I don't know if anyones gone this route yet, but I 've had a few thoughts about a Portal deck that would just power out Portal as soon as possible, then takes it from there.  I'm nowhere near certain this is a good direction to travel in, but think it's worth having other people fire back some thoughts about.

First off, I think this idea is possible only with the "Fake" draw spells, such as Intuition, Demonic Tutor, and Impulse.  Other ones, like Future Sight, Gifts Ungiven(I understand the mana cost for these two is rather prohibitive for this deck), Sleight of Hand, Flash of Insight, or Index may be worth looking at. Being able to play Portal NOW, and then find those Squees, Welders, or win conditions shortly afterward seems very good.

With this direction, you first have to find the Portal. You would really want this in the opening hand, so I think a high Portal count and additional methods of getting it are a total must.  Demonic, Vampiric, Mystical, and Tinker can fit the bill nicely.

As for Bazaar being a primary(or even secondary) search method, I don't think it could work.  If you're trying to power out a Portal in the earliest turns of the game, you almost always won't be able to afford that land drop on something that won't produce mana.  On top of that, once you do get the Portal in, Bazaar is total shit without silly tricks aimed at getting the portal in and out of play.  Granted, dropping Portal into the grave and welding it in is some good, but it takes a turn for Welder to stop picking his nose and get to work, then playing Bazaar and dropping Portal into the grave. Plus, focusing the deck on those synergies opens you up to a TON of sideboarded hate, of which I'm not going to bother naming off.  Bazaar's quick digging capabilities and synergy with both Welder & Squee may still be good in the deck, but I think it is the bad synergy between Portal and Bazaar that outweighs it.

Lowering the reliance on Welder(I wouldn't suggest running a list with Welders totally absent) means we need a really good way to push through the Portal.  Abusing fast manas in a combo-style manner seems like the best approach.  Probably Workshop, the 0-mana artifact gang, Sol Ring, Mana Vault.  I think a strong helping of the artifact acceleration is necessary, since the Portal comes out hard and fast, there will be a few EOT Portal triggers that you can't ditch a Squee for, and as such need something to sac or discard.

 Duress as a four-of seems to be a really solid choice, as whatever is in their opening hand( +/-3 or so) *should* be the only cards they see all game, so being able to pluck out one of the few relevant cards they may have within their reach is a really strong ability.

I can't provide a decklist or anything, because I really don't know where this deck would have to go to be good.  I was just throwing out an idea I've had regarding what the deck could do, in the hopes that someone may get some benefit out of it.

EDIT: hit the back button on the browser, and it double-posted. my bad.

You know I'll at least be there, if not able to play.  C'mon folks, bring some friends down and help out our store.  Free pizza, halo 2, and insane amounts of good times(just stay away from the Hawaiian Punch)

 

Not to nitpick, but the physical copies of Mana Drain available are far greater than either Bazaar or Workshop, due to the Italian copies.  On the other hand, I seem to believe that more people are working on getting their set of Drains than those people getting Bazaar and Workshop, but maybe that's because I live in New England   .

I don't see Mana Drain as so broken that it warrants restriction.  I honestly don't think heavy-control decks could recover from its loss, and to keep it viable, it needs to stay.

Mishra's Workshop *could* be restricted... I believe that the other two semi-similar cards available(City of Traitors, Ancient Tomb) may prove to be strong enough to keep it at least a viable choice, just setting the clock back a bit.

Bazaar of Baghdad does more totally broken things, but decks packing it really aren't everywhere, so I'd say leave it until stronger information is available.  The restriction of this, also, would pretty much neuter the decks that require it (such as Dragon and Madness). There simply isn't a card available that can reasonably replace its effect, and as such we'd most likely drop these decks entirely to the bottom brackets.

Dark Ritual is a reasonable thing to restrict.  Combo's kill would most likely be pushed back a turn or two, but would still be totally possible to achieve.


All in all, if any of these four cards seems to appear in more top 8s after restricting one or more of the others, I'd look back at the whole of them again, and try and decide if they all need to be there to balance the others out.  Who's to say that any one of them could not be just too powerful in a field without the other three? There's a lot of understanding to do, but the most accurate results can only really be found after seeing relevant top 8s after such kinds of restrictions occur. .

This tourney is this coming Saturday, folks.  Anyone else attending?  I'll be there for trade and stuff, but unfortunately, unless a miracle occurs, I get out of work just about way too late to get there in time for round one.  Hope to see a large turnout this month.


xaos (the artist commonly known as xaosDrunk =[  )

Moved(read: cut and pasted) this for the Hamburgular, another Cape store regular-

This tournament will be a good time, that much is guaranteed. The prize is based on attendance, as there were a few mox tournies that the store lost some good money on, but still great nonetheless. We get 20 players competing at the very least, often plenty more, so it is your average sized Mox tournament, and with a prize to match(that'd be $400+. In stock right now is the full compliment of power, moxen being around 325 each, as well as Drains, workshops, and other oldies & goodies. Well, enough of this babble, on to what you want to hear, the tournament info:

Format and Entry Fee: T1, five proxy, 20$ entry fee, $1 per extra proxy.  As has been the case before, i'm pretty sure printed proxies are legal, as long as they can be distinguished easily enough.

Prize Structure(based on ~50 people attending):
First Place: $500 cash
Second Place: $250 cash
Third Place: $75
Fourth Place: $75
Fifth Place: TBA
Sixth Place: TBA
Seventh Place: TBA
Eighth Place: TBA

Where: The Gathering on Cape Cod, centerville, Bell Tower Mall

When: October 30th (saturday)

Door Prizes! Most likely an All Hallows Eve included!

Free Pizza! Dominoes delivery! Atleast two slices each(often your fill of slices)!

Comfy Chairs! 'Nuff Said!

Any information needed, directions etc you can PM me or The Hamburgler, or go to http://www.Capegames.com

Meet TMD members and support our store. If we get a legit amount of people, I’m positive I can convince the store owner to hold much more sufficient prize structures, help me and yourselves out. Thanks, please give a mana drainer some support, and represent…

Bitches.
- xaos / The Hamburgler


Edits:  Im fairly sure you should get there around 10am, but I'll check up on that to be sure.

Just got TO status the other day, so I'm currently retyping it, and shall post it in the appropriate thread.

To avoid posting multiple copies of the same post, only hit Submit once. -DrS[/color]

OK, I don't think anyone's mentioned this, but the fact that this deck often relies on Null Rod to win against Slaver/etc game one is key.  Dropping a Lotus first turn, to resolve Rod & whatever is meaningless when they drop Welder, and give you a Lotus in place of that Rod.  I've tested both with and without Lotus/Sapphire/Ruby, and I must personally say the deck is the most sound without any artifact acceleration.  What are the percentages of getting Lotus/Moxen first turn?  What are the percentages that you've already played 1 of 3(ish) Null Rod by the time you draw it/them?  I don't think its worth the redundancy of this deck to make it semi-explode once in a while turn 1-3.

what artifacts are you so afraid of?  It's only Mirrodin block that has common artifacts, and I think the unc/rare artifacts are the ones really to be worried about, save skullclamp, which might be really damn good

I'm not putting much time into thinking about this deck, but I'd say the addition of Null Rods and Force of Will would greatly improve your game.

Off topic yes, but I must mention I've been playing gay/r almost exclusively for around six or seven months-  playtesting against all the top tier decks.  Maybe I didn't make that clear enough in the thread, but either way, I didn't really see the humor in it.  I also wouldn't think anyone else would have picked up on the 'joke'.

I noticed you running 2x mox and a Lotus.  While it may feel 'budget' to cut them, I personally don't think they add enough to the deck.  Have you ever had a Null Rod welded out because you ditched a Sapphire from yer full hand end of turn?  That is the suck- cards that are often useless, but eat precious card space in your hand(they could very well be running Rack and Ruin too-  Don't give them two good targets on your side).   To replace them, I'd up your Island count, as that's pretty low when you stop to think how hosed you could get against Blood Moon. Either way, I think the build is pretty solid.



OK, on to your discussion questions-

Gay/r vs Dragon:  Between Force of Will, Daze, and Stifle you should have the game in the bag.  Good sideboard options include Stifle(mine are all boarded) and Seal of Removal

Gay/r vs Mask variants:  I've unfortunately only been able to play against Kowal and his Ninja Mask build once, and as such I don't think I can really comment too well-  I made some bad play mistakes in the match, and lost pretty bad.  Good sideboard cards to include are Seal of Removal, Maze of Ith, among others.

Gay/r vs Draw7: I'm afraid I haven't even seen anyone play this deck, and really don't know how it would swing.  Though, my educated guess would lead me to believe with 6-8 0cc counters in the deck, and some amount of Stifle for the tendrils- you should be all set.  This deck began it's goodness in the Combo days of 6 months ago, I don't think it should have much problem here, either.

Bolt over Fire/Ice:  Fire/Ice wins this one.  I could only see running LB over it in an aggro driven environment, and you're probably not choosing the right deck for the meta in that case.  Fire/Ice is never dead- It's all been said before, but it can singlehandedly turn off an opponent's Mana Drain EOT, Fry two weenies at once, Kill the opponent, Stall attackers, or if all that fails, just 'cycle' it away anyway-  It's the card that leaves you with plenty of options.

Regarding the Thief/Voidmage slot, I suggest doing some playtesting with Serendib Efreet.  Personally, I think he's quite the man for the slot.

One thing I think should be mentioned is that Engineered Plague looks for creature types.  Not only would it kill welders, but it also gets the rest of the 1-toughness goblin world at the same time.  Against decks such as FCG and Fish its quite potent; I could see this card be a nightmare.



"I name the creature type 'Elf'.  Oops, did I just Win?"  Though on second thought, wouldnt you already have anyway?

In response to the moving of this thread to the Newbie forums, the recent shit-eating I've had to put up with in the thread, and generally just being aggrivated with the people with nothing decent to say, I have given up on this thread.  I tried to do something to benefit the deck, as it could use more discussion, but enough people have now posted shit like "Don't change it!  Innovation kills decks!", so screw it.  You folk don't deserve my criticism anymore.


Moderators, please close this thread.

Maybe, but I feel the deck would stand to get better with some constructive criticism.  This doesn't exactly cut it.


That's just a stupid reason to leave a decklist alone.  This a metagame deck, and as such it requires continuous changes to stay competitive.


Regarding the move from Open t1 to the Newbie forum, I'd really like this post moved back-  I would really like to keep the posts as good as possible, and I'm sure the moderators know that constructive posts are almost as hard here in this forum, as they are in the Sui forum.  Please, help me improve the quality of the readers and posters.

You dont want my opinion?  Done.

i know this deck doesn't run white, but I must say that Funeral Pyre is awesome tech against those decks that choose to not play creatures, and it also stops a bunch of other broken shit from happening too...  sorry its a little off topic, but this is the only oath thread ive seen in ages.

I don't think this is a good direction to be taking Gay decks...  yes, Flying Men have a lower CMC, but Cloud(if it resolves) is free.  Don't forget the totally STUPID things that get done with Library of Alexandria.  The Gay deck needs their tempo early and unrelenting, and the Faeries are there to keep kicking it up a notch.

combo decks do not need another draw seven. sure, they dont play it now, but what if they could add four?  i think they'd adapt to it- fastbond comes to mind.  Desire for 3 or 4 would be even more dangerous.  I just dont think giving type one more massive draw will encourage a broader metagame, once the unrestrictions take place.

Fork I've wanted to see unrestricted for a long time.  Maybe I just like the flavor of the card too much-  "Hey, whatever you're doing over there looks pretty cool,  I'll try it too!"  Monored needs some more good reactive spells-  this one's broken, but at double-R its difficult to splash for, and you can't always know what it's going to end up being.  I think this would give some of the budget sligh players more enjoyment out of their decks, being able to Recall once in a while will help them continue to play t1


  I'd say Geyser is OK for an unban, as a sorcery, but spiral and stroke shouldnt. Fork gets the go as well

Edit: oh yeah, almost forgot:  Unrestricting LoA would be one of the dumbest things wizards could do.  I'd believe, that with 4 libraries, everyone would have to play some form of counter-control, 4 LoA, 5 strips, to be able to compete.  A must-have 9 cards that all produce colorless mana would just make decks far from fun.

You just barely missed the point.  It is very true that three lands tap to activate the Conclave(and two for the Factory). Between those and your strip base, when was the last time you had an EXTRA 3 mana available during the attack step?  Even if I'm not holding mana back for Instants during their turn, I always find I want even more, not being able to activate another Conclave or two already on the board.

Removal of good information is not fun, nor productive.

Given up on trying to focus this thread.  The posts here belong in the Sui Black forum.

Removed.

Removed.

You care not about my opinions, so Removed they Are.

It's Chet, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that to someone tonight   Didn't really expect to top 8 tonight, hell, I thought I wasn't going to be playing this morning.  All in all, I played a lot of drawn out games, and edged in some wins.  Maybe Gay/r will get some respect now =]

Edit: oh yeah, and I'm broke.  Where the hell else are you going to get a free pizza all to yourself at 10:30?

Removed.  You people obviously don't want a discussion about innovating new ideas.

Just got back from a 4th place finish at the local mox tourney, Gay Red was golden all day long.  Now that's out of the way, I'm going to work on getting this primer posted.



Edit:  I'm afraid I don't have any good written notes from today's matches, as I didn't intend on playing today.

I can post some good info about Gay Red. I've been playing it for a couple months now and I've decided it doesn't have really any auto-loss matchups, and the experienced pilot can take this deck and win very often.  I have some decent strategies piled up, and think I've had enough testing with the deck to post with confidence that my head isn't totally up my own ass.

Like I said, give me until Sunday, and I'll have some good matchup info for Gay Red.  Anyone else who wants to contribute in the meantime, please do so.  I'd like to see a continuing discussion on this decktype.

Edit:   One thing I seemingly will never take away from this deck is the fact that, despite the lack of them, the deck is always called Fish.

i think you missed blue's "actual" LD spell- Stifle.  it stops fetches, ruins wastes/strips...  being able to say "No" to an opponent dropping a fetch and attempting to remove their color screw is just goodness.

EDIT: ok, so stifle is not in Masques block.  In the future, I plan on actually reading the entirety of the first post before sticking my head up my ass.