Eight out of Eighteen decks were Vault decks?

mmm kay.

It looks a little rough that your only win conditions are a 1/1 creature and circu lobotomist. Usually people toss a morphling or psychatog into their control decks to provide the coup de grace. Do you usually depend on decking people with Circu?

I saw it too... you definitely weren't being an asshole.

If I were the judge, I would have offered your opponent the choice of which card gets removed for Uba Mask, thereby removing any POSSIBLE advantage you could have gained. It was clear that there was no way the game state was affected because there was no difference which one was drawn.

But... I'm not a judge.

Ok I finally got a chance to do some actually playtesting with this deck (a rarity for me), and I noticed a couple things.

First, I forgot that Oath got errata'd a few years ago to not target. Not only that, but the token generating effect on Orchard DOES target, so True Believer is distinctly bad in the one matchup I had in mind for it when making this list. My first thought for replacing it was Whipcorder. Seems good in general, but it's an activated ability that doesn't work so well under a Suppression Field.

I tested against oath and gifts... it worked quite well against gifts thanks to kataki and root maze, but not so well against oath. I still think FCG is gonna be a rough matchup as well. Best sideboard option I can think of is dumping the suppression fields and null rods and running sword of fire and ice.

The deck will probably never be competitive, but it's fun to play.

Relentless Rats... nothing plays off a turn 1 ritual like a relentless rat.

The nice thing about the white creatures is that they aren't hurt by suppression field. Is anyone concerned by this?

I had the same thought about temple garden and land grant, twiggy... I doubt it, but maybe someone here can clarify it for us. Tithe is nice... I'll have to consider it. Wish I could playtest. It runs into the same problem as land grant, however, since it can be countered and leave you up a creek sometimes... Here's the version I came up with today after putting a little more thought into it:

4x Savannah Lion
3x Jungle Lion
1x Isamaru
3x Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4x True Believer
3x Kataki

4x Rancor
4x Sword to Plowshares

3x Root Maze
3x Choke
2x Null Rod
4x Suppression Field

4x Savannah
9x Plains
3x Forest
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
4x Elvish Spirit Guide

One problem I see: How to best beat FCG? I ran into that 3 times at the last SCG Chicago (3-0 with ninja mask!) Exalted Angel? Worship? Armadillo Cloak? Seriously... I think it's a weak point for the deck that needs an answer, but I'm drawing a blank.

Well at least the 2nd half of this thread has been about how to make the deck take advantage of Suppression Field. That's sort of the central card in my build. Mongrel and rootwalla both suck under a Field. So do most of the cards in Fish. (Meddling Mage is the notable exception)

Why not try a WWg variant? Something like this maybe?

4x Savannah Lions
4x Jungle Lions
2x Kataki
4x True Believer
4x Samurai of the Pale Curtain

4x Suppression Field
3x Null Rod
2x Choke
4x Root Maze
4x Swords
4x Rancor

4x Land Grant
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Savannah
2x Forest
5x Plains
1x Mox Pearl
1x Black Lotus

I see some negative synergy between the Samurai and Rancor, but aren't True Believer and Samurai too good to ignore in this metagame? The creatures are a little slower, but I think they'd make up for it by being a must-answer against certain decks instead of just a weenie that can be ignored for a few turns while they focus on setting up their win.

But I can get away with only one Mask because of Rector. I'd have to run multiple true believers to make it effective.

HOWEVER... vialing in a rector and saccing it to my starlit sanctum (it's actually great that he's a cleric) would be kind of awsome.

Living wish means running green. I think black is too important. Death wish isn't bad in this deck though.

yeah platinum angel's a bitch too... oh well. Guess I'll play ninja mask again. Or maybe just run dragon and hope no one is ready for it. I had hoped I could make this work, but I think the control slaver matchup is just too difficult.

Thanks for the advice.

I'm sorry, Jacob... I *just now* realized that you didn't mean to use unspeakable symbol to pump up creatures and attack with them... I could pump a cleric and sac it to starlit sanctum. This does seem better than Test of Endurance.

Bargain... now how did I forget that one? Thanks! I could use unspeakable symbol, but test of endurance is better. Form of the Dragon serves a different function since it allows me to just rector straight for an enchantment that wins against several decks.

The reason this is better than illusions/donate is because it's actually a combo deck and not a control deck. This can have a trillion life on turn 2... that buys a LOT of time. I'm already aware of the weakness the deck has against a couple combo decks, and I brought that up in the main post. Last time I went to SCG Chicago, I never saw one of these combo decks, but I did see stax, CS, oath, and FCG. I think this deck has game against each of these.

You do bring up a good point about CS hitting the slaver lock on me. I wonder what the best way to stop that would be...

I figure in the stax-heavy metagame of the midwest, some version of Life.dec might be playable. I've always had fun with it, and I'd like to give it a shot... possibly at SCG Chicago next month. I don't have the time to do much competitive playtesting, so if anyone has any advice on how to make this deck work, it would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the decklist I've sketched out so far:

Combo:
4x Daru Spiritualist
3x Task Force
4x Nomad En-kor
3x Shaman En-kor
4x Worthy Cause
1x Animal Boneyard

Protection:
4x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy

Search:
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Death Wish
1x Vampiric Tutor
4x Academy Rector

Kill:
1x Test of Endurance
1x Form of the Dragon

Mana:
5x Moxen
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
4x Scrubland
4x Swamp
3x Starlit Sanctum
6x Plains

Explanation:

The combo is an old one. Use the en-kor's ability to repeatedly target Daru Spiritualist or Task Force so that the toughness becomes an ungodly number. Then sacrifice the creature to Worthy Cause, Starlit Sanctum, or Animal Boneyard in order to gain that much life. Once that happens, it's all over but the crying for many decks.

I chose to go with White/Black build in order to add tutors and hand disruption. Death Wish is a nice way to go get a win condition from the sideboard after you combo out. I think Neverending Torment might be fun if the test of endurance route doesn't work. I will probably devote only two or so slots to wish targets in order to ensure a win after my life gain. It is easier to put a couple alternative win conditions in the sideboard than to waste maindeck slots on them.

Academy Rector is probably the most controversial slot on the deck. It allows me to devote only one slot each to Animal Boneyard and Test of Endurance. It's a cleric, and it can be sacced to Worthy Cause, Starlit Sanctum, or Cabal Therapy. I think Form of the Dragon will make a nice silver bullet against several decks (I'm thinking fish), but I haven't added any other enchantments to the maindeck. I thought of a single Serenity, Rule of Law, or Ivory Mask. Any suggestions here would be great.

Clearly this deck is not Tier 1, but it has surprise factor, and can go off quickly. Since I find most Smokestack/Mana Drain decks tedious to play, I am looking for an unanticipated combo. (Seriously... if anyone's going to plan for Life.dec, I'll see you in the X-2 brackets)

What do you think? Should I just play Dragon? Is there a way to make this effective in a Workshop heavy metagame?

Well it's a UBg control deck that's not as good as psychatog... that's my first thought.

But this is the newbie forum! Bad combos are played for their own sake! So here's my next thought: You need fastbond to win. That's the key. Your combo is dependant on a restricted card. This presents two problems: 1) how to find fastbond? and 2) How to get it to resolve?

To solve the first problem, you need more tutors/card draw. If you are using proxies (I see power...) add in one Imperial Seal once it becomes legal. Consultation, Spoils of the Vault, and tainted pact are all a problem since you only have one target card. Maybe Impulse? Definitely Fact or Fiction. Probably Accumulated Knowledge since you're already running intuition.

I'd suggest cutting any counterspells that you can't cast for free since you're really going to want to try to get your combo. (or else what's the point?) Duress is your friend since it will help your fastbond resolve. Also think about Yawgmoth's Will and Regrowth (or eternal witness? I dunno) to help you get your fastbond BACK if it gets countered.

Just brainstorming with my fingers... Hope this helps some, but don't expect to win Chicago with it

I suppose I *could* play normal fish... and I could also pull out fully powered ubastax. I think you missed the line that this was supposed to be played for fun. That doesn't mean it can't be good, which is why I was asking (in the newbie forum, no less) whether brainstorm, ninja, or synapse sliver would be the best fit for adding card drawing to the deck.

I will be taking this to a weekly local tournament, and I'll probably do quite well with it, but comparing my sliver deck to gifts ungiven is a waste of time. I thought it would be fun to post in the newbie forum since most of the T1 tournaments I play in are local 5 proxy deals with lots of kids.

hibernation and victual slivers aren't good, but synapse is?

If I were going to cut any color it would be red (since I have one red card and no red mana aside from gemstone... plus check the moxes). I originally had winged sliver, but it made way for other slivers that did cooler stuff. I really don't need flying, and I couldn't cut another hibernation or victual. Maybe I'll give my lonely acidic sliver wings.

On Standstill: They're great assuming an aether vial, but otherwise silvers kind of need to keep dropping creatures. I'm also not using mishra's factory, which is kind of popular in my area. I think a deck needs to be designed around standstill, and this one isn't.

To start with, here's the decklist:

4x duress
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
4x Aether Vial

1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
3x Gemstone Mine
3x Tropical Island
3x Tundra
3x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta

4x Muscle Sliver
4x Crystalline Sliver
3x Hibernation Sliver
3x Victual Sliver
1x Acidic Sliver
3x ?????

Yeah, yeah... I know... this deck used to be called "Counter-sliver," but I still think fish should have to use merfolk. If there can be a monoblack fish deck in the open forum, I figure I can post sliverfish here.

Obviously the deck plays like fish, dropping early threats and then controlling the board with counterspells, swords, and duress. I don't think I really need to explain the card choices in the list. I'm playing in a pretty casual environment, so I'm not really concerned with the competitiveness of the deck. I just have one question..

The deck needs some sort of draw power. Brainstorm is always good, but I'd also like to up the creature count if possible. Would Ninja of the Deep Hour destroy the synergy of the deck? Should I give Synapse sliver a shot? This *is* a fun deck, after all... What should I put in the last 3 spots?

Any other changes I should make?

I used to play a non-budget (but crappy) version of stax that ran grafted skullcap and Oath of Scholars to tremendous effect. combine that with ensnaring bridge, and you can probably handle beatdown.

If you're looking for an artifact answer to burn, don't try to gain life. Look at crumbling sanctuary. Works great with welder too if you can keep it around.

I'm not sure you really understand what Pox is supposed to do. I don't see any creatures that survive your Pox, and mindstab thrull sucks. Your only kill seems to be The Rack, and that's probably not the best strategy.

Here are some suggestions to help maximize the one-sidedness of your Poxes:

Mishra's Factory (A *must* in Pox decks)
Nether Spirit (discards to pox and then comes back)
Chimeric Idol (I used to run this long ago... probably not as good now, but it lives through pox and then beats for 3 afterwards)
Cursed Scroll (Mana intensive, but you empty your hand quickly, and it survives pox)

Also, you really need some creature kill aside from Pox itself, especially since you're not running any blockers like Factory or Idol. I'd suggest diabolic edict or maybe cursed scroll. What's with the Explosives? Are you really worried about 1cc stuff? There are better answers to welders in a monoblack deck.

Finally, while sinkholes were great back in 1999 or so, they're a little slow for today's T1. In a powered environment they're almost useless, and in a casual environment, you'll probably be facing too much beatdown. I'd suggest cutting them.

Now for my questions on modern Pox... I've tried splashing white for balance and maybe a couple vindicates or even gerrard's verdict, but I'm not sure I like running duals and saclands in pox. Also, I've been trying to fit in a couple Death Clouds. They're a little expensive, but there are situations where they are even better than pox. Thoughts?

If the top card in your graveyard is a creature at the time this card comes into play, it comes into play with the appropriate characteristics of that card and will trigger any of its own (or others) comes into play abilities as appropriate. [D'Angelo 1999/06/01] It will not apply any "as comes into play" text on the creature card, however. [D'Angelo 2001/08/31]

I believe this means the card comes into play with fading counters. It comes into play with the appropriate characteristics of the card. Anyone else want to comment? Aside from saying "don't play woodripper" anyway

I'm almost positive there would be nothing "illegal" about wizards reprinting black lotus, but I'm curious... where are you getting that idea from?

Root maze is a better answer against combo than duress. It fits your colors better, allowing you to drop black entirely if you choose. I like to keep it in for sideboard... engineered plague was pure gold at chicago, and I still think Chains is worth boarding.

Keep one Gilded Drake in the main as your answer to platinum angel.

The goblin welder one-sided wrath thing is scary in theory, but it doesn't really come up all that often. Pithing needles in the board might be a good call anyway just to shut down their welders, however.

The best bet against combo is Root Maze. It fits the curve better, too. I think it's worth playing a couple copies maindeck since it's also good against sac lands and stax variants.

is this a joke?

5-3 at SCG P9 this weekend running ninja mask with no duresses, 3 ESG, and 2 root maze in the main. Root maze never disappointed me, but it was sort of a last minute choice since I figured I was poorly equipped to handle combo without duress.

Almost 6-2 but I had some awful mana troubles in the last round. Love the deck! Apologies to Kowal, who I always assumed was Brian Kowal... I just learned otherwise on Saturday

just one question... how is this "fish?" I see a controllish version of suicide black... not that that label really works either, but please... not even an island and you're calling it "fish"?

I've been off the game for over a year... when did fish stop being merfolk again?

What're your thoughts on hypnox? Any ideas for silver bullet sideboard creatures?

First things first... there's a decklist out there by Kowal that's a good starting point... assuming you don't want to use it outright.

I've also been playing this one for a while... and the previous poster is right to say that you need 4 shapeshifters. I'd say 4 duress as well. The tutors can probably go, but I'd add 2 more rangers. They do EVERYTHING!

Mana crypt and sol ring can probably go... colorless mana is ONLY useful for you to get a first turn mask out.

As good as akroma is, I don't think she's needed. Turning a dreadnaught into a phage is good enough, so akroma really only adds haste. If you need to cut cards, look at her.

I'd also say cut the humpmonkey. This isn't a toolbox deck... just play your threats and win. I tried a woodripper in the board. It wasn't bad. Woodripper only works with shapeshifter if you CAST the shifter when the woodripper is the top card... otherwise it doesn't have any fading counters.

Finally, think about a hypnox in the main. Its ability triggers when you cast a shapeshifter if hypnox is the top card of your graveyard. I've found this to be a more consistent win than rushing for a hasted trampling flying phage as fast as possible.