@Solomox: Protecting my creatures is a little harder with this build, but as long as I have destroy my opponent's hand enough already, it's a relatively small threat. My meta (just me and my friends basically), is some Stax, GAT, Fish, Ichorid and occasionally Flash (which is why my deck pretty much rolls to it).

Why yes I do.

Mana Base:
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Lotus Petal
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath

Creatures:
1 Akroma
1 Razia

Disruption:
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
4 Chalice of the Void

Draw/Tutor:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Crop Rotation
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
3 Night's Whisper

Board Control:
1 Smother

Other:
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Dark Ritual
4 Oath of Druids
1 Gaea's Blessing

Sideboard:
3 Smother
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Platinum Angel
1 Simic Sky Swallower
3 Root Maze
3 Oxidize

The reason I like this build more than regular Oath decks is the much more stable mana base, the ability to first turn Dark Ritual -> 2 or 3 broken cards, and the fact that I can run so much discard. Oath always aims to drop an Oath as soon as possible, so sitting around on counters has often slowed me down significantly with other builds; plus my lack of FoW has meant I don't need to play blue cards to fuel it.

The only card I'm really debating at the moment is the MD Smother, I'm tempted to replace it with another Thoughtseize or possibly Extirpate.

Anyway, that's the build! Make what you will of it.

netherspirit

I actually think the way for Oath to go at the moment is mono-black with a splash of green. My current list runs quite a bit of discard, a full set of Wastelands and Strip Mine, a few draw cards and quite a lot of tutors. The idea is to pull up Oath and Forbidden Orchard as soon as possible, whilst playing the aggro role rather than the control role; I can post my list if people want.

Just an idea! But I think it really is the way for Oath to go at the moment.

netherspirit

That's why I'm still convinced he'd be better in a GBW build. Then you have access to a ton of discard spells, tutors and Dark Confidant. How is something like turn one Bayou, Duress, turn two fetchland, Savannah, Duress/Cabal Therapy/Gaddock Teeg/Tarmogoyf bad?

Well I didn't want it to be monowhite as that may prove too strong, and the only other colors it could be are blue and green. It feels more green than blue to me as blue can't counter lands, so green seems the natural choice.

This is basically a version of Meddling Mage that hits lands instead; yeah I know the name sucks but it's all I could think of to fit the art I found.

Earthshaper
 
Creature - Elf Wizard
When Earthshaper comes into play, name a nonbasic land card.
The named card cannot be played.
Activated abilities of the named card cannot be played.
2/2

The second ability is added because the card would probably be too weak without it; this on a dual land won't help much if they've already fetched a copy, and in non eternal formats this probably won't see huge amounts of play anyway.

Any thoughts?

Current Wording:

Earthshaper
 
Creature - Elf Wizard
When Earthshaper comes into play, name a nonbasic land card.
The named card cannot be played.
Activated abilities of the named card cannot be played.
2/2

I see this working really well in a gWB deck using Duress, Cabal Therapy, tutors, Necropotence (would the BBB cost be too prohibitive though?) and Night's Whisper.

Strip Mine and Wastelands to hit their mana, early discard, Null Rod to stop their moxen, SB Root Maze for Combo decks, Seal of Primordium for artifact hate, Bob for draw, Aven Mindcensor because it's so awesome and Gaddock Teeg to screw up some of their cards.

Although I do like the idea of using Meddling Mage; could this become a 5C deck?

I've thought about adding Duress in Stax for a long time; it's just been a problem of finding space, though.

I really like the idea! It seems very good. As for the deck, though, I'd make the following changes:

-3 Smokestack
-1 Sphere of Resistance (I've always found 3 to be enough)
-1 Crop Rotation
+2 Tangle Wire (a lot better than Smokestack, it's faster and more abusable with Welder)
+3 Thirst for Knowledge

In all honesty I'd much rather run four Confidants and four Cutpurses, but that may slow the deck down more and take away the Sui element.

I think if you really want to keep Negator you should have three Confidants, two Cutpurses and two Negators.

I don't really like Juzam Djinn in here. Don't get me wrong, it's a strong card, but not fast enough for Vintage. I'd rather run something like Dark Confidant which gets me extra cards and is cheap to play.

Yes that would make Extract a problem, but how many decks actually play that now? Tog in the sideboard? I could always put an extra Tendrils in my sideboard so that I can side it in if I think Extract's coming.

My way around the Bridge issue is Cabal Therapy. It says "target player", not opponent, so I can always use one Therapy to check my oppnent's hand and one to put my Bridge into my graveyard. Yes I'd get two tokens less this way, but I would still have enough to pull the combo off.

I was thinking about adding Elvish Spirit Guide last night, how does that sound?

For the Therapies I'd probably cut the Mana Drains and a Mana Leak; come to think of it, Remand may be quite good as well in here.

I think Confidant would actually pose quite a threat; the moment you get him onto the board you're going to be drawing quite a lot of disruption, meaning you can totally wreck your opponent. I think Therapy and Confidant would go well together, Therapy is cheap disruption and Confidant will draw you into it quickly, so you could easily have a hand with Therapy, Duress and Mana Leak, for instance. Your opponent would have a tough time getting around a hand like that.

As for GAT and Storm, that's where your sideboard should shine. Have you got one at the moment?

By the way, I really do like this deck! It looks great fun to play.

How about if I cut one Bridge and one Tendrils? The additional Tendrils is pretty much overkill in here and I can still win easily enough with only two Bridges, though I'd probably have to have one Bridge in my sideboard so I can still use the Flame-Kin Zealot route effectively.

Nice looking deck.

I'm going to ask why you haven't got Yawgmoth's Will in there, though. It seems like an auto-include as it would let you gain quite a bit of card advantage and find Tinker.

Also, what happens if you draw Darksteel Colossus? You need a way to get it back into your library, which at the moment appears to be Brainstorm or Psychatog.

You said you want some early threats, so how about Dark Confidant? If you can add in four Dark Confidant, four Cabal Therapy and a Yawgmoth's Will you'd gain an extra draw engine (which would probably need you to cut Street Wraith), early threats, more disruption (which can also be used to shuffle Darksteel Colossus back into your library) and a way to overwhelm your opponent.

Good luck with the deck!

netherspirit

Yeah I found it took me a while to get used to playing the deck actually. The reliance on Hermit Druid is quite a weakness, and I spent a while learning when I should or shouldn't mulligan, but generally I'm pulling off turn three wins now and occasionally turn two.

I need more ways to get Hermit Druid I think; I'm considering either Worldly Tutor or Serum Powder. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks for the feedback by the way! And andrewpate, thanks for trying the deck on MWS I'm glad you like it!

netherspirit

Yeah but the card NEEDS to be revealed to prevent cheating, otherwise you could pay 2 life to get a Tendrils or something.

Having read the title you may be wondering which Golem I'm referring to; Karn? Bosh?

No, the answer is far less glamorous - Composite Golem.

This deck uses Composite Golem to generate 10 mana and then combo off insanely; sound fun? It is.

Here's the list:

Mana Base:
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath

Creatures:
4 Hermit Druid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Street Wraith
1 Composite Golem

Disruption:
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy

Card Draw/Tutor:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
3 Night's Whisper

Essential Cards:
2 Dread Return
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Recoup
3 Bridge from Below

The Win Condition:
2 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard:
4 Seal of Primordium
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Massacre
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Oxidize

The deck works by activating Hermit Druid and getting your entire library into your graveyard, bringing your Narcomoebas into play. From there you should be able to use Cabal Therapy on your opponent to protect your win or on yourself to put Composite Golem, Dread Return or Bridge from Below into your graveyard. Your Narcomoebas and zombie tokens should be enough to allow you to cast Dread Return on Composite Golem for its flashback cost, sacrifice Composite Golem (getting you three more tokens and a lot of mana) and repeat with Dread Return number two.

You then simply cast or flashback Recoup on Yawgmoth's Will, play a load of spells and cast Tendrils of Agony.

If you think your opponent may be sideboarding in answers to Tendrils in game two, you can sideboard out your Tendrils for Flame-Kin Zealot and one other card, allowing you to beat your opponent down instead.

The decks worst matchup is possibly Ichorid, so the sideboard is packed with ways to stop the Ichorid player; if you can get in a Leyline or Crypt they will find it very difficult to win. The Seals are in the sideboard to stop Null Rod, Pithing Needle, Root Maze and Leyline of the Void; Tormod's Crypt is still quite a threat, but I haven't faced it yet so I'm not worrying about it much.

Well that's it. Comments and criticism of the deck would be appreciated! Thanks.

netherspirit

Why do you have two Time Walks?

Anyway. I think Null Rod would be really good in here if you were to adjust your mana base a bit (ie cut the off color moxen); it would give you more speed over decks running full power.

Fastbond could be useful, giving you a chance to speed ahead and it may even mean you can use Gush.

Really good looking deck though!

Good Luck.

netherspirit

@Zeus: I totally agree with your changes there. Although rather than restrict Gush I'd actually restrict Dark Ritual and I'd unrestrict Mana Vault as well.

Why?

Dark Ritual fuels a lot of combo decks, take this away and our format will be able to slow down again.

I'd keep Gush because it's not causing much of a problem at the moment.

Vault should be unrestricted because it's strictly worse than Dark Ritual in Vintage and probably would help bring Stax back.

Signed because signed cards rock.

Played and signed Beta Time Walk or PSA 10 Unlimited Time Walk?

Ha, it'd be great to have Dream Halls unrestricted. I can definitely see it being broken, but the deck would have to be solely based around it, so I doubt it'd be very popular.

Hurkyl's Recall or Echoing Truth as they'll allow you to play around Chalice@1 much easier.

Leyline of the Void to help again Ichorid and Flash,
Massacre if you fear Fish decks,
Diabolic Edict if you fear Oath or Stax (both of which you should be able to outrace anyway),
and maybe some generally helpful cards such as Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt.

Just a few ideas there! I'm not much of a combo player really.

Welcome to TMD by the way.

netherspirit

Through four tutors and a lot of card drawers.

I can't believe Aven Mindcensor and Balance skipped my mind! What do you think would be good cards to cut for them?

I had considered moving Leyline to the Maindeck instead, but I can't find the room for it.

Thanks for the feedback so far!

netherspirit

I used to love playing UBW Bomberman decks, but I got really annoyed with playing the control role all the time; I wanted to get the win but play the aggro role instead.

I decided cutting blue would allow me to become faster and play the aggro role much more effectively.

Here's my current list:

Mana Base
7 SoLoMoxen
4 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland

Creatures
3 Auriok Salvagers
3 Dark Confidant

Disruption
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Extirpate

Draw/Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Night's Whisper
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Entomb

Board Control
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Edict

Utility
4 Necrogen Spellbomb

Acceleration
4 Dark Ritual

Win Condition
1 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Orim's Chant
3 Pithing Needle
2 Seal of Cleansing

I think the deck is really quite self explanatory. You use early disruption (Duress, Cabal Therapy, Extirpate, Necrogen Spellbomb) to destroy your opponent's hand, while using your draw and tutor cards to find the necessary cards.

A turn 4 or 5 win is the most common, although I've had quite a few turn 2 or 3 wins, and even the occasional turn 1 win!

My biggest weakness seems to be against Fish, as they have enough disruption to mess up my game plan and can put pressure on me quite quickly, maybe I should add Massacre to my sideboard?

I'm currently considering adding Balance because it is just so amazing, although it may be a problem as I usually have a lot of cards in hand. Originally, the list had Yawgmoth's Will, but it became a problem as it often didn't help me much and prevented me from winning that turn.

So, what do you guys think? Comments and criticism would be very much appreciated!

netherspirit

Anything that costs 5 mana, a ridiculous amount of life and relies on you having a creature in play better win you the game; and I can't see Hatred doing that.

The format is packed with counters, bounce and spot removal; you'll need to be near enough winning for this card to have any potential anyway, and at that stage there are better options.

How about trying Paradox Haze and Smokestack? Paradox Haze is brilliant with Tangle Wire, Smokestack and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale; and the more Paradox Hazes you get out the more brutal it will be. This should then allow you to stabilize a lock and find a win condition such as Sundering Titan, Karn or Platinum Angel.

Just a few ideas! Good luck.

netherspirit

How about replacing Extirpate with Engineered Explosives? I really can't see Extirpate being that useful as there's only one in the maindeck. It would probably be good in the sideboard, so that you have two, but I don't see much point in it in the maindeck.

I'd add Time Walk if I were you, it's great for getting in extra attacks with your Dimir Cutpurses or goblin tokens.

On the rare occasion that I have alcohol I usually just drink a bottle of Becks to wet my appetite a bit.

Red could definitely be interesting, but I still have an issue with speed then. Sphere of Resistance is definitely finding its way in.

I tried a UB list and it was even worse, the lock was easy to establish but the kill was much harder.

So, if I go BR, how about something like this?

3 Blood Moon
3 Moon Magus
4 Sinkhole
3 Null Rod
3 Mox Monkey
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Crucible
X Ritual Effects

And some others?

Right, I want to keep this as a Prison deck, so what if I made it UB so I could Flash my Rectors? I'd have plenty of card draw and tutors to find the cards and lots of disruption to back them up.

How does that sound? I'm willing to make huge adjustments to the deck, don't mistake me on that, but I just don't want to make a Combo deck. If this works I guess it could actually be a very fast Prison deck.

Anyway, thoughts on that? I'll post a new list later.