Thought I would reintroduce myself because it has been a while. I have just gotten back into magic after about 4 to 5 years of hiatus, and a big move. I started years ago with revised when I was just a kid growing up in CT. Years later I moved to RI and got into playing small tournaments around the year 2000.
After a while I decided to get further into bigger tournaments and tried quite a few. Never really did to good, but I enjoyed playing. That is the main thing. I had tried some of the other types of magic, but none hold the thrill for me that Vintage does, with the ability to play any card I want.
Around 2008 I took an unplanned hiatus. I just got busy with life. Well fast forward to now, I have moved to the Corpus Christi area of TX where I have found 1 person (the owner of a local store) who plays Vintage. Always enjoyed the format, and will be reading and absorbing everything that is said here. Maybe even throw in my two cents every now and then.

Of course I will miss the Vintage scene from the North East, but everyone has to make due with where they live. Maybe I can convince some others around here to play

  Well thbat just sucks, but then saftey first, and you dont want people's saftey to at risk. On the other hand now I dont think there is any chance of me attending due to the fact that its so close to christmas.

  The Sox are going to win tonight, than move on to beat those pesky Rockies for the championship once again.

The Unforgiven
Goodfellas
Finding Nemo (Thanks to my two girls)
The Shining (whose better at playing crazy than Jack?)
Batman (see above but put in the Joker)
and of course I cant watch all of A Few Good Men...but in the trial when he is doing his rant about the truth...
I don't know if it was mentioned but Reservoir Dogs is always good too

Wow....I just found this thread and you guys are so great on your predictions...

 Ok, So me being a Red Sox Fan I am going to have to go with the Sox in seven against the Indians, and the Rockies in Five To make the Series Sox v Rockies with the Sox coming out on top.

  When you compare the Sox pitching to the Indians I think the edge goes to the Sox. Beckett V Sabathia. I will take Beckett any day, let alone the fact that Sabathia is a lefty pitching in Fenway to start out the Series. Not Very promising. There are few lefties that pictch as well in Fenway park as they do elsewhere. The edge will go to the Sox there. Than you have Carmona and Schilling. You cant take away from Schilling history in the playoffs, but at this time I think Carmona is a better pitcher at this time....than again the last time he pitched at fenway park he was blowing saves. I will still give the edge to Carmona.

  Than the next two games will be owned by the Sox bats. They know how to hit these pitchers.
  And you cant discount the fact that the Red Sox also have much more Playoff Experience than these Indians. Thats Why I think Epstien chose a lot of these players. They just know how to win when its on the line. They might not know how to win when they have a 10 + game leads but almost all of there starters have shown themselves in playoffs in the past...the only one who hasn't is Daisuke, and he was picked up for his performanc ein the world baseball classic. Just watch.

Dan

  Since I have started playing slaver people have been either maindecking this hate or bringing it in. It is how you play around it.  The thing I have noticed is that Null Rods are being played less and less as they don't do much against GAT, Flash, or Stax which are their three biggest concerns right now.
  Leylines on the other hand are an iffy thing to bring in against slaver. It works out great if it is in your opening hand, but how much are you going to mulligan to get it. Most likely if you draw it with your first, second or third draw your most likely not going to play it, wanting to play other things in your hand.
  People must also try and figure out how much they want to bring in just to stop you...how much of their deck they want to take out. I have played against people who have brought in their whole sideboard, thus killing their decks and actually giving me an easier time beating them.
  Slavers problem is not the hate against it, but the speed of the decks against it. The thing I have always felt with Slaver though is its ability to find a weakness in these decks and exploit it. GAT's would be its reliance on Non-basic lands. Look at Menendian list. He splashed Red and played maindeck REB, but he only had one basic Island. Drop down a blood moon earliy enough and that deck is stuck. NO gush, dryads or psychatogs...well he will still be able to play that REB though.


  I wouldn't say thirst will never resolve. It does ocasionlly, as does Tinker. The thing is knowing when to play it, and how important it is at the time. A lot of times you can use it as counter bait.

 

  My question is have you actually played slaver? You use welders to bring in your big artifacts that have been discarded to thirst.


  I am as of this moment trying to figure out if I should run duresses main or to go with REBs. With magus's it would seem more proficient with REBs, but duresses are more of a proactive solution to some of the things being played out there. It lets me see their hand and get the card I want, where as REB lets me hit a blue spell.

  I don't know why I choose to play Slaver over GAT, other than the fact that I have been playing it for a while and feel comfortable playing it. Furthermore the hate that people used to throw in against slaver are being played less and less. There are fewer Null Rods and most people don't bring in Leyline against Slaver. Something about it not being great enough just to beat Slaver the way it does Flash and Ichiroid.

  What Slaver has that neither do is the ability to run REB. Not quite as good as Duress, but I think its slightly better than misdirection.

 
  Platinum Angel has been so-so for me. Sometimes it flies in for the win, other times it gets bounced right after they hit me with a leathal something. Duplicant can take away some their win conditions, and it costs just as much as Plat if it needs to be hard cast. I have been toying around with playing with dupe and plat as my two robots. I really don't like more than that because they tend to sit dead in your hand , which is something you dont want in either match up.

  Duress can be played in Slaver too, but with Magus of the Moon I wouldn't play more than one or two. You are already limited by your low amount of Black mana. Maybe some combo of Duress and REB would be ideal.

  I was also thinking about Bloodfire Dwarf in the sideboard instead of pyroclasm. It does one less damage, but it cost one red to cast, one red to sacrafice, and it happens at instant speed. It would be great at stopping those darn slivers.

Dan

  First off Slaver can be metagamed to give any deck a battle.Since the first day of the last waterbury I haven't lost a match to flash....GAT on the other hand has been my Achilles heal.
 
  My suggestions are..

 Drop Gifts and FoF. They are great bombs...but they cost too much. Replace them with duresses. They work at taking flashes from the flash player.
  I would also take out the Gorilla Shaman and Misdirections for Magus of the Moon. This has been what I have been recently testing against GAT and it seems to give you at least a fighting chance. A first or second turn Moon isn't too shabby against STAX either.

 Of course I should point out that my Metagame is GAT heavy which is why I suggest the Moos maindeck. If it is more stax than I would keep at least on Gorrilla Shaman Main.

 I might also change Titan for Triskelion/Triskelivus just for the fact it can plug off Slivers. Titan does nothing to slow down any of these decks. By the time it comes in Flash will have already won, or have the two man it needs, Gat will just Gush it back into their hands, and Stax doesn't play enough basics land types.Maybe mountains.

 Dan

  So I've been around here for a while and just thought I would actually introduce myself.

  Hi, I'm Dan.  I've been playing magic since about the time of The Dark and Revised. I stopped playing about the time Mirage came out, and I started up once again about the time Oddesey came out.
  I found myself quickly sucked into the local tournament scene at a small store called BBRI. It was $5 and no proxy, but it was fun. They ended up holding a proxy tournament and I actually had my first taste of true tournament magic and I loved every minute of it. This was about the time Scourge came out.
 Now as much as I was being sucked into tournaments life intervened for almost two years. My wife had gotten sick and I had to take care of her. I still had a little time to play magic during that time, mostly around the table with my friends. It was a great escape at the time.
  After all this had passed, sort of...I found myself yearing to once again immerse myself in tournament magic, and soon enough I was playing at BBRI, than I went to a Star City event, and now you can usually catch me at any tournament in and around RI. Any farther and it gets to be too far to travel, unless its over its a P9 event.

Dan

 

  Flash needs to be restricted. It makes vintage feel more like blackjack...sure there is some skill involved, but its mostly luck.

  I am on the edge with Gush....I personally would have liked to see a metagame with both Gifts and Gush unrestricted. I think it would have been interesting

  Merchant Scroll could be restricted...than again it might not need to be. If they restrict both flash and gush than it needs not to be, but with either being unrestricted than Merchant Scroll needs the axe.

Dan

 I loved your report. I just wanted to make on little correction. Colin is in fact Gabe. He is a great guy and loves to play magic, its just a shame that this metagame has him so upset that you probably won't see him out of our local store until either flash or merchant scroll are restricted.
  I think his actual quote was "F@#$in flash here, F@#$in tog there, and a little bomberman thrown in for fun. Doesn't anyone innovate anymore or do they just all just copy everyone else."
 
  I wanted to tell him that his third round opponent doesn't, but it kind of looked like he was having fun complaining.

Dan

PS did I say your report was great.

  Thats a little tricky, but can be done. You need a crypt in play. When the ability of Gaea's Blessing is on the stack you crypt them before it resolves. Or you have Leyline of the Void in play. Either way it makes it a bit tougher, but not impossible.

Dan

  If you want to go the brain freeze route, I would go to something like Almost Blue, a deck the Europeans have been running. There is a list on this tournament report here with a little conversation about it.http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32606.0

  I have done a little playing around with it, but haven't done anything with it since Gush was unrestricted.

Dan

  A couple of choices would be to put in a tendrils there or wheel of fourtune to draw seven ne cards and stock up your graveyard for y. will. the problem with that is your limited red sources.

  I would also take out remand. If your useing that to counter Mana Leak, Rune Snag or Delay would be better. If your using it for a free draw and to up your storm repeal would be better (tap mox, bounce back to your hand replay mox)

 Chalice works against this deck. You want to be able to play your 0 cc spells so that can be dropped from the Sideboard. You could always replace one with a Darksteel Collosus so you have another way to win after boarding.

  What is your meta like? Is it a lot of top teir decks (ichiroid, gifts, flash) or is it a bunch of random stuff?

Dan

There is also a memory jar in this list. Cant say that it would be optimal in gifts, just that its there.
 
 I would drop the wasteland and add either another Island or volcanic island.I think they would help you out more than the wasteland.

 Dan

That really sums up why I think crypt is still good in Slaver. I have just recently also started testing Yixlid Jailer in my sideboard for this match up. I have three in there right now. So post sideboard my deck ends up being four crypts and three jailers. The whole idea is to keep throwing speed bumps in front of them until  your ready. Both crypt and jailer can be cast turn one.
  Ichiroid has a tough time finding answers. They have no tutors, so the best they can do is bazzar and hope. With the jailer out they have to find an answer to that, which it the best for that deck would be contagion (basically free) depending on the build you might have shut down there cabal therepies which leaves them no way to strip your hand of counters.

  The flash match up seems tougher. You cant out counter them. Some are immune to graveyard hate  ( disciple mainly), and they go off pretty quick. I just havent done that much testing in that area yet. Maybe sphere of resitance or trinisphere to make their flashes cost three, and up the cost of the pacts. Trickbind could work too. Split second, they cant use the ability the rest of the turn.

Dan

  I am going to have to agree with the maindeck Tormods crypt, and I would drop memory jar...or at least side it out against ichroid. No reason helping them load up their graveyards.

  I am a minority in the fact that I think leyline is the only way to go. In slaver you have welders which means you should be able to get a couple of uses out of a crypt. That should slow them down enough for you to do something.

  Now with Flash you have to break it down. Rector Flash, Hulk Flash with karmic guide win are both reliant on the graveyard so hate that way could do it.
   Disciple Flash is the one flash without use of the graveyard, but it carries less counter. Maybe just board in REBs.
 
 I have been thinking about pithing needle lately too. It can be used to stop Bazaar, which is another speed bump for Ichiroid to have to pass over. It can be used to stop parts of all three flash combos.

  Now in doing all of this we have to remember that there are other decks to beat too. Against Gifts the graveyard hate is great. Grim long it is so-so, so there needs to be something else. I personally use sphere of resistances. It slows them down so you have a chance to win.
 
 Dan

   In todays metagame you defanitly need three or four t crypts. It works much better in this deck than leyline of the void. Slaver is not a deck that you want to mulligan itself to oblivion looking for that leyline. Later in the game it is a dead draw. 
   Against storm decks I like to bring in spheres of resistance. It slows them down just enough to give you time to set yourself up. Tormod's Crypt also helps out here.
   Gifts in this deck is just like in Gifts. It resolves and you win. It puts you so far ahead that your opponent has a tough time catching up. You can use it to dump artifacts in your yard, or you grab y will/tinker with it. I also use 1 or 2 thirst for knowledge and 2 or 3 merchant scrolls. That really depends on what I feel like at the time.
   I have been tossing around Yixlid Jailers and extripates in my head, but I havent tried either one just yet. I have tried Street Wraith and honestly I'm not sold on it just yet. It is a great card, but for the loss of life I don't know if it does enough to spped Slaver up enough.

Dan

  I have to say that there is a different feel between a proxie and a non proxie tournament. We have a local store that holds a non-proxy tournament every week and you tend to find more aggro based decks than you do in a proxie tourn. You have to go into each with a different mindset.
  We don't get more than 20 people at this tournament, but I think that is more the fact that it is a small payout and it is a weekly event, but it is a place that we know we can play for hours.
  The weirdest thing though is the fact that about 25% of the people that play here are fully powered, and about half have some power, but that really makes no difference. There is an unpowered fish deck that almost always ends up in the finals. We also have a good showing of the top teir decks that you see in all of these tournament reports. Gifts, Long, Stax, Fish, and Slaver.
  On the other side with proxie tournaments it is nice when you sit across from your apponent with no proxies and you start dropping your power and they ask if that is real.It does make owning the power nine worth it. It also means that you don't ever have to worry about using proxies for some of the most commonly played cards, and you can proxie up something that you want to add but don't have just yet....like that extra empty the warrens for your sideboard.

Dan

 I was your round 3 opp...Dan not Josh.

Lets see what I remember. There was a point in the first game where you hit me with a duress in which I was holding Force, Time Walk, Thirst for Knowledge and demonic tutor. You took Force than cast meddling mage naming thirst. I had no black mana so my only play was time walk which yeilded nothing. Next time I will just Force the duress.

The second game I remember casting Merchent scroll and ancestral first turn off Black lotus and drawing nothing. I also think I had two welders out after you took the first one on threads. You pretty much owned me .

Dan

Quote From:diopter

 I don't think that Gifts would die. You would just have to change your win condition. You could go Recoup,Burning Wish, Tinker and Time Walk amoung other things. Will is just an easier way to go. This is why I think Gifts is broken with or without Will

Dan

  If I have about a months notice I would love to attend just to prove that gifts ungiven is broken with or without Will.

Dan

  So people play less drains, but than top eights have 75% FOWs in it.....will you be looking at FOW needing to be curtailed. Even if Brainstorm was restricted with it, a blue based control decks would still preform almost as well. Blue just has too much broken goodness.

 Think about the cards that go into almost all drain based decks. Ancestral, Time Walk, Tinker, Mystical Tutor, This is along with Mana Drain, FOW, and Brainstorm. 

  Dan

  The problem with banning anything in vintage is we start down a slippery slope. Vintage is suppose to be the format in which all cards should be playable to a certain extent. The ones that have been banned fall under certain criteria. Being too powerfull not being one of them.
  Think about if Will was banned and you started getting gifts piles of Tinker, Time Walk, Burning Wish and Recoup ? How is that anyless powerful than a Will plan? Both ways tend to mean game over assuming you have the countermagic to back it up.
  Now people start looking at Tinker and say that card is almost as powerfull as Y. Will was, than a couple more years pass by and peoples memories fade on the true power of Will and start saying Tinker is more broken than Will ever was. We should Ban that card too.
   Try playing some of these decks that abuse Will and remove it from them. Play as if its already Banned. Do the still win? In my testing, the type that gets hit the hardest are the Tendrils decks..ie Long style. They tend to have a much more random nature to them. Gifts is still able to force through its wins...even more so now due to ETW. Slaver still runs the way it should.  I can't think of any other types that abuse Will the way these three decks do.
   In conclusion I feel that Banning Will is not the way to go. It will weaken cmbo, but will it weaken it to the point of extinction? Who knows? I would rather not start banning things just to see how different the environment is.

Dan J

Dan

 
The problem is it seems you were only taking the decks named gifts. There are versions of Slaver that now run it and they weren't counted in that percentage.  I can come up with at least three off the top of my head.
 
  These would be the Dry Slaver varity, which runs at least three Gifts. I think as time goes on Gifts will be abused more and more.

Dan

   Yes they were coffee pots, but sadly they were all empty when we got there, but on a good note we were all treated to free cans of red bull.
   It was a great event, held in a great place. I really enjoyed myself.  I enjoyed the pictures too.

Dan J

  Have you considered running Watchwolf? your running both w+g and a 3/3 creature for that much could be better than most at that cost. I think the only one better would be Jotun Grunt.

Dan

  Has anyone who has run Mana Leaks ever thought about Rune Snag?

   For anyone that doesn't know, Rune Snag says
   
    U1
    Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2 plus an additional 2 for each card named Rune Snag in each graveyard.

  So the first one is generally has a little less strength than mana leak, but as the game goes on it gains in power. It seems to stay somewhat usefull in the late game where Mana leak stays at 3 the whole way through.

Dan

As I was reading this I was wondering why Nights Whisper is a good addition to control slaver and Merchant Scroll is not. After comparing both of them I couldn't come up with a reasonable answer.

Pros for Nights Whisper
You draw two cards, netting you one.

Cons
It costs 2 life
It is black, meaning your exposing your mana base quicker.

Pros for Merchant Scroll
You get a card you want. In a broad sense. It gets you answers.
It is blue so it doesnt expose your black mana.

Cons
It doesnt net you any cards. Its a one for one deal on its own.

Am I missing something when comparing these two for CS? I dont see how one is worse than the other.

Dan