at the current rule book.  Heck, the most recent rule book I have is Ice Age, lol.  

So as I stated earlier, there still has to be a way around Boseiju and Tooth and Nail decks.  If I can't counter the spell, or the ability, I could still do something.  I'll take out Squelch and put in Deflection, I've got about 11 of 'em and target myself with the Tooth and Nail w/ Entwine instead of my opponent.

Thank you for the ruling guys.
25  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / [Completely Casual Deck] Faeries on: March 17, 2005, 10:02:18 am
Yes, I built a Faerie deck.  A friend of mine laughed and made fun of all the Faeries that came out in Urza block, and rolled his eyes when he saw them being used in Fish.  So I decided to build a fun casual deck and show him the power of Faeries.

Green

4X Faerie Noble
4X Scryb Sprites
4X Ukatabi Faerie
4X Seeker of Skybreak
2X Vitilize
2X Vitilizing Wind
1X Moment's Peace
1X Primal Rage
1X Aluren
1X Recycle

Blue

4X Cloud of Faeries
4X Thornwind Faeries
4X Weatherseed Faeries
2X Sea Sprite
2X Archivist
2X Deep Analysis
1X Soothsaying
1X Time Walk (Proxy)
1X Ancestral Recall (Proxy)

Artifact

1X Sol Ring
1X Library of Leng
1X Feldon's Cane
1X Lotus Petal
1x Mox Sapphire (Proxy)
1X Mox Emerald (Proxy)

Land

5X Island
4X Tropical Island
4X Forest
1X Gaea's Cradle


Combo: Aluren, Recycle, and Soothsaying.  Using Soothsaying, I rig the top X cards of my library, then on my turn I play a card, then draw a card till it stops.  I could then use my Archivists to draw more cards if nessecary, and the Seekers to untap them and draw even more.

Faerie Noble or Thornwind Faeries with the Seekers and Vitalize amounts to plenty of damage.  The nobles pump up all my Faeries, and I tim my opponent then untap and do it again.  Then I attack and if I've got enough mana I slap down a Vitilizing Wind.

Ukatabi Faeries are alright, they can blow up an artifact, but at a price of 3{G}, and they only take out artifacts.  

Weatherseed Faeries are a must, they're the strongest power wise among the Faeries, and they're pro Red, which has come in handy a number of times.

Cloud of Faries are so broken in this deck, especially if I have Gaea's Cradle out.  I can tap my Cradle, and an Island, play the Cloud of Faeries, then untap and have a lot floating that I can filter into either Soothsaying or playing more creatures.

I've only really needed Primal Rage on very few occasions, due to the fact that all my Faeries fly, if my opponent has flying blockers I can trample through if I have two or three Nobles on the board or go for the kill with Vitilizing Wind.

Anyways, if you have any suggestions, comments, or questions, feel free to post.
Denz
26  Vintage Community Discussion / Rules Q&A / Squelch VS Tooth and Nail w/ Entwine on: March 16, 2005, 07:38:29 pm
Quote
Jujulautre wrote:
Comprules wrote:
403.1. An activated ability is written as “[cost]: [effect].” The activation cost is everything before the colon ( : ). An ability’s activation cost must be paid by the player who is playing it.
Comprules wrote:
405.1. A static ability does something all the time rather than being activated or triggered. The ability isn’t played—it just “exists.” Such abilities apply only while the ability is on a permanent in play, unless the ability is covered by rule 402.8 or 402.9.
Comprules wrote:
502.32a Entwine is a static ability that functions while the spell is on the stack. “Entwine [cost]” means “You may choose to use all modes of this spell instead of just one. If you do, you pay an additional [cost].” Using the entwine ability follows the rules for choosing modes and paying additional costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f–h.



Ok, I'll explin how Squelch can stop Tooth and Nail's Entwine.  And this was explained to me by a DCI Judge

He asked me: "Is Entwine an ability, yes or no?"

I answered: "Yes."

He then asked: "Do you have to activate the entwine ability?"

I answered: "Yes, you have to spend 2 extra to play all modes of the card."

He then responded and said: "Then it becomes a perfectly legal target for Squelch, which Counters target activated ability.  The ability becomes active and goes on the stack, and therefor you may counter it with things like Stifle or Squelch."

I've used Squelch and Stifle to counter Entwine before, as well as Buyback, Flashback, and Cycling.  Entwine is a static ability that becomes active when you pay the cost.  

If somehow I'm wrong and you can't do this, I'd like to make this point.  That one of the basic rules in magic that I've learned is that there's ALWAYS a way around another card's ability.  If I'm wrong, then combos like Tooth and Nail with Boseiju is literally unstopable, and that's just not any fun.
27  Vintage Community Discussion / Community Introductions / Lists of Stores and People by State/Province on: March 15, 2005, 10:13:27 pm
CT

Sam's Comic Book Shop
862 East Main St.  
Meriden, CT 06450

Carries: Comic Books, Warhammer, and MtG

Weekly Type 1 tournements on Thursdays for Store Credit.
Weekly Type 2 tournaments on Fridays for Store Credit.

Omni Comics & Cards
854 Farmington Ave
Bristol, CT 06010

Carries: Comic Books, Baseball Cards, and MtG.

Also,

The Mana Drain Open: Hosted by Ray Robillard.
Courtyard by Marriott
63 Grand St.
Waterbury, Ct. 06702

Dates are set up by Ray.
28  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / [Seriously Casual] Hitchcock's "The Birds" on: March 15, 2005, 09:11:34 am
I really like this deck idea Ephraim.  It's using some cards that were considered crappy rares from Onslaught block and totally abusing them.  

I'd have to agree with Mouth of War, in that Soulcatcher's Aerie would be awesome in this deck, it goes well with Dispersing Orb.  But I'd have to disagree with using Opposition.  That only taps their stuff down, they can still use it if nessecary.  If it's back in their hand, they're stuck.

My good friend Chris had a bird deck that rocked Keepers, but he didn't use anything as broken as Faces of the Past.  He used Battle Screach and Panoptic Mirror to pump out bird tokens then would bounce things and clamp the tokens to make all his other birds bigger.  The Aerie definately turns your annoying 1/1 flyers into serious threats quickly.
29  Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Dragonstorm.dec on: March 14, 2005, 08:45:03 pm
I've seen more bizzare versions of this sort of deck.  I saw one online that was running Kobolds with Tangleroot, Fires of Yavamaya, Glimpse of Nature, and Dragonstorm.  He dug up 4 Tyrants and 4 Draco and swung for the win.  

Volcanic Dragons are cool, but with Portal being legal in October, perhaps you should look into Brimstone Dragon, it's a 6/6 Haste for 2 more.  

Besides that it looks like a pretty cool deck.
30  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / New Abilities and Keywording old abilities on: March 14, 2005, 08:32:35 pm
Actually BWM, in my opinion Keywording abilities makes them easier to understand and saves a lot of card space.  Especially for those of us who've been around the game for a long time and know what the abilities do.  
Besides that if they didn't keyword abilities Akroma, Angel of Wrath would have a lot of text.

Akroma, Angel of Wrath

Legendary Creature -- Angel

Flying (This creature can't be blocked except by creatures with flying), First Strike (This creature deals damage before creatures without First Strike), This creature is unaffected by summoning sickness, Trample (If all creatures assigned to block this creature recieve lethal damage, remaining damage can be assigned to defending player.) Protection from Black and Red (Prevent all damage dealt to this creature by Black and Red sources, this creature can't be blocked by Black or Red creatures, this creature can't be the target of Black or Red spells or abilities.  Vigilance (Attacking doesn't cause this creature to tap.)

6/6

Did I make my point?
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