Not sure why I am John (mike) Rowe, as I have no idea who mike is. 

Was a please meeting all of you.  Had a great time at my first NorCal Vintage event.  Just as welcoming and fun as the SoCal scene!

Thanks for all the idea's guys.  I'll take a deeper look at the decks suggested, and come back here if I get stuck.

Now I just need a place to play in SoCal...

I know one place, but it's not that competitive, and it might be fun to not steam roll people.  (Took second place there with a Legacy Deck (TES) First place was the only one with a powered deck...)

Yeah, I know the price's of the basic stuff, I'm just wondering if there is sub-optimal replacements for them until i can get my hands on the real deal.  I already own force, and a few blue duals (w & r).

I'll take a look at Ichorid and MUD/Stax.  They seem to be good decks, and I just messed around with Dragon for a while, and hate watching myself lose game after game, to almost every card.

Thanks for the quick replies.

So I have been looking at decks, and was wondering the viability of the following, and how much running a fully powered (as in all the good stuff, not necessarily all 9) version would be.

Dragon - Looks fun, and i miss it from the original days of Legacy, but is it any good?

Manaless Ichorid - I already own everything but Bazzar, so i guess that's a start.  ;-P  How good is the deck, and is it worth playing?

Stax (w/ Welder) - I have not seen a list, but i remember the days of TriniStax.  Is stax still a viable deck?  What about some sort of Juggernaught, 7/10 deck?

Grim Long - OK, the thing that brought me to this format.  Assuming 10 proxies how much would this baby cost to pick up?  There is no real build it half way on this though, no?  I kinda have to just get it, and then learn one of the hardiest decks in Magic to play.  Being a long time TES player, it is right up my ally, but is it worth the cost, and play testing?

Thanks for all your help guys.  Maybe I'll just get sick of finding a deck, and come break your format!  (I wish ;-P)

Hey, I've been lurking around the site for some time now, and with 3 summer jobs, I think i might be able to finally jump into Vintage.

Being a LONG time Legacy player, I know a little about the older formats, but of course Vintage is a whole different animal.

I was hoping to get some advice on what the best deck to jump into the format would be?  I'm looking for something that i can build really fast and cheap, and then slowly add power/shops/drains/bazzars/goodies to it over time.

I currently already own Legacy Ichorid, but the deck runs kinda weird for me.  I dislike it's consistancy.  Maybe Manaless Ichorid runs smoother?

I'm kinda looking for some sort of aggro-control or combo-control.  I'm normally a combo player, but for my first deck, I don't see me playing things like Grim Long very well until i actually get out, and learn the format by playing it.

Thank in advance for any help you guys can give me.

Am i the only fool who still likes the turn 0 win?

I have been still running to an amazing effect the turn 0 win.  The only rpoblem is the combo takes up MUCH more room, but it's not creature hatable, and it win before they can play Mox/Chalice.

Because a moderator felt it nessary to kill healthy discussion, something i'm APPAULED by being a moderator myself...


There are only 2 Unique cards in magic.  Both (untill un-hinged dang Enter the Dungeon) were quoted in the rules.

Mindslaver and Shahrazad.

Now using Wizards logic, Mindslaver does something that is AGAINST magic.  It should be TWO players playing magic, not One.  yet we don't see Mindslaver getting the Axe.  How come?  Is Wizards falling off the ladder.

I agree, i amd UTTERLY dissipointed with how Wizards has been treating Legacy and Vintage as a whole.  I am encouraging everyone here to write to Wizards and ask that they stop messing around.  These are player formats.  We do all the work, finding combo's and "breaking" cards and wizards thinks they can just play God.

They can't they have no idea what Eternal Magic is like, they are Type 2 Slaves, and don't care about us.  They say they do, and they do ONLY enough to keep us happy, but i say that ends now.

anyone know any souther california (LA area) tourny places?

The problem with the Death Mask is that if new abilities are made, aftre the card is "printed" then it can't gain thoses abilities.

I am going to be starting a online tourny over the next few weeks.  If you are intrested go to www.teamgix.vf11.com and sign up, (or post here)

The way it will work is the program will be Web Wizard a java application (so mac users can join us).

Each round will be 3 games, blah, blah, blah, sideboards games 2 & 3 blah, blah, blah.


Decklists -sideboard's will be POSTED on the site (although names will NOT be attached).  Then sideboards will be posted in a locked thread so nobody may view them.  This means that people will be able to see what decks are being played, but not who is playing.

Decklists are due October 15th, (non will be posted untill all are in) and Sideboards will be due October 20th.  (never publically posted.)

There will be one round a week, untill we cut to a top 8.

At that point we will have a top 8, and the winner will be announced.


I'm looking for 15-20 players, but the more we can get the better.

the of your choice part correct is broken, i made it to counter act abilities conflicting, but it would be too broken, the user would just have to not be stupid and take a shadow and defender creature.

I have had an idea for this card for a long time.  Here it is.

Card Name - I like "Urza's Tempest" but w/e

Cost - 3UB

Creature - Legend Shapeshifter

Rules Text - When CARD NAME comes into play you may remove any number of creatures you control from the game.

CARD NAME's power is equal to the combined power of the removed cards.

CARD NAME's toughness is equal to the combined toughness of the removed cards.

CARD NAME gains all abilities of your choice of the removed cards.

P/T - */*


The idea being you could go for the Akroma, Darksteel C, and get an amazing creature, 17/17 darksteel, trampling, god.

or take all your wimps and make a decent creature.

I couldn't post anywhere else and the rules said to post here to get myself started so...