I still prefer Relic of Progenitus over Tormod's Crypt.  Maybe I'm just greedy, but the ability to draw a card was always invaluable to me.

Nailed it.  One thing for sure is that it's nice to see blue decks getting more diversity, it's about time they made a comeback. 

Appy polly logies for this side comment, but you have to be on point with your Tanglewire triggers.  I remember a game where the opponent QUICKLY said "tap then sack?" during their upkeep trying to sacrifice a tapped permanent to Smokestack.  No, it's clearly not the same as cheating, I'm just stressing that you need to keep your head in the game and don't get lazy with your triggers.

Just curious, when were Shops the clear best deck?  Most tournament results don't support that statement.  I agree that Shop decks will not vanish, but I honestly predict Chalice will get unrestricted.....eventually.  It will probably take a few restriction cycles though.

I haven't sold any of my stuff, but I recently checked what my collection is worth.  Fucking wow.  Even the Wastelands are worth money???  There is just no way I'm bringing those cards out of my house.  I don't even want to pile shuffle them anymore.  What the hell happened???

And I just found out Chalice of the fucking Void is restricted???  WHY!?  Jesus wept for vintage...

I don't agree that Rishadan Port is outdated, but it seems really bad in combination with a Winter Orb themed deck.  If you don't have a mox or Metalworker, then tapping two of your lands to tap one of your opponents isn't effective.  If Orb stays in, those Ports could become Factories.

Is Winter Orb even a viable option in Vintage?  I would flat out say no because there are better options, but it isn't a "bad" card I suppose.

I fail to see how this change in the legendary rule makes Norin the Wary any better.

It's aggressive (2/1), under three mana, creates permanents, and multiple copies in play are a good thing.  Broken, no.  Vintage playable, hell yes.  Red has needed decent cards like this for the longest time.

Smokestack.  That card has won more games for me than any other.

Since you have Beast Within for green, I wonder if Chaos Warp for red has any merit.

A win-con that only costs 4 mana and uses a landless Belcher mana base??  Sign me up.

And here I thought the guy on the right was Sisqo...

Nice utility land, but it's in competition with cards like Ghost Quarter, Rishadan Port, and Buried Ruin to name a few.  I don't know about other shop players, but I'm already out of room when it comes to my mana base.  But sure, it's worth testing out.

That is precisely one of the last shop lists that caught my eye.  That and Lotushead actually using Trading Post was the last thing that made me go "hmmmm" because I've already seen it otherwise.

For the record you are probably right about 5c Stax.  I really do not care one bit about 5c Stax that although it is capable of getting wins, I find it to be an inferior deck.  It is a contender for sure.  Come on, there are FIVE colors.  There are almost endless possibilities for you guys in NEW YORK to work with.  Have fun with that.  I'll be busy playing what I feel is a better deck.

Hey, why don't you run Serum Powder anymore?  Isn't Serum Powder the reason you dubbed it Espresso Stax?  Without Serum Powder, Espresso Stax is pretty much just Stax......of course unless you don't run Smokestack.  Then you got me.  But I realize talking more about that might lead to a red text discussion so I will leave it at that.  Hopefully as a mod you can respect my wish to not go against any rules.

When did I forget about Rishadan Port???  I think that card is crazy good.  My list runs 4 of those bad boys.  I have a very potent and probably the SLOWEST Stax list out there.  But never mind I'm not in New York and don't get to go to tournaments so you won't ever see it.  My bad.

As for Maze of Ith and Serrated Arrows....Cool stuff, but those are cards better left to the sideboard in my opinion.  For the record all THREE cards are at least mentioned in the original MUD primer by Arthur Tindemans which I assume you have read even though you are in New York.

Yes, I have been playing Stax-type decks for ages.  Yes, I still feel I learn all the time and that's the beauty of the game.  You are fortunate to have a vintage scene in New York and I am envious because I do not.  I still find your "three guys in New York" comment to be myopic and I'm sure others (hello, Europe?) feel the same way.

Please keep up the good work in New York, which is apparently the last bastion of Workshop technology.  I guess I will have to keep my thoughts on Workshop decks out of TMD.  That's fine by me.

I wonder if Surgical Extraction would be better than Extirpate, since many times you will have only 1 mana available to you. 

With a decent amount of artifacts, why not run Phylactery Lich in the Obliterator slot?  It is definitely worth a test.

Deathrite Shaman might be worth a shot too.

Texans vs Bears was all about defense, and of course creating turnovers.  What a shame Solider Field doesn't have a roof.

Any new thoughts regarding NFL teams after this weeks games???

That's a very myopic comment.  I'll be completely honest here too, the last "innovation" I have seen regarding Shop decks would be decks with Trading Post and Buried Ruin performing well.  Everything else is way to obvious for anyone (or any 3 players) to take credit for.  I'm actually curious now as to what cards these 3 players claim to have pioneered for Stax.

A Stax deck will look like a Stax deck despite any other names tacked on.  There won't be too many differences, or you are most likely playing an aggro deck at that point.

For anything totally mind blowing to be added to a Shop deck, we need new printings.  Otherwise, we have all seen it before.

The Texans keep getting better.  They might actually make it to the super bowl this year, but if not it will be soon enough.

This is the best version of Low Rider I've ever heard!  Keep up the good work

The reason is that people are overly sensitive on many, many levels.  God forbid if someone is offended and get's their feelings hurt by looking at something they do not have to look at, listen to, or read.  Most people are a bunch of pansies imho.

It's not the most powerful card, but it's solid disruption worthy of a few maindeck slots imo.  If you play your own fetches, it acts as a semi-reliable mana producer.  The 2 damage, and to a lesser extent gaining 2 life, will prove quite handy for the kind of decks that would run this.  Definitely worth testing in Vintage.

Then you just assume those cards are in your hand when you need them, and you also assume they won't be countered.  The problem I see is that when you take into account Mana Crypt and Ancient Tombs, sometimes the 7/7 hitting two times is game.  The point I was trying to address is that I don't want a 2/1 creature in the Oath matchup even though he is not a dead card, I get that part.  FYI I run Revokers main, and will continue to sb them out in the Oath matchup.  Believe it or not, Griselbrand isn't the only Oath creature. 

Doesnt matter that much to me, but I dont like casting Revoker and them getting a "vanilla" 7/7 flying lifelinker.  By all means help them trigger Oath if you want.

Since I play a more controllish version of MUD, I usually end up negating moxen with my Revokers.  I always sideboard them out when I'm playing against Oath.

Congrats on the win!  Did you ever get two Posts online and if so, how was it?  Any matches where you would want 4 of these?

I've never been, but I assume that the Vintage event is non-proxy.  Can anyone confirm/deny that?  The site doesn't seem to be the easiest to navigate, any links with that info would be much appreciated.

I think MUD decks have to run 4 Ancient Tombs, anything less would be uncivilized.  And as you stated, I think you can reduce the amount of Metalworkers since you have 3 Crucibles.

I'm interested in testing the card as well, the only problem is that I don't have room in my MUD deck for it and it's hard to imagine taking something out for Trading Post, but I'll see what I can do.

I wonder if adding  a copy of Birthing Pod would help.  Empath would be able to get your Griffin if you Pod him out.  Noble/Bird -> Wall  -> Empath is going to be slow, but still might get you on track.  Just a thought.

Trying to get some buds with me to hit GenCon for the first time this year.  So you get a badge to get in, or is the badge for the Vintage event?  Where do you get the badge so you dont have to wait in a 1k line???  Also, any other good tips for first timers?

Phyrexian Revoker seems decent vs Griselbrand and is easy to cast.

For 1W that would be awesome.  Great vintage-related ability.  Horrible casting cost.  The end.

I thought about tossing this in a R/G belcher list.    Belcher plays enuf risky cards as is.