@Duncan: The list looks pretty solid. My intention was to build a different deck, but this looks quite good, too.

Classic MUC with Trinket Mages in Ophidian Slot. First of all I think that Mana Leak and Thirst for Knowledge should be 4-offs.

You can replace Striplands and Library with B2B and more Basics because if you are so much Mono-U these are the best Nonbasic-Hosers.

If you splash a Color (No B2B then) I would suggest R for Fire/ Ice. It helps vs. Aggro decks and Goblin Welder. You can replace the E.Ex. and Needles because they are really dead in many matchups. It will also add Clasms to your SB.

___________________


But then you play Zephyr Spirit for 5U and I play Ancestral Recall, Mana Crypt, Tinker for Colossus. I spent net 2 Mana for a 11/11 Beater and you spent 6 Mana for a horrbible card with Defender. And your childhood was obviously bad, too. I can say that from your posts on this forum.

i never said anyone except flaming cloud is flaming my thread and that was when he said that my thread should get locked and mod followed, but how can you know??? you'd have to read my post for that and i really dont want anyone to do this, i am writing all this because i like writing, i dont expect anything from this

i really dont care, lock this, ban me for not playing brainstorm, whatever

dont forget to send me emails with "play brainstorm" after banning me, because i didnt hear that suggestion often enough the last 5 or so days

but dont dare testing the deck before writing a comment or testing cards from new editions, how can a spell that hardcounters oath for U or a bounce spell with card parity be good

First of all: In other Forums Mods are more careful if members called Flaming Cloud are flaming a thread. I never said I wanted a new thread because I didnt like the answers. That is basically a lie and the mod just accepted it. I wanted a new thread because I made a bad opening post, said it and apologized for it. Thats a big diefference.


Anyway. I edited the opening post and changed the name to avoid more confusion.



Here is what I wrote in the other thread:

---

I will try again to explain what I want the deck to do. It is supposed to generate much Mana, create fast Card Advantage and overwhelm the opponent. It shall spit out permanents fast and keep on drawing cards. While doing this it shall counter some of the opponent's key spells and then win with its superior Mana and a big threat or beat the exhausted opponent with 1 or 2 Trinket Mages.

First of all I want no further Brainstorm / Mana Drain discussions. As an example for other blue decks that are Monoblue and don't use the Brainstorm/ Fetchland engine here are the Top 3 from an online tourney:

http://www.magic-league.com/deck/22584/legacy_t15.html

Of course Sea Drakes and Serendib Efreets are not that impressive in Vintage as in Legacy, so they are replaced with other threats. But the baisc principle is the same: With all the artifact mana Brainstorm is just an inferior choice and Mana Drain, like all UU spells is not supported by the mana base. The last thread was really frustrating. I hope I made you understand why I don't want a Brainstorm discussion here.

I would much rather like to discuss the exact amount of Mana needed and the kill engine.

The choices so far:

4 Force of Will: Yes

4 Mana Leak: It can counter really often on Turn 1 and is still quite good in the later game

4 Thirst for Knowledge: Creates card advantage and improves card quality

3 Compulsive Research: same as TfK, only slightly worse.

3 Trinket Mage: They are really good. In most games you fetch for Blue Mox to accelerate or Senseis Divining Top to find spells. Other options are Black Lotus to hardcast a massive threat, Seat of the Synod to discard to CR or TfK and some of the 1-ofs. I am not sure if I shall go up to 4.

3 Repeal: Really great card. Much better as Chain of Vapor. You can bounce your opponent's threats and then counter them. It saves Trinket Mages from Removal or with damage on stack, then you draw a card and use them again. It is great with Mana Vault and Mana Crypt. I can play Mana Crypt because I have already 3 Repeal in the deck.

1 Cursed Scroll: absolutely nessecary to keep Welders, Confidants, Cutpurses and Negators back. Better than E. Ex. at this. E.Ex. seems like a good choice, too, but you cant play everything.

1 Aether Spellbomb: Colossus or Akroma. It also saves your fatties from StoP and lets you use Trinket Mage again. It can cycle, too.

1 Senseis Divining Top: Really great card. I fetch for it really often with Trinket Mage and it wins games.

1 Trisk, 1 Titan, 1 Colosssus: Titan and Colossus are in without a doubt. They are not only Tinker targets, you can hardcast them pretty often, even the colossus. 11 Mana is realistic with Mana Vault or Monolith plus a fetched Lotus. Or with Academy.  But I am really not sure about the finishers.

Wasteland / Strip Mine: Nessecary against stupid Bazaars, acdemys and Workshops. Helps Brainstorm get better and improves your mana advantage.

Ancient Tomb: Because of the nessecary inclusion of Strip effects you can play only 3.

Grim Monolith, Mana Vault: They help hardcasting a big threat.

Tinker, fast Mana, Ancestral, Time Walk, Tolarian Academy: yes


SB Choices:


Tormod's Crypt: Maybe I should add one to the MD. Of course they are Trinket Mage targets, too.

Chalice: You can side it in on the play or together with Hurkly's Recall against Staxx.

Stifle: Storm Combo

Hydroblast: Welder and Red Blasts.

Spell Snare: Confidant and Oath


Decklist:

// Lands
    8  Island
    4  Seat of the Synod
    1  Tolarian Academy
    3  Ancient Tomb
    3  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine

// Creatures
    1  Darksteel Colossus
    1  Sundering Titan
    3  Trinket Mage
    1  Triskelion

// Spells
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Force of Will
    1  Time Walk
    1  Ancestral Recall
    4  Mana Leak
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    1  Tinker
    3  Compulsive Research
    3  Repeal
    1  Grim Monolith
    1  Sensei's Divining Top
    1  AEther Spellbomb
    1  Cursed Scroll
    1  Mana Crypt

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1  Chalice of the Void
SB: 3  Hydroblast
SB: 3  Stifle
SB: 3  Hurkly's Recall
SB: 3 Spell Snare


My reply to some answers from the other thread:

Mana Drain: it is not included because I need Turn 1 counters. Mana Drain can only do this with a Mox Sapphire/ Island draw. Vs. Staxx or Oath the game can be over before I haver UU.

Repeal vs. Chain of Vapor: Of course Chain is better vs. Tinker/Colossus but in nearly every other situation Repeal is better. Repeal as a cantrip is just a part of the Card Draw engine. You could never run 3 Chain of Vapor because you die from Card disadvantage.
The deck is build around having more Mana than your opponent, so it works as a Tempo card. The important thing is the card you draw, so you can just cycle with a Mox.

Spell Snare: It is quite encouraging to get some at least neutral feedback... I can't understand why this card does not see more play since it counters Dark Confidant, Oath of Druids and Mana Drain. So, yes, my experiences with it were quite good. I countered Confidant, Oath, Drain, Time Walk and Hymns with it.

I made this new topic because the opening post of the last thread was too bad. It was my mistake, sorry for that. A Mod can delete the last thread. I think neither me nor anyone else will miss it.

I will try again to explain what I want the deck to do. It is supposed to generate much Mana, create fast Card Advantage and overwhelm the opponent. It shall spit out permanents fast and keep on drawing cards. While doing this it shall counter some of the opponent's key spells and then win with its superior Mana and a big threat or beat the exhausted opponent with 1 or 2 Trinket Mages.

First of all I want no further Brainstorm / Mana Drain discussions. As an example for other blue decks that are Monoblue and don't use the Brainstorm/ Fetchland engine here are the Top 3 from an online tourney: http://www.magic-league.com/deck/22584/legacy_t15.html

Of course Sea Drakes and Serendib Efreets are not that impressive in Vintage as in Legacy, so they are replaced with other threats. But the baisc principle is the same: With all the artifact mana Brainstorm is just an inferior choice and Mana Drain, like all UU spells is not supported by the mana base. The last thread was really frustrating. I hope I made you understand why I don't want a Brainstorm discussion here.

I would much rather like to discuss the exact amount of Mana needed and the kill engine.

The choices so far:

4 Force of Will: Yes

4 Mana Leak: It can counter really often on Turn 1 and is still quite good in the later game

4 Thirst for Knowledge: Creates card advantage and improves card quality

3 Compulsive Research: same as TfK, only slightly worse.

3 Trinket Mage: They are really good. In most games you fetch for Blue Mox to accelerate or Senseis Divining Top to find spells. Other options are Black Lotus to hardcast a massive threat, Seat of the Synod to discard to CR or TfK and some of the 1-ofs. I am not sure if I shall go up to 4.

3 Repeal: Really great card. Much better as Chain of Vapor. You can bounce your opponent's threats and then counter them. It saves Trinket Mages from Removal or with damage on stack, then you draw a card and use them again. It is great with Mana Vault and Mana Crypt. I can play Mana Crypt because I have already 3 Repeal in the deck.

1 Cursed Scroll: absolutely nessecary to keep Welders, Confidants, Cutpurses and Negators back. Better than E. Ex. at this. E.Ex. seems like a good choice, too, but you cant play everything.

1 Aether Spellbomb: Colossus or Akroma. It also saves your fatties from StoP and lets you use Trinket Mage again. It can cycle, too.

1 Senseis Divining Top: Really great card. I fetch for it really often with Trinket Mage and it wins games.

1 Trisk, 1 Titan, 1 Colosssus: Titan and Colossus are in without a doubt. They are not only Tinker targets, you can hardcast them pretty often, even the colossus. 11 Mana is realistic with Mana Vault or Monolith plus a fetched Lotus. Or with Academy.  But I am really not sure about the finishers.

Wasteland / Strip Mine: Nessecary against stupid Bazaars, acdemys and Workshops. Helps Brainstorm get better and improves your mana advantage.

Ancient Tomb: Because of the nessecary inclusion of Strip effects you can play only 3.

Grim Monolith, Mana Vault: They help hardcasting a big threat.

Tinker, fast Mana, Ancestral, Time Walk, Tolarian Academy: yes


SB Choices:


Tormod's Crypt: Maybe I should add one to the MD. Of course they are Trinket Mage targets, too.

Chalice: You can side it in on the play or together with Hurkly's Recall against Staxx.

Stifle: Storm Combo

Hydroblast: Welder and Red Blasts.

Spell Snare: Confidant and Oath


Decklist:

// Lands
    8  Island
    4  Seat of the Synod
    1  Tolarian Academy
    3  Ancient Tomb
    3  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine

// Creatures
    1  Darksteel Colossus
    1  Sundering Titan
    3  Trinket Mage
    1  Triskelion

// Spells
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Force of Will
    1  Time Walk
    1  Ancestral Recall
    4  Mana Leak
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    1  Tinker
    3  Compulsive Research
    3  Repeal
    1  Grim Monolith
    1  Sensei's Divining Top
    1  AEther Spellbomb
    1  Cursed Scroll
    1  Mana Crypt

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1  Chalice of the Void
SB: 3  Hydroblast
SB: 3  Stifle
SB: 3  Hurkly's Recall
SB: 3 Spell Snare

deleted, double post

I didn't expect that I needed to explain this: It is just the principle of card adavantage. If you have a land in hand, then draw 3 cards (Land, Mox, Spell) with Compulsive Research and discard the worse land, you have made 1 card advantage and improved your Card Quality.

But you still have to have the land you discarded in your deck because you need lands to play Compulsive Research and you cannot know when you will draw them.


Brainstorm improves Card Quality while Research is Card Advantage. You don't run Brainstorm because the Manabase supports not that much blue. Please just try it out.

I am only referring to the 2nd decklist because the 1st list in the opening post failed in doing what I tried to build.

____

You seem to have a fixed decklist in your head and then give arguments for changing each difference between them. Some of these arguments are really good, but some are just wrong. The Discard of Thirst for Knowledge/ Research is NO card disadvantage, it is 1 card advantage and it improves your card quality.

I will try to explain my point on Brainstorm again:
1. The deck plays very few blue sources and it should spend nearly each turn each single blue Mana. Therefore you have to take as much advantage of them as possible.
2. You don't want to shuffle cards back in. You want to play Mana, play another Drawspell, play the Mana you found etc. Brainstorm works not well enough in this concept.

I would like to discuss about the other points, Personal Tutor seems like a good idea, and what finishers exactly I shoul use because I am not really thinking that the list is optimal.

But first I would like to discuss if I am right about my point with Brainstorm and I hope that I am able to convince you. Please give it a chance and don't give me answers like "Blue decks run 4 Brainstorms" or "use Mana Drain because you play Monoblue".

This is more important, so that you understand what I want from the deck and how I want it to work. Then you can help me to find an optimal decklist with more Repeal and better Finishers.

I will try out Explosives, but I really like the damage the Srcoll can do.

I feared that this discussion would come, and even though I hate to repeat myself:  Brainstorm is bad in this deck. You will see this after 1 or 2 Golfishes.

Number of Tinker targets: With all the cheap Mana and carddraw in the deck you can come easily to 6-11 Mana so that you can hardcast Titan, Mindslaver, Jar or Colossus. Jar makes some really strong turns, Mindslaver is randomly good, but definetely 1 thing that could be cut. Titan and Colossus are absolutely nessecary as kill conditions.

Thank you for the Feedback.

SB Spell Snare: These are for Dark Confidant, Hymn and Oath of Druids.

Chrome Mox / Mox Diamond: You were right, I rarely wanted to imprint something. Mox Diamond was better, but I cuttet both and replaced them with Strip Effects.

Brainstorm: Playing with so much acceleration is pretty new to me, but I know that Brainstorm/ Fetchland is wrong for this deck. I play Legacy quite successful so I know about the strenght of Brainstorm. But I wanted a deck that doesn't use time (blue mana) on library manipulation because it has so much artifact mana that you can go for real carddraw instead. Therefore Compulsive Research is better than Brainstorm here.

You were right, I cannot build enough pressure with these Faeries, so I changed the deck fundamentally. More heavy threats and Mana instead of those small creatures.

The suggestion of a bigger Trinket Mage engine was a good idea, too. I included Sensei Top to find answers, Cursed Scroll as an answer to Welder, Confidant and Negator, Aether Spellbomb for Colossus and a maindeck Crypt. In most cases I want to fetch a Mox Sapphire or a Sol Ring for more acceleration, but since all these cards are good on their own it is rarely a problem.

I'd like to run a 2nd Repeal and a full set of Wastes, but I am not sure what to cut and how to adjust the Manabase. With 2-3 Repeals I could play Mana Crypt again, which would be really good.

// Lands
    8  Island
    4  Seat of the Synod (they are great. They have synergy with Thirst, Research, Trinket Mage and they make Academy better)
    1  Tolarian Academy
    3  Ancient Tomb
    2 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine


// Creatures
    1  Darksteel Colossus
    1  Sundering Titan (Random Tinker target or hardcast)
    3  Trinket Mage

// Spells
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Force of Will
    1  Time Walk
    1  Ancestral Recall
    4  Mana Leak
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    1  Tinker
    4  Compulsive Research
    1  Repeal
    1  Tormod's Crypt
    1  Memory Jar
    1  Grim Monolith
    1  Chalice of the Void
    1  Mindslaver
    1  Sensei's Divining Top
    1  AEther Spellbomb
    1  Cursed Scroll

// Sideboard
SB: 2  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3  Hydroblast
SB: 3  Stifle
SB: 3  Energy Flux
SB: 3  Spell Snare
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

Explanation of the Choices see some posts later.


Decklist:

// Lands
    8  Island
    4  Seat of the Synod
    1  Tolarian Academy
    3  Ancient Tomb
    3  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine

// Creatures
    1  Darksteel Colossus
    1  Sundering Titan
    3  Trinket Mage
    1  Triskelion

// Spells
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Force of Will
    1  Time Walk
    1  Ancestral Recall
    4  Mana Leak
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    1  Tinker
    3  Compulsive Research
    3  Repeal
    1  Grim Monolith
    1  Sensei's Divining Top
    1  AEther Spellbomb
    1  Cursed Scroll
    1  Mana Crypt

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1  Chalice of the Void
SB: 3  Hydroblast
SB: 3  Stifle
SB: 3  Hurkly's Recall
SB: 3 Spell Snare