I'm really happy about this, especially about Lauer's closing statement from his article:

I think the title "M11 Is Amazing in Vintage" is a little much, don't you?

Most of the cards are fringe at best. The only reason we are even looking at Preordain is because of the major shafting turn-you-into-Highlander treatment that Vintage has received courtesy of our good friends at WotC. I guess I could write them a letter and thank them for printing a crappier version of the 1cc blue cantrips they needlessly restricted, which if proven to be useful they will restrict anyway.

I like Leyline of Sanctity, seems like it might be useful.
Stormtide Leviathan is cool, cheaper than Blazing Archon and blue.
I'm still waiting for a proper 3cc black 5/5. Phylactery Lich is a bit narrow unfortunately but it might be a decent plan B for some combo decks (like Phyrexian Negators back in the day). .

This card looks terrible for Vintage and Legacy, which is good. I don't have to fork out tons of cash for a set of mythics...

I really don't care about original intent or whatever you want to call it, the bottom line is that Vintage has effectively lost another option for good. There is no upside here, Illusionary Mask is useless now, and we get nothing in return.

It would not have killed WotC to leave the use of Illusionary Mask an artifact's activated ability. Paying colored mana is fine, it weakens the card but does not kill it. Making the ability counterable is both confusing and completely castrates the card. Why?

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but the June 2009 unrestriction thread is a little too old to post in.

Back when Crop Rotation, Enlightened Tutor, Entomb and Grim Monolith were unrestricted we had all the usual talk around here. "X" was going to be too good, "X" will lead to more diversity, "X" will give deck X better tools to fight the top deck, "X" is degenerate when combined with "card". What ended up happening was quite different, because NOTHING happened. All four of the cards that were unrestricted were garbage IMO and it seems like the community wholeheartedly agrees given tournament data.

The "blue shell" deck is still the top dog, the restriction of Thirst for Knowledge did not really accomplish much. Half the top 8 of this years Gen Con was the blue-based restricted list decks (although one of them switched out Drains for removal spells). The "Steel City Vault" deck actually proves that if Mana Drain was actually restricted, the same decks would still be the best.

It seems obvious that these restrictions are going nowhere and that the unrestriction of garbage (Crop Rotation, Dream Halls, Mind Twist, etc.), while a step in the right direction, does not affect the tournament scene at all.

Vintage is already a crazy format, we should be allowed to have as many of our toys as possible. Why doesn't WotC realize that this is where the most powerful strategies/interactions end up facing one another. The more of them that are available, the more variety we will have.

Ask yourself this, what can further restrictions in this format accomplish? After examining the Top 8 data for the past 2 months, it is evident that they no longer have any real effect. They cause a few cards to be shuffled around here and there, but everything remains the same. Even if EVERYTHING except Force of Will was restricted, decks like Steel City Vault and Tezzeret would still be able to function and would continue to dominate this format.

What a shame, now Illusionary Mask is useless  

Since when can you "counter" the activated ability of an artifact...
Opponent: activate Time Vault
Me: Mana Drain?

Although I don't think Illusionary Mask would ever have been good enough to see real Vintage play, I was hoping it would someday be Legacy legal. Now it doesn't really matter, since it is no longer playable anywhere.

GAT and Long were the best, with GAT only losing to Long and Long only losing to Flash. - I hope this is not violating any "premium" rule (if it is, let me know and I will remove it).

It was a cool article, and it would be awesome if the Vintage field was comprised of most of these decks instead of what we have now. Everything but Long with 4 LED would be a fine.

It is a shame that Vintage decks no longer have any IDENTITY. When watching the stream of the champs games, the announcers were always mystified by what the hell to call all of the blue decks. They would be like "I don't know what this is, I guess it's Tezz, let me read the list...(reads half the restricted list + 4 Force of Will)". Really sad. Stax was at least identifiable.

No Gifts deck, no Gush deck, no Oath deck, no Flash deck, just "1 Ancestral Recall, 1 Brainstorm, 1 Time Vault, 1 Voltaic Key, blah..."

Tha Gunslinga / Troy_Costisick - Yeah, I am well aware that the deck is built for VINTAGE. I am only expressing disdain for this type of deck. It is mostly comprised of bad cards by Vintage standards, with the hopes of landing that early Null Rod / on-the-play CotV. This format used to be about the best strategies competing against each other, now it is about almost entirely restricted list jigsaw puzzle decks vs. hate decks.

I honestly can't see how playing something like this would draw someone to play Vintage. It helps those who are broke I guess, but why play a "Beatz" deck here when you can have a better time doing it in another format, which will present you with more options and strategic gameplay. There is also the "I just crushed that guys $5k deck with this pile" wow factor, but that doesn't seem like enough of an incentive.

Nice article. Although it does make sad to see how nerfed the Vintage format is. This deck would get crushed by all of my Legacy decks. So much for the power of Vintage...

Just in case some people here don't visit the legacy boards:

Great stuff Vroman. I grew up shooting inanimate objects for fun. But now I live in California and those days are over 

First you say this:


Then you say this:


I must have missed something, how would restricting Mana Drain lead to deck diversity? Take a look at your average Tezz deck, it looks like a Highlander deck as it is.

Have you tested out Su-chi? That gets much better after M10.

This. How does WotC think they can achieve diversity when we have this:

25 Restricted Cards
14 Lands
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Darksteel Colossus / Inkwell Leviathan
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Voltaic Key

TOTAL = 50

I'm glad WotC took the time to address why they made changes. Definitely a step in the right direction, much better than before.

The problem with their current strategy lies with how little effect the restriction of blue cards has now. -3 Thirst will not lead to any real change. You can stick almost anything that isn't garbage in there and the loss becomes negligible (ie. mostly Thoughtcast, but Impulse and Strategic Planning could be used too). So Tezz decks don't really take much of a hit from this (tutoring is also effective for their strategy), but Slaver and Bomberman get reamed.

I don't think TfK rise in usage had anything to do with Time Vault or Tezzeret. It didn't magically get better, everything that WAS better was removed, so it became the go-to draw spell.

Nephtis said it best:


After the June 2008 restrictions, I knew Thirst for Knowledge was next. I guess this is the "Lauer Cycle"... garbage  

Although I do believe this cycle is coming to an end. Most Tezz decks were already just a bunch of restricted cards. WotC can barely affect the deck through restrictions anymore. We will probably see more Remora/Confidant versions or maybe they will use Thoughtcast. No room for any real change though, more than 2/3 of the deck is already set in stone.

I'm glad that some people are optimistic about the cards that were unrestricted, hopefully they will make a difference. I personally doubt it though, Enlightened Tutor, Grim Monolith and Entomb are not really good cards to begin with, hopefully they will find their place. At the very least casual players can use them freely now, go Reanimator!

Crop Rotation is the only interesting card, but I don't see how it can have a profound impact. Most of the best performing Workshop decks this year have been Mono-brown or Red, maybe 5c Stax can finally benefit. But then we are left with the age old Worshop problem: 1cc spells vs. Chalice of the Void.

I'm glad to see 4 cards unrestricted. I doubt they will have much of an impact, but it is a step in the right direction.

Restricting Thirst for Knowledge really sucks though. It seems to indicate that the DCI will in fact not be unrestricting any of the blue cards they have axed in the past year or so. That means that there will be no diversity within the blue archetypes, no engines to compete against each other. This restriction will amount to "Blue Shell - 3 Thirst for Knowledge", big f'n whoop

Mentioned within the article was the whole "Lauer era" and "Buehler era" of Vintage. There really is no comparison, Buehler actually played Vintage, posted on our boards, he knew what was going on, he was in touch with this community. Vintage thrived as a result. I don't have anything kind to say about the direction Mr. Lauer has taken this format, so I will just leave it at that...

Off topic, I'm a big Street Fighter II fan, nice to see you quote David Sirlin. I guess I will modify my sig thanks to you

Most of the changes are just "meh". The combat damage one is the only one that irks me a bit, since all of the "tricks" are gone.

Something all of you have failed to realize is that Su-Chi is now a badass!!! Expect it to be restricted soon, your puny Morphlings will no longer be able to stop me 

I honestly don't think restriction(s) would make any difference at this point. I don't want to see anything restricted, but if hypothetically speaking, something got the axe (Mana Drain or Thirst for Knowledge), would that really change anything? Probably not.

Only through the introduction of more viable strategies (unrestrictions or new printings) will we have an actual metagame, instead of Drains vs. other irrelevant junk.

Aside: Thanks Steve for the articles you keep writing. They contain the only thing that seems to be worth discussing about Vintage these days.

Basically, a year ago Vintage was good (two competing engines, diverse field) and now (post June 20th) Vintage is not good (half the field = Drains, no diversity, Highlander decks). Steve is advocating for the unrestriction of cards that will help to diversify this stale format (not trash like Grim Monolith), hopefully he/the community will succeed. Until that happens, I will continue to focus on the better/more interesting eternal format.

Does anyone think that WotC is intentionally killing Vintage?

IMO, this also has to do with how they die (technique aside). Yoda and Obi-wan were in full control when their time came, they could apply their knowledge of the force to become one with it immediately upon losing their physical self. Yoda and Obi-wan were not killed either.

The Jedi that lie broken on the battlefield were actually killed by something (Qui-gon, Vader, etc.). It is kind of hard to concentrate when you are getting impaled by Darth Maul...

Not all Landstill decks look like Mattiuzzo's version, many of them ran Brainstorm. The majority of Fish decks ran Brainstorm as well. It seems like you are focusing on my use of the word "all". How about if I change "all" to "the vast majority", would that be more to your liking? Something else to keep in mind is that WGD and Landstill are irrelevant in Vintage. Who cares if they are pleased that Brainstorm is gone, no one is playing those decks anyway.


Fish decks are not always the "beatdown". Without Brainstorm, they don't have the ability to produce the "right" disruption or threat as consistently, meanwhile decks that are just packed with restricted cards have a better chance of just doing something broken while the Fish deck sits there with a Null Rod when I have Tinker/Darksteel Colossus or a Chalice of the Void when I have Tezz or Vault/Key in play. Let's not forget about the problems Oath decks face now.

IMO, decks that are "Restricted List (UB + Art)" are less affected by losing something like Brainstorm than other candidates. In fact, I don't think they can be affected via restrictions anymore. The "blue shell" is already mostly just a bunch of 1-ofs.

In any case, I am just here to say that:

- All of the restrictions that took place last year are/were lame.
- Restricting something now would be lame.

I don't get what you are saying here. All of the decks he mentioned used Brainstorm, with the exception of WGD. The loss of Brainstorm hurt lower curve decks (Fish and Oath variants) more than higher curve decks (Drain variants) IMHO.


I completely agree with bluemage55, widen my options. Any restriction at this point will just cause a slight adjustment to the current "blue shell".


TK is an excellent player, no question about it, but he did not pick up a deck "based around other cards". He went with an anti-Tezz/Drain/Vault/Key deck. Did you take a look at his list? Prison deck with Chalice + Null Rod main and 4 ANCIENT GRUDGES sideboarded.

I don't know about EVERYONE else winning with Gush decks, that is reaching a little. It is clear that skill was what was winning. The 2k7 Vintage Champs was a Gush on Gush finals, but it was a Shay vs. Menendian final, two of the most well-known and respected Vintage players. There is no way we should be complaining about that. A problem would have been if unknown vs. unknown faced off in the finals with hideously broken decks. That was not the case.

Bringing Rich up does not help your point, he played Gush decks almost exclusively, he is an expert. It only makes sense that he would do well. Another thing to remember is that Vintage is filled with the flavor of the week players, and that is something to take into account when seeing isolated results like SCG Indy.

I don't consider discussions on the welfare of the format b*tch*ng, I consider the advocation for restriction of whatever every 3-4 months b*tch*ng. I can't see how you can consider this type of discussion constructive, this type of thread comes up every 2 weeks, "What should be restrict to fix the format? blah, blah" or "Why is there no diversity?". Posts like mine are not the reason B&R discussions have been problematic in the past, the REASON B&R discussions are problematic is that there is no objectivity here. With all due respect, the tournament data should be consulted when restricting something, not my personal likes and dislikes or yours or some other persons "gut" feeling. Gush decks are 25% of the metagame, how is that a problem. Trinisphere decks are 10% of Top 8 and are not even considered the best deck, how was that a problem. Just look at the way the banned lists are generally handled in Type 2 and Extended, that is all I want for Vintage (and Legacy).

Also, you actually are recalling incorrectly, I have not shown displeasure with this format over the past 3-4 years, I have shown displeasure with this format for approximately 7 months. I have always been a staunch supporter of Vintage in my area, I have been playing Vintage avidly for over ten years, but have been extremely displeased with Vintage since June 20th. I have the same position JACO has, I'm just not as calm as he is.

I don't understand how the Gush/Flash era can be considered stale either. We had twice as much variety as we do now and a very dynamic metagame (consult the first half of Steve's 2008 Year in Review at WotC site). The stint of about 8 or so years of Keeper/The Deck, now that was stale.

I think it is funny that there are a lot of people saying that Mana Drain is dominant, blah, blah, blah. Couple of things:

1) I agree with forests failed you, the actual power of these so-called Tezz decks comes from Time Vault / Voltaic Key, the rest of the deck is just Control Slaver 1.5. I don't think restrictions will do much of anything anymore. Every noob I have ever come across has always thought that Vintage was just "restricted list + mana" deck, I always told them they were wrong, but now all I can tell them is that they are almost correct, Vintage = restricted list (blue, black and artifacts only) + mana.

2) If people had not been little b*tc*es before, crying for the restriction of EVERYTHING that was remotely useful in this format (Trinisphere, Gifts Ungiven, Fact or Fiction, Flash, Brainstorm, Gush, etc.), we would have a better format today. Of course Mana Drain is the best now, everything that was competitive has been restricted. Looks like Vintage is "Restrict everything until Mana Drain is the best, then restrict Mana Drain".

I hope we see NO RESTRICTIONS for a LONG TIME, and UNRESTRICTIONS NOW!

Once again, I would like to reiterate how much I loathe the current state of this format (are you reading any of this WotC?).

How about we go back to the pre-June 20th B/R list (add Merchant Scroll, remove Gifts Ungiven, Fact or Fiction, Grim Monolith, Enlightened Tutor and Crap Rotation) and go from there...

I'm positive Enlightened Tutor could be unrestricted. I just don't think it is strong enough to cause any problems in Vintage. Although there are a lot of good things it could get (Necropotence, Black Lotus), it would not create any unfairness. The fact that it is WHITE means it would be just fine.

If you wanted to play those decks, you would have to buy some of those cards. Not buying dual lands is part of the problem created by proxies. I can understand the problem presented by the "Power 9", but why should Vintage be free when no other format is? You have to buy money cards to play Extended and Standard.

This leads us back to investing in Vintage, if you have invested more in something you are less likely to quit. We are losing players because everyone that chooses to play Vintage with just proxies (those that are not interested in ever buying the actual cards) is not someone the community can count on or expect to be there a month/year from now.

The "problem" with all eternal formats will forever be that the color blue has gotten the lion's share of the best cards. This "capped list" limits a group of cards, but the shells resulting from the non-capped cards will favor the construction of a mostly blue based deck (the "blue shell"). If you build an LED fueled madness deck or a Reanimator deck, what are the chances that they will be better than my "blue shell" + 4 Ancestral Recall deck? I honestly can't see that happening, maybe if there was a lower density of good blue cards. What 4 of on that list will be more powerful / all around useful than 4 Ancestral Recall? A deck full of madness creatures, clunky reanimation pieces or artifacts that don't do much on their own isn't going to beat a consistent, powerful blue deck with great defensive and offensive capabilities, not to mention a ridiculous card advantage engine.

The ideal situation for Vintage is to have options, that means less cards on the restricted list. Everyone who plays this format should accept the fact that a blue deck of some sort will always be one of the top decks in Vintage. Lets face it, WotC is not going to print Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Mana Drain, Force of Will, Tinker, (list 20 more blue cards...), Timetwister, etc. in a different color anytime soon. It would be nice however to play Gush decks vs. Flash decks vs. Gifts Ungiven decks vs. Fact or Fiction decks vs. Workshop (with Trinisphere of course) decks vs. etc.

Sliver aggro doesn't usually work, but we have had cheap decks that could compete in the past. Usually, there is always an outcry from many of the people who already own power because they got mopped up by a "cheap" deck. Back when Necro was legal as a 4 of (before it was used as a combo engine), many of the Keeper players would whine when they got rolled by a cheap deck, hell, they would whine about Price of Progress, Back to Basics (I'm looking at you Mr. Tan) and Blood Moon.

Having Gush and Flash were great for the environment, you COULD compete without tons of cash. Of course the decks were better with power, but they could still be effective without it and their presence allowed other decks that preyed on their weaknesses to exist. Goblins was actually playable. The way things are structured now, you absolutely NEED all of the money cards to compete.

Other formats also evolve to keep up with the times (refer to the first half of Steve's "2008 Year in Review" article on WotC's website for an example of this, before the whole June 20th fiasco). Apparently, we don't need to evolve in Vintage, we can just do a lot of crying until WotC restricts everything and our 4 Mana Drain deck is perfectly viable again. Why do these so-called pillars of Vintage have to be Rituals / Drains / Workshops? What is the problem with it being Flash / Gush / Workshops or something else?