Hi Stephen,
really impressive work... 9 bucks for a detailed work like this is a rare thing...
However I have some questions for you regarding GAT: first of all, why Mana Drain is no more considered? In your 2007 version of this deck you (and all the other players) run 2 Mana Drain, but today seems there are no slots for them... And so what about cutting the mono Misdirection and the fourth Thoughtseize?
Adding to this, I don't understand the exclusion of both Regrowth and Library of Alexandria... Would you like to explain me why such a those foil cards were cutted from Grow decklists?
Thank you so much for your reply

Mr. Sligh

You absolutely cannot tell someone the deck is playing his opponent if the players are both sat down, or even the round is started... I'm not sure but it is considered like cheating (there is a more technical name I can't remember right now)... In REL Regular the penalty is a game loss, while in REL Professional, or in particular cases in which the head judge could believe this information is determinant for the development of the round, the penalty is the match loss and also probably the disqualification...

I agree with you Lemnear... These could be probably the same reasons why Owen decides to play a 4c Tezz-less list... By the way the lack of a solution for opponent's Inkwell or other creatures, one overall Dark Confidant, is probably a weakness of his deck... Personally, after some test matches, I really enjoy to play Hurkyl's Recall and Darkblast (and I am 80-20 on the decision to cut the Mystical Tutor, even if post-side is a great tutor for Darkblast)...

Regarding the add of the 4th colour, I'm not so sure that three red cards can justify the change of a lot of side-plans... We all know Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast are very versatile cards: they could act as a counter or they could act as a removal... But let's analyze the matchups in which they could help us:
- Tez.decks (including Trygon Tezz/4c color Tezz ecc...): this is where Reb/Pyro give us the greatest advantage... They can be used like a sort of "vindicate" on opponent's Planeswalker and permit to cast ours...
- NobleFish: here I think Reb/Pyro is not a good choice... This deck runs 4 wasteland and a Strip Mine, plus Null Rod and post side probably something like Trygon Predator or Quasali Pridemage... Are you sure playing 3 red cards with only two sources of red mana (mox ruby and volcanic island, easily destroyable by the opponent) is the right thing? I guess no... I admit that could be great against Meddling Mage or Cold Eye-Selkie, but I think that's not a good side cards against NobleFish...
- Oath: Based on the lists I saw on deckcheck and morphling.de, Oath decks play the same number of counter spell that we play: 4 Force of Will 2 Mana Drain and 4 Spell Pierce... And in their side rarely appear cother counters like Negate or Dispel... So this is the question: why I have to side in 3 Re effects against a deck, whose winning cards is green, and except in the rare case he or she play Tyrant Oath, there are no blue creatures (ok someone plays Sphinx but the real problem is Terastodon and Iona)?

In conclusion, I believe that until someone told me that I'm going to play a tournament withan high percentage of mirror I refuse to play pthe 4th colour, in order to have a strongest manabase and a litle bit more defined side plan...

It's two days I'm pondering on Owen's list and I personally have some no-answers question:
- Is playing 3x Jace 2.0 the right thing? Why does he cut Tezzeret? I think that a deck with 4 bobs, vault&key finisher and a silver bullet like pithing needle in the sideboard must play Tezzeret, in order to avoid unnecessary damages or to have a fast way to win...
- Does 2 reb and a pyroblast, and consequently the add of the 4th color, really represent the best solution against some 50-50, or lightly negative, matchups like oath or noble fish (or mirror match)? IMHO there are a lot of black or green cards that could be useful in these matchups; in fact, someone of them is already abused (nature's claim), while someone else is unused (e.g. Dispel, Guttural Response) or marginally considered (like Darkblast)...
- Why no one play Regrowth? Playing green without playing regrowth sounds like a counter-sense for me...
- (Last but not the least) Have you seen Owen's deck have no response on opponent's Tinker+Robot, both Sphinx and Inkwell Leviathan? He only runs 1x Nature's Claim on his maindeck... There are no bounce effects (Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor), spot removal or mass bouncers (Hurkyl's Recall or Rebuild)... I think that is a big lack... It's true there are two Sower of Temptation in his sideboard, but those cards does not resolve the Inkwell Problem...
And what about the lack of a spot removal for creatures, like Confidants or Noble Fish creatures (Cold Eye-Selkie overall)... Why, playing 4 colors, doesn't he add a Fire/Ice for example? Personally I can't figure out me playing this deck without a Darkblast in the sideboard...

Concluding, I post my personal list, based on the my personal thoughts on the Owen's list:

1  Forest
2  Island (I think the third basic is necessarry, especially the second blue mana, against noble fish and artifact, or other denial decks)
4  Misty Rainforest
2  Polluted Delta
1  Tolarian Academy
3  Tropical Island
3  Underground Sea

4  Dark Confidant
1  Inkwell Leviathan
3  Trygon Predator

1  Ancestral Recall
1  Black Lotus
1  Brainstorm
1  Demonic Tutor
4  Force of Will
1  Hurkyl's Recall ("Removal" useful against artifact or opponent's robot)
1  Jace, the Mind Sculptor (if Mystical sucks I will add the second)
1  Mana Crypt
2  Mana Drain
1  Merchant Scroll
1  Mystical Tutor (need to test it to understand if it is useful or not)
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Pearl
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Sapphire
1  Sensei's Divining Top
1  Sol Ring
4  Spell Pierce
1  Tezzeret, the Seeker (I prefer the split 1/2 Jace + 1 Tezzeret)
3  Thoughtseize
1  Time Vault
1  Time Walk
1  Tinker
1  Vampiric Tutor
1  Voltaic Key
1  Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard

4  Leyline of the Void
3  Nature's Claim
1  Pithing Needle
4  Tarmogoyf
1  Darkblast
1  Tormod's Crypt (Probably using Tezzeret is greater than Jailer, but I need to test him)
1  Thada-Adel, Acquisitor (Fantastic card in mirror match)

Reading the list posted on this topic, I have a question: anyone play the trasformational oath sideboard?
Why do you prefer to play a sort of aggro-control sideboard?
Do you really think Tarmogoyf is the real answer to the "Fish Problem"?

I'm testing this deck, in preparation of Bom III, and my opinion, gold-fishing the deck and playing against my teammates, is that this deck is 60-40 against all other tier1 decks, but incredibily sucks against Goblins, Fish UR (expecially but also UW or URB) and quitely against workshop.deck (if the player start with both chalice at zero and a sphere is an hard match). Because of these matchups I really considered to play something like the deck Jimmy McCarthy in a recent tournament named Meandeck Tezzeret.
Oath post side plan is the best way to win against aggro and aggro control deck, that is approximately the 70% of Tezzeret negative matchups.

My 2 cents

Thank you so much for your reply... Truly I seen the report about your 1st place with ControlPainter before replying in this one... The question about Tarmogoyf could be considered a simple curiosity about your sideboard plan and the stategy you adopted against particular matchups in which Painter+Grindstone combo is not a good choice...
The Slavery sideboard probably gives more stabilty to the deck because of both the possibility not to add another color to the manabase (that could be dangerous) and the more answer to mirror match (that I think it's a very popular and critical matchup)

Hi all,
I have a question for Rich... I'm really impressed with your decks and I think to pilot it to Euro-Ovino3... But in these day of testing I focus my attention to some particular building choices: first of all why running Merchant Scroll instead of Mystical Tutor??? Ok, the major part of the bulk cards in this deck is istant blue spell (FoF, Gifts, Ancestral overall) but Merchant Scroll doesn't permit me to draw Tinker o Yawgmoth's Will... So why I should prefer to run Merchant Scroll??? Is that because it not cause card-disadvantage??? Please let me know if is possible (I think every single choice in a deck could determinate if you win or lose a match so I want to build the best decks as possible )
And another question regarding sideboard... Would you please let me know when you side-in Tarmogoyf (and Tropical Island)??? Which matchups bring you to use it??? And what you side-out??? Do you do a switch Painter+Grindstone for Tarmogoyf???
I think you switch these cards against Artifacts.deck (cutting Volcanic Island Painter Grindstone and Rebs for Ancient Grudge Ingot Chewer Tropical Island and Tarmogoyf), but do you do the same thing with Slavery for example??? Do you manage to combo off against Slavery.deck without any problems???
Hoping in your answer...

Mr.Sligh

I see this list on a top8 on morphling.de and I spend a quarter of hour to try to find the winning condition...
This deck seems innovative and it could some chances to began competitive if you add some more consistant way to win the game... I'm really scared about playing only 1 cards (the threshold-white land I don't remember the name) that could bring me to victory... I think you need a plan B...
Tormod's Crypt and Pithing could be played in game 1 (e.g. Bomberman.deck against which you probably does not play more times), but in my opinion the real problem is leyline of the void... You suck if some ichorid.deck drop turn 0 Leyline...
Otherwise I noticed that you only win gaining life (or decking opponent with coliseum) what would you do against decking yourself??? How could you win against decks that use Brainfreeze as alternative winning condition (some GAT version inspired to Rich Shay one)???

Mr. Sligh

I think this deck is really amazing and I'm trying to play it in Europe...
Cutting Meloku or TpC bring you to change your plan for victory... You shift to a more intensive combo game plan...
Meloku is pretty good in GAT matchup because GAT has only one card to transform his creatures in something "unblockable", that is Cunning Wish... So countering it you could stop creatures with a simple 1/1 token...
What about TpC it is the only method I know to win senseless with Goblin or aggro-control.deck (they are really popular in Europe, expecially the first)...
 
However I doesn't understand why no ones of ICBM team play Hurkyl's Recall in their sideboard... Why Ancient Grudge/Rebuild/Rack and Ruin could be better of an istant that bounce opponent's board for 1U???

Because of the singularity of the event do you think is it impossible to permit to all TMD users to read your tournament report without attending three months???

In my opinion Echoing Truth is an optimal card in this deck because it could solve the highest number of "problems" and in plus it rebuond all copy of these ones... Look at the cards that disrupt Bomberman combo game-plan... They are CotV, Sphere of Resistance, Null Rod, Pillar and Leyline of the Void...
Well Echoing Truth, which is simply tutorable with Merchant Scroll, resolves 3 of 5 problems and it resolves them even if there are multiple copies of them (this is the real power of the card)
Empty the Warrens is not a real problem... I'll be happy if someone combo out with EtW, instead of Tendrils... He/She will give me time and turns to find a solution...

Hi... I introduce myself to this thread, that I'm following from when it started, to expose to you my Bomberman list and the ideas which bring me to build this deck...
I'm an Italian player and, as you know, in Europe Salvagers decks are played by a few number of players... Especially in Italy... Notwithstanding I think Bomberman is a great deck: the printing of Aven Mindcensor and the B&R list of the past June contributed in a relevant way to the rebirth of the deck... It is the only control-combo deck which is not affect by the limitation of Gifts Ungiven...
The list i want to purpose to you is a semi-classical list... Nothing of truly innovative...

MAINDECK
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Trinket Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Force of Will
3 Thirst of Knowledge
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
3 Merchant Scroll
2 Misdirection
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing Truth
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

SIDEBOARD
1 Chalice of the Void
2 ???
3 Energy Flux
2 Disenchant
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Meddling Mage

The maindeck present all Bomberman decks normally run... Except for Jotun Grunt... I've tested a lot this guys and I have preferred them in main other than Mindcensor... The reason??? Well... I think Jotun Grunt is an extremely powerful card because it permit to me to abuse of all play zones... In fact with Jotun and Auriok I could re-use tools or spells I have already played in the same game (the most simple example is the possibility of cast more than one times per game Ancestral Recall using the synergy between Jotun Grunt's cumulative upkeep and Merchant Scroll)...
This is the leading motive I decide to maindeck Grunt...

About the sideboard... I have many doubts regarding it and it is one of the reason I decide to post in this thread... Except for Mindcensor and CotV I really doesn't know if this sideboard could be competitive and useful for the metagame of this day... Thinking to the decks that recently top8 I insert various solution...
Meddling Mage --> For combo and Flash match up
Energy Flux     --> Against Ws.deck
Disenchant      --> For Oath and Ws.deck match up
After that there are 2 free slot... Looking for some US or Canadian Bomberman list and analysing their sideboard I see they put in these slot cards like Sword to Plowshares, Control Magic or Wrath of God (so cards against GAT's match I suppose)...
What do you suggest???
Remember that, as the article of Jank Golem explain, in Europe the percentages of GAT and others Gushbased.deck is lower than in USA...

I will appreciate so much anyone who could help me...

Hi! First of all compliments for the primer and for the very nice deck!

However checking the deck I note the lack of blue... You think is it impossible playing some "important" blue cards like force of will, brainstorm, ancestral  and time walk 
I know Hide/Seek, the MVP of the deck, requires white, red and black mana but i think blue is the most powerful color i vintage...
Playing blue, you can add Cunning Wish (3 copies I think it could be right) that permit you to place some copies of your 4x spells in side (orim's chant, sword to plowshares or hide/seek  ) and in this mode you have potentially 6 copies every match of these cards...
Moreover, with blue, you can play rebounds against artifact decks (that, in my personal opinion, are not an easy match up) like rebuilds, hurkyl's recall, chain of vapor, repeal... or against colossus wipe away 

Excuse me if something I write seems crazy but I'm an italian player and our metagame is very different 
Waiting your answer...
Compliments again!
bye!

Hi all, I'm an italian (bad  :lol:) player and some days ago i have seen this post... I appreciate this deck and his particular combo (I never see it in Italy yet) so i have decided to test it. I have tuned the list basing on this one list but using also the list of one of the most famous italian player, Lorenzo Fedeli (he build a particular list of t1t called "t1t speedy", that you can find here, which abuse of a powerful card not very played in the past in Italy, Merchant Scroll, to tutoring the most powerful card of Vintage, like Ancestral and Intution or Ak)
Linking the two philosophy of these deck i have developed this list:

3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
5 Moxes
1 Black lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal

3 Izzet Guildmage
1 Darksteel Colossus

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
2 Intuition
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Reset
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
 
3 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

SIDEBOARD
2 Pithing Needle
1 Brain Freeze
1 Rebuild
1 Rushing River
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Darkblast
1 Coffin Purge
1 Ebony Charm
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Rack and Ruin

I prefer to play Mana Vault and Lotus Petal in order to abuse of Tolarian Academy (one of the most tutorated cards with demonic tutor) so i put the needles in side. This deck is based on the IGM ability but also had a secondary plan game: Yawgmoth's Will --> Brain Freeze. I play 3 cunning wish and io fact the sideboard is designed in their function: i could use it to take ebony charm or fire//ice and win with IGM or i could take Brain Freeze after 15/16 spells (that i can easily do with chain of vapor). Merchant Scroll have so the precise aim to allow me to tutoring waht i need: Cunning Wish to win with Reset and one of the istant like Ancestral Ebony Charm or Fire//Ice; Mystical Tutor to take Yawgmoth's Will and storm with Brain Freeze.
Well... I think that's all


I'm glad to answer to all your questions
Bye bye (oh and excuse for my bad english)  :lol:

Hi, i'm an italian player (so excuse for my bad english) very interested in this deck... I'm playing it from two weeks and i think it cuold be a new tier1... the only problem is aggro-control matchups... i think it's something impossibile or very very difficult... 
Well i want to show you my list to try to understand some different build choose...

MAINDECK
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
2 Sensei Divining Top
4 Dark Confidant
1 Mind's Desire
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Thirst for Knowledge
 
SIDEBOARD
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Energy Flux
1 Brainfreeze
1 Echoing Truth
2 Massacre
1 Tinker
2 Duress
1 Darkblast

First of all i prefer 3 island and 2 swamp because exspecially against aggrocontrol decks i have serious problem with the lack of double black man to cast tendrils...
Then I play 61 cards... yes i'm a token  ... because i adore timetwister and i think it's a good card to recover some 90% lost game... but i probably cut it because a semi-combo deck it must be 60 cards
Also i prefer mono-cunning wish to the second rebuild because in this mode i can add in side brain freeze and i can use it to take a buonce like echoing thruth to bounce creatures like meddling mages who calls cards like tendrils or chain of vapor in the first game...
Finally in my sideboard i prefer brainfreeze rather than the 3rd tormod's crypt and 2 energy flux rather than blue elemental blast... this beacuse, nowithstanding i think artifact matchups are ones of the easyest, in Italy there is a large number of artifact decks every tournaments in this period, and always two o three do top8...

What abuot Thug's idea of putting two merchant scrolls in this deck i think it's a correct idea, but i shuold prefer to add card like burning and recoup, and so red color in the mana base... this because red permit the use of red elemental blast, one of the most powerful cards in vintage and removal like pyroclasm or rack and ruin... even if massacre is fantastic 

Thank you so much at every anyone who read my reply and excuse again for my very bad english... i promise i study more it...
I also hope to see some replies 
Bye

Hi all!!! I'm a new registered italian player (so sorry for my bad english ).. I have read very carefully this discussion and I have understood you have a different kind to build a tog deck... In italy this deck is very used by all the most famous players (like Lorenzo Fedeli for example) and me too i play this deck for a small time  ... so I want to ask you something about your build... here is my list, for the most curios users  :

MAINDECK
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
4 Undergroud Sea
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Intuition
4 Ak
2 Deep Analisys
3 Duress
1 Mind Twist
1 Psicatog
1 Tinker
1 Darkstell's Colossus
4 Brainstorm
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demoniac Tutor
4 Cunning Wish
1 Mystical Tutor

SIDEBOARD
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Fling
1 Lava Dart
1 Snuff Out
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Firestorm
1 Shattering Pulse
2 Misdirection
1 Rushing River
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Gush

now you can see i use your's list with some little difference: 3 duress no e.e. no shaman no vampiric
... welll so my final question is: this building choices, that you have done bacause of your particular meta-game, very different for my own, is better than mine choices??? gorilla shaman is a good card in this deck??? is it important to do denial with this deck??? Well i don't know the answer but i think tog is one pf the most powerfull tier1 in europe and imho slots like vampiric tutor in side can probably be improved... while e.e. in an aggro-fast creature with low casting cost metagame it can be the difference...
Thanks for attention and i wait your reply to my answer and my consideration...

p.s. Little OT (sorry  ): Do someone of this forum come to Doomsday in Italy next Sunday??? i may post it in Tournament Forum but i can't...  .... sorry again...