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1  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Goblin's place in Vintage on: February 28, 2006, 01:17:56 am
I maintain that Hooligan really isn't all that, because AM does the job 10x better still and if your running Hooligan maindeck, you probably cut a better card.

I don't think the question is Hooligan>AM, AM is "obviously better".

I think it's more, the pros and cons of Hooligan vs. Tinkerer.

They both have their benefits but in a "tempo" style goblin deck, I think the extra +1 power (and the ability to kill off a high cc artifact and survive to help pump the piledrivers), might help to tip the scales in the Hooligan's favor.  
2  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Goblin's place in Vintage on: February 28, 2006, 12:34:33 am
I think this goblins list can win against a variety of decks.
Agreed.

We've come to the conclusion that straight goblins is better than FCG.
Who's "we", I've looked for threads discussing this list/direction and found none.

However, why does he have all that clunk in the sideboard?
 Yes, I agree, the SB looks really bad. In fact, I debated even including it because a sideboard should always be "tourney specific". Not sure what he was looking to help with the vortexes.

This Goblins list can DEFINITELY be tier 1 with some improvements, in my opinion.
While I don't see gobs as being tier 1 (like in legacy), I do see this direction as a "contender" (in a highly proxied environment) if the right steps are taken. 

The FCG list my friend has runs one Goblin Welder in the MD to be fetched with his 3 Matrons.  They provide the ability to get rid of Colossus as well as being able to screw with stax locks.
Not a bad option, I've toyed with them (plural) myself. 
3  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Goblin's place in Vintage on: February 28, 2006, 12:05:27 am
Good points vroman. As a popular "budget deck" it is worthwhile to have in anyone's gauntlet for testing.

As to "tin street", I'm guessing it was a legality issue since the tourney was on 1/29/06.

I'd have to agree on swapping the numbers with the SGC and incinerators.

With all the artifact hate available to gobs (to attack stax almost entirely, and drain's mana bases), do you feel that this is this the direction gobs should be going (instead of the combo route)?

Has the number of artifact hating goblins (and faster combo decks) made Food Chain/Recruiter obsolete in such a highly "proxied power" environment?

4  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Goblin's place in Vintage on: February 27, 2006, 11:29:34 pm
Well, we all know of the past success/popularity of FCG in vintage. Mike Zaun's win was the last "1st" in a while, but there is usually at least 1 showing in the top 16 of most American events. Although it's numbers have dwindled, with the rise of 10 proxy events, it's still makes a pretty regular showing in non-proxy (sanctioned) play as well.

A recent list that caught my eye was Corey Mann's 6th place list, from the last Waterbury, where he eschewed the Food Chains all together (yet maintained the green splash for Artifact Mutations). He also dropped the "recruiter" as it was apparently no longer necessary, without the Food Chains for it, to enable the combo finish. Here's the list:

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=15563

Goblins, by Corey Mann

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
3 Null Rod

Creatures
2 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Goblin Vandal
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Mogg Fanatic
3 Siege-gang Commander

Instants
2 Artifact Mutation

Basic Lands
11 Mountain

Lands
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
1 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Artifact Mutation
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast

I must say, while it seems like it's possibly a good metagame choice for the midwest ("workshop land") with all of it's maindeck artifact hate, it's success in the northeast ("drain country") is a bit surprising to me.

Now, the questions.

Is Food Chain really necessary anymore, when other combo decks critical turns are a full turn (or two) faster, or is a mass of artifact hate the way to go (with null rod, mutation, vandal, and tinkerer)?

Is this just another case of "the player not the deck", or is this deck a viable deck choice in todays meta? 

Do you feel this list is "optimal/tuned", and if not, what changes would you make?

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