this deck is very very interesting...when we built this, we wanted to pwn gifts, and thats what it does...gifts has really no answer except to counter the crucible, and in testing i countered three of them and still lost when he played the fourth...

Life of the loam is a "nifty" card but isnt needed in this deck...
it wins faster then you loaming them...

the only answer to a chalice 1 is a .......ummm....an early mox monkey I guess?...

I put memnarch in my deck at the myriad tourney just because i figured id see travis in the t8, and it won me game two and i lost game three because i made an error and let a crop rotation resolve(holding like 3 forces and a mana severence with a belcher in play!!) and he capitallized and fetched out a glacial chasm...

Your biggest factor when playing this deck is surprise...Play it where it never has been seen...at philly in the t8 this noob playing stax could've killed him like fifteen minutes before travis conceded if just wasted his chasm...He didnt know how to play agianst this deck as most people dont...

Its fun so if youre gonna make it...have fun...just make sure you have an answer to a needle on mox monkey, and a needle on b-ring...

Type 4 is the BOMB!!!!
I wish i played at the tournament but i guess top 4 is more important....
Practically everyone has there own t4 stack around here...
I really like Ray's stack with every card altered....

you'd be pro if you made those foil!

i really like this deck....
I think it has potential but the New England Metagame is known for its control....
I think i might run this at a mox tourney this weekend, but i dont know if its good enough for day 2 of gp philly....

the jet looked pretty nice so i gave it to hatcher as a thank u...

brass man didnt have his printed on cards though...during one of his matches he took out the drana mains to show me and he had REAL ENGLISH DRAINS behind them...

I would love it if some one could like email me the image for making the proxies and stuff (i suck at computers and the whole downloading thing...)


Are those foil??its hard to tell...

Doubling season + monkey cage...Our new secret tech..(just dont tell anybody!)

ya but we couldnt find them the night before......
efin doubling season...
I still think that the automation thing should have made the list...
SICK GOOD!

hmm....well first off why is ground seal (maybe sacred ground?) in this deck..or associated with this deck...

2. have you actually tested this against other "Metagame decks"? like seriously...(i'm guessing not, because workshop gives this deck a real run for the money)

At waterbury I ended up playing a somewhat similar build with maindeck RacknRuin and Maindeck shamaan (i love u null rob)....

Round two i played shop....
he strip/crucibled me turn two and i had echoing truth, so i drained it after I bounced it....a juggernaut swung me down to 3 after about 3 turns.....Eot I gifted for Rack and Ruin, Yawg will, Recoup and burning wish......After thinking for it for a while, he gave me the burning wish and recoup...
 Â             On my turn i b.wished for echoing ruin and ruined the juggernaut.....he played land go, I untapped, recouped echoing ruin and took out 2 chalices(1 and 0)...
next turn dropped lots of moxes and lotus and won the game which wouldnt of happened if echoin ruin wasnt in the board...

3. why the need for darkblast and the over-emphisized match-up v. CS.....
Gifts beats CS...Cs isnt very good any more, due to the mass amounts of gifts and (sigh) Darkblast....It really isnt that good....Engineered Plague wipes the board forEVER....it smashes fish and fcg....beats Wtf and birdshit...(you may laugh but I had to Play birdshit in the top 8 of waterbury..and it went into game 3 and i killed meddling mages with two EP....I wish someone would write a report *V.longbow*...) darkblast requries you to skip a card draw which is gifts WORST ENEMY!!!!...the point in gifts is to develop card advantage, answer whatever you play and then stabilize and drop a gifts NOT given.(unless 1st turn tinker sounds pretty good)...

4. Why cunning wish?
I tested with it and it really isnt that good...I wish that the wish was a card drawing spell when i draw it and then i get a card drawing spell and waste a bunch of mana while they play a threat....what it comes down to is that its a wasted slot...what are you afraid of..YOUR ENTIRE MD IS FULL OF ANSWERS!!! dont waste cards to go find answers when you already have them maindeck.....If you think about it, most of the time you're probably wishing for a RnR or a rushing river....wh not just play the RnR or Bounce card MD??
And what the hell is Vamp Tutor in the board gonna do for you...now thats 3 cards and two life for EXTREME card disadvantage. You might as well just play the vamp MD to find you the answers you need instead of wasting three mana and a wish....

5. Merchant scroll is a good card, just not in bunches. I play one so i can find the one ancestral or the one MD echoing truth...(or a needed gifts if it comes down to it...)
merchant scroll is blue so it's never a bad card and gets rid of the collossusss in hand when you go find tfk....

6. i like the 3/3 gifts/tfk (even though i play 2/4)....

All in all, it comes down to your own personal prefence...Ive been playing gifts for a good 4mos..and i personally like belcher severence...I post my list (3rd at waterbury and 1st at amox tourney, so no it isnt just another "random gifts deck with someone who doesnt know what they're talking about"...)....

i played this at a tournament and got 3rd except that i played eternal witness, fof, recoup and 1 krosan reclemation......get will good game.....

wait i don't get it....
SO you skip you're next turn v. stax(saying they have a stax in play) and untap it...and say go ahead....can you skip your turn if the time vault is untapped? whats the new errata?

it won you a game huh? wat did you go?

no deep analysis is REALLY bad unless you're playing drain.....
Dark confiednt is house seeing that the highest casting card is force....(top + BOB =  )

besides the phids and bobs he plays dimir cutpurse which is pretty good(surprisingly)...
Circu peeku is really good too seeing that a cutpurse hits two cards and we're playing a control deck....duh...

Withered wretch is the maideck BOMB...its smashes gifts and makes it cry  .....
cabal therapy hits any sort of threats in their hands, and animating a mishra's factory and saccing it to a therapy with crucible in play is pretty hawt too....

after sb it brings in annuls bebs energy flux's null rods and Arcane lab....
This is the best (to my knowledge) ub fish ddeck out there(o ya theres a tog in there too!)....you'll see when we smash face this weekend at samite's tourney with that.....usa phid and arti-smash........

Till then....

Our (team nuts and staff off twice) list is a blue black bulid similar to what hatcher took to the top 16 of waterbury....

it currently runs 3 phids
2 dark confidents
all the broken cards
4 cabal therepies and other controling cards....

if any1 wants the list PM me....

(IT IS GOOD)(KIND OF)

Like of been saying.........Win game or draw some cards........Hmmm.......

i'd give up card advantage for a first/second turn darksteel colossuss....
expecially if the two cards im holding are force and blue card....
congrats on the dutch finish....(i have no idea whats goin on but good job....)

Have you tested both belcher and flamevault?....(if u did, which did you like better)

I've tested both severence belcher and flamevault and i have to say that i like the belcher more...(pages 1-3)

True...True...
my favorite play is fighting for a tinker, letting it resolve and merchant scrolling for echoing truth targeting the colossus.....

that would be amazing......I played "richard_Garfield" one time on apprentice....and i was thinking..."why wouldn't he just play on mtgo and why would he be playing meandeck_gifts??, and why would i beat heim like five times in a row....i'm the original Jigglypuff and i dont think anyone'll want to steal my name......(yet!)

1. Kyle leith is a stalling newb ( sry kyle)

2. Null rod is house...i believe the best decks in the format is anything playing gifts and Stax...

3. Oath should'nt lose to fish...so no null rods and i'd probably play annul main....How it is bad, seeing  how it counters all the broken artifacts and enchantments

4. kyle got lucky day two and i felt bad that our team scrubbed out(WW, NOT OFF TWICE!!)

5. Vial is bad right now anyway....dont see alot of fishing taking top8 spots....

6. Kyle leith is a stalling newb...

Needle stops both(unless you're like me and play 2xGoriilla shamana main along with a RnR). but i was able to win because i could lay off the combo in two turns instead of waiting for both to be played at the same time. The belcher could be played turn 4(saying without moxes or drain mana) and the severence could be played turn 5 and activated.

I guess you could also win turn 4 if you dropped a 2nd turn vault turn 4 fusilide....(saying no acceleration)...

not going to argue about this for the millionth time but just stick to what you liike.....
I like belcher (because its kowal's korean foil)....because it is chanced... it's like russian roullette......Or as that black guy said in that movie "GO B1G OR GO HOME"....I like to go big and that's what belcher does for me...

I'm currently running 1 shaman and 1 maindeck REB and an echoing truth....

good....you'll be my warm up for the night.....

i played tog for over 2and a half years so stfu.....

tog isnt food anymore.....not while contrlol is around with reb, pithing needle and a dozen other hate cards, coming from tormod's crypt to echoing truth once you're lethal to even a cunning wish for smother or any other removal card while they force your drain...

im going to re-emphisize the fact that belcher can be played out over turns...where flame vault needs to pull it off in one turn...

I was testing last nite against shop...
I third turned severenced(holding 3 lands and a fetch...i left in an undergrround sea...)
drew brainstorm into tinker into win...
 
My opponent was holding a next turn pithing needle...
If i was playing vault i'd be fucked in the ass...

another game i was holding severence and top decked recall(belcher, time walk, fetch land)...with two untapped, i time walked, untapped drew a land, fetched played belcher, and passed turn, forced a tangle wire and a needle, drew a land to play severence and belch, while he was holding a next turn null rod...

again the fact that belcher can be played out instead of being forced into one turn is what is going to make it superior...Yeah the whole Eot skip my turn take and extra is cool and all (simetimes really useful)...the belcher is the way to go...Look at the brassman at chicago...0-2...

the amount of tutors is irrelevant...if you vamp or mystical then the dredge ability is pointless and if you brainstorm than you just wasted 6 cards to do your "neat little trick", wher 6 cards usually wins the game...

you could play this and go 1-6 or you could play strait up tog and probably fo 6-1...it's up to u....

I do like the bazaar/ life of the loam, but i'd rather just have 3 squees in hand....

not trying to be a jackass but you have no idea what the hell you're talking about...when did you build this? you said you wnet 4-1 against it but c'mon? 1st and 2nd turn tinker with double force back up?? what kind of game is that??i could see if you'n travis played 25 games but u only played maybe 4-6...



and i'm the only one that ever called u that!

i'm pretty sure it was on the list...

hmm......life of the loam or other good card tog usually runs....
thats a hard one.....(note the sarcasm...)


you might as well be traumatizing yourself.....

no....no it shouldn't be.....this deck answers the threats you out out...if you have a threat on the board then why would i let you draw three cards while i answer your threat........

this is not a fish build....welll maybe it is but its not the traditional build...its more like 4cc weenie

I'm just gonna toss this out there......(for like the millionth time)

Neither deck is bad, but One has to be better or more suitable...
People are saying that "ooh time vault beats stax"
That is incorrect...(If you say otherwise  You....ARe...a..noob...) any good stax deck will run mox monkey and eat the vault, or pithing needle it(where belcher would'nt help much either...

flame fusilide can be cast straight up after a Darksteel Beat and win the game..(im glad i have a foil one..), where a belcher could probably do ALMOST the same thing...

If you have only one piece availible at any time...belcher can come shining through with an EOT belch for 6...where a vault probably wouldnt help race against a juggernaut...

fusillide can take care of welders and fish but belcher can do the same and you'd end up with a mox and in both situations both combo pieces would be in the yard...

I'm gonna end this with some stats...In the top 4 at waterbury crossman belched for 12 cards before hitting a volc and winning a game....

I personally like the belcher combo/ because half the time when im desperate i'll tinker for it and hope to get lucky with 5-6 lands left..it's your preference and your choice....you choose whether you go 6-1 or 1-6...(not saying that one deck will do better), but saying how well you're ready for the meta...Both combos die to pithing needle( where Fusillide and severence can be SOMEWHAT useful...where one biffs and the other means drawing nothing but business....thats right: business...what a funny word to be associated with magic...)

Any Who..(again)....they both die to needle, but belcher can hit through a supression field(which is surprisingly played)...

If you look at the deck lists you'll see that the oter 73 cards ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!!!


I know that it can survive in any meta...but how easily the deck can answer the threats of the oppenent while holding the cards is my problem...belcher takes care of platinum angel, (where flame might be able to do the same..) and flame wwipes the board of fish..or takes out a FIXED amount of life points (where belcher is Random, but could pay off )

...i said i was going to end about fourteen minutes ago so'll make it short and sweet ...play whatever works for you in the metagame you're going into...

Can't we all just be nice...muc is for bitches.(i guess)....


well it does run a cunning wish that finds rebuild...I guess tha counts as an answer....


Anyway...this (I believe) will be making an appearence at some of the Tourney's around New England and will be played by the best players around..(Team Nuts and Staff Off twice...duh..)...but i think if im gonna make the build i should probably be like hatcher and run disrupt... ...jk...

just a couple of days till the Samite's tourney..(where we'll be filling out 2-0 matchslips)...

any other secret tech form anyone else who inovates bad.?? (which isn't md cause i guess they're Pro..So ive heard...)

the dutch meta is ENTIRELy different from the usa meta...

NE is ususally all about control...with the hint of workshop...

out west (for what ive heard) is more of a shop/oath infested area where down south stax is everywhere...

In Jersey there is a huge meta of fish...where gifts should smash house....

but in chicago the mass amounts of oath could give gifts a run for the money...

it depends on the metagame whether the deck can prevail, and the steps you take to beat the meta, whether through the maindeck reb/RnR/m.monkey or EE

Saying that onbe deck housed the dutch meta doesnt mean that it is NESSECCARILY the best deck(in our case the better kill), but was fine tuned and was a right call....