Link worked before. No matter. The link has been updated and now leads to the tournament signup thread on SCG.

-DL

The SCG Winter Legacy Tournament
(Link: http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=298578&start=0)

What: Unsanctioned online Legacy tournament using Magic Workstation (MWS)
When: March 5 - Undetermined Date
Where: Online.
Prizes: One card from your deck purchased and signed
"SCG Winter Legacy Tournament 07
Champion
-TurbulentDirge"
Bragging Rights / Fun, non-time-consuming experience
Entry Fee: Free

Further Details:
Currently signups are at over 30 players. Games will be played via MWS. The tournament is currently slated to be 6 round Swiss, although depending on the number of players that join in the days to come, this may change. Top 8 will be single elimination.
This is the third such tournament I have ran. The previous two went off without any hitches and were considered great sucesses by all involved. There is an extremely minimal time committment to play in the tournament (an hour or two of your time for the game every three days), and it is a great experience for testing. Complete information can be found at the link I initially provided, listed here again:
http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/...er=asc&start=0

If you have any questions that are not answered by the actual tournament link and the content therein, feel free to email or message me:
Email: ktkenshinx@gmail.com

I look forward to seeing you at the tournament.

-DL

It was silly of Wizards to print this card as it is. It's powerful in every format (putting it mildly), and is going to see lots of play.

I am hoping that like Trickbind it will not live up to the hype, but I feel this is not to be. I have a nasty feeling that Wizards, instead of issuing bannings and restrictions in formats, printed this instead to hose various archetypes (at least in their mind). This is worth maindecking in many decks.

-DL

Thank you for the clarification. It was this that I interpreted to mean that I could dredge and then bring out additional Ichorids.

Well, that pretty much invalidates the turn 2 win with Ghoul, although it would be possible given ridiculously improbable dredge conditions and cards in your hand. However, that is terribly unlikely.

Again, thank you for showing that rules faux pas.

-DL

The turn 2 win was with the following hand against an opponent that ostensibly had no FoW in their opening hand.

Bazaar, GGT, Ichorid, Unmask, Nether Shadow, Leyline

I was playing first. Instead of laying Leyline, I saw the potential for turn 1 Bazaar brokenness and Unmasked myself instead, taking GGT to the grave. I then played a Bazaar, dredged for 2 trolls, and passed. He played Brainstorm and land. During my upkeep, with Ichorid on the stack, I used Bazaar, and hit the gold mine, getting 2 more shadows, 2 Pedes, and 2 Ichorids, in addition to black creatures to remove. I recurred 3 shadows and 2 Ichorids. On my next dredge during the draw step, I saw that I had all the necessary pieces for the Ghoul win, including the cautionary Therapy. I sacrificed Ichorid to the Therapy, taking out the opposing FoW. I then dread returned Ghoul.
2 Pedes (12)
2 Ichorids (18)
2 Shadows (20)
He was at 19 anyway from the fetchland.

Now, this was a hideously lucky win that was nearly a statistical improbability. In fact it has not happened again. However, if nothing else it is a tiny bit of evidence in favor of Pede over Shell (although again, it has yet to happen again in lots of testing).

-DL

I am playing essentially the same decklist, but with a few minor modifactions that I found are just plain better.
-1 Titan, -1 Wurm, +1 Ghoul, +1 Breath: I am still of the opinion that Ghoul is far stronger than the other possible creatures in this deck (for the reanimator slot that is). His insane brokenness is truly realized when you get the second turn win that circumvents Force of Will (Therapy before Return). Titan himself has not been outstanding, and in the matchups where he was relevant, I would always have preferred Ghoul in my testing to charge into play. The same goes for Wurm, where I, similar to Meadbert's results, found that Ghoul or GGT was the better target in the scenario. The Ghoul addition obviously lends itself to...
-4 Shell, +4 Gigapede: Asides from synergy with Ghoul, the ability to disacrd not only GGT and dredgers, but also Dread Return and the ever important Therapy are invaluable when Wasteland/Mine/Needle ruin your party early in the game without a chance to react. Gigapede can save the day in this scenario. In a pinch, he is a fine Dread Return target (especially against UW Fish), due to his inablity to pick up the plowshare and go farm like the Ghoul would if hit by the white instant.
Finally, the Dread Return route (+2 Return) is still in with my build. FoW is rarely an issue, because this deck rarely has just 3 creatures in play. It either has less or more (testing has shown this to be the case) due to the probability involved with dredging large amounts of cards.

Have you ever found that having the additional 4 dredgers in the form of Shell has been particularly heplful? I rarely have a problem with not having enough Ichorid food, although Shell does provide additonal (if not particularly needed) ammo to a game 2/3 Shoal. Regardless, what other arguments do you have in favor of this creature?

-DL

The problem a lot of people have, especially against Stax, is that if on the play, you get to use Bazaar once, MAYBE twice if you are lucky, and then it is wastelanded or strip mined. Even if it is not, Ichorid does not draw that many cards from its deck; it likes to dredge. Running Loxodon is a way to cheat the dredging of cards. There is no way to recur Root Maze or get it into play without getting it in your opening hand alongside the Bazaar (the probability of which is not too high). However, running Loxodon is highly condusive to the deck's style of play (read: Dredging). Does it win the game? No, but after an attack with 2 Ichorids and Shadow on turn 3, getting him out almost assures a win next turn, for the opponent will be unable to use Crypt or other nastiness to stop your attack.

Loxodon does not directly win. He does the same thing as Maze (prevents the opponent from winning), albiet in a way that is more streamlined with the decks plan.

-DL

One card I have been running with excellent results is Loxodon Gatekeeper. He does everything Maze does, except he can be Dread Returned into play. I have taken to maindecking 2-3 of him (The number fluctuates) and 3 Dread Return. Against Bomberman he is awesome, conveniently out of range of the spellbomb and a solution to all their answers. They can potentially Explosives him away, but even then he can come right on back.
Coupled with maindeck Ancient Grudge, this could be an excellent answers to a lot of serious problems the manaless version has.

Admittedly he really doesn't deal with the Leyline problem, but test him; you will find that he deals excellently with all the problems Root Maze is supposed to.

-DL

I was not literally stating that the deck and board of that specific build of Stax are going to be the reasons why this deck is going to be checked in Vintage. I was saying, in a colloquial, vernacular, every day, conversational way, that there is a lot of hate that can be played against Ichorid to shut it down/severely hinder it. I only brought it up because I had played a game where all those cards were relevant to the opponents deck.


This quote being in reference to a list of cards played by Stax. Stax is not playing those cards because of Ichorid. Ichorid has, as far as I can see, had zero impact on people's choice of maindeck or sideboard cards; the hatred was there to begin with.


All true, but again, I was not saying that Stax is the sole reason that Ichorid will not utterly dominate.

-DL

I just played Stax on MWS with Ichorid, and in 2 post-board games, Jester showed me why I don't win those two games against that deck.

4 Bridge
4 Shard
4 Crypt
4 Chalice
3 Null Brooch
Duplicant
Triskelion
Wasteland
Strip Mine
Trinisphere
B-Ring
Crucible

And THAT, ladies and gentleman, is why Ichorid will be checked in Vintage. I won game 1 no sweat; he even killed Bazaar. Games 2 and 3 I was severely locked.

-DL

Meadbert's solution on SCG seems like a viable option:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 Emerald Charm
2 Ray (1 main)

And as he concludes there, for now, it's not worth it, but sooner or later, the metagame is going to adjust, and Leyline is just going to destroy this deck. This board at least attempts to combat that.
Even this solution will be easily foiled by a simple FoW, which I find to actually be good for the deck; if the deck proves to be beatable, then the talk of restricting cards integral to it will rightfully cease.

-DL

Ray, however, is innately better suited for the deck in every other situation involving enchantments (Oath, Animated Dead, etc) except for Leyline. Do you propose putting both Charms and Ray's in, one to deal exclusively with Leylines, the other to deal with everything else? Charm has its perks, but in those two previous matchups (Oath and Dragon) I woud much rather have the security of Ray's in the yard as opposed to requiring a Charm in the hand.
Yes, you do need two mana to deal with Leyline using Ray as opposed to the 1 from Charm, but against every other enchantment Ray is inarguably better.
So while Charm may be more effective against Leyline itself, Ray is overall the better card for the deck, and I don't find that a sacrifice worth making.

-DL

The deck is quite strong, although I disagree with Kobefan's appraisal of it as a newb deck. To an extent, he is correct; in game 1, the deck plays itself. In fact, game 1 is so ridiculous with this deck (considering most opponents don't have maindecked yard hate) that it feels like cheating. There are some plays to be made in game 1 that involve some experience with the deck, although I definitely wouldn't qualify that as skill. For instance, Wasteland and Strip Mine definitely slow down Ichorid in game 1, although with intelligent Therapy's, Gigapede applications, etc. you can circumvent this hatred.

Games 2 and 3 are quite different. As has been said numerous times before in this thread, graveyard hatred is ridiculous.
The manaless version, unless appropriately boarded, literally loses, literally loses, to Leyline of the Void. Emerald Charm, Ray, all that only does so much.
Even if you ignore Leyline, between unique board cards like Granite Shard, and universally played ones like Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt, the deck is really facing a lot of hatred. For those players that played Extended at this time last year, Ichorid was really dominant until people started boarding against it. It really is not that hard to ruin this deck.

As to restricting cards, that's just ridiculous.
-Bazaar is so vulnerable to hatred, and not just any hatred, hatred that any color or deck can play. Wasteland, Strip Mine, and Needle are all available for any Vintage deck to use.
-Serum Powder is a powerful card in this deck, but it certainly does not merit restriction. It is only powerful in this one deck, a deck which has a central strategy vulnerable to a wide arsenal of hatred.


Bottom line: this deck will work in Vintage the same way it worked in Extended. Lots of people will play it for a while, it will get hated to hell, and then only the dedicated people will try to play it. No restrictions are needed, the Invisible Hand of the Vintage metagame will fix itself (Adam Smith as applied to Magic).
-DL

PS
Anyone that thinks this deck should result in restrictions should read the following article:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/133

Roy Spires said about Dragon
Timmothy Frank replied
just replace a few card names and deck names in the above quotes. Look familiar?

Better solution to Leyline is simply boarding 4 Gemstone Caverns and the Rays. That removes the clunky Emerald Charm/Dual land idea, and keeps the deck and board more coherent.
This fix will work against Leyline in every situation that Charm will work, and then some. The only time that it will fail is if FoW is involved, in which case you were probably screwed anyway.

-DL

Leyline is a problem I have encountered in testing; the deck has no serious answers to it. Even Emerald Charm does not entirely fit the bill, as that G required to cast it is often dependant on having a Riftstone Portal in the yard.
We could just put 4 Savannah in the board, and then board in both the Rays and the Savannah's for game 2 against a deck we know will run Leyline. No matter what we do, our Leyline countermeasures are highly vulnerable to Duress, if they go first, or FoW, if we can even cast the card on our turn.
Thankfully, for now few decks run Leyline, but what will our solution be if more decks start to run it?

-DL

In testing of this deck, I have found that Chalice for 0 has only slightly less of an impact on the decks which we aim to hurt with Chalice for 1. As mentioned before, Therapy is extremely important to this deck; moreso if you are running Unmask either boarded or in the maindeck. In this case, Therapy becomes absolutely nuts.

I strongly agree with the strategy used in the list by Bebe. Ghoul is fine, but Ichorid really does not need it to win. Or rather, Dread Returning a Gigapede or Grave Troll will give you a win as quick or at worst one turn slower than a win courtesy of Ghoul.

@hg's list: I strongly reccomend running Riftstone Porta/Ancient Grudge instead of boarding in Bayou's and Overgrown Tomb. It is just more economical to board in 2 or so Portals than 6 G/B lands.

-DL

Type 2 players are universally wrong, or damn near close.
It says that the card is played on the turn the time counter is removed. Not put into play. That means it does up the precious storm count by 1. If it were not true, this card would be far more awful.
The reason it is good is because of some retarded applications with stuff like Welder, Reshape (I really think this card is not that horrible now that Bloom is around), Tinker, etc. Think about it.
Bloom in play. Sac for three. Weld out a mox, get Bloom back, Sac for another three.
Lotus can do it too, but Lotus is restricted. The ability to play 6 almost-Lotus's is sort of crazy. Think about it with Will, Reshape, and Infernal Tutor (yes these last two aren't Vintage staples, but that might change.)
 
Sac Black Lotus for three. Play Reshape, sacrificing Mox, Crypt or Vault for Bloom. Sacrifice Bloom for three. Play Ritual. If your hand is empty, play Infernal Tutor getting Yawg Will. Replay Lotus, Mox/Crypt/Vault, Reshape getting another Bloom, Ritual, Infernal Tutor for Tendrils or even Minds Desire, for win, etc...

The basic premise is this: Being able to play with four ESSENTIAL Lotus's in addition to LED and BL is crazy. This is horribly abusable with Reshape and Infernal Tutor, two cards that were beggin to find such applications in Vintage. Combined with Rituals and some good storm kills, this is a powerful possibility for a deck.

-DL

I agree with your analysis of Krosan Grip in Dragon. Currently playing Dragon, I find that Crypt is a horrible threat, something that this and this card alone can deal with, minus the "nuke your yard in response" antics. It is annoying that it costs three mana, but it is a worthy price to pay to eliminate without chance of countering the menace of Crypt.

Lotus Bloom is not as terrible as a lot of people make it out to be. Yes, it is delayed, but not every single Vintage game is over before turn 4, not by a long shot. In the appropriate type of deck, this could be quite important to set up a fourth turn win, with the previous three turns being used to protect the crucial fourth. Many storm decks can win only in the first two turns on a goldfish, minus the opponent's Duress and FoW. The ability to have an additional three mana when you attempt to go off on that fourth turn, as well as the spell count, could be quite useful.

This card also gets rather ridiculous with Infernal Tutor (Although this is probably a trick better suited to another format). Regardless, if this is in your hand (unrestricted, that is a possibility) and you are running IT (unrestricted, and quite good with rituals), this could definitely set up some powerful wins.

-DL

First of all, you cannot grab Extract with Cunning Wish. If you could, it would likely be run in more decks and be significantly better; extract at EoT would be quite good. However, as it is a sorcery, it is not nearly as good.

Secondly, Extract has limited impact against some decks. Yes, it does harm other decks (resolving Extract against Oath can significantly improve your chances in that matchup), but most decks shrug it off completely.

While I think that Pithing Needle could be maindecked, or Stifle for that matter, Extract just does not have the range of those cards. I have tested it in oath myself, with mixed results. Against oath, removing Sky Swallower or even Gaea's Blessing would essentially hold the game. But against Stax, it was a wasted three cards in Game 1.

As to your other question, I think that Needle is better because it can deal with a wider range of threats. Rod gets rid of a set plane of threats all at once, but does not even touch others: Bazaar, Welder, Shaman, etc.
However, Gifts and Grim Long are relatively protected against needle, whereas a resolved rod could cause some problems. That being said, it is your choice. I personally would use Needle.

-DL

Back in 2005, you discussed at length the deck I consider brilliant: Meandeck Tendrils.

Based on playtesting, which admittedly would not match your own, I have found this deck quite powerful. Again, I have confined my testing to MWS, and the quality of players there is not always consistent.

In your opinion, why has this deck never really won any major tournaments?
What prevents the deck from succeeding in the current metagame?
The maindeck, with the post-Ravnica block changes made, should probably be unaltered. What about the sideboard?
I know Kobefan and ostensibly you used the following
The Sideboard
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Green Fetches
1 Bayou
4 Force of Will
2 Chain of Vapor
Has this changed any? If so, has this improved the decks performance? If not, are there ways to make this deck into the unstoppable machine it should ideally be?

Thank you,
-DL

Zuran Orb was a strange idea I had to essentially dig 2 deeper with Spoils and up storm count by 1.
Imperial Seal is a better card, and will likely get rid of the Orb, but I wanted to see if that extra 2 dig mattered more than the seal.
-DL

Welcome back Tendrils of Agony.
There is nothing more frustrating or more annoying than being beaten on the first turn. Unless you can FoW or Misdirect something, you are completely helpless as you die. Not many decks in modern magic can claim to win on the first turn. Belcher can do it, but not with any consistency. TPS can occasionally do it, but that is also rather inconsistent. Dr. Doom has the possibility, but even that is not assured.

There is one deck that wins on the first turn, even with FoW ladies and gentleman, with considerable consistency. That is the Tendrils. Originally started by team Meandeck, this deck is quite the powerhouse. As I am neither a member of Team Meandeck, nor using their exact decklist (albeit mine is very similar) I will not refer to the deck by the name "Meandeck Tendrils," rather, I will use the more simple "Four Tendrils."

This brings me to the first point about this deck. It is the premier vintage user of 4 Tendrils of Agony as a win condition. It uses no wishes, nor desires to; it wins quickly without questions asked. The deck has three goals in mind, in the following order.
1) Play nine spells
2) have 2B and 2 other mana in the pool
3) Play Tendrils of Agony
This can be relatively simple, or rather difficult, depending on how clever a player you are, and what your opening hand was.
Here is my decklist to achieve this goal.

Four Tendrils
Vintage Deck inspired by Team Meandeck

Lands: 3
    1 Bayou
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island

Spells: 57
    4 Sleight of Hand    (EDITED: Now 4 Repeal)
    4 Land Grant
    4 Darkwater Egg
    4 Spoils of the Vault
    4 Night's Whisper
    4 Chromatic Sphere
    4 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Demonic Consultation
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Zuran Orb


As Stephen Menendian said, this deck does not rely on a critical mass of restricted cards and draw sevens to win. It uses redundancy of effects. For each function in this deck (mana acceleration, lands, tutor, card advantage, etc.) there are roughly seven to ten cards. This assures, at least most of the time, that you have what you want in hand, when you need it. It also gives a high percentage for a first turn win.

Instead of rehashing what Mr. Menendian has already said, I will simply direct you to his articles, as well as another supplement by Justin Walters.
Justin Walters: Playing Meandeck Tendrils
Stephen Menendian: The Meandeck Tendrils Primer Part 1
Stephen Menendian: The Meandeck Tendrils Primer Part 2

I have always loved this deck, but have never had the guts to play it outside of a goldfish. Recently, I have begun a new slew of testing against opponents on MWS playing at the very least legitimate vintage decks (oath, Stax, slaver, TPS, Gifts, etc.) I have had extremely favorable results against all decks. Three of the numerous games I have had are shown below.

(The numbers will denote my storm count)

Game 1: Stax
Opening Hand: Sapphire, Petal, Dark Ritual X2, Jet, Recall, Zuran Orb
1) Mox Sapphire
2) Play Ancestral Recall, draw Nights Whisper X2, Darkwater Egg
3) Mox Jet
4) Dark Ritual (BBB)
5) Night's Whisper (B). Draw Cabal Ritual, Brainstorm
6) Dark Ritual (BBB)
7) Lotus Petal, Sacrifice (UBBB)
8) Brainstorm. Draw Spoils, Crypt, Yawg Will. On top: Orb, Whisper (BBB)
9) Mana Crypt (CCBBB)
10) Darkwater Egg (CBBB)
11) Sac Egg, draw Whisper. (UBBB) Play Cabal Ritual (UBBBBBB)
12) Spoils for Tendrils, lose 14 life (UBBBBB)
13) Play Tendrils for 26 (UB)

Game 2: Oath
Opening Hand: Delta, D-Ritual x2, Petal, Spoils, Egg, Sphere
1) Petal
2) Sac Petal, Play D-Ritual. Opponent FoW's.
3) Play Delta (FoW added to storm count), Get Bayou
4) Play Dark Ritual (BBB)
5) Chromatic Sphere (BB)
6) Sacrifice Sphere (UB), Draw Sol Ring, Play Sol Ring and tap (CCB)
7) Darkwater Egg, sacrifice (BU), draw Yawgmoth's Will
8) Spoils for Sleight of Hand (U), lose 7 life.
9) Sleight, top two are Lotus and Sapphire. take Lotus
10) Lotus, sac. (BBB)
11) Play Yawgmoth's Will.
12) Lotus comes back (BBB)
14) Ritual x2 comes back (BBBBBBB)
15) Spoils for Tendrils, lose 5 life.
16) Tendrils for 32.

Game 3: TPS
Opening Hand: Grant, Pearl, Jet, Spoils, C-Ritual, Sleight, Vamp Tutor
1) Land Grant for Tropical Island, Play it (U)
2) Sleight of Hand, top two are Consultation, Tendrils. Take Consultation.
3) Mox Pearl (W)
4) Mox Jet (BW)
5) Cabal Ritual (BBB)
6) Vampiric Tutor for Black Lotus (BB)
7) Spoils for Black Lotus (B)
8) Play Lotus, sac (BBBB)
9) Consultation for Yawgmoth's Will (BBB). 24 removed.
10) Cast Will.
11) Play Lotus (BBB)
12) Consult for Lion's Eye Diamond (BB)
13) Play Diamond, sac (BBBBB)
14) Spoils for Tendrils, lose 2 life.
15) Tendrils for 30.

despite the unfortunate appearance of a FoW in Game 2, I still won. This deck, despite what some may consider slight inconsistency and difficulty in play, is quite powerful and rewarding. I urge all of you to consider this deck in the modern Vintage meta, and am currently surprised it is so underplayed.

What do you guys think of the Four Tendrils/Meandeck Tendrils idea?
What are its chief weaknesses?
What would you consider for a sideboard?

For the board, I am currently using
4 Unmask
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Pithing Needle
3 Spinning Darkness
These are tentative choices that fulfill a few important roles, but perhaps there are better choices.

Your thoughts on this list and archetype are greatly appreciated. This is a powerful deck and I believe it has tremendous potential in Vintage.
-DL


EDIT: This thread originally posted in the SCG Forums for Vintage. Since that time, a grievous error was spotted in the deck.
-4 Sleight of Hand
+4 Repeal
This further modernizes the decklist.

I have been testing a Monolith/Power Artifact deck on MWS, which admittedly is not the best medium for serious testing, but it has done relatively well. As was previously suggested, it does use Cunning Wish to fetch its Stroke in the board, and it has a tutor and acceleration base similar to TPS or GL. The list I am using currently is below.

The Monolith

// Lands
    4 Underground Sea
    4 City of Brass
    3 Gemstone Mine
    1 Tolarian Academy

// Spells
    4 Basalt Monolith
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Stroke of Genius
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Tinker
    1 Ancestral Recall
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Cunning Wish
    4 Duress
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Timetwister
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    4 Power Artifact
    1 Necropotence
    1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
    1 Echoing Truth
    4 Force of Will
    1 Grim Monolith
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Stroke of Genius
SB: 1 Fact or Fiction
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 Darksteel Colossus
SB: 1 Brain Freeze
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt

For goldfishing, the deck consistently attains a turn 2 or 3 win. When I say consistently, I do mean consitently; in approximately 20 godlfishes, only thrice has it needed a fourth turn, which was likely due to a bad play or to misfortune (synonomous with bad play).
In terms of matchups, I have only played GL, TPS, and Oath with it in any quantity to merit a judgement. The strength in the deck is its ability to play its combo pieces over a period of turns if need be. This allows the deck to play the control in the matchup to an extent, waiting until it has the ideal moment to win.
The sideboard/wishboard is tentative at the moment (read: Xantid Swarm has a big question mark next to it), but the maindeck is strong.

Thoughts or comments on this archetype?
-DL

FoW is definitely the wrong card for this deck. The ability to pitch a blue card is neither a) consistent or b) useful. That is to say it is far more useful to pitch to Unmask (as well as less disruptive) then to FoW a card.
Are you ever seriously going to want to pitch Time Walk/Recall/Brainstorm to a FoW when you can far more easily get rid of a random black card that is rather superfluous; Putrid Imp, Golgari Thug, random Stinky, etc. Unmask i feel is just strictly better. 

I have always had mixed feelings about the Ray, solely because it is so limited. Bounce can deal with virtually any permanent threat, whereas ray is only useful in select situations. Admittedly, these situations are relatively important for the deck, but there are better ways to deal with enchantments than the ray. Furthermore, the ray has a nice tendency to circumvent the god awful Chalice for 1.

Pillar seems too expensive, as I often do not play another land/mana after turn 1 Bazaar, Turn 2 Mine.

What is this decks best plan against slaver if it is so dangerous? I never found this matchup to be that bad, but perhaps I am wrong.

-DL

I actually did not find the Root Mazes to be irrelevant; they have wrecked all storm based combo decks I have played thus far.

I have always thought that bounce was better than the straight up enchantment destruction due to its versatility.
Planar Void I deal with using bounce, similar to leylines; I think we might be worrying too much and should just circumvent the graveyard cards with bounce.

That being said, I found that the most useless of my board cards was Null Rod. Two mana, and it seems like a card that handles situations we can race anyway. Get rid of it perhaps?
-DL

I for one have been fighting on the Ichorid side the entire time against the Oathers.

I believe that Smmenen is correct, but what about the following oath scenarios; what is the most appropriate way for Ichorid to race these?
(Let us assume for the sake of making it more complicated the Oath player goes first).

Scenario 1
Oath Turn 1: Mox, Orchard, Oath.
Ich Turn 1: Therapy-->FoW (They FoW), Bounce. (?)
OR
Ich Turn 1: Bazaar, go crazy with dredge and try to race.


Scenario 2
Oath Turn 1: Chalice for 1
Ich Turn 1: Bazaar, go to town (?)


Scenario 3
Oath Turn 1: Needle-->Bazaar
Ich Turn 1: Land, Imp, Mox, discard dredger, Brainstorm/Recall/Study
OR
Ich Turn 1: Land, Brainstorm/Recall/Study. Wait until turn 2 to dredge


Scenario 4
Oath Turn 1: Lotus/multiple Mox, Chalice for 1, Needle-->Bazaar
Ich Turn 1: (?help?)


Scenario 5
Oath Turn 1: any of the above + Tormod's Crypt
Ich Turn 1: (?help?)


4 and 5 are my personal questions, and while they are unlikely, in some form or another they are possible.

Other than these, I cannot really think of another threatening scenario.

Much gratitude for the help with this deck.
-DL

Turn 1 Mox, Orchard, Oath is not the biggest problem. Turn 1 Chalice for 1 is. What do we do against that?

What does your board look like now mistervader?
-DL

On the SCG forums, we are having an interesting argument. What is the Ichorid board plan against any build of Oath? There seems to be a relatively strong arsenal against Ichorid in the Oath maindeck and board, so what would you say our plan is?
-DL

So I played a number of games with the deck using Gamble. Here are my findings solely in regards to how the deck mulligans and how its turn 1 plays are in regards to Bazaar and Gamble.

Game 1:
Careful Study, CoB, Chalice, Thug, Chalice, Troll, Seal
CoB,Imperial SealBazaar

Game 2:
Ashen Ghoul, CoB, Bazaar, Therapy, Study, Thug, Strip Mine

Game 3:
Therapy, Chalice, Bazaar, Stinky, Stinky, Black Lotus, Gemstone Mine
(Note this one).

Game 4:
Mox Sapphire, Bazaar, Therapy, Troll, Lotus Petal, Chain of Vapor, Stinky

Game 5:
Therapy, Bazaar, CoB, Underground Sea, Troll, Chain of Vapor, Black Lotus

Game 6:
Hand 1: Vampiric Tutor, Gamble, Ichorid, Therapy, Imperial Seal, Therapy, Balance
Hand 2: Lotus, Putrid Imp, Stinky, Time Walk, Ichorid, Therapy
Hand 3: Ichorid, Stinky, Ghoul, Mine, Gamble
Turn 1: Mine, GambleBazaar: Discard Ichorid

Game 7:
Hand 1: CoB, Putrid Imp, Chalice, Putrid Imp, Ichorid, CoB, Troll
Hand 2: Stinky, Lotus Petal, Bazaar, Thug, Imperial Seal, Therapy
Turn 1: Petal, Imperial Seal
(Note this one)

Game 8:
Bazaar, Gamble, Chalice, CoB, Balance, Mine, Ichorid

Game 9:
Hand 1: Mox Jet, Gemstone Mine, Sea, CoB, Chain of Vapor, Chalice, CoB
Hand 2: Gamble, Time Walk, Darkblast, Troll, Chalice, Ichorid
Hand 3: Bazaar, Putrid Imp, Thug, Gemstone Mine, Stinky


Alright, so a few things about these sample hands.
1)   When I did not have Bazaar (Which wasn’t too often), I either mulliganed or waited for Gamble. When I did have Gamble and cast it for Bazaar, there was a high chance of retaining that Bazaar.
Conclusion: If Bazaar is your target card, or your target card is something you have 4 of in the deck, Gamble seems a good choice.
2)   Let us look at ‘Game 3:’ How would you have played that hand? Or would you have mulliganed?
3)   Let us look at ‘Game 7:’ What would you have done/Imperial Sealed for? Or would you have maybe dropped Bazaar first?

Strong deck overall; record for today is 8-2.

Comments and thoughts?
-DL

Another possible option for Dragon would be Coliseum. It essentially does the same thing as Bazaar, albeit only once, and it has synergy with other cards in the deck.

Comments?
-DL