How did you end up splitting the time walk?

yeah ok, so I guess the guy was a scrub, but at least I beat him anyways.

To me this seems odd, but someone busted this out against me on MWS, and I didn't want to object.

Can you really just cast stifle on phyrexian dreadnought as he comes in? Thus not having to sac creatures?

Haha, I don't know if what you are playing is public, but I'll assume it's not.

And with that, I will add that I am excited to see what you do play, and in consequence, read your thoughts as to why you played that particular deck.

Good article I thought. The penguins were particularly uplifting.

I guess we're bound to see the deck that just won get a lot of hate and a lot of play at the next event.

Smmenen makes a good point. It's hard to justify unloading several hundred dollars into something (duals, fetches and fows) just to try it out.

I guess at the moment the closest thing to playing vintage for me is MWS, and this is actually a great tool for people to be able to try out vintage and see what it is like.

I think that there should really be more thought and effort put into MWS, maybe organizing events and the like. Although I realise it's not the same as playing with real cards, but it is so easily accessible to anyone, it doesn't cost a dime, and it can really show you what vintage is all about, by letting you play any deck you want, giving you access to all the cards etc. I think that online free play can really help vintage along.

It's what drew me in to say the least.

I also really like the idea of the staggered tournament system. I think that really what we are trying to do is create levels of vintage players, in hopes that every player will someday reach a high level.

What I mean by levels is that, let's say the lowest level vintage player, or someone just starting out, will be one who plays on MWS, then he or she will start to actually acquire vintage cards, and then will slowly start to acquire the more expensive cards (such as Drains, Shops etc.) and will be able to play in tournaments with a decent proxy count. Slowly, he or she will be more and more seduced by vintage and will eventually get to the highest level, of playing in the biggest tournaments with all his or her own cards.

In my opinion, this is what we are really trying to achieve.

Haha, I am not crying about it first of all. I never said I should be able to play or I feel cheated as a human being because I can't play. All I am saying is that I enjoy playing magic and that it would be nice if it were cheaper. I play poker as well, and that's free, (other than buy ins, but you also win money, so it's all good.) But you are absolutely correct in saying that magic isn't that expensive compared to other activities. The only difference is, I feel more committed to other activities, and they seem more substantial to me.

For example, I ski a lot. It is very expensive. It is something I absolutely love and will never give up. Skiing however, dominates my life, I ski upwards of 4 times a week, and thus I feel justified in spending 350 dollars on a pair of skis each year. I suppose it's just that magic right now to me doesn't seem nearly as substantial and the money doesn't seem as justified, seeing as I would be playing in only a handful of tournaments all year.

I'm sure magic would in time, turn into something that really means a lot to me, and the price I put into it to begin with would all be worth it, but it's just that at this point in time, the investment seems very severe and steep.

In skiing, you can rent some skis and try it out for a day. I think proxies are similar to this in magic. You can try it out, see how you like it, and then once you really enjoy it, you can invest the money to getting the real cards.

However, there is also the matter of why buy the real cards if you can proxy them, and I certainly agree that it would be annoying to play against or with a 40 proxy deck. So really, I don't even know where I stand. I wasn't really trying to say that I feel there is a need for more proxies, I was more just revealing my situation and thoughts, just to give all the participants of this debate another perspective, not necessarily another opinion.

I guess I will just save up slowly and buy those FoWs and Fetches. What can I do.

Allright, I think my opinion may be relevant, because I am very much so, one of these people you are all talking about that you are trying to attract towards vintage.

First of all, I am 15 years old, I don't have a job (although I should probably work on getting one), and I have absolutely no viable way to acquire a set of power, mana drains, bazaars etc.

Allright, so here's my little "story". I was introduced to magic by my friend's dad when I was very young, something liek 10 years old, and I loved the game. I bought some boosters (more likely my parents did for me), and we even used to go to local  casual tournaments and all, it was fun.

I slowly lost touch with this friend, and as a result stopped playing magic for a few years. Then, about 2 years ago,(Before 8th rolled in, just when beserk got unrestricted, and GAT was the deck to beat) I decided to see what magic is like again. I started to actively frequent forums, and T1 was what was truly interesting to me. I loved the brokenness, and I just really enjoyed playing. I played on apprentice alot, every night, and I just enjoyed playing the game. At a point I was goign to buy a set of FoWs with some saved up money, but I realised that I just couldn't be competitive with the money I had, and I enjoyed playing online anyways.

Slowly, I suppose since I didn't ever really play in real life, I drifted away from Magic. Now, about 2 years later, some new friends of mine busted out their magic cards, and we played some casual games, it was really fun. So, I decided I shoudl check out what was up with the T1 community these days and how magic was doing. This was basically a week ago.

Since then I have been reading up on all the new deck types, playing some MWS, and it's all just very exciting and enjoyable for me. At this point I am just trying to learn more and more abotu the format, and just PLAY the game, even online, because I enjoy it.

In the future (maybe near future), I intend to find out what the T1 community in my area is like, and if it's strong, maybe enter some tournaments. The only problem is, even with 10 proxies, without a set of FoWs and Duals, or even Fetches, I really just can't be competitive. I feel kindof sadenned, because I for one, would love to play magic, and I just enjoy it alot, but I simply can't justify spending substancial amounts of money (hundreds, even thousands) on it.

I suppose eventually I will just slowly work my way up to some FoWs (if I dont eventually lose interest, due to lack of real play and card limitation, as I did a couple of years ago) and maybe even some duals.

I don't know, I suppose my real point is that magic is a game, and I really enjoy playing it, but I just can't and it bothers me.

Yeah, actually you are right, I didn't think of those other situations.

But just so I can be 100% sure I understand. If there is no other possible target, then misdirection simply does not do anything, and the spell that I cast it on follows through with it's original target?

Ok, so doesn't that amke midirection a very limited card? I can only really see it having use in a counter war. Which is very useful, but also very limited.

My question is simply, do I need to chose a new target when I misdirect, or is it up to me? I would assuem i have to choose a new target, but what if this isnt possible, such as let's say an raise dead, but there is only one creature in all graveyards? Do I just not choose a new target or do I have to choose the one possible one, and thus render misdirection ineffective and pointless?

Also, even if there ARE other possible targets, do I have to choose one? Like if he plays raise dead, and has two creatures in his graveyard, would I have to redirect the spell to target the other creature (which would still be disadvantageous for me), or could I choose to not target any creature at all?

The thing about wastelands is that I know that none of my friends have duals, or bazaars, or LoAs, or other such things, so it's not quite as effective, although I would still be depriving them of their basic lands. But to me it just doesn't seem worth the mana inconsistency, since I dont have duals or fetches. In the future, perhapos I will get a set of fetches and then maybe a set of wastelands, but thanks for the thought.

Allright well, I would just rather not proxy, cause its better to play with real cards, and it feels weird proxying for casual.

However, I came up with this deck for landstill. I decided to go for red over white because the decks my friends play, and I belive my area's meta (although I really can't be sure at the moment) is mostly small aggro creatures, that burn would very effectively take care of, and there are no worldgorger dragons or anythign to worry about.

I was looking for comments on a) the mana base, are there any cheap cards that I could add in that would make the deck more stable mana-wise?

I am also wondering about the 4x Impulse, shoudl this be substituted for AK, deep analysis, etc?

And also, the counter choices, is there any other budget counters that I could use? (just no mana drain or FoW)

Counter Magic (13)
4x Mana Leak
4x Counterspell
2x Misdirection
3x Teferi's Response

Removal/Burn (12)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Fire/Ice
4x Disk

Draw/Utility (7)
4x Standstill
3x Impulse

Mana (28)
4x Faerie Conclave
4x Mishra's Factory
12x Island
8x Mountain

This could also be rather easily turned into a pretty decent, fully powered version (2 moxen, time walk, lotus, ancestral, 4 mana drain + something ) for any tournaments with a 10 card proxy limit.

Any thoughts?

Allright yeah. I was thinking that it was just too slow. I was also thinking that I could add like some disk or chalice or something to that effect, or masticore, powder keg? etc.

Also, I definitely do not need to play tog, I was looking at oath earlier, but I think it, too loses alot being unpowered and lacking the FoWs and such.

So yeah, landstill, I was actually looking at that earlier today and it seems like a very cool deck to me. Can it function  with stability with only 2 colors, no duals, and no power? If so, I would definitely like to look into that, and in fact I while right now. I was always a fan of the lands that attack, so I think it would be cool to play a deck like that.

Hi everyone, this is my first post on TMD.

I played magic alot a few years back, just as beserk got unrestricted I believe, and I remember that tog was a very popular deck type for t1 back then. I recently (this week) have been getting back into magic and especially type 1.

I dont have too huge a collection of cards, and I dont want to spend too much money on this deck, because it will only really be for casual play, but I was wondering what a good build of truly budget tog would be, or is it even worth building it this way?

Allright so I have a few issues, first of all, although aggro is known to dominate control, I find this a little too true at the moment. I get absolutely rolled once my opponent has a creature on the board, as I have no real effective way to remove it, and it puts me on a lets say 7 or 8 turn clock, which is long, but sometimes not long enough. So I was wondering, keeping my deck black and blue as I dont have duals or fetchlands, how could I effectively take care of creatures. I was thinking chalice? Im not sure. Flood is somehwta effective, but it ties up my mana in ways I would prefer it not to.

Secondly, I find that my brainstorms dont work that well. When I put the two cards back on my deck, they are two cards I dont really want, and I woudl rather find some way to make them shuffle in instead of just going on the top. I know most people use fetchlands for this purpose, but I simply don't want to spend the money on fetchlands. Is there any kind of tech I could find that would be useful, while also shuffling my brainstorm cards?

Any other suggestions, for budget mana base would be good, or for my drawing or disrupting/countering cards? ANy thoughts would be good, this is very rough.

Land (26)      
17x Island
9x Swamp

Disruption/Counter (18)      
4x Counterspell               
3x Duress                   
1x Flood                         
4x Mana Leak                                                                                 
                       
Draw(16)
4x Brainstorm                     
4x Accumulated Knowledge
3x Deep Analysis        
1x Yawgmoth's Will               
1x Gush                         
1x Windfall                     
1x Fact Or Fiction               
3x Impulse               

Win (4)                                                                                  
4x Psychatog