Very much this.  Even though I got crushed, it was cool going into a 64 player premier event!

I got crushed by more than one opponent running maindeck ancient grudges or Trygons.

sylverfyre on MTGO

Totally bombed (including several punts) the premier event today.  Invite me to make me feel better

Invited -Z

Sounds dangerous.  I'm in!

The 9:30 EST daily event today was 27 people, so I'd be shocked if a little organization isn't enough to run this thing nicely.

I honestly find that 19 mana sources is too low.  I feel like legacy merfolk decks that this was adapted from get away with it due to Aether Vial, but there are just so many unkeepable opening hands with only 15 blue sources, when you ABSOLUTELY need UU on turn 2 due to your lords.

I also feel that Rejerey is quite weak, and I've experimented with cutting some of them for True-name Progenitus, Sygg River Cutthroat, Cold-eyed selkie, and some other ideas.  I don't feel that you need 3 TNN maindeck if you do choose to run them, but bringing some in for

I also find that Spell Pierce is often a more reliable counter than Daze when dealing with the incredible mana acceleration of Vintage, and I'm not super happy with maindecking Steel Sabotage in my local meta which has few consistent shops players.  I still run daze, but I split the non-force counters as 3 misstep, 2 pierce, 2 daze rather than 4/0/3 split you're running.  You won't resolve turn 2 null rod every game to make your dazes last past the earliest turns, and you really want to play your second blue source before you have to start bouncing your islands.

Considering how the deck is in the dredge and shops matchups, I also think it's dishonest to only have 4 Cage and the needle as your sole dredge hate (you still have quite a few dead FOWs to side out, use other things to counter their antihate) and dismember as the only thing to bring in vs. shops - I think there should be more Steel Sabotage/Hurkyl's Recall in the board instead of cute stuff like Mindbreak Trap (storm is not a bad matchup for any deck with 16 maindeck counterspells, heavy mana denial, and a fast clock)

double post im bad.

Would love to slap a Sword on this guy, especially of the Feast and Famine variety.  Untapping lands to cast spells sounds good to me? (Double strike untapping twice, so you can cast an instant in between first strike damage and normal damage!)

Kinda agreeing with this sentiment though:

Even the "mighty" True-name nemesis has some of the same issues in vintage because it does neither of these things.

If you're counting Cursecatchers, that's not actually more counterspells than the original list I posted:

4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
1 Flusterstorm
1 Steel Sabotage
(4 Cursecatcher)
= 16 things that can counter.

When you said 16 counters, I thought you were actually reducing your creature count and adding more spell pierces/dazes/whatever.

I've lately been avoiding playing merfolk, because playing vs. Abrupt Decay is really REALLY frustrating (and it seems to be gaining popularity at my LGS.)  Playing vs BUG fish or other lists that maindeck Decay heavily leads you to having no good attacks when they have 2 mana open, because they decay a lord and then block-blowout on your shrunken, no-longer-islandwalking dudes.  Yes, there's games that you just slam down too many lords, but they have the superior draw power via Bob so it's not unlikely for them to dig for enough removal.

I've thought about squeezing in misdirection in the board but the board is already pretty tight as is.

What are you using for the counter suite?  I found dazes to become dead too often due to all the fast mana as compared to Legacy.  I figure 4 Spell Pierces could work, but what else?  Flusterstorm feels too narrow for more than 1 or 2 maindeck, same with steel sabotage and Swan Song.

Just goldfishing so far but skirge seems nice for being more easily clamped, and the flying is nice for overloaded ravager attacks.

Edit: Have tested in some matchups with my friend against Oath and Storm decks, and the Vault Skirge is performing quite nicely.  While I can see the frogmite being cool for very often being a 0-drop, having 2 toughness can be REALLY OBNOXIOUS when you don't have a second clamp or an arcbound ravager and you need to generate more cards.  Also, the flying and lifelink both seem extremely relevant in the current metagame I'm facing which has a notable number of creature decks which could pose annoying blockers such as Junk Hatebears, Merfolk, and Trinket Mages - You don't even need to test to see how flying lifelink is meaningful in matchups like that.

It's also been extremely relevant in one game that I had the Oath deck at under 7 life with griselbrand out, and had a ravager and a vault skirge + other dudes.  He couldn't attack with griselbrand for lifelinking damage without me block-sacrificing and swinging back for lethal, and he couldn't block for lifelinking damage for the same reason.

Hunted down your list, the only thing I'm gonna change for now is swapping Frogmites for Vault Skirges.

Wow, just watched that match and I'm really impressed and extremely excited to play the deck now.

However, I feel like there's one thing I'm worried about that isn't addressed: What do you do about Mental Misstep?  Seems like EVERYONE has them now, and it seems like they can easily save them for your Skullclamps to slow you down heavily.  In your experience, when faced with losing your clamp, what's your goal - do you revert to playing it like a more straightforward aggro deck with some tax/disruption effects mixed in?

The normally "obvious answer" of bringing in your own misstep has the severe problem of diluting your creature base which greatly reduces the power of both Clamp and Chamber.

Also, what do you do against Null Rod?

I guess that's me not really understanding how good the chamber-clamp combo is, then.  I stand corrected.

1: True.  But we already have like 25+ creatures (the list im looking at has 30 not even counting blinkmoths/factories)
2: I'm unsold on genesis chamber tbh.  Modern lists don't run it and they are completely based on flooding the board with artifact creatures.  It doesn't seem to be great because it will often come down AFTER you've dropped half of your hand on turn 1.  On the other hand, modern lists might also not be running it because opposing creature decks benefit so heavily from it too, and that may be less of a concern here.
3: If you have an empty board playing this deck, you're probably about to scoop.  These lists are running 25+ creatures and skullclamp, after all.  Losing so many creatures is... not good.

Finally, I don't see how this deck doesn't just scoop to a null rod...  It turns off all 3 bombs and most of your mana.  Halp.

On colored mana:
I really am getting the feeling that we need to bring in colored mana here - either 1 color or 5c (glimmervoid/brass are the most likely)We have some glaring weaknesses, like Stony Silence/Null Rod, which can really only be answered with colored mana.  However, we'd need to adjust the manabase to have at least 12 sources of whatever color we're looking at, and that's... hard.

Colors I'm looking at mostly include Green (krosan grip or claim) or Blue (Power cards, Thoughtcast, and Spell Pierce/other counters)

Time walk seems particularly brutal in a deck like this which dumps creatures very fast then wins through the red zone.

One thing I feel is missing that makes the Modern Affinity lists strong is Manlands - they synergize really well with Ravager (in both directions - sacking them to ravager when you no longer need the mana, or putting ravager's counters on them if they try to kill it.) and work well with your overall game plan of "Dump all the cards in my hand ASAP and crush them through combat"  And we have access to a really strong artifact-manland that modern doesn't in the form of Mishra's Factory.  I definitely think Blinkmoth and Factory could be worthwhile instead of some of your other lands - you don't need THAT much mana to get going in most of these lists.

Also, I feel that Cranial Plating is a generally much faster threat than Steel Overseer - Overseer is the slowest of the three cards that "make my pile of 1/1 dorks into threats" (arcbound ravager, cranial plating, and steel overseer.)  Cranial plating adds its power to the board the same turn as when you cast it, and scales off both your artifact creatures AND your mana-artifacts.  Overseer doesn't have an impact until the turn after you play him, and the power increase only scales off your artifact creatures.  It's still good, but the cranial plating clock is much faster - turn 2 cranial plating can easily you can swing for 8+ on turn 2, threatening a turn 3 kill.
This kind of explosive draw doesn't even require specific hands - any hand that can cast a T1 lodestone (which means it has minimum 1 of your 7 mana artifacts) and also has a cranial plating will be swinging for 8 or more on turn 2.  With a lodestone in play.  Cranial is also best friends with Tangle wire, while Overseer isn't.

I'm not saying to cut overseers entirely, but Cranial plating imo is an automatic 4 of.  Cut a frogmite and some noncreatures.


Modern Affinity doesn't really care about the BB instant-speed too much either - it's nice when it happens and opens up some cute plays (mostly involving creature vs creature matchups), but it's hardly core to its function.  Its main function is that it provides an extremely fast clock.

Eidolon of Countless Battles only counts Auras, not all enchantments.  I am on the fence of whether it's going to make an impact on Standard let alone Eternal formats.

Bile Blight has issues because it falls short on mana vs. most creature kill (Swords, Bolt, even Doom Blade/Ult Price.) and also is massively less versatile than Detention Sphere which I've seen as a miser in some UW Angels control lists (which also has the 'target ALL of that card' effect.)

Courser is no Oracle of Mul Daya - not giving you the additional land drops to abuse makes it a worse engine.  Yes, you can fastbond.  But then you're looking at a 2 card combo that isn't really doing anything more broken than what fastbond does on a daily basis.

I do think Brimaz can break in and see play at all - Goyf has serious issues when he's staring down a Deathrite Shaman, and he isn't White.  The clock on Brimaz is also a turn faster than on a 4-power Goyf when goldfishing.  He also does a better job of pushing damage past chumps.

Kiora's follower I want to dork around with in a UG merfolk list running Thada so I can play either my own or my enemy's time vault, but I'm pretty sure it's an awful idea.

Lily is the real deal.  Sacrifices true-names all day while slowing down the clock because I had to beat her down.  Trinket mage is also surprisingly obnoxious how much time that 2/2 body can buy you against merfolk. 

As merfolk, not being able to swing in with my lord when I'm on 1 lord + some other guys is a huge clock extender.

I think what I want right now is a second Waterfront Bouncer.  It's a semi-uncounterable solution to BSC which also partially solves the S&T/Oath problem.

I want to find a place for Sygg, River Cutthroat in this list.  A lot of games I lose, I get a nice board presence and dump my hand early, but it gets dealt with somehow (EE, Deluge, 1-for-1 from an opponent with better card draw)
and having something besides cantripping silvergills (which I can't even cast after I've dropped my hand on the board) would be rather nice.

Sure, Daze on the play is great, but even on the draw it's kinda bad, and drawing it after turn... 2-3 on the play is usually bad too.

I'm not pulling them out for now, at any rate.  The threat of them is huge.  I guess I can just side them out for different countermagic when im on the draw game 2 OR 3.

Ugh yeah @ Submerge - if they Oath off Forbidden Orchard, I'm just screwed :/

Another waterfront bouncer or two in the board?  They can't counter him, and at that point (they've drawn cards off griz) I'm generally trying to win by having the better boardstate and/or uncounterable spells, fully knowing that they have the better hand.

Woops.  I was shuffling things around (originally i had all the power in one section) and then I must have accidentally cut them between reorganizing the list (it was not well-sorted before) and counting to 60.

Fixed the decklist (-1 island, +1 sapphire, -1 image +1 lotus.)

Another problem is 15 blue sources feels really shaky in a lot of games that I'll be looking at a grip of UU creatures and 1 island. :/
Also I'd love to make room for Mutavaults, but I dunno what to cut.  Maybe a little bit of disruption and something in the 3CC slot?

There's a lot of times that Flusterstorm functionally reads "Cannot be countered" though.  And it auto-wins vs. storm.

I'll try singing to some swans, though.  I'm also considering straight up cutting daze, its so rare I can get it to stick, and its also rare I even have the option to use Daze during my Main phase since about half the time my dudes are uncounterable.

-2 Daze +1 Misstep +1 Spell Pierce, with Swan Songs in the sideboard?

Another card I've briefly considered is Stifle, but I'm honestly not a big fan of it.  Countering fetchlands is cool and all, but how often am I really doing that?  And it's missteppable.

I swear, if Swan Song could counter artifacts, I'd run it in a heartbeat.  I'm so sad it doesnt.  On the other hand, Spell pierce CAN, but it's so easy for them to have 2 extra mana.

I do have one maindeck sabotage

I love the Mox and Lotus, because it's really common that I'm actually using one or both to accelerate INTO a Null rod, and I'm quite happy with that.  If I can stick a null rod in most matchups, I'm probably gonna win - 2 dead cards in my deck vs like 8+ in most opponents decks?  (Engineered explosives gets played against me a lot, too.  Nice to head that off before it can go off.)

I like the TNN vs. Delver/BUG Fish and other creature decks with Goyf and such.  Vs oath it's just a 3 power dude that doesnt get bolted.

The decklist I'm currently running (Sideboard is a little flaky right now, I've swapped things here and there.)
(The old merfolk thread hasn't been posted in in ages, rather not necro it.)

Edit: Oops, made some minor errors in the decklist.

Spells - 17
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
1 Flusterstorm
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

3 Null Rod

# Creatures - 23
(1 CMC)
4 Cursecatcher
(2 CMC)
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Phantasmal Image
1 Waterfront Bouncer
(3 CMC)
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Meerow Reejerey

# Mana - 20
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Cavern of Souls
9 Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire

# Sideboard
4 Grafdigger Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Steel Sabotage
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Flusterstorm

The matchup I'm having the hardest time against (and is a common one at my home store) is vs. Oath
I just don't feel like I have enough things to do to handle Oath and/or Griselbrand.  The few games I've won tend to be the ones where they get things down too slowly, and I get them down to sub-7 life before they get Griselbrand out, then either kill them on the next turn (while they can't block because island) or copy him with a Phantasmal Image.

Grafdigger's cage is nice and all, but it does Nothing against the Show&Tells that they always bring in postboard, knowing I'll bring in Cage.  Also shutting it down with a pithing needle (Or Revoker) before he comes down is nice, but he's still a 7/7 lifelinker that I can't race if they either A) stop getting islandwalked or B) get to swing in with him.

Things I was thinking about bringing in on board to have a better handle on Oath
Submerge (particularly in response to them drawing cards off griz since they don't get the cards unless they pay a second time.) - Also good vs. BUG Fish, RUG Delver, Noble Fish.
Additional Revokers and/or Needles, which are also useful in other matchups.


Plan B: (This qualifies as "Syl's terrible ideas")
Going U/G, bringing access to:
Nature's Claim
Trygon Predator
Kiora's Follower (3 part manadork, beater, and win-condition with Timevault (My own or one stolen by Thada Adel.)

Ruination doesn't untap your own lands when you pay for it with nonbasics.  The overlap with blood moon is the real problem, though you can still blow up their nonbasic "mountains" under a blood moon with this.

That and the fact that the deck you're generally happiest to use it against is Shops, and good luck pulling off the 4 mana 7 mana  required to play this against them.

2/2s don't die to Darkblast, though.

Dredge just isn't the deck I'm expecting to cringe and worry when it sees this card.

A three turn clock at 4 mana is surprisingly quite different from a 4 turn clock at 3 mana.  (I do understand one needs 3 more damage from elsewhere to shave a turn off the clock.)

Showed up as a vintagelly-challenged noob and people were really nice  Someone lent me a real, fake, vintage mono fish deck and I went 1-2 (well, I could have gone 2-1 maybe, but i made a really major mistake in one game3 and didn't have a mana up to flusterstorm a game-winning move.)

I'm probably going to continue showing up and borrow a few more times while I put together my own deck for these!