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1  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Angry Ghoul - a vintage version on: February 16, 2009, 05:39:56 am
@blue lotus
You might want to check out this link: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=33966.msg482300
Since the rules change you actually are able to use Tarmogoyf and Sutured Ghoul in a meaningful way.

DSC of course won't be in your grave at all, so you cannot feed the ghoul with him. However it buys you an additional turn after milling your library, for what it's worth.

@mantis
I see a problem here. Should your opponent see you playing an orchard in g1 (and he surely will when you reveal your milled library), he knows that you probably plan on some transitional oath sb thing. That would make your opponent guess if you transform or not. However he surely won't sb completely wrong.
2  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Angry Ghoul - a vintage version on: February 15, 2009, 07:07:42 am
I like your blue approach, mantis. What seems to be a hassle though are the md orchards. They directly interfere with your mainboard plan b, which is attacking with goyfs. I fear that the spirit tokens will buy your opponent more than enough time to do whatever they want. The goyfs seem to fulfill no other purpose than pumping your ghoul.
You could cut them altogether along with DSC and run maybe 2x Inkwell Leviathan + 3x good card.
That however would morph the deck even more into a one-trick pony. I don't know if this is the right thing to do.

Still though, I like it blue Wink This might be a way to go.
3  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Angry Ghoul - a vintage version on: February 15, 2009, 05:20:40 am
I don't want to say this is necessarily better than Ichorid or Oath but it certainly has potential.

Regarding Oath:
As boogie man said, Hermit Druid is a one card combo that wins the game.
Also Hermit Druid wins a turn faster than Oath (sans Time Walk or tidespout comboing).
Playing Oath means not playing creatures. This is a drawback. Should your opponent shut down your oath plan it gets very hard to win.

Regarding Ichorid:
Ichorid is even more so than Oath an all-in approach. With Angry Ghoul you do have a decent man plan as a backup strategy.

Nevertheless I do see this deck needs a way to draw cards and lacks disruption. After some more testing I cut back on some fancy cards and added cards that I feel just "do" more. Here's a revised list (changes are bold):

Angry Ghoul 1.1


3x Hermit Druid
3x Narcomoeba
1x Sutured Ghoul
1x Dread Return
1x Dragon Breath
1x Bridge from Below

3x Cabal Therapy
4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress

4x Aether Vial

2x Wild Mongrel
4x Dark Confidant
3x Tarmogoyf

4x Living Wish
1x Demonic Tutor

4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
1x Taiga
4x Bayou
1x Badlands

5x Mox
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal

Sideboard
1x Hermit Druid
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Ingot Chewer
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Bazaar of Baghdad

4x Leyline of the Void
3x Bitter Ordeal
2x Ancient Gudge

1x Forest

Some explanations:

Vexing Shusher seems unneeded with so many discard spells.
The basic Forest went to the side. It randomly cost me games. Now I only bring it in when I see wastes in g1.
Cabal Therapy as a 3-of means, when you combo you do not care about combo pieces in your grip. They certainly will go the grave.
Therefore I cut back Mongrels. They are still good as aggro beasts though.
Wild Cantor was just a neat little trick. Totally dead in the mid and late game. In come Dark Confidants.
4  Eternal Formats / Creative / Angry Ghoul - a vintage version on: February 14, 2009, 08:07:18 am
Hi there,

I was browsing old deck archetypes and tried to tune them into (semi-)viable vintage decks. I finally came to this:

Angry Ghoul

3x Hermit Druid
3x Narcomoeba
1x Sutured Ghoul
1x Dread Return
1x Dragon Breath
1x Bridge from Below

2x Cabal Therapy
4x Thoughtseize

4x Aether Vial
4x Vexing Shusher

4x Wild Cantor
4x Wild Mongrel
3x Tarmogoyf

4x Living Wish

1x Ancient Grudge

4x Wooded Foothills
3x Windswept Heath
1x Taiga
4x Bayou
1x Forest

5x Mox
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal

Sideboard
1x Hermit Druid
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Ingot Chewer
1x Yixlid Jailer
1x Bazaar of Baghdad

2x Cabal Therapy
4x Duress
4x Bitter Ordeal

The basic plan is to fetch your lonely Forest, resolve a Hermit Druid and activate it.
You mill your whole library and put the Narcomoebas into play.
Then you Cabal Therapy your opponent once or twice to get rid of counters. Bridge from Below replaces sacced creatures here.
Then Dread Return gets Sutured Ghoul into play, you put Dragon Breath on it, remove Tarmogoyfs, Mongrels etc. for the ghoul and swing for the win.

Some notes on specific cards:

Cabal Therapy - Use this one wisely. You might want to therapy yourself after activating the hermit to put combo pieces into your yard. It builds up gravestorm quite nicely after sideboarding (see below).

Bridge from Below - This is not always needed. I tested versions of this deck without it but found it to be too useful and synergistic to cut it. It shines when you can't get enough moebas into play while comboing due to having them in hand. With bridge you can combo with druid + 2 creatures and double therapy protection. Being able to double therapy becomes even more improtant when you are holding combo parts iin hand.
Since there is no turning back after activating the druid (empty library), you have to make sure that you win now.

Aether Vial - This card is core to the deck. Short of land - mox - hermit one of the best plays you usually make on turn one is land - vial. It helps to get your druid (and other critters) past counters and accelerates nicely with wild cantor.
Furthermore it provides protection vs Wasteland, which can get painful in a deck without basics.

Wild Cantor - Again this one protects you from wastes. It is a nice turn one drop vs spheres.dec and enables a 2nd turn Thoughtseize - Hermit Druid play. Builds up gravestorm g2 and 3 vs storm.dec (see below).

Wild Mongrel - This one gets combo pieces in the yard where they belong. Additionally it teams up along with goyfs and shushers to go into the red zone, when comboing seems impossible.

Tarmogoyf - Goyfs and mongrels constitute the heart of your plan b - going aggro.
It should be noted that Tarmogoyf is checking its p/t even in the graveyard. So it is a useful creature for the ghoul to devour (even if the printed cardtext on Sutured Ghoul says otherwise).

Ancient Grudge - It seems to be random as a 1-of. However it tends to be randomly good (guess this is the defintion of randomness Wink ) I guess this is a wild card slot. I'm leaning to replacing it with the 4th Windswept Heath.

Basic Forest - I understand that this can randomly wreck your plans when comboing. Most of the time however you fetch before comboing, so there is no real drawback.
Having a solid turn one wasteland-proof basic forest and a permanent mana source to activate your druid is quite strong.

Cards that I did not include:

Lion's Eye Diamond - Living Wish + Diamond is occasionally nice. Furthermore it discards combo pieces. I fount it dead too often. So it got cut.

Crimson Wisps - I wanted a way to haste my Hermit Druids. However I realized this was win more. Nevertheless Crimson Wisps is not bad in the deck since it almost always at least cycles itself.

Cephalid Illusionist + Lightning Greaves + Shuko (or en-Kors) - At first I tinkered with a "Cephalid Breakfast/Angry Ghoul"-hybrid list but fount it too clunky. It was quite fun to play actually and very fast but also very inconsistent.

Summoner's Pact - I really wish to find a way that makes this one viable as a core card to fetch Hermit Druid. I cannot find a way, maybe somebody else can.


Let's explain the sideboard choices:

I think the wish targets are self-explanatory. A brief note on Yixlid Jailer. It's there to help against Ichorid but also completely shuts off your combo since you have no means to get rid of it. Maybe this should be replaced with Faerie Macabre.
Duress, therapies and Bitter Ordeal come in against storm combo and oath or whenever you fear massive graveyard hate.
I feel that storm is the worst matchup for this Angry Ghoul pile. You can occasionally race them game 1 (a.k.a. the "Land-Mox-Druid-Hand") but you usually don't. Post-board your plan is to resolve Bitter Ordeal asap. Most of the time your gravestorm should range between 1 and 3 between fetches, therapies and cantors.

Well, there are some other things that I could say about the deck but i think this is already long enough and can be discussed.
I would appreciate any advice how I can fit Summoner's Pact into this deck and maybe a viable draw engine. For example should Dark Confidant replace some Mongrels? Let me hear!

thx for reading
5  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Oath of ghouls reformed on: January 18, 2009, 10:27:22 am
Regarding Faerie Macabre:

I too feel this does a lot of things that you want to be done. As Guli stated already.
However it is plain dead in some matchups and inferior in others, which are for example Oath, shops, fish and aggrovariants.
Therefore I moved it to the side.

I do see the merits in Guli's mana denial strategy, however I found myself not being able to really stop my opponents from casting their relevant spells. That is mostly because of the lack of a serious clock (e.g. dreadnoughts).

It might be right to go the dreadnought route. But everytime I do that, I find myself cutting Oath of Gouls from the list. Maybe it is not yet the time for the black Oath and we have to keep waiting for another creature to appear that will push Oath of Ghouls over the edge of playability.

I'll continue testing for a while and see where it will lead me.

To be continued...
6  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Oath of ghouls reformed on: January 16, 2009, 02:59:57 pm
My observations are that Street Wraith is a clear must have. There are 2 reasons why:

1. It does combo with Oath of Ghouls (while not being a great combo, it is a welcome synergy which becomes huge during the late game)
2. It allows to play with less mana

I feel the second point here is the more important one. Guli already noted, there is a problem with space.
Indeed i found it to be the major problem. You really need to get through your deck as fast as possible to
find your relevant hate and get going. With earlier versions of the deck I was often mana flooded, or fizzled when a key spell (e.g. oath, confidant) was countered. So I figured that threat density had to be raised.

Another card came to my mind, that would allow me to cut back on mana - Sage of Epityr.
Furthermore he combos nicely with Street Wraith and Oath of Ghouls.

I played a UB version several times on MWS and got beaten over and over again by aggro decks (RG Beatz, Goblins etc.)
Then I switched to white. Jotun Grunt, StP and Children of Korlis are imo key to these matchups.

Here's my current list.

Creatures [20]
4x Dark Confidant
4x Children of Korlis
4x Sage of Epityr
4x Street Wraith
4x Jotun Grunt

Disruption [11]
4x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Null Rod

Removal [3]
3x Swords to Plowshares

Stuff [3]
1x Ancestral
1x Time Walk
1x Demonic Tutor

Combo [4]
4x Oath of Ghouls

Mana [19]
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Black Lotus

4x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x Scrubland
2x Underground Sea
1x Tundra
1x Swamp

1x Strip Mine
2x Wasteland

Sideboard [15]
4x Faerie Macabre
4x Yixlid Jailer
1x Swords to Plowshares
3x Ronom Unicorn
3x Kataki, War's Wage
7  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Hidden treasures for Vintage (deck ideas, good cards, combos)? on: February 09, 2008, 07:47:58 am
@Everrid1234
Agreed. Just trying to dig up treasures here.
When playing with recruiter you have to minimize its weaknesses, e.g. searching for a guy and playing it the same turn. Wires or spheres may provide you with the needed extra time, too.
The time he shines is during topdecking wars. Playing recruiter means sacrificing some explosiveness during the early turns in favor of added flexibility later on. One has to decide for himself  which way to go, i guess.

I have a list thrown together that i like. You might want to try it out for yourself.

Mana (27)
2x Ancient Tomb
4x Mishra's Workshop
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
6x Mountain
1x Tolarian Academy
5x Moxen
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
  Creatures (18)
  4x Goblin Welder
  4x Metalworker
  4x Imperial Recruiter
  2x Solemn Simulacrum
  1x Duplicant
  1x Triskelion
  1x Arcbound Ravager
  1x Magus of the Moon
  Other (15)
  4x Tangle Wire
  4x Chalice of the Void
  4x Thorn of Amethyst
  1x Trinisphere

  2x Sword of Fire and Ice
  Sideboard (15)
  1x Duplicant
  1x Silent Arbiter
  1x Triskelion
  3x Viashino Heretic
  3x Tormod's Crypt
  3x Red Elemental Blast
  3x Sphere of Resistance
8  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Hidden treasures for Vintage (deck ideas, good cards, combos)? on: February 08, 2008, 03:40:10 pm
@Wagner
Recruiter is a 3 mana tutor, right. In addition he is a creature, don't underrate this fact. He can be equipped, he can go in the way of a lackey or chumpblock dryads etc.
He is a permanent and can be sacked for stack or tapped for wire. He is red, which is imo the better color for shopbuilds right now. I would rate him far higher than fabricate.
One thing i really like is his ability to find heretics in the mirror or versus Stax. Dropping one of these viashino guys early is absolutely crucial.
9  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Hidden treasures for Vintage (deck ideas, good cards, combos)? on: February 08, 2008, 01:24:40 pm
I found this guy in an aluren deck:



After some testing i realized that aluren just doesnt make it in t1.
I then tried him in a workshop-aggro shell to find welder, metalworker, duplicant, triskelion, ravager, magus of the moon and solemn simulacrum. In the sideboard i had viashino heretic and silent arbiter which could be found by the recruiter.
So far the deck works just fine.
10  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: RGb - Gravebeatz on: January 18, 2008, 05:42:44 am
You made some good points. Thank you for that.
I cut Oath of Ghouls back to 3 copies and added Vampiric Tutor in the open Slot.
Sudden Shock and Seal of Fire seemed not to do that much, so i replaced them with Cabal Therapies.
After some testing its obvious that Therapy belongs in this deck.
To accomodate the (now) heavy black splash I added another fetch and a basic swamp.
I arranged the list in the first post and bolded the changes.

To address some arguments:

@TopSecret: Shriekmaw seems fine and I will try him out. I think he might end up in the sb.
@matthewCURBSTOMP: Slinger seems better than Fire Imp mainly because it can go to the dome.
@everrid1234: Skullclamp fills a lot of roles in this deck and is much more versatile than bob. It gets your guys in the yard so they can get back via Oath. It helps digging for answers if you need to find one "now". The CA it generates with Oath is much better than the extra card from a single Confidant.
@madmanmike25: Witness is not that easy to cast, right. However, I do run Vials which help a lot. I really like to see 1 Witness per game and 3 seems to be the right number to achieve that.

I really want more disruption in this deck but do not know what to cut. Maybe i should go down on creatures in general and add 4x Duress/Thoughtseize to the main?
11  Eternal Formats / Creative / RGb - Gravebeatz on: January 15, 2008, 11:42:32 am
Hello there,

I've been tinkering with the RG-Beatz build that took 1st place at SCG Chicago in 2007. I swapped some cards in and out and finally came to the idea of adding black for Oath of Ghouls. After some testing with friends and on MWS I found the deck quite promising. It lost a bit of its speed and burn options. However, the addition of Oath of Ghouls got the deck some nice lategame options. Well, here's the list:

Mana [20]

2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Taiga   
1x Bayou
1x Swamp
1x Forest
3x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Lotus Petal
1x Black Lotus

Creaures [24]

3x Eternal Witness
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Stingscourger
3x Tin Street Hooligan
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Street Wraith
4x Tarmogoyf

Spells [16]

2x Sudden Shock
2x Seal of Fire

4x Cabal Therapy

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
3x Oath of Ghouls

3x Skullclamp
4x AEther Vial

Sideboard [15]

4x Duress
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Ingot Chewer
2x Fire Imp
2x Ghitu Slinger
2x Viridian Zealot
3x Tormod's Crypt


There are a number of obvious synergies here. Oath of Ghouls combos with the "cip"-abilities of Eternal Witness, Stingscourger and Tin-Street Hooligan. Stingscourger does you the favor of getting in the yard again on its own and thus creating a bouncing machine. Skullclamp and Mogg Fanatic help you getting other critters in the grave. Street Wraith and Oath is netting you an additional card per turn and so on. After sideboarding you get Viridian Zealot, Fire Imp and Ingot Chewer that can come back again and again.

However, this deck does not "need" the graveyard to execute its game plan. You can still be fine by just dropping creatures and attacking. The loss of burn versus other aggro decks seems not overly relevant. You can gain card and board advantage via Oath. What hurts is that your winning turn is now delayed quite a bit. Then again, there is a better plan against a tinkered DSC because of recurring stingscourgers and an overall improved lategame.

The testing so far was promising. But the deck is quite new, so there might be some cards that should be included and some that do not belong in this list. Share your thoughts and give this deck a try. Its quite fun to play, because there are so many synergies and it is very stable in performing.

Any ideas?
12  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Rector Flash on: May 09, 2007, 08:47:19 pm
Quote
First, flash only needs 2 mana for the combo (similar to Oath)
Quote
The only difference is that Hulk-Rector can't hardcast rector (making therapy useless) and replaces those slots with more cards to find hulk.  This inherently speeds up the deck, but also makes it more vulnerable since pact is a scarry card to not resolve.

Oath of Druids is much safer then Pact... Oath is an engine in itself since it finds Rector and Theapy most of the time. Playing Oath makes it possible to minimize risk (not drawing Rector), while it maximizes the probability to combo out (as Pact does, but a turn slower). In addition to that a build with Oath opens up the opportunity to hardcast rector.
13  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Rector Flash on: May 08, 2007, 02:41:10 pm
To me it seems choosing one deck over the other is deciding between versatility (Rector-Therapy builds) and explosiveness (Hulk-Summoning Pact builds). I've tinkered with the more traditional approach of Rector builds but wasn't finding Rector or Therapy in time. I thought about replacing Summoner's Pact with Oath of Druids, which would help me find Academy Rector. My testing so far (only goldfishing) was going quite well. Maybe this could be a solution for the versatility/explosiveness trade off problem. Here's a list without sideboard.

Combo (16)

4x Academy Rector
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Flash
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Illusions of Grandeur
1x Donate
1x Krosan Reclamation

Tutoring (15)

4x Oath of Druids
4x Merchant Scroll
4x Brainstorm
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal

Disruption (5) (other than Cabal Therapy)

4x Force of Will
1x Misdirection

Misc (4)

1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Chain of Vapor

Mana (20)

5x Moxen
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
1x Chrome Mox

4x Forbidden Orchard
3x Polluted Delta
2x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
1x Island

I'm using Illusions/Donate so I can cut Rituals from the mb. I found them quite underwhelming since there was not enough card drawing to go for the traditional Tendrils kill. Most of the time it goes down to flashing in a second Rector that finds Illusions. From there it's nearly impossible to fail.
The only (minor) problem I faced so far was being a little light on mana sometimes.
This build makes it possible to run a transformational sideboard. Swinging with angels in game 2/3 may be a decent way to fight graveyard hate. I'm not sure if this is the way to go but the performance of this build was quite promising to me so far.

Just some thoughts on this subject...
14  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Oath of Druids Combo on: December 07, 2006, 11:13:35 am
I have tinkered with Oath-Combo for quite a while. I think my build is, as far as I can tell, a little bit like the deck andrewpate plays. Here is my list:

Lands [12]
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Forbidden Orchard
4x City of Brass
3x Gemstone Mine

Jewelry [11]
1x Chrome Mox
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Black Lotus
5x Moxen

Acceleration [4]
4x Dark Ritual

Tutoring [8]
1x Crop Rotation
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Burning Wish
3x Impulse

Disruption [6]
4x Force of Will
2x Cabal Therapy

Combo [9]
4x Oath of Druids
1x Krosan Reclamation
2x Eternal Witness
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Tendrils of Agony

Draw 7s [5]
1x Timetwister
1x Windfall
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Tinker
1x Memory Jar

Broken Stuff [4]
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Necropotence
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk

Utility [1]
1x Chain of Vapor

Sideboard [15]
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Balance
1x Imperial Seal
1x Rebuild
1x Empty the Warrens
2x Angel (Akroma + Razia)
2x Sacred Ground
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Duress
2x Pyroclasm

I found that having 2x Witness was necessary. It allows double therapy from the yard. You don't have to cast Krosan Reclamation which can be a strain on your mana in case you're holding a witness in your initial seven.
I do not run Brainstorm, which seems quite sketchy at first glance... However I found them to be quite useless without fetchlands. I think Impulse does a better job here.
Fish really is a tough matchup. 2x Sacred Ground, 2x Pyroclasm and Balance form the board help a little...
15  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: GWS Oath revisited on: July 26, 2006, 06:47:19 am
Btw, can you use research//development on creatures that were removed from the game by stps or other removal? lets say both angels were removed using stps, and then to want to use Research to fetch the 2 angels, and the 2 SSS in the sideboard. is this allowed?

Yes, this works. Cards outside the game include every card in your sideboard plus every card you own that was removed from the game (Even cards removed from the game temporarily by stuff like Necropotence or Memory Jar are eligible options). Nevertheless I do think that Research/Development is not a good card, although I must confess I haven't tested it. It just doesn't look good on paper.

Question 2, how many times can you use oath during your turn? My opponent was using it more than once; He didnt find a creature, Geas Blessing triggers, deck shuffles, and then he used it again. Is this allowed? I didnt think it was, since oath has an eretta.

This depends on how many Oaths are in play (of course counting yours plus your opponents' Oaths). You can use one Oath just one time. Gaea's Blessing triggers and shuffles your grave into your library - and that's it. Also note that Oath checks for its trigger condition (your opponent having at least one more critter than you have) at the beginning of your upkeep AND upon resolution. So having oathed out an Angel that evens out the creature score (assuming your opponent has one spirit token) renders a second oath activation (from a second Oath of Druids) useless - it will not trigger.

Plus what Harlequin said.
16  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: GWS Oath revisited on: July 25, 2006, 11:16:43 am
Goblins?  In Type 1? 

Seriously, decks like Goblins should be, like, your bestest matchup in the whole wide world.  For God's sake, Oath is one of the biggest reasons that fast aggro isn't part of Type 1!  Razia rocks hardcore against goblins, because you can block a Lackey and zap a Piledriver each time that they attack.

I don't know if you tested or played against FCG extensively. I did. Should you be unable to locate and cast an Oath of Druids until turn 3, you have pretty much lost the game. I agree, that when you drop an Oath early, the game is yours - most of the time. If you fail to drop Oath early and they start with Goblin Lackey (especially if they won the die roll), you will lose. I do agree however that "Akroma/Razia" is the best creature configuration to run in the mainboard. Nishoba and DSC are just plain bad (for the stated reasons).
To improve the matchup against goblins you have to increase the number of your bombs versus aggro. In game 1 you have 4x Oath. Propaganda will help in games 2 and 3. If you fear REB (which FCG usually doesn't bring in against Oath) run Ghostly Prison instead. Remember also that you might lose randomly to FCG because they manage to draw into a "hand that wins" and combo you out. A starting hand with Oath against FCG should include at least an easy way to get an Oath plus counter backup. Think about mulling aggressively towards Oath.
17  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: GWS Oath revisited on: July 22, 2006, 11:29:42 am
What cards do you side OUT against Fish and EBA?

Looking at your sideboard i think you would definitely want to bring in the following:

2x Engineered Explosives
2x SSS
and maybe:
2x Propaganda
1x Echoing Truth
1x Ancient Hydra

The EE and SSS are quite obvious. Side out your Angels and Sensei's Divining Tops. Propaganda should stay in the side, except you encounter some very aggressive builds of Fish or EBA. I would then replace two Impulses with Propagandas. Echoing Truth provides another solution against annoying Meddling Mages... you might want to cut Crop Rotation for it, since Fish and EBA pack a lot of counters. Personally I'm not a fan of Ancient Hydra because it delays your kill even further. Should you decide to bring it in, cut one Duress or the Regrowth.

Regarding the "Repeal or Rushing River question"... If Meddling Mages and DSC are of much concern to you it's probably better to run Rushing River.

Your mainboard looks quite good to me. However I think you should try out Chrome Mox. I found it to be a very powerful card in partially powered Oath builds.
18  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: GWS Oath revisited on: July 20, 2006, 04:15:11 am
I only have two artifacts, and two of them are Black Lotus and Lotus Petal.

I could bring in Chalice, but in the matchups where I want Tinker, Chalice is often useless.

Think about Chrome Mox and Mana Crypt. Furthermore it seems that you run Sensei's Divining Top and Engineered Explosives. That makes:

1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Chrome Mox
1x Mana Crypt
2x SDT or EE

That should be enough.
19  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: GWS Oath revisited on: July 19, 2006, 05:23:04 pm
I got two questions:

1) Which maindeck bounce spell is better: Chain of Vapor, Echoing Truth or Rushing River?

2) Balance or EE maindeck? ...

to 1) I'm not sure about this, but I feel that Rushing River is the preferable choice here. In my testing, casting Chain of Vapor was not that desirable once I got an Oath on the table and even less good when I had some Angels swinging. Echoing Truth is fine but I had some problems with CotV set at 2 (which is a major problem for an Oath player)

to 2) In a meta full of aggro, fish and their friends i would say that balance might be stronger. In a more diversified meta I'd definitely stick with the Explosives. Should you consider to put Tinker/DSC in the side (see below) you have to keep track of your artifact count in the mainboard (since you do not play a full allotment of moxen). EE is a nice Tinker target.

Regarding the sideboard:

I feel CotV is the stronger card. It is just very flexible and powerful if played correctly. Hoping to draw enough Extracts to shut off all the win conditions in Combo doesn't seem to be a good idea (depending on the list, of course).
In my opinion you should add Tinker/DSC to the side. This is vital to dodge Oath hate (in form of Meddling Mage, CotV etc.), besides being a potent tool in the mirror.
20  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: GWS Oath revisited on: July 19, 2006, 12:31:37 pm
Quote
@Regrowth: Has anyone tested this? I see its power, but is it worthy of a maindeck slot?

Over here in Germany "RegrOath", as it is called,  has scored some strong results. Here are some links:

http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=383 (first place)
http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=333 (first place)

Another Oath list featuring Regrowth has placed 8th at a 81 person tournament in France:

http://www.solomoxen.com/?page=7&id=60

I admit that these decks are not like GWS Oath, but I think it underlines the fact that Regrowth is a very good card in Oath and therefore worth considering.
21  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: GWS Oath revisited on: July 17, 2006, 01:41:40 pm
Hi there,
This is my first post, but I do have some experience with various Oath builds. Some things that I think will improve the deck:

- Simic Sky Swallower should go back to the sideboard. You really need the speed in game one. It's quite possible to create a good Oath list with 2 SSS in the mainboard. However, this deck would look completely different and play much more like control.

- I have never been a supporter of Sensei's Divining Top in Oath. If your meta consists almost exclusively of Fish, Aggro and EBA you don't want to play with dead cards game one because of Null Rod.

- I would rather replace the Tops with Engineered Explosives, as was stated before, since they are very versatile and may save you from an army of spirit tokens, besides being randomly good against aggro.dec.

- If you are having that big problems with allocating an Oath in time, you might want to consider Lim Dul's Vault, too.

- Think about adding a 5th fetchland. You always want to maximize the chance of shuffling your critters away with Brainstorm.

- Moat might be too much a strain on your mana. In my opinion Propaganda would be much more elegant choice, since it pitches to FoW. You should however be prepared for enchantment removal in games 2 and 3. You may even think about adding Propaganda to the mainboard. This card really annoys any aggro deck.

- Chrome Mox is a card that is quite good in unpowered Oath builds. You really want that 1st-turn Oath.

- Chalice of the Void should definitely belong in this deck. But since your meta is mostly aggro, I would put them in the side.

- Another quality card in Oath decks is Regrowth. It can get back a countered Oath or retrieve a Time Walk in the yard right after you oathed.

Just some thoughts.. I hope this will help you.
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