I think I'm in the market for instant-speed Thoughtseize.

I would be inclined to play Chewers before Trygon Predators (because I feel that Predator is extremely weak as a plan A since the printing of metamorph). That said, Doomsday is a very good setup deck, and I always max H.Recall prior to dealing with other stuff.

Another line, which I haven't had time recently to explore is playing Mentor in the Doomsday control shell plus sb white stuff (in particular, Serenity). Mentor is often strong enough on its own vs shops, and Doomsday is very well suited to just comboing with it (high disruption count, high spell density). This wouldn't work as well in the multiple Ritual list, but somethign more in line with what Smmenen was playing.

This isn't significantly different than the other lists that have been seeing play lately except in these cards:

Dark Rituals #2 and #3
Dig Though Times #1 and #2
Lack of Doomsdays #3 and #4

DR#2 sees more play than DR#3 does (and DR#2 isn't even very controversial, it trades more consistently explosive wills, doomsdays, and h.recalls for grinding power vs blue). I'm skeptical that the third Dark Ritual is useful enough in its secondary mode (not casting DD/YWill, making DTT cost UUB) to play over additional disruption or Treasure Cruise.  That said, 3 Dark Rituals and less than 4 H.Recalls seems like you're giving away 10s of percentage points against workshops. If you're already built to be the best set-up and I win deck, why not use that advantage in your worst matchup?

DTT is interesting in that several people I've talked to came to the conclusion that Treasure Cruise #1 was significantly better than DTT #1 when playing as the Gushbond deck. This isn't to say that "Draw 3" is a better mode than "Double Impulse", but that U, draw3 fits better into the primarily control-oriented Gushbond plan (mostly by being easier to defend in the mid-game) than UU, Double Impulse. That said, if the goal isn't necessarily to fight all comers to a stand-still (although this list still looks pretty disruptive) and bury them in CA/VCA, then the idea of constantly Digging/Gushing until you're ready to Rit+Will/DD seems very good.

Mox Emerald doesn't see a ton of play maindeck (due to lack of colorless sinks), but with more colorless sinks, I'd personally be inclined to play Mana Crypt before Mox Emerald. Crypt does more for you against Workshops while letting you fill in for a Lotus/Ritual in Doomsday piles in misc. scenarios. Particularly since the only apparent justification for Emerald vs most other lists is DTT, having an extra colorless at the cost of 1.5 life per turn it's in play seems like a great deal.

In the Efro vs Bob final game, once Bob casts YawgWill, he should have just immediately via Doomsdaying for Gushes instead of screwing around with random draws via:

Petal
Fastbond
Fetch->Sea (-2 to 14)
Fetch->Sea (-2 to 12)
Dark Ritual
Doomsday (Gush, Gush, Lab Man, BS, BLANK go to 6)
Ponder->Gush
Gush for Gush/LM (-2 to replay, going to 4, floating UU)
Gush for BS/BLANK (-2 to replay, going to 2, floating UU)
LM (U)
BS, win

The classic 10 counters and LED plan.

I'll be on Maui in February (basically the entire month).

Recoup is only really weak if you play with no sorceries that are good/insane for an additional 1R. Things I've targeted with a non-Gifts pile Recoup:

Yawgmoth's Will (if you have Recoup in hand, like Snapcaster, you get all the cards you Gifts for)
Time Walk (2UR for a turn is still good, see Snapcaster Mage)
Demonic Tutor (2BR for a card is typically okay. This tends to bridge you to the actual win.)
Tinker (3UR for Tinker is still a BSC on the cheap).
Thoughtseize (1RB Coercion is situationally playlable, (against look at Snapcaster Mage).

When it comes down to it, think about Recoup as an additional Snapcaster Mage that trades instants for the ability to always flashback Will/Tinker. This isn't unreasonable and doesn't mean that you don't still play some Snapcaster Mages. This is just a tradeoff that you can sometimes only flashback your most powerful cards in exchange for the ability to ALWAYS flashback your most powerful cards.

It's possible, but you have to balance the possibility of not having Snapcaster Mage in hand and times where value gifts for 2 cards isn't going to be enough against the cost of that slot. If you were to play 2-3 Snapcasters, I could see the argument that you just have a snapcaster in hand often enough that Gifts is always just Will + 3 cards and you get all of them for 3UB.

The reason for Recoup was that it's the cheapest way to force Yawgmoth's Will and guarantee value (i.e. you get 3 cards out of Gifts instead of 2). If you Gifts for Recoup, Will, X, Y, you get Will, X, Y for a worst-case cost of 5RB (assuming X and Y don't produce mana, the actual worst case is pile dependent). Snapcaster Mage doesn't do this. Noxious Revival doesn't do this. Past in Flames is worse at this unless you have several ritual effects around.

This isn't to say that you need to play Recoup. It simply might not be worth it, but I suspect that Recoup is as busted as it ever has been when giving you 3 spells off your Gifts.

Also, I'm not saying that you wouldn't want Snapcasters/Regrowths/Noxious Revivals in your deck. Having one of these cards already in hand is equal to casting Gifts when you already have Will. You just get all the cards.  Snapcaster Mage in particular is a ridiculous card because of how flexible it is, and Regrowth isn't too far behind.

I usually play Sol Ring in my sideboard against workshops. If you maybe wanted to support a Tinker plan, it'd be reasonable to have something like:

Lotus
BUG Moxen
Petal
Crypt
Sol Ring

Not saying you necessarily want this, but if it was a plan (particularly a post-board plan), Sol Ring is good here.

I personally feel that Ancient Tomb is better than Sol Ring In Doomsday. It serves the same purpose (excepting Tinker), but isn't affected by chalice or sphere.

 deleted

There isn't much (if any) role for Night's Whisper. Play 4 Preordain,  the 1st SDT, Gitaxian Probe, and Time Walk before you get to this card.

There are two ways to play this deck that have had recent success: as a Ritual Gush Storm deck and as a Doomsday Control deck.

Ritual Gush Storm wants 4 Dark Ritual, plays fewer pieces of disruption, and gets access to cards like Necropotence and maybe Timetwister. It's looking to probe defenses and exploit weaknesses found. It can win with a Will plan, an Ritual/Necro plan, or a Doomsday plan, and these plans blend together seamlessly. It has issues against decks that present a lot of cheap disruption, although it's probably better against workshops than Doomsday control because of how well it can play cards like Dark Confidant as well as win immediately after Hurkyl's Recall. Gitaxian Probe is at home in this build as a way to fuel wills while providing more means to find openings and making sure you can Doomsday, draw instead of Doomsday, go. Time Walk sees less play in these builds.

Doomsday Control is a Gush deck that grinds out opponents by having fewer mana sources and thus virtual card advantage over everyone but UR Delver. It plays more of and more disruptive counters than any other deck, and trades explosive speed of multiple rituals for the ability to consistently assemble kill sequences involving more counters in hand than the opponent has cards in hand. It will use Gushbond to generate incremental advantage until a time when it can either safely Doomsday or Will and simply end the game. Ideally, this deck would not play cards like Dark Ritual or Gitaxian Probe, although the realities of beating decks with maindeck graveyard hate and Wastelands mean you often see these cards as 1-ofs. SDT sees play here as a means of ensuring card quality while getting a "free" (on the combo turn) draw spell that preserves library count (important for Gush into Recall, your most efficient way of powering through 5 cards).

Blending the two gives interesting results. The more rituals you add to the deck, the worse your matchup against control becomes. Drawing mana sources instead of business is miserable against decks like Delver or Mono Blue. Extra Rituals, paired with definite hard counter disruption (spot discard, Forces, and Flusterstorms) allow you to quickly and decisively finish the Wasteland aggro-control decks like BUG Fish and some of the UW decks. Rituals might at first seem really awkward against Workshops, but make H.Recall into a kill a much more sure sequence. Rituals also allow explosive draws that allow you to punish weak keeps and emulate the Tutor/Ritual lines to Will that make TPS so dangerous in the mid-game. The addition of some number of Rituals makes playing against Doomsday extremely problematic for opponents who cannot properly estimate the deck's capabilities. Sometimes the opponent attempts to take a hard control role against a Doomsday deck playing 17 pieces of disruption (and fails miserably). Other times they attempt to aggro (whether with actual creatures or via a partial combo ala Tinker/Jace) only to stare down a sequence of fast mana into bombs.

In the lists that I play (0-1 Dark Ritual), 14+ disruption, I find that Time Walk, the 4th Thoughtseize, Gitaxian Probe, and Sensei's Divining Top often compete for the 60th slot. Smmenen has been playing both Time Walk and SDT in his list for VSL. It's not an auto-include, but it's a fine card and nobody will fault you for including one (although multiples are harder to justify given its vulnerabilities).

I don't think that the 50 minute rounds matter much. It's not the 50 minute rounds that are what enable Doomsday to be easier to pilot, it's that on critical sections (such as how to resolve a Brainstorm, or should I go for this Doomsday here), you can take 8 minutes to figure out the exact right line. Everything else can be played a normal pace (maybe faster, since Doomsday cares so very little about what is actually going on with the other side of the board). Other people do well it in 2-mans, 8-mans, and daily events. Doomsday also picks up top8s here and there in paper Vintage. It just gains more than most decks from a chess clock vs the normal slow play rules.

Steve, was the classic Doomsday for Will+Tendrils an oversight (Recall, Lotus, Ritual, Will, Tendrils) in the game 1 where you eventually found a Brainstorm into Lab Man kill?

Did you actually consider the utility of Spell Pierce against Workshops? The card is marginal on the draw (cannot counter anything until turn 3, by which time the opp has loads of mana or is into playing guys) and on the play, is trading 1 for 1 with Spheres what's going to win you the game? It cannot counter the most important card (Lodestone Golem), which at least Thoughtseize has a chance at on the play (both are worthless on the draw).

I'd much rather have a Thoughtseize in my deck for game 1 than a Spell Pierce, even against Workshops.

Well, with that hand I would almost certainly Imp Seal for a Lotus into a turn 2 of Lotus, Rit, Rit, Doomsday, Preordain, Recall, Lotus, Ritual, Will, Ritual, Lotus, Preordain, Tendrils with Flusterstorm up the whole time.

Xantid Swarm is very good. I'd also suggest making sure you're maxing on Mental Misstep and Thoughtseize (cards that both fight Remora as well as resolve Swarm) along with sideboarded Xantid Swarm.

Yawgmoth
BBB

At the end of your turn, if you did not activate an ability of Yawgmoth, lose the game. This ability cannot be countered.

+1: Thoughtseize
+1: Smallpox
-X: Skeletal Scrying.
-6: Yawgmoth's Will

Starting Loyalty: 5

Yawgmoth is always painful to use. You lose something in the process. If you cowardly avoid the pain, he executes you. He is also broken, as evidenced by costing BBB.

While I sympathize with not wanting to be taken advantage of, the fact of the matter is that you already dumped several hundred dollars (at least) into virtual cardboard crack. The rocks you get for your money are now a little worse, but does that make you any less addicted?

I bought into mtgo vintage so I could actually play Vintage. The payout isn't really a priority for me.

I've been having reasonable success on mtgo with 3 draw4s in an otherwise stock GrimLong list. It's incredibly relevant to be able to play a single spell on turn 1-2 that draws 4 cards. Opponents cannot let it resolve, and if it does resolve, comboing that turn (sometimes) or next turn is assured. That it can be played both off rituals (when comboing or when you have spare rituals on t1) and with 3 black sources (moxen and lands) after t1 is huge.

4-0'd a daily and split (3-0, concede to split packs) a couple times with this list:

// Doomsday by dmotf

4 Doomsday
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll

1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush
4 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Gitaxian Probe

4 Force of Will
4 Flusterstorm
3 Mental Misstep
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Hurkyl's Recall

1 Black Lotus
1 Fastbond
2 Dark Ritual
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet

2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 Island

SB: 3 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 Teferi's Realm
SB: 1 Island
SB: 1 Mox Emerald
SB: 1 Sol Ring
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Extirpate

Sideboarding has been:

vs Workshops:

-4 Flusterstorm
-3 Mental Misstep
-1 Duress
-1 Thoughtseize

+3 Hurkyl's Recall
+3 Teferi's Realm
+1 Island
+1 Mox Emerald
+1 Sol Ring

vs Blue Decks

-1 Hurkyl's Recall

+1 Extirpate

vs Dredge

-1 Thoughtseize
-1 Duress
-4 Flusterstorm
-1 Hurkyl's Recall

+4 Leyline of the Void
+1 Yixlid Jailer
+1 Extirpate
+1 Mox Emerald

Some notes:

I've been looking for Fastbond/Gush piles more frequently resulting in better protected kills. I don't think I'm still doing this enough, but as I do it more, I'm getting rewarded.

There are a lot of lands maindeck, (22 total manasources!!) but this isn't a bad thing. Access to Hurkyl's Recall isn't nearly as important as mana to play the Hurkyl's Recall. I'm certain that the 15th land over a 2nd Hurkyl's Recall is correct, since with more lands I can also cast things like tutors and Doomsday more often around Spheres/Chalices.

I'm not entirely sold on the second Dark Ritual (it might eventually become Hurkyl's Recall), but I haven't played enough games on the draw against workshops to tell yet. It's also possible that maybe I should be playing 22 mana sources, 2 h.recall maindeck and the cut lies somewhere else. The fewer Rituals you play, the more of a Gushbond deck this becomes (out of necessity).

Gitaxian Probe often allows me to win games where I'd otherwise need to burn/resolve Yawgmoth's Will from a Doomsday pile (which isn't always possible).

I'm also pretty sure that H.Recall isn't included because it's insane online right now (north of 60 tix each).

Night's Whisper is a tradeoff against Dark Confidant.

A few things about it:

If someone Flusterstroms a Night's Whisper, you are ecstatic. This is roughly equivalent to them Flusterstorming a Preordain in other decks. You can now resolve a bomb.

Dark Confidant has to stick around a long time to draw the same number of cards as Night's Whisper. The lifeloss matters after a couple attacks (meaning you usually need no storm generator at all, just to find a Tendrils), but in the meantime, your opponent is doing things and this deck has no defensive countermagic to stop Oath, vaultkey, Jace, or another Will deck from executing.

Being a creature is particularly worrisome in vintage right now. As a ritual deck, getting your draw engine dealt with via Abrupt Decay/Lightning Bolt is really bad.

Edit: thanks Steve!

It's also worth noting that this has a proven track record in Vintage history. TTS (The Tropical Storm) was an alternate approach vs Bob Doomsday (which I think only AD played) and Next Level Doomsday in the last Gush era. The premise of the deck was just a combo-control deck with Rituals and Gushes. It played things like Yawgmoth's Bargain, Necropotence that NLD eschewed and most of the time was just a Gush storm deck. It included a 1-of Doomsday as an alternate plan of attack in the face of extreme hate as well as a non-graveyard-dependent kill condition.

Most useful to me has been the situation vs tangle wire. Either bouncing permanents with wire on the stack on my turn or the situation where wire + strips + pressure allows me a single land drop to combo. Both of these occur frequently enough that I never side out Ritual vs workshops. Being able to Ritual into doomsday or will is absolutely huge when you really need to win *right now*.

off-topic: I should not write things on my phone, lest a future employer see written word such as this.

on-topic: I would clarify that the training wheels argument applies to the Gush Control deck that wins by casting Doomsday. The 4 Ritual deck featuring Necropotence and possibly Timetwister plays in a very different manner due to the Rituals. The Rituals and additional threats give Ritual Doomsday another set of strengths and weaknesses when compared to Gush Control Doomsday (and they still share some core strengths and weaknesses). The sideboards that the two decks play look very different. The strategic blending that might occur with Gush Control Doomsday is extremely different from what happens to Ritual Doomsday.

If I can find time, I'd like to compare and contrast the two decks more formally (I find both incredibly interesting). As a teaser, at the core of the discussion isn't about Dark Ritual vs extra disruption. Rather, the conflict is between the competing philosophies of complete domination of your opponent prior to winning versus tactical probing (general disruption, lightweight win condition) and maximizing opportunity (Dark Rituals, extra threats, maximum offensive potential disruption).

off-topic: Btw, all who worship at the altar of the skull should write Ritual with a capitalized 'r'. Show some respect.

Please add me to the wait list. My name is Brandon Adams.

At the same time, Cavern will allow some number of uncounterable Lodestone Golems.

I feel like you'd just grab Regrowth or Yawgmoth's Will.

This deck won an event in Hanau over the weekend.

http://pmtg-forum.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=7964&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=3

Interestingly enough, an Oath-Tendrils-Will deck also won a 100+ person highland event at the same site.