@ Malhavoc: Hum, just a little point: tendrils can only target players, not creatures... although I admit having done this mistake once, which cost me the game.

By the way - even if this deviates a bit from the current discussion - what has been your thought on splashing red ?
For me, it has not proved stellar so far... Wheel is really nice and much better than the Frantic Search it has replaced in my build, but sometimes I have it and no fetchland/red, and there are also times where I feel more vulnerable to wastelands.
The same way, REB+ Pyro alow lots of Gifts Ungiven goodness, but do not entirely make up for the weaker mana base.
Therefore I do not know if the strengh of the wheel and the red sideboard goodies is worth the weakening...

@snoop: with gifts, you can for example get  REB,pyroblast,duress,FoW (after side against control); or you can get vampiric, demonic, mystical, will, or will, lotus, ritual, tral, or just some mana, or will + 3 bombs...

That was exactly what I was thinking
Anyway I think I might rather just have either 1 pyro or 1 REB in my side to wish for, and maybe play another MisD or a Scrying instead of the second one, that would be easier to bring main deck against control... or maybe another stifle to help against combo.

This kind of configuration seems really nice, and I will definitively give it a try...
Still, against control (and wastelands, obviously), does your badland (which is your only reliable red source, as you only randomly get lotus, petal or ruby) stay on the table long enough for you to use pyroblast/REB ?
It seems perfect for a one-shot use, i.e. getting R for casting a Wheel on the spot, but it seems risky to me to rely on it for playing reactively a REB or pyro...

@ Malhavoc: International posting is really good, and I think lots of people miss good opportunities to learn more when they only stick to one forum

As for the chain of vapor , it is true that I have not yet  have encountered problems that I could not solve with a DC; hence the 2 rebuilds, never dead as they also up the storm count, or at least cycle. Yet, with Oath getting big, being able to bounce a big angel/spirit might be nice.
Still, wouldn't echoing truth be better ? It can't be used to up your storm count by bouncing your moxen, but it can deal with angel/soldier/spirit tokens all at once, and help you get rid of a crippling chalice for one...

Anyway, playing with DC maindeck has been really nice, but still, I often find myself playing Tinker, and wondering wether to go the (slow) DC beatdown route, or the faster but somehow less secure Jar route... Maybe by putting the DC in the side, and replacing it with a wish I might streamline my strategic options game 1, and make decisions easier. This is definitely something I will test, although I am prejudiced against the wish.

As for the Wheel route, I might try it, as you suggest, just by taking out the Frantic Search, and going from 4 deltas 1 strand 2 islands 2 swamps to 4 deltas 1 bloodstained mire 2 islands 1 swamp 1 badland.
Or maybe a volcanic island instead of a badland ?

hmm, I have taken another route it seems... I do not play cunning wish main, and so as to have access to an other main deck win condition, I play the colossus maindeck.
My board is:
4 hydroblast
2 MisD
2 Scrying
3 stifle
2 hurkyl's recall
2 echoing truth
I do not play chain of vapor maindeck, but 2 rebuilds instead. Stifle seemed to me better than cranial against the mirror/combo; and it seemed not very likely that tog would allow me to play cranial...
I do not splash red, but I must admit that I would be pleased to turn my Frantic Search into a Wheel of fortune.
I am also wondering wether Fact or Fiction and/or Gifts Ungiven could take the slot of some scryings/MisDs. Is the proactive (scrying) or the reactive (MisD) the best way to tackle control... that is something I still have to figure.
By the way, I usually brainstorm turn 1, so it seems that the Grids, which would take the slot of the Scryings, would mainly cause problems for tutoring.
The last point I am testing is wether the Frantic search could be left out for a Lim Dul's vault. The vault is maybe a bit slow, and the Search often solves mana color problems... Did you test those two cards ?

Plus, the slower combo decks (TPS) will nearly always be able to bounce your angel when they go off...
So in the end, either you will be dead before bringing Plats to the board, or it will be useless, as when your opponent will have reduced you to 0 lives and have gained 25 more, he will just have to find a random artifact bounce (if he hasn't yet done so while comboing).
By the way, Phele, did you test Defense Grid as a side card against control in TPS ? I am wondering wether to play this or MisD/Eot draw (scryings)...

Against Stax, you'd better run more bounce, for if they go first, you might never be able to counter their stuff with annul, and I'm not even talking about playing a matrix...
What you need there is Force of Will, basic lands and 2cc+3cc mass bounce, to bounce their stuff end of turn and then combo on your turn.
[edit] By the way, just countering their first 3sphere/chalice is far from winning you the game... It just gives you one (or two if you are lucky) turns to set up your combo, but they can as well play a welder the same turn they played their chalice/sphere, or just replay another chalice/sphere their following turn, which you obviously won't be able to counter.

Well, the guys that might help organize it are from Swindon, but the events would more likely take place in Bristol.
Anyway, if something is to be set up, it will surely be advertised here on TMD.

Julien

Well, it was decided and set up during the Saturday afternoon. Anyway, seeing that there some Vintage players in the UK, it seems that tournaments might be set up in the near future, possibly first as side events of big T2/limited tournaments, surely around Bristol

How much will parking fee + Gencon entrance amount to ?
Do you know if lots of type 1 cards traders will be present ( or was it the case the previous years) ? If so what day would be better for trading ?
Thanks for answering all those questions

Maybe a better answer for a workshop - filled metagame would be to splash green for oxidize...
As many have said before, Fish is a metagame deck, and has to adapt to it. Just swapping two cards won't be enough; the whole deck needs to be reshaped.

Has any of you tried Read the Runes in Control Slaver ? So far, it has been quite useful to me, allowing me to use my drain mana to improve the quality of my hand while dropping some artifacts in the grave, or sacrifying tapped mana vaults or pentavite tokens.

Don't worry Toad, I'll be back in 2005 to Top 8 in Clichy with my uber -powerfull Snakeslaver deck !  
MarkPharaoh: Thanks, I'll PM them.

Currently resident in Frenchieland, I will soon move to England (between Bristol and Oxford, to be more precise).
I was wondering wether there was any active type one community there... If any of you know a little on this subject could you please help me?
Thanks,

Didor

I though about oxidize, but the green mana needed seemed hard to find; it would have required cutting red, wich is the main color of my sideboard ( welder, REBs...).
On the other hand, overload seems just fine, I'm going to test it, thank you jpmeyer.

Maybe, but this is basically an aggro deck, so having to keep one card in hand and one blue open doesn't really fit the theme... I'd rather side in some artifact removal.

After some testing, it seems to me that this deck needs a strong sideboard in order to fight both those few decks using null rod and those using welders ( wich by the way are also sporting groilla shaman, another threat for the ravager affinity player).
I've tried some artifact distruction to take care of the rods, and fire/ice to take care of shaman/welders; siding welders might also be something to take into account.
So far, what would you all suggest to improve this deck's sideboard ?

I will surely remove the tog from my board for a FoF or a scrying (yet to decide   )...
Concerning BeB, it is for sure randomly useful and quite, versatile but I have yet been nearly always able to do without it, and most of all, I wouldn't know what to remove for it.

jpmeyer: yeah, you're right... I was thinking of bouncing as a versatile answer to anything, but I already have deed, and a wishable Diabolic Edict to take care of a potential blocker if no green mana is available (under a blood moon for example).
So it seems that BeB>bounce, and that in the end, BeB, though versatile, might not be necessary.

Furthermore, I lack sideboard space... my board is currently:

3 Back to Basics
3 Coffin Purge
1 Berserk
1 Deed
1 Naturalize
1 Oxidize
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Duress ( 3 maindeck)
1 Deep Analysis ( 2 maindeck)
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Psychatog

I'd like to fit in some wishable draw, but don't know what to take out...

Well, as I am playing with 3 islands and 1 swamp maindeck, I sometimes let Bmoon resolve and win anyway.
But I was thinking that maybe some bounce could take BeB's place in the sideboard...

to jpmeyer: So you would rather have no tog in the board, but a FoF or a Scrying instead? As a side note, do you find Blue Elemental Blast to be really useful ?

Hulk often tries to combo out its oponent, mostly  when playing against prison or aggro. Therefore, having a 4th tog when facing these matchups seems rather a good option, enabling a faster combo.
I'm currently testing a U/g/b version sporting this sideboarded tog. However, to fit him in, it I had to give up on wishable draw (either Skeletal scrying or Fact or Fiction ).
So, do you think that the ability to use the 4-tog plan is worth the lack of wishable draw in hulk ?

Would Ground Seal be efficient against stax ?
If so, it might be worth including, as it also hoses dragon and TnT...

To jpmeyer : would hurkyl's recall be of any use in this matchup ? Do you think uping the number of sideboard oxidize/naturalize to 4 (1 naturalize+ 3 oxidize for example ) would be useful if I expect to face lots of workshops ?

A little off-topic, but without stifle in the board, what would you all board in to deal with stax and the other prison matchups when playing a U/G/B Tog build ?

So, for sure, tog doesn't need Stifle maindeck... but what about the sideboard ? Currently, I'm playing a 2 Deep Analysis, 3 Duress, 2 Pernicious Deed maindeck (without red), and here is my sideboard:

3 Back To Basics
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Deep Analysis
1 Berserk
1 COFFIN PURGE
3 STIFLE
1 Oxidize
2 Naturalize
1 Smother

It has so far been good to me, but I'm still wondering wether 1 purge / 3 stifle would be better than 3 purge / 1 stifle ...

I have come to the same conclusion: with Mindslaver decks around, Stifle is strictly superior to Coffin Purge.
Yet, I still run one purge in the board to wich for against welder or madness.

In order to face the current rise of mindslaver decks, which ruin every tog player's day, I' ve been toying with this idea: why couldn't Stifle become a perfect sideboard material?

Stifle could, imho, replace a couple of Coffin Purge: against rector or dragon decks, stifling or purging seem both efficient ways to resist their combo, which purge also did.

Furthermore, stifling an opposing Smokestack ability could give the tog player some more time, and improve the stax matchup.

And much more than purge, Stifle would greatly help avoiding a lethal mindslaving.

So, what do you all think of this ? Could Stifle take the place of Coffin Purge in tog's sideboard ? Is its inclusion really worth tweaking the sideboard ?

I think you can get a list for the deck Morefling was talking about there:
http://www.moxmonkeys.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38
Good luck !