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1  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck]Stutter Still[Improving fish&landstill archetype]Post Fallout on: June 15, 2008, 02:46:42 pm
was not sure were to put this, it seems to close to this deck to make a new post so here it goes, i just placed 4rth in magic-leagues post jun 20 vintage event with this.

3 Island
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Mutavault
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Scion of Oona
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Time Walk
 1 Rushing River
1 Echoing Truth
3 Thoughtseize
1 Black Lotus
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
3 Bitterblossom
4 Mana Drain
 
Sideboard
2 Extirpate
3 Energy Flux
2 Duress
4 Planar Void
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Smother
 couple of notes, the bitterblossoms are insane, compounding damage very quickly if you have out the standstill.
the vondilions under performed i was not happy when i drew them and never unhappy that i did not.
1 scion seems good it can ramp your damage to absurd levels for the extra Punch if you feel drain tendrils are catching back up.

i feel the black is better then red because it gives us preemptive cards like thoughtsize also a insane win condition in bitterblossom + the tutors are helpful.

2  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: Tournament Results and the Impact of Hulk Flash on: May 16, 2007, 01:31:28 am


This is really how bad the format is.  This is the true impact of Flash.  Mark Trogdon is playing Islands!


is it just me or does mark look unhappy there, then agien every event i have gone to that he was there he played mountains in some form.

BTW what deck is he playing is mark playign LANDSTILL@@
3  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: Tournament Results and the Impact of Hulk Flash on: May 07, 2007, 01:03:51 pm
wow it seams belcher is making a impact as well.
4  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays: Long Live Ichorid! on: March 18, 2007, 03:24:53 pm
The problem with petrified filed, i do play them as well, is it has to be in hand at some point to be played. Phanta (does any one else who types this get the wanta wanta fanta fanta song  stuck in their head when they type this?  :lol: ) an be dredged or discarded and still be useful, of course turn 1 needle is bad all around but phanta solves the turn 2 needle problem or the turn 1 or 2 wasteland problem when you did not get a petrified.

"That's because you can build your deck to retain everything you want and have enough power so that every single time you would be in a position to Dread Return Ghoul, you can do so for lethal.  It's simple math to figure that out.   My rule of thumb is that 60% of my library, randomly distributed, should be able to create a lethal swing.  ":
 
Truth, but my point here is i remove 2 phantas and i have a 12/12 were remove say 4 ichorids/shells is the same effect, i like the phanta as a catch all there allowing me to use less recorces to effectively kill. I don't want any surprises. Not to mention if ichorids are extirpated phantas give a huge body to the ghoul when you dread return since you normally would have to put a ichorid or 2 under him other wise. My math was basically 1 phanta=2 3/1 guys meaning i have more options just in case of ghoul getting killed or something important getting removed.
5  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays: Long Live Ichorid! on: March 16, 2007, 05:57:03 am
I would like to throw my 2 cents in here, first Stephen is the reason i actuly now own a mox LOL no kidding. I never meet him in person but i actuly top 8ed using the old ichorid build (the one with main deck chains and needles before dread return)  and learned to play the deck using his writtings as a guide to compare my own testing with.

Stephen question why don't you run  Phantasmagorian i find often the guy is +6/+6 to ghoul and lets me have beefy fat even with out eating my entire yard, also he acts as bazaar 5 and 6 vs needles and wastelands, in a pinch i have also dread returned him for a quick 6 (both ghouls had been powderd) I honeslty never used black lotus ever and layline of the void is just to helpfull (although i can see it being the thug i just seem to like having the .5 of a turn vs long, and the aid vs decks like gifts. I love shell its a dredger that aids my ghouls and feeds ichorids a all around good guy. 
(hehe as aside i have 4 artist signed ichorids a foil ghoul and a german ghoul, 2 foil imps, 2 foil chalaces, and a foil dread return almost pimp LOL )

    1 Strip Mine
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    3 Petrified Field
    3 City of Brass
    4 Ichorid
    4 Nether Shadow
    2 Sutured Ghoul
    4 Shambling Shell
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    2 Phantasmagorian
    2 Dread Return
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Serum Powder
    2 Dragon Breath
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Unmask
    1 Mox Jet
    4 Leyline of the Void
6  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: [announcement] The Next Meandeck Open LEGACY Columbus OH 1/21 on: December 24, 2006, 02:36:45 am
is it really a good idea to do this event the same weekend as the planer choas prerealease?
7  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: [announcement] The Meandeck Open LEGACY Columbus OH 12/17 *SANCTIONED* on: November 26, 2006, 04:49:51 am
I wish i could shot but looks like i cna't show up to a damn tourney till after new years =[ hope you guys have one in january =]
8  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: BG Ichorid almost goes the distance in Sandusky for a Sapphire 11/11/06 on: November 19, 2006, 07:26:16 pm
Game 1 I start strong with a Leyline of the Void out. I’m on the play and I toss out a Chalice at 0, which he’s not happy to see, and a Putrid Imp. I was packing a second Chalice in my hand, but I wanted to save it for a Chalice for 1. On his second or third turn, I had started beating on him with Imps and getting into my thing, and he uses I think Vampiric Tutor. I figure he might be getting a bounce spell for my Chalice, meaning he’s got some 0 effects to play, so I toss out the second Chalice at 0, figuring he picked Chain of Vapor to deal with him

actuly looks liek it was mistyped concidering he laid the chalace to shut off chain of vapor...sounds like he actuly ment to say 1

9  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: October 02, 2006, 02:19:04 am
At charollet round 1 i actuly played Pithing Needle game 2 vs a guy naming bazzar. I won the game. Course he was playing dragon. i Just abused therapy targeting myself.

 Sure bazzar is the balls to the walls nuts for ichorid. but Imp is no slouch as is self targeted therapy.

Game 1 you mulligan to 5 to find bazzar UNLESS in the 6 or 7 you draw imp+troll with black mana.

Game 2 depends vs long i sometimes keep my 7 card hand with out imp or bazzar but a fist of like layline, chalace unmask+therapy or somethign else silly. Basicly game 2 and 3 is you trying for disription tachtics to combat the hate they sided in. You normaly win game 1 off the back of speed/disruption/surprise(not that opponet was not expecting ichorid its just that they almost likly did not keep a hate filled hand vs you like they would game 2.
10  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: October 01, 2006, 09:50:54 pm
Planer void and layline of the void still scare the crap out of me. How do the u/b only build deal with them. I just hate losing to turn 1 cards.
11  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: October 01, 2006, 05:48:10 am
Imp is sadly a neccesary evil  Sad it acts a a bazzar 5-8 while feeding ichorids. its quite possable Ichorid will have to go straight u/b to combat the new fish decks. Massacre is pretty good vs them, grunt is still a problem but dark withering may help with him possably

Dark Withering 4BB
Destroy target nonblack creature.
Madness B (If you discard this card, you may play it for its madness cost instead of putting it into your graveyard.)

Course you never hard cast it but he discards to bazzar and imp and possably worth testing to combat grunts.

I can possably see the yosei sideboard. But he really don't deal with the grunts ability. Him being a 5/5 flyer though is pretty nice XD
12  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: October 01, 2006, 02:11:40 am
Quote
EDIT: after a few hour of testing troll is still 5/5 or 6/6 on turn 5 so he isstill pretty good.

What is the list you are running?  Because frankly I'm not very impressed with these results.

Just my basic list meandeck ichorid list that i placed 5th at charollet with.

    4 City of Brass
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Ashen Ghoul
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Ichorid
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    2 Chain of Vapor
    4 Unmask
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Dread Return

 -1 crop rotation/gamble for it just for testing (seams that was a shady slot any way. IE, I hate not having maindeck needles =] )

That game state were on turn 3 you poped out a 5/5 to 7/7 on turn 3 to swing on turn 4 seamed to happen a decent amount of time.

 
13  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: September 29, 2006, 10:28:00 pm
   My only problem is how big can he get in reality? Ichorid plays 4 Ichorid 4 ghoul 4 stink weed 4 putried 4 troll. So he can max out at 19/19 asuming you got all of them in the yard and did not remove any with ichorid prior to FB the dread return.  However, that is very unrealistic as chances are you most likely removed 2-3 guys with ichorid prior to this and most cases removed 2 more so you could pop out 2 ichorids and a ashen ghoul ( gets abit better if you poped out 2 ghoul and 1 chorid but i digress i am just pointing out the usual scenarios i have seen in ichorid games. )  So lets say you got 2 ichorids, 2 ashen ghouls, 3-5 imps of differing verity in the yard and say 2 trolls. Now lets say you atatcked turn 2 with 2 ichorids (pretty standerd for this deck) -2 from those numbers. used 2 more guys to pop out the dread. so you have eaten 4 of your fuel. leaving 2 ichorids 2 ghoul 2 and a troll thats 7/7. Still not to bad. Turn 3 i can live with that.  Neutral

 Embarassed HEH funny thing is i was doing the math to try to talk my self out of the card but now the math shows it is worth testing. LOL pay attention this mayt be the only post ever written were the writer switched sides midpost..... Rolling Eyes

As i was saying i was worried about the actual size the troll could resonably get, but i surprised my self XD. But its obv to me this can't work till after turn 2 and probly not even on turn 5(lack of tasty food). Turns 3-4 seam to be the most optimal times to use the card.

EDIT: after a few hour of testing troll is still 5/5 or 6/6 on turn 5 so he isstill pretty good.
14  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Artificial Fish on: September 29, 2006, 03:58:10 am
Seams the biggest problem you might have is in the mulligans. Seams like your opening your self to have alot of workshop/no on color mana but guys that need colord mana hands and the plenty of colored mana hands but no work shop with a few big bulky 4-5 cost artifact men. Otherwise looks like a pretty decent hybrid of fish and some build of workshop aggro.

I have never really cared if Bob hits me for a few damage every now and then, normaly the card he gets me is worth the life loss (but god i hate hitting DSC frowns).
15  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: September 28, 2006, 01:53:53 am
Vapor deals with annoying things like Laylines, DSC, AKROMA!.(we hates her.), as well as bounces Dragon with its CIP ability on the stack. I know Stifle deals with the Oath activation as well as Dragons ability, but it does not hit Layline, DSC, Planer Void. Chain deals with most of the annoying things Stifle does in this deck but also hits a dfew other things as well.

OOPS!  Embarassed Should read a card before commenting. Missed the FB part. But i still seams overcosted for the effect. I mean if i just dredged back 3 Ichorids, i am probly winning any way, i would rather have the spot for a hate card, not to mention the cards i would have to have in the deck to brake it. Ichorid is fragile and tight enough as it is, not sure if you can hit 3-4 slots for a combo that works only when you are already winning the race? Troll will be to small, you ate all its food to bring back the Ichorids to sac to this.

BTW Eric it is worth playing a few games of though, just to see how us poorer T1 players who don't want to play fish live XD
16  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: September 28, 2006, 12:32:40 am
4 CC cards have no place in so mana lite deck, stick with chain of vapor to deal with DSC.
17  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Free Article--The Vintage Paradox on: September 25, 2006, 11:16:26 pm
My only problem with t2 is with the way the enviroment is. Some t2s have a hard best deck every deck has to play around. Or on the other end of the spectrum we have 20 decks all viable but they hav 2-3 auto losses making pairs a nightmare. T1 it just seams any competitive deck (note competitive means uses good cards, and has ample power to play aginst the rest of the meta) can and does win anygiven match up (not that there are not bad match ups, just no retardedly lopsided ones.
18  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: September 20, 2006, 02:04:42 am
YES, you can stack the ichorids triggers and dredge.

YES, its one of the more powerfull plays, say you bazzar and you have a imp and  a troll, you use the troll on the first draw hoping to get a 2nd troll, of you do great if not you at least have the imp =]

Only dumb questions are ones not asked =D
19  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] Intro to Competitive Vintage on: September 10, 2006, 01:44:47 pm
I think it would be better to have a intro to a format be a free article rather then a pay article. Some peeps may just read it our of strict boredom or curiosity. The perhaps we may have accidental vintage players =]
20  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] Intro to Competitive Vintage on: September 08, 2006, 11:32:25 pm
It really needed to be non Premium, more folks could read about rich t1 actuly is
21  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Time Spiral's First Restricted Card on: September 08, 2006, 11:31:17 pm
Its possable this could be used in a diffrant deck archtype. Perhaps a oath combo type deal.
22  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: September 06, 2006, 04:15:33 pm
I personally like the aggro/disruption build. 4 layline, 4 unmask, 4 therapy, 2 needle, 2 chain, 4 chalice main. Adding 2cc spells in this deck is pretty bad. Normally if things go well you will never get  2 mana on the table. I am usually content with a city of brass and thats about it. Though 2 is optimal, who don't like hard casting therapy AND then flashing it back, after you bring that ghoul back or Pithing Needling the wasteland you seen in hand. 2 is fun but not necessary.

  As for the Entomb question. No it is not good in here, it is pretty much half of what you want for to much mana. The other 1cc spells in the deck, tutors, needle, imp, therapy, recall, they are all performing optimized and specific duties. Entomb is suboptimal, you have 4 cards that do part of its job for free, the tutors are more effective, and dredge gets stuff just as well. Though if magics minimum deck requirement were 61 it would probably be a no brainier.

  Play 4 trolls, they dredge and keep doing it, even after you removed the stinkweeds to feed ichorid.

Crypt is not as much of a problem as it was, i run main deck needles. With some practice you should be able to play around it.
Layline is a bit of a problem, ray of revelation was the standard to kill planer void but layline stops the flashback form ever happening ( IE it never actually gets in yard) i have been running 4 wax/wanes side vs planer void/mirror/oath and they have been working fine so far. Wane also has the added benefit if killing a dimir cut purse suited with a sword of f/i theeh.

23  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: September 02, 2006, 09:58:37 pm
hello all... today i am writing my very first post here on the mana drain, but i have been a long time reader.  after reading these forums as guest one too many times, ive decided to get myself a username and throw in my two cents.  first i would like to thow in a disclaimer and tell you i am years out of the loop in the tourney curcuit, and over one year out of playing a game. 

but this deck is something i have dreamed of for a long time... as a player in the days of ice age, i have always wondered on the power of a three one for one that never actually gets cast... and never really goes away.  sadly, like many great cards in this game it was sidelined on the "hey, this guy should be great" shelf with blokes like lions eye.  as lions eye demonstrated, it only takes one new goofy trick to make übercrap great. 

the mere fact this discussion is the longest running now... eight pages on how 4xgolgari troll can possibly be vintage material?  and the debates go on.  this is why i love this game evan though i never play... i turn my head away for a moment and the entire object has changed.

ok, enough introductory words, i would now like to share my thoughts on the ichorid deck.  i will not claim to know any kind of meta, so there is no sideboard for this list.

to start, it seems there is much debate on the value of hermit druid.  personally i think this version is  too much waiting around on summoning sickness for a deck revolving around hasted critters.  get 2 mana.... cast druid....... activate druid........ at the beginning of upkeep.............  WW Orims Chant with kicker  GG (or just a tendrils to the head somewhere in there)

as for the debate on power... some suggesting that even the last mox leave for concistency, my thought is more mana means more options... timewalk and balance are both instant (or rather sorcery) gameovers.  in a deck lacking that final je ne sais quoi, removing the two instant win sorceries seems a mistake to me.  i consider these two a two off in the 2cc win slot, and the remainder of the deck must therefore follow. 

2cc sorceries like moxes, but to cater to a 2 cc sorcery requires more than one.  therefore, i would go with the tolarian winds plan.  the winds give the biggest bang for the buck over cstudy and bstorm, potentially dumping twenty-odd cards in the yard for a ghoulish next turn.  4x winds with twalkbalance means 6 2cc sorceries, at which point supporting a  X 1  manabase begins to get appealing.  thus, the deck so far consists of:

4x tolarian winds
1x balance
1x timewalk

8x rainbow lands
5x mox
lotus, petal, chrome
(46 cards remaining)

next, the creature base.... first off, i despise this nonesense of 4x troll.... a card that does absolutely nothing but dredge? /(and count as a critter laying on a ghoul, but that barely counts).  ichy and skrachy though, are a given, as is the stinkweed imp.  the main threats heed a pile of black dudes in the yard, and not much else, so there are 12 slots in 3 auto fours.
(34 cards remaining)

4x bazaar
1x ancestral
1x crop rotation
1x vampiric tutor
these are the broken dudes that allow you to get everything and activate the dredge engine.  i refuse to use inperial seal.  sorry, im a purist and portal doesnt exist.  besides vamp is bad enough with the waiting, the thought of waiting a turn on a sorcery that will make me wait a turn is too much waiting, and i hate to wait for things except maybe trams that go somewhere i can sleep.
(27 cards remaining)

therefore, i will use the other instant speed B tutor.  why no entomb?  no really, i leave this question to the magic gurus, but why does not one single ichy deck use entomb.  its about getting things to the graveyard, right?  in the yard is as good as in the hand for half the cards in the deck, and entomb acn grab a dredger, put a deathstroke in hand next turn, pop a ray of revelation, or turn into a cabal therapy in a pinch.  thus, the following is a short entomb board.
1x entomb
1x deathstroke
1x ray of revelation
1x life from the loam
(loam goes along with the full power plan and x1 sorceries, and turns bazaar and winds into midgame draw engines)
(23 cards remaining)

disruption:
4x chalice (and setting to one is not a shot to the foot)
4x Unmask
4x cabal therapy
2x chain of vapor
i agree with every last word the experts have spoken on this section of the deck
(9 cards remaining)

stripmine
3x nether shadow
2x deep analysis
1x galgari grave troll (just to cast off the lotus)
2x undiscovered paradise

there are my thoughts on the ichy deck.  but the real question, for those of you gurus who have read so far,  is why on earth doesnt anyone use entomb?  there must be a simple reason.

tschüß

Do you even know what the deck does? Troll IS the most powerful card in the deck. YES all it does is dredge. Dude seriously pick up a ichorid list and try ti before you comment on here...
24  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: August 29, 2006, 04:23:39 am
Well, you certainly made the deck cheaper......but it seams it may just lose some speed. I don't know about you but i like moxes in my opening hand...... I normally find i like my opening hand to be bazaar + acceleration+1 land+1-2 dredgers+1-2 discard/disruption/tutor+1 threat, that way i can drop the bazaar drop the mox/lotus, draw 2 dump dredges/threats and play out discard/disruption/tutor. then next turn still have a land to  play. If i lose the moxen and lotus suddenly my turn 1s look very very bad every game. normally ending in: bazaar, draw 2, dump dredgers threats, Hope i have chalice or unmask, go....yuck.And thats the best possable turn 1. I want that scenario to happen as Little as possable. Note how much more broken the turn 1 is with acceleration then with out it. DISCLAIMER: Yes i know i posted a amazing starting hand, BUT i also posted the best turn 1 possable with out acceleration to see how they compare, it is noticeably diffrant the best starting hand in the unaccelerated version is the average hand for a deck with acceleration. Why then would you cut the ability to go broken on occasion for cards that are slower and increase the possability of having a no gas hand?

Chain is so very good, it stops the threat after its on the table, so i can draw into it AFTER the threat hits. Not to mention it bounces Eon Hub. Its a main deck answer to layline (mirror anyone?)  No, bouncing a spell like bridge dose not give you just 1 turn to deal 20, normally you have already hit for 6-9 before it hits, and when you chain eot, you of course after the attack step therapy it away. With out chain you can not answer DSC, layline, or bridge main, sure stifle answers the rest just as well, but its what your not covering that beats you.
25  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: August 28, 2006, 02:35:02 am
Don't cut lotus, petal or mox, they all let you use chain of vapor ( this can be so important) and recall. Yes petal can be mediocre, but some times that 1 random mana is the difference between bouncing the opposing DSC and dying next turn =/ If you cut out those 3 blue sources you are left with just 8 in the deck, and those are lands. Not to mention i have more then once hit 2-3 ghouls all at once with lotus ( thats such a fuzzy feeling) I however hate chromemox more then any other mana source, it seams to always be a waste of 2 cards for a mana source i normally don't need. Like what do you pitch to it mostly? Putrid imp?( i would rather just cast him, unless i have something nasty in hand like say vamp, seal or hard cast therapy. Sometimes i just rather pitch him to bazaar to feed a future ichorid.) layline (shouldn't this of went out turn 0 though?) Stinkweed...(umm no) ichorid/ghoul ( NO!) chain/recall(why do i need th blue mana if i just removed the blue spell......) Troll(read ichorid) unmask (woun't you rather hit a card in opponents hand?) see most hands its really bad, don't get me wrong its fine sometimes but it is card disadvantage with no immediate gain more often then not, unlike unmask which is card disadvantage with immediate gain. (some times it is card advantage like when you hit a recall or yagmoths will)


breathweapon: In D if they are playing long, if they played out all the 0 cc artifacts turn 1 they are not playing it right, unless of course they are expecting to go off that turn. I would hope they hold something back to go off with. If not they are going to have a much harder time comboing out.
26  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Meandeck Ichorid on: August 28, 2006, 12:30:46 am
very intersting, i actuly chose black lotus for scenario A.

B all depends on thier turn 1, did they tutor, brainstorm, land go? I think what they did turn 1 has alot on what i woudl name. but dark rit sounds like a top notch card there.

C: yeah dark ritual does sound right

D: ditto but with the what did he do turn 1 factor.
27  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Vintage Oath on: August 21, 2006, 01:10:48 pm
Is Garza Zol wworth playing over razia? She seams like she MIGHT be better but mabey not (no vigalance)
28  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Expansions dissected on: August 07, 2006, 06:41:17 am
Anycard that decks are built around should probly not be cat 4 but cat 3, ichorid hardly playable...AKROMA wth..

34-36. Legions - 4 points
Cat. 1: -
Cat. 2: -
Cat. 3: -
Cat. 4: Akroma Angel of Wrath, Caller of the Claw, Gempalm Incinerator, Phage the Untouchable

34-36. Coldsnap - 4 points
Cat. 1: -
Cat. 2: -
Cat. 3: Counterbalance, Jotün Grunt

Am i the only one that sees problems with that? Akroma is vauled LESS then a Grunt or the untested counterbalance.... Question
29  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Sideboarding In Type 1 on: August 04, 2006, 03:41:14 am
I think it's pretty ridiculous to assume that you know what your opponent is sideboarding in.  I always change my sideboard for each new tournament to reflect the regional metagame, so if you get my decklist off Star City and think you know what I'm boarding in based on that information, then you are probably wrong.  MORE IMPORTANTLY - The person who is playing the deck will often have a different sideboard strategy than another player playing the same archtype.  I played against THE EXACT SAME DECK with THE EXACT SAME SIDEBOARD played by two different individuals at the same tournament and faced COMPLETELY DIFFERENT sideboard cards. 

The quote stated above suggests that there is a predetermined sideboard plan that you will use in every match vs a given archtype.  If that were the case, then there wouldn't be a lot to think about, you'd side your cards in, he sides his cards in and you play a textbook match-up just like in your testing scenarios.  In real life it doesn't work that way, so you can just side in your cards, attempt some kind of bluff by sideing in more cards and then siding them out, or just side in the full 15.  I think the safe bet is to just to put the 15 in there and not really give your opponent any extra info.   

Of course if your opponent is a random n00b you probably can guess their sideboard, but then again, if they're a random n00b you'll probably win anyway, so why even worry about that?

How is it ridiculous to have a fair idea of what my opponent is sideing in? Honestly not all sidecards are created equal obv, but you should , keyword is should, know what the normal and usual cards that you will see boarded in for any given match up would be. Lets say your facing off vs a ICBM oath player and your staxx, you pretty much know the common cards he is going to board in, and some of the more off the wall stuff as well you can be pretty sure some number of oxidizes are coming in and 2-3 energy fluxs, other cards i would keep in mind are, needle, darkblast, and maybe even ground seal. If he goes for the 15 in 15 out plan, i know he did not go 15 in 15 out probably more like 7 in 7 out. Don't know for sure but i can at least take a educated guess.

"The quote stated above suggests that there is a predetermined sideboard plan that you will use in every match vs a given archtype" Yes, i do have a predetermined sideboard plan for each and every major match up i believe i will see at that particular event. i prepare something like 3-4 sideboards while testing the a deck. When i get to the event i decide which one i would rather use and go from there.

"I played against THE EXACT SAME DECK with THE EXACT SAME SIDEBOARD played by two different individuals at the same tournament and faced COMPLETELY DIFFERENT sideboard cards. "

Then one of them made a mistake. If they had the same sideboard and someone did not board a card that was good vs you into their deck, either the side was built overkill for the match up and they made a mistake in building the side OR the other guy made a gross underestimation of the strength of a card vs that match-up. Heck, it could even of been the card that was diffrant was actually NOT meant for your match up and was boarded in anyway because it was just marginally good vs your deck.

"I always change my sideboard for each new tournament to reflect the regional metagame, so if you get my decklist off Star City and think you know what I'm boarding in based on that information, then you are probably wrong. "

Thats fine, metagaming is very important to sideboarding, BUT, big but there, there are always some cards that are "standard" in every sideboard of a archtype.
30  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Sideboarding In Type 1 on: August 01, 2006, 01:43:26 pm
I think you guys may be overthinking the whole "how to sideboard" thing. Honestly its pretty OBV what your opponent is going to bring in. I can usually name all or most of the cards they brought in and most of what they took out. If i can do that i am sure most players can as well. I gave up on the 15 in 15 out awhile back, it just felt like i was underestimating my opponent. He knows what deck i am playing, i should assume he has a TMD.com or a scgs.com account and knows the top decks and if i have some freaky tech the only information he can glean is i boarded in some cards.

As for testing sideboards, thats a must. You can't expect to go to a event not knowing/remembering a sideboard plan, you will just lose 1/3 of your games that way. That not how to top 8.


While it's true that there may be some "obvious" cards that decks board against other decks, there are often new/tech/obscure cards that some people use, and like someone mentioned earlier, if you can cause your opponent to think you are borading in cards when infact you are not, you have gained an advantage.


Agreed thier are new/tech/obscure cards but your opponet won't know what they are, they can't see them. Chances are you took out 1-2 cards that would normaly go in that match up to make room for the new tech . So worst possable scenario, your opponet sees you brought in 2 more cards then expected  :shock:. I just don't see the advantage.

EDIT: No i was not sitting here wating ona reply, i just sort of got on to check e-mail and noticed you posted when i refreshed the page XD. I am NOT that much of a geek LOL =]
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