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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Need major help with my casual control deck!
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on: August 12, 2008, 07:07:47 am
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I would drop the black all together, it is just for the tutor correct? Mono blue control has no issues with finding what you need with the draw. Some of the issues I see right away is that your only win is the Tinker -> Colossus, this is too narrow. If someone counters your tinker or removes your Colossus from the game you are not able to win.
Since you are building on a budget there are a couple of options for you on how to replace the cards you should take out.
Cards to remove:
Artifact lands (8) Demonic Tutor (1) Rewind (1) Arcane Denial (4)
The Artifact lands are just going to be easier to destroy as they are non-basic and they are artifacts, they do not give you all that extra benefit. The reason most type one players can get away with tinker in a mono-blue deck is due to the moxes. The Demonic tutor is being removed so you can focus on blue. There are better counterspells out there for less cost than rewind. Arcane Denial needs to be removed as you do not want your opponent drawing cards at all. The only time you would use a card like this would be for an underworld dreams deck or something along those lines.
Now that we have taken out 14 cards that gives a lot of room to play with.
Some of the options I like for more casual type one play are:
Ophidian Morphling Manaleak/Spell Snare Chain of Vapor Islands/Fetches (so you have around 15 lands) Waterfront Bouncer
These cards will allow you to control the board as well as draw more. I would play with 2-3 Ophidians, 1-2 Morphlings. Replace your Arcane denials with the leaks or proxy the FOW's. Bring in the Chain of Vapors or Waterfront Bouncers for creature control (bounce and then counter if you need). I am not sure how much you have to spend or what cards you already own, so you could also look at Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice.
Hope this helps. Also you can do a search for "Mono Blue", "Mono-Blue", or "Monoblue" and get more ideas.
Replacements: Islands or Fetches- dependant on what you can afford
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Mono Blue Legacy
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on: August 12, 2008, 06:29:41 am
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Ophidian is a great card for most mono-blue decks. If you are playing playing nothing but islands, Vedalken Shackles is a fun card to put in mono-blue, it also allows you to deal with creatures that got through your counter. If you need more from your creatures you could always use Sword of Fire and Ice or Umezawa's Jitte.
Once you have a setup on the board I always used to play with standstills, another great draw card for control decks.
Post a updated deck list and let us know how it turns out. Mono Blue is a lot of fun.
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4
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Casual Stax
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on: May 13, 2008, 04:05:47 pm
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You could also look into Meditate. They would give you a lot of card advantage. Also Karn, Silver Golem, nothing is more fun than making their artifacts creatures and knocking them out with direct damage (Triskelion, Bosh).
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6
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Improving Goblins in Vintage
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on: November 30, 2005, 10:26:49 am
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I should clarify when beserk is being used, it is not really a "win more" (but it obviously could be). it is used in the games when you dont combo out. These games do happen, when you only have 4-5 goblins out and one is a Piledriver then the beserk is huge, you can beserk your Piledriver and win the game. I was unsure at first, but then I played with it and it has won me more games than games where it was a dead draw (not very often, you can even kill creatures...but you will take alot more damage, but sometimes it is worth it).
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7
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Improving Goblins in Vintage
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on: November 29, 2005, 03:45:54 pm
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If you are looking for a card like goblin grenade, I have been playing with beserks and I have been thinking about fling to finish people off. Beserk has won me alot of games and people do not see it coming.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: A deck I'm trying, do you have any tips?
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on: October 07, 2005, 11:20:50 am
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I dont know if you have thought of Horn of Greed to help out the draw for the deck? I know that has been the usual draw engine with this type of deck in the past. Do you find that the blue draw you do have is enough to set yourself up? Also bazaar is a very nice card to have for this type of deck.
Have you done any testing since you posted?
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9
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: A deck I'm trying, do you have any tips?
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on: September 30, 2005, 10:47:32 am
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A couple people that play in the store i go to play with this type of deck. keith johnson plays with a deck like this, he calls it turboland. If you do a search you will find alot of posts on it. it mostly uses barbarian ring as the win. but it is mostly the same type of concept.
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10
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Goblin Sligh help requested
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on: September 19, 2005, 09:50:21 am
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lol, tps and dragon is NOT slower than fcg, ok? I dont believe i ever said that either of those decks were slower than FCG...i dont even recall talking about either of those decks? fcg wasnt built to race other combo decks, it wast build to play against control decks.
a single fow will destroy your chances of comboing out, so will a duress etc.
I am sorry but those two statements just dont make sense together, either deck loses to control or it was built to beat control? In my time playing the deck the worst matchup for me were decks like 7/10 and TNT just big artifact decks that can block and kill off creatures. Blue control decks have never been a problem with me and as far as combo goes this has never really been a major problem to play against. Most combo decks that i have faced are about 50/50. I think FCG can be a very fast deck and you can also splash some control in it to help some matchups. I am at work right now but i will try and remember to post my list when i get home.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Goblin Sligh help requested
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on: September 16, 2005, 03:46:59 pm
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There is no possible way that R/W goblins is faster than FCG over a couple of matches. You have to change your whole mana base around if you want to play FCG you need ancient tombs, crypts and just mana accels 19 lands is way too many for any FCG deck it should be around 15. I dont know what you are playing against but FCG is alot faster than the R/W(just based upon the list that is up). adding green and foodchain just makes the deck faster and able to combo out turns 2-4 easy, and if you cant combo then you can get alot of goblins out through the searchers and maybe off the draw on gempalm. I have been playing a version of FCG for the past 3 years now, it is my favorite deck to play with because of the creature beatdown and able to combo out fast and race most decks if need be.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: 5-color fish
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on: September 09, 2005, 08:57:10 am
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Synapse sliver isn't bad but the mana is alot for that... I never said synapse was good, i said it wasn't bad, and it costs alot. It was just for drawing which ninja is alot better and so is curiosity. Overall there is no really good sliver besides the ones from tempest Crystalline Sliver Muscle Sliver Talon Sliver (worst of these four) Winged Sliver Heart Sliver Hunter Sliver (depending on meta, can be really good) The rest of the slivers (unless you use overlord and Queen in a fully sliver deck) are just not good, they cost too much and don't do enough. These are the only really useful slivers. the place you play seems alot like the store i used to play at. If there are alot of creature decks and not alot of Tier 1 vintage decks then you should maybe think about Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice. These guys can be sick with card drawing and creature control. Standstill will not be the best if there are alot of factories running around, Jitte can take care of them and help you win esp with flying slivers overhead. As far as running red in the deck do you just not own the red duals? or don't want to? you could run the R/G or R/U instead of mines.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: 5-color fish
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on: September 08, 2005, 03:32:20 pm
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The slivers you have in the deck just dont look good (some of them)
"3x Hibernation Sliver 3x Victual Sliver 1x Acidic Sliver"
you should take them out. Add winged sliver since you need your slivers to get around some blockers. Synapse sliver isnt bad but the mana is alot for that...maybe curiosities? Ninja of the deep hour may not be bad just to get some draw into the deck. I would also add standstills to it. You have the aether vials for it, and most of your guys are going to be at two.
Not to sure about having black in the deck at all, duress is great but you dont want to stretch your deck out try and stay with 4 colors at most.
Overall there is no really good sliver besides the ones from tempest and they all cost one colorless and a colored mana.
good luck
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Budget Food Chain Goblins
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on: August 24, 2005, 09:14:39 am
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for the alt kill with the sharpshooter. What you need is a couple of commanders with the sharpshooter out, when you combo out and have all your gobs in play just off the mana generated by the ringleaders (can only be used to cast creatures). you have lets say 3 commanders in and there for 9 gob tokens. you sac those tokens to the prospector for a Red mana (tokens hit the graveyard and get removed, but they do hit for a second therefore untapping anything that triggers off that ability). Then you hit them with the sharpshooter, and keep doing that. I dont know the exact numbers you need but that is how it works. Just remember foodchain removes creatures from game, they dont go to graveyard, so you cant untap the sharpshooter with foodchain.
It is fun to play around with what you can do with the sharpshooter and other combos, weenie decks just make you so happy when you sit down across from them with 2 sharpshooters out.
good luck
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Budget Food Chain Goblins
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on: August 23, 2005, 12:53:05 pm
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Other things I would change, remove a siege-gang for kiki-jiki. He's retarded in the deck, if he gets in play you can do so many abusive things its not fair. (especially if your opponents let you copy their creatures!) Kiki does not allow you to copy anything but your own creatures, but i have played with him, the cast cost is kinda rough but he is good if you still have more goblins coming out for the combo and are out of ringleaders. Or, if you do cast him without combo he is also just good to have an extra anything in the deck for the most part. Also I would advise against playing a forest, solely for the fact that it doesn't make R. as far as the forest goes it is to help with the mono-blue or any deck that is going to waste your tiaga. i think the last thing you would want is to only have non-basics out against most T1 decks. it is only to fetch and sometimes you do get caught with it and you need a red but hey that is life. for the deck there are just cards you need four of and ringleader is one of them so i agree with mark_story on that, and i think most foodchain players would agree. another non-green card that could be used to finish someone off is Fling, just throw your piledrivers at them and that will hurt twice as much. (other than berserk since it is mostly off-color) good luck with the build
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Budget Food Chain Goblins
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on: August 21, 2005, 10:24:50 am
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I never usually hard cast a ringleader, the only thing they are good for is the draw and then sacking it for 5 mana. sometimes in bad games you have to hard cast it when you need better/cheaper goblins in your hand. the matron is not great but it is a searcher for the missing piece of goblin when you need it. but as far as your question goes on ringleader he is a dead draw for most situations. Did your proxie power? do your tournies not proxy? and the crypt? Seathing song is not great but i have seen some people play with it but not in Type 1 or at least in the better foodchain decks.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Budget Food Chain Goblins
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on: August 19, 2005, 02:09:02 pm
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Are proxies allowed in your tourneys?
as far as what do take out you should really start and take out some of the lands, you have 23 lands. that is way too much for goblins. take out the karp forest and depending on your meta wastelands as well. you could play with some but you objective is to win fast. and in place of the wastelands put a forest and 2 mountains.try gemstone mines as well for the wastes but you do need one forest to be fetched if you are afraid of wastes(whatever you feel is better for you). you should be playing with 21-23 mana sources and about 15-17 lands. The ESGs are good only if you cant proxie power and the only power you need are 2 moxen and a lotus. if you can put in a mana crypt (speed).
for creature base, you have too many gempalms. drop that down to 1 or 2. you can now add your lackeys since you took out lands as well. that is the standard creature base. I do not run a sharpshooter or a siege-gang (my store does not need it), i am looking more into putting the sharpshooter back in.
As for answers, i run two maindecked Red blasts and have for the past 2 years, i was really afraid of blue. I also run 1-2 berserks depending on what i think will be at a tourney, you have the green and the best creature for it just in case you need a quick unseen win. a nice 26/2 trample pro blue goblin running around makes you feel good and the person you are playing just stare. i will post my list(i am at work right now so i dont have it)
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: U/W Vial Fish
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on: August 19, 2005, 08:25:34 am
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I would have to say that the first thing i notice is that you are only playing with 9 proxies? Time walk is huge in fish, that should be your tenth proxie. These are some of the changes i can see making or at least looking harder at:
-2 Swords -2 Wayfarer -2 True believer -2 Conclave -4 Spiketails -1 Missdirection
+3 Rootwater Thiefs +2 Waterfront Bouncers +2 Seal of removal (or other similiar spells) +3 Mana Leaks +1 Stifle mainboarded(or keep the missdirection) +1 Vail +1 Timewalk
Rootwater Thiefs are huge, you can hurt alot of decks, yes it is mana heavy to activate all the abilities, but if you are playing with Jitte and other removal spells you will hopefully be able to get through sometimes without having to make him flying. To go through you oppenents library is one of the best abilities. This card can take down oath and combo decks. It can really hurt most decks in the format. The only ones that are not really hurt by this card are pure aggro decks. As for the rest of my suggestions they have been mostly explained already.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: t1 decklist
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on: August 18, 2005, 09:58:44 am
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first i have to say that i agree with RVS all the cards they have named are better (chalice, waterfront bouncer etc..) My friend has built a version of this deck and he runs Rootwater Thiefs and they are huge when you start taking control of the game, just a thought you might want to look into.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: New player, 5 proxy tourney - What's competative?
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on: August 18, 2005, 09:41:27 am
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If you have everything else that you need for most decks, then Foodchain Goblins is a really good budget build and you can proxy 2 moxes a lotus and a crypt with something else that you fill in as needed. Fish is always good depending on your meta at the tourney you want to play in. Is is a competative meta? what are you going to see there do you know? I would give you my list of foodchain but i am at work and dont have access to it.
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