The Chicago T8 had 4 Wills and 6 Tinkers.  The winning deck didn't use either of those cards.  Will is only truly gamebreaking when it is used in Sorm combo (which isn't looking too hot these days) and in the lategame of Drain decks (where the Drain player has already established complete control of the game).  As mentioned earlier, Type One is the format where a player can use every card (besides the stupid ones.  What the hell were they thinking with Chaos Orb?).  Banning Will would break the rules of Vintage. 

If the format should be refreshed, it should be through unrestricting.  Why do Dram Halls, Mind Over Matter, Trinisphere and Voltaic Key have to be there?  Unrestricting those would rejuvinate the format more than the banning of Trinisphere.

TY

I played against your Crucible deck when Katroop (?) used it.  He kept stripping my Volcanics and it took me a wicked long time to get red.  He was angry when he lost.  Did you win the tourney?

I'm Charley.  I did overlook the 20 life gain.  I looked on the Legacy forum and saw a Trix deck using Nightscape Familier and Diabolic Intent.  What do you think of that in T1?  Is this Grant?  If so, there were not that many Landstill decks.

Weird.  I'm in Utica.  Anyway, regarding the deck, have you considered playing a second Rectorable enchantment like Form of the Dragon?  It can really help when

a)  Your opponent has loads of mana/creatures

b) When you are not holding Donate and you have already Bargained down to low life

also, how is this deck better than Rector-Tendrils?

The tournament you described is eerily similar to the one I played in on Saturday, except there were 2 Landstill decks and a Gro deck.  Seriously, there was a Replenish deck and the only deck Trix lost to was FCG.  Anyway, this deck seems like it might have some surprise factor because everyone is expecting Gifts.  Where are you located?

Running black for the tutors and your own Colossus has worked well for me.  Tinker/Colossus is so good, it may be worth using in any deck that runs TFK. 

3x Juggernaut
3x SuChi
4x Goblin Welder
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Platinum Angel
1x Razormane Masticore
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Crucible of Worlds
1x Trinisphere
1x Tinker
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
3x Pyrostatic Pillar

4x City of Brass
3x Gemstone Mine
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
5x Moxen
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
4x Mishra's Workshop

SB
3x Choke
2x Pyroclasm
1x Triskellion
3x StP
3x Seal of Cleansing
3x Tornod's Crypt

The rainbow mana base is there so the deck is not restricted to 2 colors.  Crucible makes Gemstone Mine better and makes opposing Wastelands useless.  The Pillars are a metagame call.  I like Pillar because it helps a lot against the problems that Smennen mentioned.  It is also an easy card to board out because it is not essential to the deck's overall strategy.  I tried to make this deck like the old 5/3 decks that used Trinisphere.  Chalice is a solid replacement and is even better in many cases. 

With Fish beginning to dominate tournements, Workshop aggro is a solid choice.

I also have a big Fish problem in my metagame.  However, I like to play black to fix the inconsistency problem and make the deck more broken at the same time.  Playing a rainbow manabase not only makes playing black easy, it also helps out with Sundering Titan.  Getting 2 lands blown up when Sundering Titan hits play is not fun.

I did try a straight U/R Workshop Aggro with Blood Moon, but I really missed black.

What does this deck have that other fast control decks don't?  A slow, easy to stop win condition, I guess.  On the plus side, it has a great game against UG Madness :lol:

I would add Quirion Dryad, just in case the Kobold strategy doesn't work out.  Chalice for zero totally owns this deck   Never mind, Chalice for one owns this deck.  Doesn't stop Dryad from being a good alternate win.


I can't believe I spelled "one" wrong

Hi-Val hit it right on the nose, but I do think it is a good Wish target.  It's a situational card but it can be a devastating situational card.  The wish board is the perfect place for it.

I don't think Uba Mask is very good.  It doesn't really do anything against combo because they play all of their cards the turn they draw them (the combo player, that is).  4 Null Rods is also a too much.

quote (from a person I can't remember)  You don't want to play 4 of a card that is useless in multiples end quote

I would either use Su Chis or Karn and a couple of Jester's Caps in their place. 

I also think that Mono Brown is a great deck.  I play a mono brown prison but I have the Metalworker/Staff combo in it.  I find that with Chalices, Orb of Dreams, etc. the deck already has a great match against combo.

I would replace Sword of the Ages with Su-Chis and Sphere of Resistance with Chalice of the void.  I would also cut 1 Mana Source.  Here's why:

Real Threats are almost always better than equipment.  Su-Chis and Juggernauts are already big enough to take down your opponents and their creatures.  Your Swords are usually going to be dead draws

Sphere of Resistence wont hurt most of your opponents as much as Chalice will.  Go ahead, name of a deck that Sphere is better against.  Chalice is better against:

Oath (all varients)
Storm Combo (all varients)
Slaver
Dragon
Fish
Stax (because Sphere wil help them)
Workshop Beats (because Sphere will always be useless)
any deck with cards that cost 0,1 or 2!

25 is a good amount of mana, especially with Crucibles.

What about Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond?  They net free mana and adds to the storm count.  Wouldn't these be an auto-include?

I would deffinitely lose the Time Spiral and the Hurkyl's Recall from the main.  Add Windfall and Cunning Wish.

Oh, also drop the Strand, add a Delta and replace 2 of your Islands with the 4th Underground Sea and a Sol Ring

I don't have premium, so I didn't read your article.  However, I have a friend who plays Landstill and I am looking for a solid deck to beat it.  What are Landstill's bad matchups?

The tourney was only a tiny local so it wasn't a big deal, but thanks anyway.

There are 3 ways that this deck can effectively handle welder, 2 of which involve keeping the graveyard free of artifacts.

1.  First turn Chalice is the best way to keep Welders off the board.

2.  First turn Smokestack is good, but needs the Crucible to be truly effective.

3.  Go off with the combo before an artifact hits the graveyard.  This is also the Universal answer to everything

1. I do run Academy, my list should be -1 Wasteland (which was on the board instead of Platz) and +1 Academy.

2.  Orb of Dreams has been a bit useless at times, but Sphere of Resistance wouldn't do much better in its place.  I chose the Sphere because it is great against Drag4on.

3.  Since the deck does not play Welders, if the Golem gets forced it's a lot harder to win (even if the combo goes off).  Sundering Titan is also not as good sans the Welders.  Juggernauts can give Control, Aggro and Stax major headaches.  I'm planning on using Jester's Cap in the future.

4.  Chalice of the Void>EVERYTHING!!

Thanks for the help,sryan!

I think that OathSalvagers should use lots of 5-color mana sources and Pernicious Deeds (especially for Chicago, where there will probably be Titans and Chalices).  Pernicious Deed just seems much more flexible than Engineered Explosives and opening up the other colors seems like a good idea, too. 

The day's kind of hazy.  I remember getting loads of turn 1 smokestacks (which are devestating against aggro), I got the combo off a few times and against Oath I hit some Chalices for two.

I really like the Cap idea, because Jester's Cap is great against a lot of things and because it is the first rare I have ever gotten in a pack.  It was worth a lot of money at the time

Recently I got 1st place at my local tournement (which is powered for the most part) and I used this deck:

1x Trinisphere
4x Smokestack
4x Tangle Wire
3x Orb of Dreams
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Metalworker
3x Staff of Domination
3x Grafted Skullcap
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Karn, Silver Golem
4x Juggernaut
1x Memory Jar

5x Moxen
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
4x Mishra's Workshop
3x Ancint Tomb
2x City of Traitors
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
SB
4x Defense Grid
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Tornod's Crypt
1x Jester's Cap
1x Platinum Angel
1x Orb of Dreams

My Matchups were:
AuriOath W
G/U/W Aggro Control L
WW W
Drag4on W
Oath W
Fruity Pebbles W (upset of the day :lol:)
Meandeath D for drop

in the finals, I beat both the Oath deck and the G/U/W deck.  How would this deck do in a more competitive metagame, and how could I make it better?

How do you beat other Tendrils decks with TPS?  Force of Will will slow you down as much as it slows them down (for the most part) and you can't race them.  It's true that TPS can punch through hate, so the choice between TPS and other Tendrils variants is really a metagame call.  I really don't think that TPS has a good match against fast combo

@ JuJu
I didn't say that the deck was bad against combo.  I don't know the deck well enough to make that a statement.

@ the people who like this deck
 I want to know how the deck deals with combo and aggro (and spot removal and Oath). 

I think that Meandeath is the best Tendrils build out there.  It has a consistent turn 2, a nice amount of disruption and it can wish for answers.  It is faster than TPS and Dragon.  It has enough disruption to win the contol match.  The Tendrils decks that are faster than this one are a little unstable and TPS is a little too slow.    is the new .  Too bad October is so far away...

Being able to beat combo is amazingly important.  If this statement applies to you go:

-2x Solemn Similicrum
-1x Trike
- 4x Tangle Wire
+4x Chalice of the Void
+4x Orb of Dreams
+1x 3sphere

If it suits your meta, drop the Orbs to the board and play Tangle Wire, Smokestack or Crucible

If you have a TPS/Dra4gon meta, Keep the Orbs and add Root Maze to the board.

I played a fun W/U/G Dryad deck for a couple of days.  I like the Dryad and I wanted to find a way to make a good deck around it.  Here's a modified version.

4x Quirion Dryad
4x Meddling Mage
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
1x Gush
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Ancestral
1x Time Walk
3x Cunning Wish
3x Serum Visions
3x Swords to Plowshare
3x Null Rod
3x Daze

3x On-color Moxen
1x Black Lotus
5x Fetchlands
4x Tundra
4x Tropical Island
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
3x Island

SB
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Ground Seal
1x Stifle
1x Misdirection
1x Oxidize
1x Demystify
1x Daze
1x Hydroblast
1x Swords to Plowshare
1x Echoing Truth

What aggro/control needs to able to do is handle 2 decks that will probably be a problem for them.  Any new aggro control deck needs to have ample answers for both Oath and combo.

The universal hoser of these two decks is Meddling Mage. You may say that meddling mage is purely a control card but the decks in question here are aggro/CONTROL.  The legs on meddling mage don's hurt either.

I have come to the conclusion tnat the two cards that eat at combo the most are Null Rod and Arcane Laboratory.  Most decks would rather maindeck Null Rod because of its usefullness against other decks like slaver.

For Oath, as well as for a plethora of other decks, Swords to Plowshare and Waterfront Bouncer are excellent cards and will hurt your opponent quite badly.

U/W Beatz

4x Meddling Mage
2x Waterfront Bouncer
3x Null Rod
2x Stifle
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
2x Exalted Angel
4x Standstill
3x Swords to Plowshare
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
4x Spiketail Hatchling
2x Crucible of Worlds

4x Mishra's Factory
3x Faerie Conclave
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Saphire
1x Plains
1x Island

A teammate of mine attempted to run this deck and found it both slow and vulnerable.  He said that it lost to combo and aggro and that it died to spot removal.  How does this deck defend against the above mentioned items?