Yes, ofcourse .

Legacy Dutch-Tournament report.

I’ve played 4C Landstill for about 5 months now. After a few weeks playing with this deck I thought I’d found all tactics and skillinvolved tricks and everything but I was wrong... I recently think I now know all tricks involved 4C Landstill. I can auto-pilot this deck. (I don’t auto-pilot at tournaments).
Anyway, I was going to a 30man Legacy-Tournament, so I envited a friend the day before to play some magic and test our decks. He arrived at my place at 8 o’clock and we first (2 hours) played some Loam vs Thresh and listened to music and have a drink. After that we started playing with our decks which we would be going to use in the tournament tomorrow. We ended up playing magic ‘till 6 in the morning. After 3(!) hours of sleep and a quick breakfast and some energydrinks we went to Utrecht. We met up in Arnhem with a friend of mine and we arrived at 11.15am. The organisotor didn’t have a computer, so from round1 I do all the maths involving pairings. (I’ve played competative chess for 8 years and study Mathematics for 3 years so I know how to create fair pairings in ‘only’ 10 minutes).

By the way, I played 4C Landstill with the following list which I really believe to be the best available maybe possible with some changes in the sideboard which I will explain later.

4c Landstill:
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
3 Fact or Fiction
3 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Perncious Deed
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Disenchant
1 Krosan Grip

3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra’s Factory
3 Nantuko Monastery
3 Wasteland

SB:
4 Hydroblast
4 Engineered Plague
4 Meddling Mage
3 Duress

The 1-1 Grip/Disenchant looks random and it surely is. I can’t deceide which one is better and I do want to play 2 of those. The color mana doesn’t matter during all games yesterday. So was the extra mana Grip costs or the fact Grip couldn’t be countered. I only felt a bit more safe when I had Grip in hand against Mono Blue, even when I had 2 backupcounters ready. It does matter against CouterTop. I used every sideboard card during the tournament so this sideboard is certainly good. But one could meta-game. If you play against a lot of Combo, then you should certainly play this sideboard because you are going to side all 15(!) cards in. But if you play against a lot Loam decks, then you should play 4 Leyline of the Void which are very good against decks like Loam and Ichorid.

Now follows a briefly report
Round 1 versus Fast Belcher
I knew my opponent played Fast Belcher with at least 4 Red Elemental Blasts.
I kept the Island + Stifle + Force + 4 random cards in hand. I Force a key-connecting spell and win easily.
After thoroughly testing the other day we agreed the best to side against Empty the Warrens based combo is to side in all your 15 cards. Hydroblast hardcounters mostly about 8~12 cards like Burning Wish, Rite of Flame and/or Desperate Ritual while pichable to Force and ofcourse better than Diabolic Edict. Furthermore, Plague kills all goblins so Empty the Warrens at any number later than turn1~2 is way too dangerous for the combo player. Meaning the combo player must kill you with their alternate win-condition which is obviously slower and less consistent/dangerous for you. Be it Belcher or Tendrils. Duress and Meddling Mage are obviously good against Combo. I side out: 2 Diabolic Edict, 2 Crucible of Worlds, 1 Disenchant, 1 Krosan Grip, 1 Swords to Plowshares, 2 Standstill, 3 Pernicious Deed, 1 Fact or Fiction, 1 Nantuko Monastery and 1 Mishra’s Factory.
Postboard you have 5 cards against EtW. Leave 3 Stp against Tomb of Urami and Xantid Swarm which is too good if not dealt with. One could say I have a transformational sideboard because postboard, 4c Landstill is now Hate.dec against any combo.
Game2 was easy because I started with Duress, then Meddling Mage and so on...

Round2 against Mono Blue Control.
I’ve tested Mono Blue thorougly so I know exactly how to play against it. This was a very bad list, which played a random 1cc creature to deal with Goblin Lackey and Gilded Drake + Unsummon-effects. Game1 I didn’t play a single spell, because I kept a 3 Mishra’s Factory hand and did nothing but beating. Dangerous in the face of Back to Basics, but I had Krosan Grip backup (no green mana though).
Game2 endures a bit longer. He plays Pithing Neelde on Pernicious Deed, then plays Morphling. I Disenchant Pneelde and blow Deed for 5 and win thereafter. Opponent couldn’t find B2B, but he didn’t play any drawers or handfixer. I said the flavor text of Back to Basics (A ruler wears a crown, while the rest wear hats, but which one would you rather have when it's raining) when he drawed his last card to answer but he didn't understand . This could’ve been a difficult matchup though...

Round3 against Madness.
I got a small bit overconfident. And exhaustion takes a grip. And I got distracted by my teammate at the other side of the table. So I made a big playmistake game1 which lost me the first game. Game2 he goes crazy with 2 force back up so I lose my first games and the round. (Stupid madness...)

Round4 against Elves.
Played against a friend, so I again know his entire decklist. I knew Winter Orb and Caller of the Claw are his only threads preboard besides elves ofcourse. I win game 1 and 2 (with Plague) pretty easily. This is no auto-win, his decklist is good.

Round5 against some Loam deck.
Intentional Draw to make sure we both enter T8 (nobody had 12 points by now). We play two game, primarily because I wanted to know what exactly did he play and how good he was. He played pretty smooth, and I got to know his sideboard which was my primary objective. He did wonder why I didn’t side mine... (lost these games though.)

T8 against 35land stax like deck.
This guy should’ve finished me about ten times but he was soo incompetent, the entire match I wondered how he ever made T8. I later heard a story he drawed Tabernacle just after the opponent EtW’ed for 22 and more things. It did took me than 60 minutes to finish him though. He just didn’t think about scooping.

It was now 8 o’clock and I got pretty tired, so I drank another energydrink and traded some cards and prepared for the next match.

T4 against WGB disruption deck (picula like?).
I liked the opponents deck. He played cards like Vindicate, Tarmogoyf, Hymn, Dark Confidant, Stp, Sinkhole, Dark Ritual, Hypnotic Specter and Thoughtseize. (hint: I won)
While the other match endured soo long, this one plays so fast and smootly. We both know our decks very well, and we both don’t do anything stupid.
Game1. He disrupts some, I Stifle a Wasteland and at about turn 5 he plays a second Dark Confidant + Tarmogoyf in one turn. Next turn, I play Deed and activate for 2. Then he plays Tarmo nr2 in his turn and I play Nantuko Monastery. His Tarmo was 5/6 so I don’t block ‘cause I have Monastery nr2 in hand. I drop to 5 life, play my second Monastery and having enough mana to bring to life both. He attacks, I block, he plays Stp, I force and before I choose to pick a blue card, he scoopes.
Game2 is a classic example who begins does matter, ‘cause if I had started I would’ve certainly won this match. I had in hand: Counterspell, Fact, Crucible and a card and 3 land. I opens with something like ThoughtseizeCruci, then Wasteland, Vindicate, Sinkhole and thoughtseizeFact. And I just keep playing another land; I so love playing 24 lands . I do get colorscrewed and we both end up topdeckmode. He drawes his thread first, I don’t get the white mana for Stp, and he wins. I did learn he played Pithing Needle just in the end.
Game3. I knew I could certainly win, but I also oversee the possibility he just disrupted me too badly. It goes like this, I force a turn1 Specter, Waste his second land leaving him with only one hand. He then draws no extra land for 5 turns which were just enough for me to ensure my win. I had drawn just the cards I needed (like Deed, Edict, Stp, Counterspell, Land etc). About everything was fine. I waste his nother land and counter the thread he played with Dark Ritual. By the time he gots his second land, I have an active Monastery and he scoops soon after.

So I win T8 and T4. And so had my teammate from Nijmegen (we are soon creating a Legacy Team Nijmegen with 5 man) with TES. So I don’t have to fight that other Loam deck. We Intentional Draw and split pot at 9pm, though I had surely the better odds against TES (we playtested at least 6 hours the other day/night). Especially postboard.

Top8 was Mono Blue, fast Belcher, Picula, BWG Loam, Madness, random Loam, TES and 4C Landstill.

It was a succesfull tournament where we, Kris and Matteus, made T8 and finish equally 1st, binging the prizes back to Nijmegen.

Hope you enjoy my writings, Kris.

I have also played some games on MWS. I never really liked fish, it almost never beat me, and it just not had it all. In every fish list were some cards I did not like. Creatures without abilities, cards working against each other, chalice only to play it out on 0 at the first turn, etc, etc. But now with Dark Confidant things are different. I searched for a fish list containing Meddling Mage (good card) and Dark Confidant (good card), and surprisingly I only found 9 decks. Strange, because UWBfish can play these creatures. Well, I found a deck, from David Reitnauer (never heard of before). I began testing this deck. I immediately liked it. It doesn't have stupid cards that do nothing. It worked together, unlike most fishbuilds.

I have also tested SS, and it sucks. It doesn't work together, it plays too less creatures. I believe the only good fishbuild is the deck I presented above. I can't think of anything to change, or any card that I miss. One could change one Stifle to an Swords to Plowshares, if you play in an aggrometa. Mystical can search for answers against creatures then. Kataki is also very good. And the sideboard owns. It has something versus everything.

Kras

Yeah, ok. I should rephrase my question. What is the best competative non fully-powered stable deck at this moment.

Btw, the original question was also pretty interesting...

Kras

Ofcourse, now I see. I didn't get it.

Dragon is not very budget. Many play all moxen, and the bazaars are pretty expensive too.

The most viable budget decks I have found are:
FCG
BS
Fish
Suicide Black

GAT? The only grow-a-tog decks I know are fully powered. Can you pm me a list?

And what is entomb for a deck?

Kras

I have been testing some decks and I really like BS again. It has answers to about everything. I have played it before. An old list. Has it really been evolved? Is there a best list?

It teared SS apart.

Kras

I live in the Netherlands, there are no proxy tournaments here. Though I believe it
would do good to our Vintage tournaments.

The first two replies suggested U/W Fish. As I expected. U/W Fish is certainly a
potential killerdeck. Now with Jotun Grunt it has about everything. I do like the
version with black.

Where are the lists of Gencon? What is Gencon?


Whateverworks:
I can play combo, and I have certainly tested Doomsday. I find it difficult to
play with (like everyone), but I don't think its good. It gets screwed on all
sides. Everything hurts so much. I don't like it.

Why would Time Spiral change something? Am I missing something?


I don't have to play a completely unpowered deck. Rather not, I always want to play
Lotus and the colored moxen.


Kras

I forgot to tell, that I do not want to sell everything, but just a few cards (off color moxen etc), so I can play one deck with all power. So I need a deck(list) with not all power pieces in it.

Oath contains all powerpieces. And I don't want to play it powerless. Or just with a few random power pieces in it. I want to have the deck completely.

The meta here is random. So one finds elves, gobbo's, fundecks but also fullpowered drain decks, combo and shops.

What is the best competative non fully-powered stable deck ever?

Why would I ask this question? Well, the answer is easy. I am full powered and I
may need (more) cash someday (this is not spam to sell anything!), but I do want
to continue playing magic. All Tier1 decks are fullpowered, but I never really
could choose one and continue playing it. I have played intensively:
(in this order)
- Aggro
- Suicide Black
- Bird Shit
- Control Slaver
- Psychatog
- Gifts
- TPS

Pretty standard line-up, is it not?

Well, I have thought a lot about everything and I just want to know which deck is
potential to become my new deck when I decide to sell a few cards and play a less
expensive deck.

I have found these:
- Fish (I believe U/W is best in a random meta, what do you think?),
- Bird Shit (Played it before, like it, very good),
- EBA (still pretty expensive though),
- FCG,
- Friggorid (I HATE this deck),
- Goblins or RDW or Mountains Win Again,
- Parfait,
- Psychatog, or other random Drain.deck,
- Suicide Black (Still good imho),
- Madness decks,
- Agrro decks.

Well, now is my question: Which of these (or do you know any other) do you believe
to be the best in a random meta (my meta is random)?

Thanks again for the multiple replies.

You have again wrote a lot, MaxxMatt. About your list. I have a few questions why you play that list. Webmaster
suggests the same skeleton as I do. Talking about a decklist is an other thread so I will PM you.

--
only if that damn 4-5 slots could be filled with stable and good cards, instead of being filled with average ones.
--
Yes, I have thought about this too. Maybe in 37 seven years there would have been enough expansions of magicsets
to have better cards for those 4-5 slots, and even that I doubt.


Webster, I know morphling.de, but I didn't know I could search for decklists. Or do I have to search every tournament
for TPS lists? Is there an option to find them all?

I have tested with 4 Bobs MB, but I definately didn't like it. It is not the problem of life-loss, but drawing them
at bad times. Okay, a first turn Bob is good, but you also draw them if you need to (because of the life-loss) combo
out and then they stall you of even will fizzle you out. Though Confidant SB is very good. It replaces all bad cards
in that matchup and creates good/better matchups.

Greetings Kras.

I just wrote a pretty long reply, but my f#@(%^ windowscomputer lacked to get it to TMD and now i've lost it and I don't have a safe.

Well, anyways, I'm not going to write it fully again. This is in short what I wanted to say:
To MaxxMatt:
I don't fully agree with everything. The skeleton of TPS isn't always like that. Normally I run 14 land sources because I like to have a land drop the first two or three turns; wasteland is so common around here. Furthermore, I never play more than 1 Cunning Wish. It is necessary but I would rather not draw it.

Q: Why would you play 2 Gifts? I run one. I like drawing it, but I never want two in hand. You don't have enough broken cards in your deck to let Gifts resolve twice. And you cannot go that broken with it as Gifts can; you don't (want to) run Recoup because you don't have Drains and therefor not enough mana.

I agree Time Spiral and Frantich Search aren't very broken on thereself, but they do smoothen the deck and it has some great sinergy with many cards in the deck. I switch them often and they do get sided out usually, because they are weak. I'm thinking about taking a new look at the deck to replace some cards. But that won't be now; I am too busy at the moment with my colleges and exams.

Q: Would you run Wheel of Fortune? You need a Volcanic MB. Would you sacrifice TPS' strong manabase for one (or two (which)) Red card(s)? Time Spiral does the same and more for blue mana, though a bit more expensive.

My skeleton of TPS always look like this:
27 or 28 Mana Sources,
9 Protection,
6 to 8 Bombs,
6 Fixers and draws,
3 Tutors,
3 Winners,
1 Bounce.
That leaves about 3 to 5 cards left to either metagame or smoothen your own deck. What should these be?

Smmenen:
Yes, the legalization of Grim Tutor has had a major influence on Tendrils Combo. But I don't own any Grim Tutors. I regret that.

My playstile definately longs towards TPS, and not to Grim Long. I would consider IT though.

As MaxxMatt and Kobefan says, It depends on you playstile and Metagame. I would also add that the three decks each have their advantages and disadvantages. I don't think TPS is in every way obsolete. TPS can fight better through (rephrase: prevent) enemy hate than Grim Long. Also IT can use Intuition to play around it.

Remand is worth testing in my environment.

Greetings Kras.

{Deck}[Combo] : TPS or Grim Long or IT?

Looking at the latest Results of Rochester at SCG I am pretty stunned to
see not one TPS list present. Though 14 Grim Long decks showed up. And 7
IT-lists. But Grim Long has Top8'ed three times, while IT has not. What
is the reason behind this? Could it be that Grim Long is more popular? Or
is it simply better?

I am currently playing TPS, the following:
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Enchantments
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Cunning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force Of Will
1 Frantic Search
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Mind's Desire
2 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
3 Island
2 Swamp

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
1 Darksteel Colussus
1 Brain Freeze
1 Stifle
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Misdirection
1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Dark Confidant
2 Tormod's Crypt

Created by myself. It is not very exceptional; it is very common. I have a
full list of Match-up analysis with sideboard choises.

The only problem is, I don't own Grim Tutors. The prices have gone skyhigh
suddenly, and I am not interested in buying them so expensive.

The advantages of Grim Long:
i) It is faster,
ii) It has more Tutors (obviously), so it can find a way to avoid hate.

The disadvantages of Grim Long:
i) It has little answers to hate,
ii) Easier to disrupt; weaker mana-base.

The advantages of TPS:
i) It plays Force of Will MB,
ii) It is more consistent.

The disadvantages of TPS:
i) It is slower,

Well, both decks have very much trouble with a Chalice @ 1. Seriously, a
Chalice @ 1 is by far the worst thing that can happen. Then follows:
Chalice @ 0, Pyrostatic Pillar, Arcance Lab and all other known anti-combo
cards like Wasteland, Duress, Mana Drain, Tormod's Crypt andsoforth.

And now my question is:
i) Is Grim Long strictly better than TPS?
ii) Or is it better in this environment at this moment?

I intend to open a discussion about comborelated decks. I am not talking
about Two-Land Belcher, Dragon or Gifts because they are pretty different
or just worse.

Greetings Kras.

I'm playing TPS and/or IT and/or Grim Long Combo at the moment. And I have tested a lot. But there is something I cannot have a good vision or grip at. I don't know what's best.

Against which decks is it good to have Confidant in your Maindeck?

Versus almost all decks, it is good to have it in play. But that's a difference. You don't want to draw it while you are trying to combo-out.

But why don't we all play it MB? You lose a few games due to Confidant, but you also win games from him. But it is very difficult to see exactly how many wins and loses it provides. Does anyone has a good percentage?

What's your opinion about this subject?

I like the deck, but does it has potention?

Don't remove Demonic Tutor from your list, that card is so good.

Don't you need more strong cards. Ancestral Recall, Time Walk and more moxes are always welcome. I think this deck can support 5 moxes, because you have enough spells that have colorless mana in the casting cost.

[Q]: There are two decks with Life from the Loam. Those who run Bazaar, and those who run Chains?

Greetings Kras

firestorm is bad because you play small creatures yourself.

i have played versus black fish yesterday on mws. (i play gifts control) it was very close. i lost first game, because he had 3 wastelands and 1 strip mine. one less and i would still have won. second game, i go broken with turn 1 dsc and force backup. game 3 was close again, i was screwed for about 8 turns because of duress and wastelands. but he had no creatures in play. i got back and won pretty easily. the whole game i was afraid to lose.

i don't know if this deck has potential. you can compare this deck most to U/W Fish. not because of the cardchoises, but because it's gameplan is the same, and you have allmost the same good and bad matchups. i don't know which is better.

grt kras

Okay, I've tested Andy's list a lot. And that is the first list I really liked.

Anyway, what do you think about Gifts Oath? I tested it, but I keep drawing crap hands, I don't know.

Greetings Kras.

Okay, Buttons, we all believe you are very good in maths. But this post was meant to discuss Gifts Control. Okay, Stax is an important matchup, but Stax is all I see the last 12 posts.

Does anybody has any other ideas for what cards to play together with cards you allways play?

Greetings Kras

I don't like thoses maths, because you can't coun't all possibilities. The Gifts player can also have Force in hand.


I might be thinking about running 2 Scrolls again, because they are pretty good for yourself. Scroll does improve first turns and can search answers PRESB.


Greetings Kras

No, no. I don't play a Tendrils MB. Besides, after casting Y.Will it is sometimes still difficult to cast a big tendrils on someone. Usually you have to pay five (1B and 1R) to cast Y.Will and after that, having 1R and 2B and even more colored and colorless mana is sometimes impossible.

I was thinking about this. There are a numbour of cards you absolotely have to play:
10 SoLoMoxenVaultCryptPetal
1 DSC

1 Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Force
6 Gifts Ungiven/TfK
4 Mana Drain
1 M.Tutor

1 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Y.Will
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker

4 Fetch
1 LoA
8 Islands/Duals
1 SnowcoveredIsland
1 T. Academy

These cards are a MUST for this deck. Then we have these:
1 Fact or Fiction, well I've played without it, and I missed this card so much. This is also a MUST!

Does everybody agree with this?

And what else options have we got left? 7 slots.
Options:
Duress
Pithing Needle
Gorilla Shaman
Cunning Wish
FlameVault
BelcherSeverance
R&R
Skeletal Scrying
Merchant Scroll
Misdirection
Phyrexian Furnace
Bounce

Well, who thinks has the best options and do tells WHY you think your choises are best.

Greetings Kras

Cunning Wish is a good card. It can win you games, though it can be absolutely useless. You could change the Cunning Wish for a Goblin Charbelcher and play Mana Severance in your SB. Or you can delete one other MBcard, and play Severance MB. It all depends on your meta and you own personal experience.

Withoug Cunning Wish, you have more SBslots open, so I will put Echoing Ruin and Deep Analysis in. I've removed those because Cunning Wish has better removal targets, and you can't play R&R, Deep, Crypt, Ruin and all sort of instants and sorceries in your SB.

I will be testing this.

Rack and Ruin can be resolved against the Stax Matchup. As Smmenen told us, there is a slight possibility you can't, but you would allready lose if you can't cast a spell for 3 mana.

You will win the control mirror if you just casted Y.Will and played Tinker and Time Walk. You don't need Burning Wish then, because you also play Recall and more draw so you will probably have 3 counters at hand. Using Burning Wish to get back a removed Time Walk is mostly only winning (and losing without) against aggro.

Greetings Kras

Gifts Control:

This is the list I use:
Mainboard (60):

Artifacts (12):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creatures (1):
1 Darksteel Colossus

Creatures (2):
2 Gorilla Shaman

Instants (22):
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Cunning Wish
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Thirst for Knowledge

Sorceries (8):
1 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Duress
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Islands (2):
2 Island

Lands (11):
2 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands (1):
1 Tolarian Academy

Snow-Covered Basic Lands (1):
1 Snow-covered Island


Sideboard (15):
1 Darkblast
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Pyroblast
1 Rushing River
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 open slots

Explanations:

Pithing Needle:
This card is great. It disables a lot of irritating threats from your
opponent for good. It's great against: Bazaar, Welder, Maze of Ith,
Wasteland, Fetch, Psychatog, Strip Mine, Vial, Gorilla Shaman (post SB),
and even more, like random artifacts. Artifacts are never dead because
or Thirst for Knowledge. Sometimes you search Needle in your Gifts Stack.
This gets rid of all Land cards that annoy you. There aren't many, but
Maze of Ith of damn irritating.

Gorilla shaman:
This Monky is great against all Powered decks. I always hate to see a
monky on the other side of the table. He's very good versus staxx, Control
Slaver, and can when needed block a Goblin Lackey, Ninja, or Fat.

Fact or Fiction:
Some say you don't have to run Fact MB. Well, I've tried, but I still
like to play this MB. Okay, you have Cunning Wish, but Fact is often
a card to seach with Gifts. Against Control, you want cardadvantage so
gifting for: Recall, Fact, Thirst and Gifts is a very common thing.

Gifts Ungiven/Thirst:
Ofcourse, this is a no-brainer, but I want to discuss the amount of these.
I have tested a lot of combinations, and I've come up with this amount.
I see 3/3 showing up more and more lately and they are right.
This deck can support 4 Thirst, but does not like it. You really want to
discard an artifact after playing thirst. You don't need 4. 3 Gifts is
about the best combination. 2 is NOT enough. The deck is named after the
card, and you can't play 2 of them, because, as I've allready mentioned,
gifting for: Recall, Thirst, Fact, Gifts is very common. If you gifts for
gifts, you will never get the gifts in hand and then you have no gifts in
your deck anymore. That's not good, because you can't combo out easily
anymore. I never dislike drawing a gift.

Burning Wish:
I have rarely seen a list without Burning Wish. But because you will
sideboard this card out sometimes, so I'd like to mention it. B.Wish
is diverse. You can tutor for anything, and you can get your removed
Time Walk, but most of all, it is your SecondWinCondition.

Duress:
Yeah, well, this is difficult. I like Duress. He is good early-, mid-,
and lategame. You can use it to protect your win condition, a gifts,
a draw spell. Or you can use it to pick someone elses broken cards like:
Tinker, Y.Will, Smokestack, Mana Drain. I have tested this card in my
sideboard, but I get to like this card MainBoard every game. I never
dislike this card in my hand, and you need some way to beat Combo.

Library of Alexandria:
Old card, draw engine on his own. This card sees less play over time,
but I still think it's good. I have cut this card for an Island, a fetch
or a Boseiju but this card is superior to all three. In my meta control
is heavely played. Also, Thirst for Knowledge does like this card a lot.
When you have LoA in your openinghand, you can always find a way to
activate it once or more. But don't underestimate it, when you need to
lose your 7-cards-in-hand for a more important issue, then you must do
so. Also, if this thing gets wasted, fine, then I have saved my mana base.
I believe you need to play one non-colored-mana-source-land. And LoA
is better than: Strip Mine or Boseiju.

Underground Sea/Volcanic Island:
Again, this is only about the amount. As allready said above. My meta
contains a lot of Control, and Wasteland isn't played much. The only
reason not to play 4/4, is because you have the ability to search for
them if needed, you play Black Lotus, Lotus Petal, Jet and Ruby for
additional non-blue colorneeded mana sources. And ofcourse the fetches.
First, I played only 2 black, and 2 red cards MB, but because I play
Gorilla Shaman, and Duress lately, I have cut 2 Islands, for 1 Sea, and
1 Volcanic. You really notice the difference. The is another advantage.
Sometimes, I get wasted twice. On the same mana source. And haveing more
than 2 Seas/Volcs along is usefull. The only huge disadvantage is getting
a Blood Moon, or Back to Basics against you. And an urly wasteland, but
again, I don't get to see them a lot here.

Cunning Wish:
For those of you who are aware I have skipped Cunning Wish because I
wanted it to be last card to discuss. This is actually the last slot
I used. I like this card because it is, again, diverse. You always have
easy matchups, like turn1: Tinker-DSC. Force backup, and win 3 minutes
later. But the difficult Matchups and random games. You need answers
for things. Pithing Needle does not always help. Cunning Wish does.
He can be a finishoff, or a way to get yourself out of a Prison by
targetting Smokestack and Crucible. Cunning Wissh can recure instants
removed by Force of Will and Y.Will. The good thing about C.Wish, is,
that it can target instants in your sideboard, you would allready have
played otherwise. Like Rack and Ruin, Red Elemental Blast and Darkblast.
Cunning Wish > Echoing Truth. You play a (double) bounce SB so you
have the bounce ability and more.

I will now discuss my sideboard while also refere to Cunning Wish,
so this may get complicated because I jump from one card to another.
I will first discuss the instants:

Darkblast:
This card owns Control Slaver. It is so good versus Goblin Welder and
Mox Monky. And some random fish deck, but that isn't a bad matchup.
Darkblast also handles with Welders from Staxx. And it can now be
available in the first match only because of Cunning Wish. Darkblast
is reusable after the first time. You can Gifts for it, together with
Needle. Random Gifts are (postSB): Needle, Darkblast REB, Shaman.
The drawback is minor. The only bad thing that could happen is drawing
into y.will and burning wish. Darkblast can also clear a bad brainstorm.

Rack and Ruin:
Great card against Staxx. Almost the only reason it's here for. I don't
have much Staxx in my meta, but I'm always afraid to run into a Staxx-
deck and lose. Cunning Wish can target R&R, this is your most easy way
to get rid of some nasty Artifacts.

Red Elemental Blast/Pyrblast:
These two are here for the Control Matchup. It really smoothes your play.
You would want these to play only because everyone else does. You can't
stay behind. If your opponents packs these, then you must too.

Rushing River:
Bounce in your sideboard which can be targeted by Cunning Wish. River
can bounce two permanents. Needle is for all irritating Lands you can't
target with River. Good against Oath.

Skeletal Scrying:
This is a bit of randomness for your Cunning Wish. Scrying draws you a
lot. And is there for the broken randomness when drained a huge spell.
Good card, and can sometimes be used to switch in MB, if some MB spells
seemes to be a bad choise, while you don't have any other usefull SB
cards left.

Vampiric Tutor:
Not good enough for MainBoard. Is a great target for Cunning Wish and
is also good to Sideboard in against aggro, to get your Tinker ASAP.
Again, Cunning Wish can now serve as an answer.

Pithing Needle:
Extra power against Maze of Ith, Goblin Welder, Wasteland and Bazaar.
You will use Needle most times on these 4 cards.

Pyroclasm:
Target for Burning Wish and anti-aggro deck. Almost kills all FCG
creatures. While FCG isn't a difficul matchup, I have never lost to it.
Can also be used to kill Welders and Shamans.

Tendrils of Agony:
SecondWinCondition and important card. You use a few more cheap spells
than most other decks run, so you can empower this card with Shamans,
duresses and Needles. Don't remove this card, if you're not playing
FlameVault or Severance-Belcher. But this card is better than those
other options. Needles are played more and more. This isn't targeted
by Needle.

3 open slots:
These are used for your own meta. You can use them for Graveyard Removal,
hate or more Cunning Wish/Burning Wish targets. I'm not sure what I play
in these slots.


Cards Not To Play:
Merchant Scroll:
This card is pretty good. It tutors for a lot of cards. But it isn't that
good. Thirst > Scroll. You allready play M.Tutor and D.Tutor and a lot
of draw.

Misdirection:
Carddisadvantage. Duress > Misdirection. You allready have Force, Drain and
postSB ReB. I would rather play a Boseiju than Misdi. This protects your
cards better than Misdi.

White cards like Ground Seal and Balance (sb):
Don't f*ck up your mana base even more. They're not worth it. You rarely
want to wish for Balance, and you don't want to SB it in. Ground Seal
is a bit better, but I still don't like it. Two of them in your hand
doesn't improve anything, and you will SB this in, when up against
Wastelands, and when you do, you have trouble having colored mana on board.
Fetching for Tundra is only possible in your MainPhase. And when you play
Ground Seal, your Tundra will be wasted in responce.

FlameVault:
I don't think you need to FlameVault combo. 80 to 90% you win with your
11/11 trampler: Tinker! You have the advantage in the Control matchup,
because of Duress, Pithing Needle and Mox Monky. (I don't count CS right
now, only Gifts decks. There exists like 5 of them right now?) Is there
a matchup where you want FlameVault over DSC? No (maybe with the exception
of U/W Fish and BirdSh*t). I don't like dead cards. So I don't play with
that extra winner.


Matchup Analysis:

Control Slaver:
You have the advantage here. You are faster, less vulnarable and you have
a stronger KillCondition. You have some nasty cards MB for CS. Mox Monky,
Pithing Needle and Duress. Cunning Wish for Darkblast helps a lot. You
have more draw.

SB:
-2 Duress
-2 Gorilla Shaman
-1 Cunning Wish

+1 Darkblast
+2 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Pithing Needle

ReB > Duress. Cunning Wish has lost it's best target: Darkblast. And Pithing
Needle handles Goblin Welder and Gorilla Shaman. You want Needle on Shaman,
and then yours won't work anymore.

Needle and Darkblast locks them down completely. After you've handled with
that, they won't have any way to remove your DSC. They shouldn't be winning
because you have more draw, maybe more counters. And when you resolve a gifts,
you should win, because you can gifts for: Needle, Darkblast, ReB and Pyroblast.
Or just a normal stack with Y.Will, Tinker, Recoup, Time Walk.


Staxx:
I haven't tested this matchup a lot, but it shouldn't be that difficult to SB.
I was thinking about:
-2 Duress
-1 Recoup
-1 Cunning Wish
-1 Lotus Petal

+2 Rack and Ruin
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Vampiric Tutor
+1 Darkblast

Duress is near useless. Cunning Wish has lost its best target: Rack and Ruin.
And Recoup isn't that important. Once you are winning, you won't need Recoup 
to win. Just win because of the card advantage. Watch out for Wasteland, but
you have Pithing Needle. Which can serve as a permanent. Just as you Shamans
are. They are great. You can eat all nasty artifacts. Darkblasts gets rid
of opponents Goblin Welders and Shamans. Vampiric Tutor can get you Tinker
or Needle or Darkblast or Rack and Ruin or ...



MDGifts:
Mirrorlike. You should have advantage in the first match because of your
hate: Duress and Gorilla Shaman.

-2 Pithing Needle
-1 Lotus Petal
-1 Burning Wish

+1 Tendrils of Agony
+2 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Pyroblast

Needle is near useless and Lotus Petal is a carddisadvantage. Duress,
Shaman and ReB's are great. Burning Wish will likely get you Tendrils,
so why not having it immediatly. You should be winning this. Cunning Wish
is also good because you can get all sorts of things.


Oath:
Oath is your worst Matchup. You have little tools to win this. You could
use your open slots in your SB to win this match.

-2 Gorilla Shaman
-1 Cunning Wish
-1 Burning Wish
-1 Mystical Tutor

+2 ReB
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Rushing River
+1 Tendrils of Agony

Shaman activates Oath, and can only target 6 cards (maybe if they're packing:
Chalices, you might want to leave them MB.) Burning Wish for Tendrils.
Cunning Wish can't get River anymore. River is important. So are your ReB's.


U/W Fish:
Can be very easy or very difficult. You should be winning because of your
brokenness which Fish is unable to. The greatest difficulty is that they
are using Swords to Plowshares. That decreases the chance you can easily
win with your colossus.

-2 Gorilla Shaman
-2 Duress
-1 Cunning Wish
-1 Burning Wish

+1 Pyroclasm
+1 Tendrils of Agony
+2 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Darkblast

Shaman is near useless. ReB > Duress. Cunning Wish is slow and hasn't got
good targets. You want Pyroclasm and Tendrils MB so Burning Wish is cut.
Darkblast kills a lot, and can be used twice to kill Meddling Mage or Ninja.
Pithing Needle is for Wasteland and possible Vials. Establish control to
combo out with Y.Will-Tendrils.


TPS:
Combo is strange. It can be very strong, or very weak. Just hope they don't
draw good against you.

-2 Pithing Needle
-1 Burning Wish

+1 Tendrils of Agony
+1 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Pyroblast

Needle isn't good. It can usually only disable one card like: Bargain or Necro.
Duress is great. So are your counters and Shamans to destroy their moxen.
Cunning Wish is diverse and Tinker is your PrimaryWinCondition! Only two ReB's
because they can't counter black cards like Ritual, Duress, Y.Will.


Random aggro and FCG deserve to lose ...

How did I create this decklist. Well, firstly, I was playing a whole lot
different decklist. But after the Dutch Championship last sunday I came to
the conclusion I was wrong and I shouldn't play Misdirections nor Phyrexian
Furnaces. And Gorilla Shaman and Pithing are very good.

Well, I did cut those cards right after I came home. And immediatly put
2 Gorilla Shaman, and 2 Pithing Needle MB. And I like Balance, Equilibria.
Right after I put Shamans MB, I put Duresses in too. They fit perfect. I
always liked the card, and it helps a lot matchups. It totally belongs MB.

Now, I play 4 Red and 4 Black cards. I had to change the Mana Base. 2 Islands
for 1 Underground Sea and 1 Volcanic Island. This may hurt yourself, but
against Control, it doesn't matter sh*t. There are only a few decks running
wastelands and you need to fetch your duals once. Why not fast, and be able
to fetch or draw another one. If you only run 2 duals each. Then you can't
afford to lose one, because you may get to do it without them.

I like Thirst for Knowledge. It helps all Control Matchups and can be played
a turn before Gifts. A thirst before Gifts is very strong. Plus, thirst
almost sais: Draw Three Cards. You can most of the time discard a artifact,
or lategame, you can discard 2 lands. Your Y.Will becomes even stronger of it
because ther are more moxes in it. And you can discard your DSC to it. Without
thirst, you would NEED a brainstorm to win if your DSC is at hand.

This deck doesn't run any dead cards. Ofcourse it has cards that aren't good
against specific other decks, but they are never completely dead. Needle can
be discarded to Thirst (so can any other card). Shaman can always eat some
moxen, or more. And when your opponent doesn't run moxen, then allready have
advantage. And Duress, yeah, well, your opponent could have no cards in
hand, but hae, then you have advantage allready. Cunning Wish can always be
cycled with Scrying for 1 (which is bad, because it isn't made for that).


This is the first time I write an artikel about a deck. I might be quite wrong,
but if you disagree with me. Please, please tell, so we can discuss and talk
about it. This is my opinion, and my meta.

For instance, does anybody has ideas about some great SBcards? I have had some
thoughts about these cards:
Tormod's Crypt (good Graveyard Removal)
Claw of Gix (Oath Hate, can only be used against Oath)
Coffin Purge (Cryt seems better, is Cunning Wish target)
Spawning Pit (same as Claw of Gix, I don't know which is better)
Gifts Ungiven/Thirst for Knowledge (I don't think you should play this SB,
                                    because you have them MB, and Scrying should
                                    be better.)
Blue Elemental Blast (Can't do better than Drain or Force. While Darkblast handles
                      Goblin Welder and Shaman.)

Greetings Kras

Steffen, Congrats on your T8. I didn't know you made T8, I dropped after 4-2-1.

In addition to our match, you were trying to win from me very, very nasty. Besides, I only had 1 warning before round3. You had me get a warning for reveiling one card, and after that, you wanted my Tinker not to resolve beacuse I tapped Volcanic? Would you have done the same if I played another Thirst?

I don't think FlameVault is good enough for Gifts. I'm interested in how many games you won without DSC. I play Burning Wish-Tendrils as second WinCondition and it has been enough for me all day. I lost because of superior drawings from my oppenents in round 6 and 7 (both German :S:P).

Greetings Kras

Is Uba Stax the best list running Mishra's Workshop? It does uses the most powerfull (expensive) cards in magic.

Robert Vroman, what list did you used? I can't find it on SCG of TMD, but I'm sure it'll be reveiled for us soon.

Is there a primer for Uba Stax?

Suggestions?

I like the artikel forcefieldyou wrote for us. I agree with him for many things. But I have some questions myself.

Why does no one play Blood Moon? I haven't seen that name anywhere. IMHO, I think this is a great card. It is great versus Stax, and versus GiftsOath.

Greetings Kras