The trick I think you'll run into is needing to accelerate into your in conditions. Perhaps Ancient Tomb can help. Canonist would be good if you go RW otherwise Pyrostatic Pillar isn't bad. You'll almost want to play like TMWA I think. I think you may want Pyroblast in addition to Red Blast in the main or in the board. I think I'd play Thorn of Amethyst over Pillage. You can try it.

Leyline of Anticipation looks pretty sweet. Here's an interesting idea. Is it okay to post a link to another website? http://mtgtrinket.blogspot.com/2010/10/brainstorming-chandra-ablaze-in-legacy.html

Someone threw Chandra Ablaze into a Legacy version of belcher I think the idea is neat though perhaps pointless.

I'm not sure the inclusion of blue for FOW is the greatest idea however kuldotha rebirth makes me wonder about running 4 chrome mox, 4 pithing needle, 4 tormod's crypt, and 4 sensei's divining top as a draw engine maybe real moxen and mox opal. Put in a couple more artifacts add shrapnel blast and galvanic blast and you might have a pretty darn fast clock with some artifact disruption. Although it would open the deck up to artifact hate. I used to play TMWA and looking beyond the obvious always seemed to help. Of course these suggestions may only be detrimental to the strength of the deck.

I like the idea I do but I worry that it relies too much on liquimetal coating though with goblin welder I understand you can just weld them in. Heretic does sound cool but perhaps too cool? Along the lines of heretic is Manic vandal or even goblin vandal that could be useful.

Is anybody still working on this? I ask because I find it interesting.

Also would something like Spoils of the vault be considered if one was looking to find belcher or etw in a black build being that they are usually four ofs and the likelihood of dying to one should be relatively slim.

I have a question. As a casual player who likes vintage I've found myself slowly building up my collection with the best deals I find on cards, and when I found out some time ago that legacy allowed 4 Led's and 4 Lotus Petals I bought them immediately. When Grim Monolith was unrestricted I bought the 3 extra I needed immediately. Now where I'm going with this is if the problem in vintage is cost and proxy use. Maybe some of the problem could be alleviated through unrestrictions. Or would powered players run 4 LED's and 4 Lotus petals in addition to power making the point moot. I guess what I'm getting at is Why does legacy have use of these cards while vintage does not? Would unrestricting them help or hurt? Are they restricted simply because of Yawgmoth's Will? Would unrestricting them and banning Yawgmoth's will help to eventually leading to a 0 proxy vintage? I'm just spitballing here... but could 0 proxy vintage work with the right balance of restrictions and unrestrictions or is that simply why Legacy was created in the first place. Maybe I should just play Legacy...

Pyrostatic Pillar might be a good sideboard option against combo

*scratches head, wishes he could see the article, thinks about getting premium, wants a peanut butter sandwich, wonders why there's the hullabaloo about article writers writing articles, thinks even poor articles can teach one something, like if one read an article where one said I use STP because there are a lot of Relentless Rat decks in my meta, then I'd wonder what meta has relentless rat decks, and where can I play in this meta?...*

You can't please everyone all the time, even your own insecurities can drag you down.

Whatever works black is a top quality color plus green and white can do many of the things red can so you really aren't losing a whole lot other than magus.

Yes the style would be different between red and black, I'd stay with red. Although like duress disruption and confidant card drawing like you mentioned earlier but black can do other things better than red too like hit graveyards with withered wretch, yixlid jailor or go duress + extirpate to really put the hurt on some decks.

Have you tried Root Maze? That can put the hurt on combo by making thier lands and artifacts come into play tapped making it harder for them to generate mana while going off with tapped moxen. Granted null rod is better because it shuts down moxen completely but people carry hate for null rod, I doubt anyone carry's hate for root maze.

So if your not running goyf grim might be good. That gives me an idea.

 I'd run 4 wastes or none. Add the fourth mana drain too. Orim's chant is a kind of cool sideboard option to help force through your spells or prevent your opponent from playing spells for 1, giving you a better combo matchup.

I'm starting to see why seething song is bad. It occasionally is incredible for getting a belcher in play in activating it. However every time I see seething song and ETW in my opening grip I almost want to cry. I'm thinking of putting it in the sideboard and maindecking gutteral response, but having seething song in the board I feel might help me when I need to race.

Orim's chant and Abeyance can put a hiccup into combo's plan's too.

Did living wish help at all? I'm building a RG version that's a glass cannon and was wondering how much you liked living wish.

If your wondering here's my current decklist.

Kill
4 Empty the Warrens
4 Goblin Charbelcher

Creatures
2 Goblin Welder

Mana
4 SSG
4 ESG
4 Rite of Flame
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Land Grant
2 Taiga
4 Tinder Wall
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
4 Chrome Mox
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal

Draw
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 ManaMorphose
4 Street Wraith

Sideboard
4 Pact of Negation
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Goblin Welder
4 Pyrokinesis
1 Recoup

The sideboard is going to change once I get Guttural Responses. and When I get channel I'll fit that in the main too.

In goldfishing and against goblins this deck seems pretty good and I rarely mull into oblivion. Granted my list is basically dumbed down and has no disruption or backup plan past belcher and empty but it sure is fun.

Genju of the spires can be a pretty sick clock at 6 damage a swing if you need a faster kill.

Suddenly I want to play Ichorid. 

All jokes aside Ichorid is not powerful enough to warrant a ban the worst thing about it in my opinion is it has made it so alot of people splash hate for it making decks like dragon fall to the wayside. However it itself can get nailed by leyline, extirpate, tormod's crypt what have you.

In all seriousness I might try ichorid though.

3 Diabolic Intent can be a pain I've played a deck similar to this and I would only run 2 otherwise you'll have a dead one in your hand alot.

You might want to try krosan grip or something to deal with chalice.

I also ran dark confidant for awhile as it could draw cards for me or be sacrificed to culling and intent.

Could it be used with doomsday? cast doomsday turn two with a land and a ritual in hand, set up ancestral recall, black lotus, Painter's servant, grindstone. play the land tap for blue cast ancestral, cast black lotus break the lotus for black, cast dark ritual, tap a land for another mana play servant, play and activate grindstone. this setup isn't as good as others but maybe it could be made better.

After trying to build a dragon deck unsuccessfully, (I lost to a kid who played an elf deck and naturalized my animate dead) I gave up and built a list similar to K.I.T.T. Tendrils

After playing it a few times I think the decks not too bad however my meta is rather underdeveloped. It seems much more consistent and fast compared to the dragon builds I tried, and can win turn 1, more often turn 2 or 3. sometimes later. There are two issues that I think would make this deck much better adding land grant and bayou or overgrown tomb but I know bayou would be much better. Or adding Cruel Bargain I'm leaning towards bargain more than bayou, I can't afford both at the moment.

The decklist goes as follows

land

8 swamp
3 cabal pit

Mana accel

4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
4 culling the weak
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Lion's eye diamond
1 sol ring
1 Lotus Petal

Disrupt
4 Cabal Therapy

Draw

1 Memory Jar
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
4 Infernal Contract

Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Demonic Intent

Sac Critters
2 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
2 Shield Sphere

Bringing Back the yard
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ill-Gotten Gains

Kill
3 Tendrils of Agony

Majorly Underdeveloped Transformational Suicide Black Sideboard

4 Drinker of Sorrow
4 Yixlid Jailor
4 Rathi Trapper
3 Snuff Out

The good news is that elf deck never beats me anymore, neither does a goblin or affinity, there is a MUC deck that sometimes gives me trouble though. Turn 1 cabal therapy naming force of will and following will an ornithopter to sac and play therapy again to tear his hand apart helps.

A couple explanations for card choices.

I also use cabal pit to help deal with those pesky creatures.

3 tendrils is because the deck is underdeveloped I tried 2 but seemed to fizzle more often than 3.

1 Iggy helps with the stalling problem to pick up rituals and tutors or infernal contracts out of the yard.

Could a list like this become somewhat viable? (this list is no proxy so I could proxy up some for proxy tournaments)

In short I think this is a good deck(easily the best combo deck I've ever played) Should I get Cruel Bargains or Bayou's I'd like bargain's because the deck occasionally stalls and I think switching out some cards for Bargains would help that. Also I'd like to splash green to deal with stuff like leyline of the void.

What might be a good sideboard that I use while still trying to combo off, I have snuff out to deal with some pesky creatures but other than that the sideboard is terrible.

If splashing blue why not try goblin welder, thirst for knowledge, sundering titan, titan is great for mana denial plus is a 7/10 beater. Although I can see why you wouldn't I don't think you'ld ever hardcast titan.

If your going to run goblin sligh in vintage you should consider cards that do double duty either beating or disrupting, goblin vandal, tin-street hooligan, goblin tinkerer, goblin welder,(that's team artifact hate and none cost more than 2), you know about stingscourger and earwig squad. one of them could replace raging goblin easily.

Will (if you have enough mana) doesn't sound too good. what if you don't? What is the speed on this? undisrupted win would be turn 5? I think I understand the idea and I kinda like it but I think you might want chrome mox and mox diamond to give you a chance of turn 1 oath. that or chalice of the void to slow your opponent and to help stop tormods crypt.

and to clarify the combo goes turn 1 oath pass, turn two oath up platinum angel (keep those fow handy),turn 3 oath again, turn 4 krosan reclamation, "put yawg's will on the library if lucky cast a spell to draw it, turn 5 play it, fastbond play spells from the yard for storm and tendrils. so with a god hand you can go off turn 5 (later if you didn't have forbidden orchard lotus petal oath in the opening hand)

What spells would you play from the yard? draw and tutor, more oaths? for storm? I guess just whatever is in there.

It's neat but like the decks I play its probably too slow and easily disrupted.

Hello everybody, a year or two ago I gave up magic(for the 4th or 5th time) and yes once again for like the 4th or 5th time I'm picking it up again.
I ran a couple things my red deck (think tmwa) which I think would roll over and die against flash but might still hold its own against a few things and dragon.

Unfortuneately my decklist isn't 100% correct because I must have borrowed something from my dragon to try my hand at ichorid, I'll post what I have and do my best to remember what else I might have had in the deck.

lands

4 forbidden orchard
4 gemstone mine
4 city of brass
3 island
3 swamp

Spells
4 dark ritual
4 gifts ungiven
4 cabal therapy
1 vampiric tutor
1 demonic tutor
1 entomb
2 compulsion
1 life from the loam
3 necromancy
3 animate dead
1 dance of the dead

artifacts
1 mana vault
1 sol ring

creatures
1 shivan hellkite
1 ambassador laquatus
1 caller of the claw
4 worldgorger dragon

then theres nine cards I can't remember
I think

4 mana leak
1 riftstone portal
4 force of will

and the sideboard looked like
4 xantid swarm
4 chalice of the void
4 ray of revelation

Now I know there's some mean graveyard hate out there and this decklist is bad even for dragon, I plan to make to versions of the deck one no proxie and 1 10 proxie

Some card changes I plan to make -4 gifts ungiven +4 intuition and I plan to cut some of the excess stuff like I know I don't need 4 worldgorger dragons and adding more control elements.

What do you think about Pact of Negation I was thinking of adding 4 maindeck like Flash does.

What do you think? Would dragon stand a chance? (I think it might if the meta near me is the same as it was,which was bad)

This card has a cool looking snap to it, but having 2 blue cards to pitch means you have to be playing something like monoblue control to have a chance of having cards to pitch. This sucker could be a bomb in standard but in vintage there are too many cards I'd rather be packing instead of this one, fow, stifle, misdirection, mana leak, heck maybe even remand.

Then again the first nine times I looked at remand I thought it was crap but its turned out to be a pretty hot card maybe there's hope for this one two... but I doubt it.

Looks neat, wonder why unmask is big in them, I'd think runnin more cabal therapys would be better

its a cool card but a little cost prohibitive if it was UG it would be good enough. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple were splashed in something though

Thats a card on top of my fun list but not on my viable list

Its too vulnerable to hate to be effective.

I don't know what I want to make of this card. Although I like it on a stick for power level an enchantment is good.

The Hammer of Dwarves 

At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library. If it is an instant or sorcery, you may play it as though it were in your hand, without paying its mana cost. Otherwise, put the card into play under an opponent's control.

"Our future lies in our weapons, and our weapons are our future"
                                          -Gorwar, Dwarven Pyromancer